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Best Hot Hatch - SVT, Civic Si, GTI, RSX, Mini, Beetle...

revdrluvrevdrluv Posts: 417
edited April 2014 in Acura
Their are alot of new hatches out that are performance oriented. Just thought I would start something to compare them all. What is the best new hot hatch? Focus SVT, GTI 1.8t, GTI VR6, Mini Cooper S, Civic Si?

I know celicas, integras and the new RSX are hatches but they are more akin to sports coupes IMO.

BMW has a new compact hatch coming out and it is supposed to be better than the last.

I think hatches are very cool but I wish we had more interesting ones like those found in Europe and the UK
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Comments

  • revdrluvrevdrluv Posts: 417
    Here is a question, has anyone heard anything on another new focus (besides the SVT) that is supposed to have awd, turbo (like the rally car) and 230hp to be sold in the US? I think I read something about in a UK mag.
  • silver_bulletsilver_bullet Posts: 1,339
    There is a Focus RS in Europe right now, and the car you describe is the upcoming Cosworth Focus. Neither car will come to the U.S. - I think you can be pretty sure of that. Why? You can thank our products liability lawyers and their friends in the insurance industry for one... and Ford isn't likely to offer U.S. consumers a hatchback that will stomp a Mustang and cannibalize sales from that creaking dinosaur.
  • silver_bulletsilver_bullet Posts: 1,339
    This topic is going to be a problem as well... who says the Matrix is a "hatchback"? Four doors and a tailgate sounds more like a station wagon to me - horrors! You'll have to open the floodgates and include the upcoming Mazda Protege 5 door, and the PT Cruiser, and the hilarious Mercedes "sport coupe" wannabe hatchback, and... you get the idea.
  • bill_1bill_1 Posts: 97
    But 4 doors and a hatch can also be a hatchback. It is kind of hard to draw a hard fast line between a 5 door hatchback and a station wagon, but I think the real determining factor would be that a wagon is 1. as long as a sedan and 2. has a mostly squared off back. Thus the Matrix is a wagon because it is probably as long as a sedan on that platform would have been and it has a squared off back.. The Golf 5 door is shorter than the Jetta hence it is a hatch... etc.
  • revdrluvrevdrluv Posts: 417
    I think the real difference is that a wagon has a trunk extension past the back tires built in to a covered area and a 5 door hatch has the rear door coming right up behind the wheels.

    Yeah, with the mustang selling so good why would they stop now right? Their is a new mustang set to come out built on the lincoln LS platform , maybe if they made it big enough it they wouldn't compete as much. Ah who am i kidding, No one in the states would pay 25-27k for a focus anyway (well if it was good I might).

    What is the deal with product liability lawers anyway? So the industry gets in trouble if it builds a really fast inexpensive car? The new WRX has about the same hp as the cosworth focus and they are both AWD what is the difference?
  • pocahontaspocahontas Posts: 802
    Edmunds.com's First Drive of the 2002 Mini Cooper is now available. Here's a direct link.


    Thanks for your comments. ;-)


    Pocahontas
    Host
    Hatchbacks / Station Wagons Message Boards

  • njbongonjbongo Posts: 66
    Speaking of the Matrix..anyone notice that the Pontiac VIBE GT looks like its evil twin...well, it is. It's built on the Matrix platform and apparently, Toyota is going to give Pontiac the V6 from the current Celica GT-S.

    I'm sure Ponitiac will find a way to crapify it ! (Is that a word?) But it's interesting that Toyota is NOT using the same V6 in theirs. That leads me to believe that they are probably developing a BETTER engine for the Celica and Matrix. After all, pay MORE for the MATRIX unless it's BETTER than the Vibe.

    just a thought....it's not very surprising to see this happen, since GM's Chevy Prizm is really a reworked Corolla....and Pontiac is just another useless GM company. (Yes, I do hate GM...sorry if I offend anyone). On the other hand I love Toyota, maybe they can actually teach GM to make good cars someday, instead of just giving them all of their designs !!!

    later
  • njbongonjbongo Posts: 66
    Oh, yeah....I own a 2001 Focus ZX3...my honest opinion is that the SVT Focus is going to toast them all...especially the new Civc SI. My regular stock ZX3 toasts the regualr Civic's all the time...and the Ford SVT team like to win !!!
  • revdrluvrevdrluv Posts: 417
    V6 in celica GT-S? I believe its a four.

