TIMING BELTS - How long did you go before changing?
The recommendation to change timing belts at 60,000 miles has been around for decades.
Service advisers have been know to quote it in their sleep!
Certainly belts of the 90's last longer than the old-timey belts of the 60's and 70's....?
What's your story?
Service advisers have been know to quote it in their sleep!
Certainly belts of the 90's last longer than the old-timey belts of the 60's and 70's....?
What's your story?
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I changed the first belt at 57K miles, the next at 122K. That belt broke at 161K miles (only 39K miles and about 3 years after installation). Inconvenient, yes, and also totally unexpected.
Luckily, it happened in a decent neighborhood in Baltimore where I was able to find a phone easily and have it towed to a Volvo dealer.
The 3rd belt (to replace the one that snapped) was installed in 1990, and shortly afterward the Volvo was demoted from its primary status as family vehicle and turned into a commuter. I finally elected to have the belt replaced a month or so ago at 232K miles. That is, it went 71K miles and almost 11 years!
So far, my '97 Camry has gone over 69K on the original belt.
My '98 Frontier has a timing chain.
Volvo 960 - every 70k
Honda called for 60K replacements until 1990 when it went to 90K. For 1997 and up models, it's 105,000.
I think Toyota went to 90K in 1997.
Last week, an 1991 Civic was towed in with a snapped belt. The car had something like 130,000 miles on it. No engine damage, but the guy got stuck in the middle of one of our floating bridges during rush hour traffic...not a good thing.
Personally, I don't want to think about myself or my wife getting stranded because I want to push the manufacturers reccomendations.
But...we are all different, I guess.
The car didn't live long enough to see another timing belt change, though. Just about every component except for the transmission was shot by around 110-115,000 miles...and even the tranny was leaking!
Just about everything else I've ever owned has had a chain. Even my 2000 Intrepid has a chain, although I didn't know it when I bought it. It still has a recommended interval of 105,000 miles.
-Andre
If the belt breaks is is about $5000 to repair the damage. Bent valves, cracked heads, etc.
wil
Then at about 80k, my buddy's belt broke and bent those valves to the tune of about $1,200 bucks. I didn't look so foolish for spending the money after that!
Wow! You would think they could come up with a better design or something/
Greg
If you're going to do the job logic will tell one to do it right the first time spend the xtra $ for the replacements
Will you get a blowout? Probably not.
I recently had our timing belt fail at 110K (original belt) on our 95 Plymouth Voyager 3.0V6. The dealer wanted to replace it at 60K although the manual stated to check the TB at 100K. Luckily the engine is non-interference and no damage occurred. Water pump was also replaced at the same time.
How much did they save to get that extra 10,000 miles? LOL!!
Oh, by the way, it would have been about $250 to replace the belt. So you decide, do they put those intervals there for you to think they are just trying to get your money, or is there really something to it?
I have learned to distrust belt appearance as an indicator of condition. A name-brand belt with 30 K-miles on a Chrysler 4-cyl was recently found to be stretched so much that the tensioner couldn't reach it to apply tension. No cracks or visible wear - this overstretched belt looked great.
P.S. You made a good point about belt stretch. I've had to replace lots of serpentine belts because they'd stretched beyond the adjustment range of the tensioner.
But, as you said, this drives the price up.
To the average customer, cheap is good but when the water pump fails three months later, that same guy will be upset because you didn't change it.
When I ran a shop, I once tried to save a financially strapped customer a few bucks on a clutch job by reusing her old throwout bearing...it looked good. BIG MISTAKE!!
It failed six months leter and she raised so much hell that I got to do the job over for free.
So much for doing favors!
I had 2 belts replaced in the last 4 years because the tensioner wasn't replaced. It only would have cost another $50.00. In both cases they said it appeared fine when the belt was changed. Next time I'll change the tensioner when I change the belt, whether it needs it or not. I would especially do this on an impact engine.
If it's around 100,000 miles I'll also change the cam seals from now on. My Mazda at 90,000 had no cam and crankcase seal leaks. Now at 115,000 it does. I just got an estimate for the repair. $236.00. Of that only $30.00 for the seal parts and $40.00 for labor. The rest is for the @#$% timing belt removel to get to the seals. The belt is also swollen with oil so I'll just replace it again too.
Currently at 71K, all dealer maintenance every 5 thousand miles, feels like it could go another 100K.
It is too generalized.
It implies that in the fifth year of service, the probability of a timing belt failure to occur is 85%...even though the mileage is below what the manufacturers specifies! I said "implies"..