    What is the svt focus going to weigh in at, anybody know? also how much is it supposed to cost?

    The new GTI GLS is supposed to get an hp increase to 170 hp. Its more expensive but I drove the current one with the 1.8t engine and it was pretty quick.

    This could get interesting. All the numbers seem to be very close on these new models.
  • badtoybadtoy Posts: 368
    As 'rev' noted, the GT-S is a DOHC four cylinder with VVTi and either 6-speed manual or four-speed e-shift transmission. It produces 180 hp. The Matirx and Vibe share the same platform, and only the styling is different.

    I like both, although I prefer the more carlike styling of the Matrix. the Vibe should do very well, and there is no way for Pontiac to mess it up -- they will be built at the plant they share with Toyota in California.

    Toyota and GM have had a good working relationship for years, and will continue to for some time to come. They're sharing technology in other ways, including using the GM OnStar system at Lexus. They are also working together on alternate fuel technologies.
  • njbongonjbongo Posts: 66
    Sorry, what I meant to say is the V6 in the Japanese Version of the Celica GT-S...it's also the same one in the Lexus IS300. (On a side note, the Japanese Toyota model called the Alteza IS the IS300's twin, only with a 160HP Four (probably the US Celica's engine). Sometimes things don't make it from my brain to the keyboard. HOWEVER...they are supposed to put a V6 in the US GT-S by 2003, but it will be a different (and probably better) V6 than the above one. I'm going by what I was told at the NY auto show...the VIBE GT they had there was a V6...but still marked 'prototype'...the Matrix also had a V6 (as 'optional')...

    I was being a little sarcastic about GM crappifying it....I know the Corolla and Prizm come outof the same plant, HOWEVER..if you drive both of them within a short time..you can definetly feel a difference. The Corolla feels way more refined than the Prizm, and more quiet....no it's not in my head, many people have said this.

    The Corolla probably has some extra 'sound deadening' and some other features that make it better. Also, if you compare the interiors of the two...they are a little different.

    I expect the same with the Vibe and the Matrix...I'm sure the Matrix will 'feel' better.
  • badtoybadtoy Posts: 368
    'Cause that's what I'm buying!

    I've had three Pontiacs, though, and loved them too -- a '68 Firebird 350, '69 Grand Prix SJ and '89 Firebird 350. Great road cars, and I adored the styling in all three.
  • revdrluvrevdrluv Posts: 417
    Your getting a matrix huh? What is going to happen to the turbo rolla?

    njbongo... Where have you seen the japanese V6 celica?

    I think the real competition here is between the SVT focus, the civic si and the new GTI 1.8t. The GTI has the comfort and interior design the civic has the build quality and the ford has the price. I want to know how much each of these are going to weigh?
  • majorthomechomajorthomecho Posts: 1,331
    Isn't this a little premature to be talking about vehicles that [for the most part] are not even on sale [here] yet?

    We only think they are going to be "hot."

    Personally, I think the pictures I have seen of the Matrix and the Vibe show that the Matrix is the one suffering from "Aztek" disease and not very "hot". Surprising considering that Matrix is the Toyota offering and Vibe is the GM offering.

    Then again, maybe I shouldn't be surprised. Toyota did give us the Echo, after all. ; )
  • 88delta8888delta88 Posts: 1
    Doesn't the IS300 have a straight 6 and not a V6? Or is that also a Japan only deal? I, too would like to know where you saw this V6 GT-S, sounds very interesting.
  • zirconzircon Posts: 62
    Man, someone driving a Ford should not be criticizing gm - they both suck big time. Check you tires and watch CNN for today's recall before you head out. No wonder these guys are losing their market.

    Vibe is a better looking car than matrix which looks like it has been 'pontiaced'. On the other hand, it appears they are going to play games with the engine/drivetrain choices. Don't get hopes up too high.
  • njbongonjbongo Posts: 66
    I read it at http://www.toyota.co.jp...look under concepts section. Also, if you search through the US Sites 'news', it mentions the V6 going on sale in JP for 2002.


    Well, I looked at the Lexus website, and it does say inline six....I was slo going by what the Toyota guy at the NY Auto show was saying, maybe he was confused. You Alteza (IS300) at the above site.


    Either way, regardless of what engines the final versions of the Vibe and Matrix have...they are still the same car with slightly different 'faces'.


    And zircon.....I'll have to disagree with you on a few things. First off, Ford may not be the best carmaker of all time, but out of the American companies...I'll tke my chances with them when compared to Chrysler or GM. Secondly, have you ever actually read anything about the Firestone tire recall? It doesn't affect CARS, unless of course you have mounted Wilderness AT Tires on your car. Have you? And also, that is more Firestone's fault than Ford's and Ford has also taken a loss to ensure that ALL of those tires are placed.


    I'm curious though, while you trashing Ford, what are you driving?

  • revdrluvrevdrluv Posts: 417
    Actually firestone is blaming ford now from what I last heard. Something like they asked firestone to build tires to a certain spec level even though it was not good enough to handle the weight of their suv's. Why they would do that I don't know. I am not sure I believe it since firestone has been guilty of this same problem in the past I think more than once. Anyway firestone is now going to seperate themselves from ford so you don't have to worry about getting a ford with firestones for much longer.
  • badtoybadtoy Posts: 368
    I'm selling the Rolla to reduce my debt-to-income ratio (I'm refinancing my house). Toysport is planning to buy it off of me to keep it as their project car. We'll see what happens.

    I thought about taking the turbo off and putting it on the Matrix, but I'll probably just put a high-boost system on it when the time comes. I think it's the perfect car for my needs right now.
  • pocahontaspocahontas Posts: 802
    image



    Edmunds.com's First Look of the 2002 Honda Civic Si is now available. Here's the full story: 2002 Honda Civic Si, Return of the Great Cheap Date, by By Warren Clarke. What do you think?


    Also, for more discussion on the 2002 Honda Civic Si, feel free to join us in our ongoing Honda Civic Si discussion on the Hatchbacks Message Board. Happy Motoring!


    Pocahontas

    Host

    Hatchbacks / Station Wagons / Women's Auto Center Boards

  • badtoybadtoy Posts: 368
    What a cool-looking car....!!!
  • dasteph94dasteph94 Posts: 20
    Oh no! It looks like a Honda Coupe forced to mate with a FOCUS!!!
  • badtoybadtoy Posts: 368
    Once again -- ain't no accountin' fer taste, but I love it AND the Focus.
  • maniar98maniar98 Posts: 2
    For the love of god, please Ford or Subaru make the above mentioned models available in the U.S.

    I want American big cars like the Mustang Cobra to eat my dust, with me in the P1.


    http://www.motorsportonline.co.uk /bringlite/news/focus/rs001.htm


    http://www.motorsportonline.co.uk /bringlite/news/ImprezaWRX/index.htm

  • four pics of CTR

    http://www.vtec.net/news/items/773.html

    Looks much better than RSX-S, will American Honda import it?

    CX
  • revkarevka Posts: 1,750
    "We should clarify that while the title of this test is 'Sport Coupe', most of the vehicles are actually hatchback designs."

    Here's the full story from Edmund's Reviews section: 2001-2002 Sport Coupe Comparison Test. What do you think? ;-)

    Revka
    Host
    Hatchbacks / Station Wagons / Women's Auto Center Boards
  • only1harryonly1harry NYPosts: 1,140
    The '02 Si doesn't look bad but I like this one a lot better:

    image

    the '02 RSX Type-R!
    '99 Integra GSR
    '06 Civic LX coupe
    '11 BMW 335i coupe xDrive
    '13 Honda Accord sedan (wife's car)
  • chem123chem123 Posts: 272
    I thought you said EK hatches were your favorite hatchbacks...that's why I bought one ;)
  • only1harryonly1harry NYPosts: 1,140
    as far as Civics go :)
    But when you 're talkign non-Civics, nothing comes close to the Type-R's fun-to-drive factor..

    BTW, why do they call g6 Civics EK? I thought the E stood for 5th gen.. (I 've been away from H-T & H/A for a while, can't you tell?)
    '99 Integra GSR
    '06 Civic LX coupe
    '11 BMW 335i coupe xDrive
    '13 Honda Accord sedan (wife's car)
  • chem123chem123 Posts: 272
    EG (92-95)
    EK (96-00)

    Harry, when is the RSX-R supposed to come out anyway?
  • shov6shov6 Posts: 177
    Well at least two of the top auto magazines have put forward THEIR answer for the best of the hot hatches, and the answer is...