IMO, changing low mileage timing belts out every four years is as useless as changing oil and filter every 2,500 miles on an everyday use vehicle.
Actually the more often one lets "billy bob" the mechanic loose under their hood the greater the probability screwing up something else.
Although several things were touched upon in that post, I'd like to focus on the "changes" mentioned. The clowns that changed out mrdetailer's belts w/o tensioner replacement probably messed-up more things up than they repaired (if the truth be known). You guys know this could very well happen...not everyone is "Mr. Goodwrench".
Call this statement a "medaphor" if you want....but in the real world it is true. The more things are monkeyed with in key system areas, the greater exposure there is to screw-ups. That's likely to be true about...say 85% of the time, No?
As far as timing belts go, my '91 Mazda went just over 6 years and 82,000 miles before I voluntarily had it replaced.
My ASE mechanic specialized in Japanese vehicles. That was a plus IMO. The old belt was worn, didn't look that bad to the naked eye. Fortunately, the car sustained no accidental "injuries" during the operation.
Wish I could say that for other repair experiences.
five'er
Do you?
DON'T NEGLECT THE TIMING BELT!!!
You'll only hear it's Swan Song when it snaps.
Mu Subaru mechannic said I know the timing belt needs to be replaced. It's 75,000 miles, and I found that the CAM seals usually don't last beyond 100,000. Yes it cost me more immediately, but at least on one car I didn't have to do the same repair again. His foresight saved me about $300.00.
It's just that after 100,000 miles cars need more repairs. If I can save labor costs by a preventative repair when they are doing another I'll do it. Recently I had a repair to replace strut mounts on one side due to an accident. I paid to have the same thing done on the other side, and replaced the struts since it only cost $5.00 more in labor to put a new one in. The car rides like it is new.
What about low mileage engines?
You do realize that time can take its affects on the timing belt? Heat, oil, water, acids and other things have an impact on the timing belt the same as hoses and fan belts.
Funny, alot of folks don't think twice about replacing an alternator belt that looks cracked, but mention the timing belt and they start to squirm.
Can you imagine throwing in an oil change with the recall-was told it had something to do with pollution-the govt strikes again.
We got on the subject of timing belts. He indicated that his Corolla was just now reaching 60,000 miles....belt has never been changed. I'm guessing that belt is eight years old... If it were me, then I think I'd seriously consider a change sometime soon!
He also mentioned another person we know who got 105,000 miles on a 91 Corolla before the belt broke in year 2000. No additional internal damage incurred, however his wife was on the Interstate when it happened.
It just depends I think more on miles than the age. On the Corolla I was accelerating to 55 in 2nd or 3rd from a nice curve and it snapped. No damage to internals. I just put the car in neutral and coastes off the freeway on to an off-ramp when it finally stopped.
On my '82 Supra couple of teeth got chewed up at just shy of the 60k replacement. Though I drove it around for a couple of days like it.
Its one of those things they could go longer but how much longer is always a debateable subject.
I figure if the manufacturer recommends at certain miles or time its probably from some engineering team who spent some time doing calculations of an avg. life span of the meterial spec'd and the stresses the engine will place on the belt based on the design of the specific motor and whole lot of data to come up with that magical number.
If on a Honda it is 105K and not 100K its probably cause engineer spent the time for Honda to do those calculations and based on the mfg. experience came up with the magical number of 105K instead of 100K. Saab engineers calculated 30K and not 35K probably the same reason that Honda, or Toyota or any others come with their cars numbers. After all it is the companies reputation is at stake and it is in their best interest to come up with an correct number. IMHO Mechanics and dealers on the other hand have nothing to gain by giving long intervals between the changes.
See, I work fleet. Meaning, I get paid from my employer to keep their vehicles running and avoid down time. One time where I don't replace something like a timing belt and the vehicle goes down, the cost of towing, lost time and extra costs to my employer is going to make me look bad.
You lumped mechanics as a group by your statement and that isn't the case.
My point was as an individual consumer staying with the manufacturer recommendation is sufficient for vast majority of commuters. This is not to say go beyond the recommendation. Just not to have it done at 60K blindly if the recommendation is at 90K or 105K or whatever is the requirement for the speific motor.
On my 90 Accord, I replaced the belt at 155K after 7 years. No signs of excessive wear or stress.
So go figure.
I think however the recommended changes should be considered if you want peace of mind. Definitely if you are not the only driver of the car, and is shared with family members, all the recommended maintenance would be a good idea just to be on the safe side.