    The Ford Focus SVT.

    Car and Driver put the SVT first when comparing it to the GTI and the Civic Si, and put the car on its' Top Ten list. Again.

    Automobile Magazine compared the same cars as above, and threw in the MP3 and the Sentra SE-R Spec V, and again the SVT came out on top. The Focus also has the distinction of having been on their All-Stars list for both the regular Focus AND the SVT model individually.

    Perhaps this helps.

    -SHOV6
  • revkarevka Posts: 1,750
    Here's a direct link to Edmunds' Spin Around Town: 2002 Acura RSX, by Phillip Reed.

    image

    Thanks for your comments. Happy Motoring.

    Revka
    Host
    Hatchbacks & Station Wagons Boards
  • revkarevka Posts: 1,750
    "The V6 and transmission combination gives the Tiburon a real advantage over other more expensive sport coupes like the Acura RSX (no V6), Toyota Celica (no V6) and Mitsubishi Eclipse (no six-speed)."

    Read the full story here: First Drive: 2003 Hyundai Tiburon, John Pearley Huffman. And let us know what you think.

    Also, for more discussion on the Hyundai Tiburon (both 2003 and previous generation models), join us in 2003 Hyundai Tiburon - What do you think? and Hyundai Tiburon, Owner Experiences & News. Thanks for your participation.

    Revka
    Host
    Hatchbacks & Station Wagons Boards
  • http://www.vwvortex.com/features/12_01/12_28/index.shtml


    Now this is a "hot" hatch. Should be coming to the US as the Driver's Edition with only slight changes.

  • that civic looks like a mini van. But if it is that fast I could learn to love it.
  • revdrluvrevdrluv Posts: 417
    I want to see hyundai come out with an AWD WRC inspired version of the accent hatch. This would be perfect to capitalize on their WRC investment and with rally products gaining popularity here in the US it could be a good move to sell here to jump in this niche before everyone else.

    I am not sure how they would position it with the tiburon. I think they would have to sell a warm version right under the base tiburon and a mad hardcore spec model in the 23-25k range. This would be a full on AWD turbo charged beast. They would have to sell the mad version in really small numbers, so as not to eat away at tiburon sales, since they probably wouldn't make money on this model anyway. The warm version would be what most people got and it would need to be comparable in performance to the civic si and focus svt for less money. The mad version is just to up the brand name and for bragging rights. Hyundai needs to focus on young people now so they can have a bright future.
  • 8u6hfd8u6hfd Posts: 1,391
    Celica GT-S
    Top motor in both US & Japan is the 2ZZ-GE, with is a DOHC 1.8L with VVTL-i (L for lift control). The Japanese version gets more power from using higher octane gas (the ECU is recalibrated for the US)

    Altezza/IS300
    The 160 bhp motor in the Altezza (Japan and Europe IS200) is a 1G-FE 2.0L straight-6 with VVT-i (I believe it's VVT-i). The Altezza in Japan (at one time called the AS200) has a 210 (6-speed manual) or 200 (automatic) bhp 2.0L 3S-GE Dual VVT-i motor. With the introduction of the SportCross this year, the 2JZ-GE (IS300) motor has been added. The 2JZ-GE motor was an US exclusive, until 2002.

    Vibe/Matrix
    The Vibe GT at the autoshows had the 2ZZ-GE motor, not a V6. Ditto for the Matrix XRS
  • toyotas1toyotas1 Posts: 134
    the SVT against the Si/GTI/SpecV and whupped 'em. I used to sell 'em, so I wasn't surprised. It is the BEST value in this market. If it wasn't so ugly...... I like the RSX better, but with the necessary add-ons it's $27k!!!!
  • revdrluvrevdrluv Posts: 417
    I want to see a Focus Cosworth brought to the states after we find out if the EVO 7 and WRX STi will be popular. I think SCCA pro-rally might have gained a bigger audience by then and ford should play up on the AWD rally car niche and bring this beast here as an entry in to the sport and as a consumer car. Keep it in the 23-25k range, about the same as the regular WRX.
  • seminole_kevseminole_kev Posts: 1,722
    hasn't the Cosworth Focus been pushed back to 2004?
  • revdrluvrevdrluv Posts: 417
    Has ford actually made a stated commitment to selling this car in the US?
  • revkarevka Posts: 1,750
    I just linked some new tools and resources to the Helpful links on the left side of the page. Happy motoring!

    Revka
    Host
    Hatchbacks & Station Wagons Boards
  • seminole_kevseminole_kev Posts: 1,722
    no I don't believe so. My hope is that Mitsubishi brings the Evo VII over here and it sells well. Hopefully that would at least entice Ford to sell the Cosworth Focus here. 280HP and AWD would be nice for sure.
  • mbeards2mbeards2 Posts: 4
    I was ready to buy an SVT focus, Nissan se-r spec v, civic si, VW gti, Celica gt-s, subaru impreza or Hyundai Tiburon. I liked the Acura RSX-s and WRX but they were too expensive.
    I read car and drivers hot hatch review as well as motor trends comparision. I also read a lot online and looked at each car.My thoughts .......
    SVT Focus= very limited production, race car handling, nice looks, average 0-60,avg resale,dealer won't budge on price
    Hyundai= great looks, V6 power only average HP, low price, great warranty,low resale value
    Spec V= 7.22 0-60mph, big 4 banger with some harshness, limited production, dealer won't budge much,handles close to the focus svt
    civic SI= silky motor, silky shifter, reliable, avg handling, a little slow 0-60 7.8,dealer won't budge much,high resale
    celica GT-s= quick 6.9sec 0-60,nimble with great handling and the best brakes,high resale and reliability, notchy shifter and no torque so you must constantly row the 6 speed and run the motor over 6000rpm
    subaru impreza= 7.8sec 0-60,handling below avg,a great value for a loaded 4wd sporty car,overall the lack of punch and the poor handling turned me away.
    Then I bought the VW GTI 1.8T 180 HP= the muscle car hatch of the group 0-60 6.5, silky smooth 1.8 20v turbo motor voted on wards 10 best engines again,avg handling, high resale,interior quality rivals expensive cars,safe car with yes...6 airbags,4/50k warranty, dealer willing to haggle($1200 off msrp and 4.9% 5 year financing thru VW)
    The VW is the best equiped it even has ABS,traction control and 6 air bags standard. Mileage is rated the highest 24/31 even though this is the hottest motor of them all. It is easy to bump HP to over 200 with a simple $400 chip that boost the turbo PSI. When you buy a VW you are getting an Audi sophisticated motor and Audi like interior on a $20,000 car. Each car has its highlights but the GTI has more in my opinion:
    *fastest pocket rocket *safest *best engine *best interior *best mileage *most equipment *easy to hop up
  • muffin_manmuffin_man Posts: 865
    Isn't the GT-S pretty much in the same price range as the RSX?

    I'm very fond of the new 1.8T, so I think you made a great pick, please post if you make any modifications to your suspension.
  • mbeards2mbeards2 Posts: 4
    I pick up my indigo blue GTI in a few days. MSRP was $20950, I paid $19,750:
    base model with sunroof, monsoon audio and cold weather package. Once I test drove one and felt the silky smooth power rush with the high quality interior, I was drooling. Even though the upcoming VR6 motor option will have 201 hp, I think the 1.8T is just as fast due to lower weight,plus its cheaper,has better mileage and is easy to hop up. Buy a $400 chip to get 200+HP and you have a potent fast and furious hatchback! The handling is average among the group but there are many hopups available. For 2002 VW dropped the price a little, added 16" wheels and CD, 2 more air bags, a better warranty and best of all 30 more horses! VW March 4.9% financing saves hundreds too. Consider this, a normal 7% rate would cost me $20 more per month which adds up to $1200 more for the car!(60months X 20 per month)
    The Acura RSX-s is hard to haggle the price down, so I think you end up paying $23,650. On carsdirect.com the loaded celica is $2000 cheaper at $21,688.
  • muffin_manmuffin_man Posts: 865
    I'm not sure what the appeal of the VR6 is going to be with only 21 more horsepower. The last GTI VR6 ran $4,000+ over the 1.8T.
  • badtoybadtoy Posts: 368
    I just noticed that the Celica GT-S is missing from this comparison. Any particular reason?
  • muffin_manmuffin_man Posts: 865
    mbeards mentioned the GT-S, or do you mean the discussion title?
  • badtoybadtoy Posts: 368
    I must confess I haven't read every post since the beginning, so I guess I missed that one.
This discussion has been closed.