How about those pickup crash test results???????

zircon

I do not believe that a conspiracy exists with respect to the insurance industry's tests (premiums are another matter). However, one will note that they always show only 1 vehicle being crashed for each manufacturer, no doubt a cost constraint. Nevertheless, replication of experiments is critical for all studies to assess between treatment variation (Ford vs Toy), but also within treatment variation. If they crashed 10 Fords, some would have done better, some the same, some worse. When one sees the crumpled cab, were have no idea which end of the damage spectrum we're dealing with. It's possible overall damage for Ford may have overlapped GM and Dodge, or may have been even farther apart (worse), but we will never know.

This is my only concern with these standardized tests.

bamatundra

I agree that test results can vary between tests. The deformation of the cab between tests (if carefully controlled) should be very repeatable.

The best way to determine the likelihood of injury would to be to deterrmine the amount of vehicle deformation(or intrusion) into the passenger space) and the quality of the restraint system ( both of which the Chev did "Marginal} on.

The Chev pack's yapping Chihuahuas can try to minimize this - but it is the truth.

abc246

The Silverado driver had no injuries, SilvDrvInj = 0. The Tundra driver had injuries, TunDrvInj = 1. No injuries is better, so the lower the number the better. SilvDrvInj < TunDrvInj.

ryanbab

AWWW man my pic is gone

Pf did you at least find it amusing?

Ryan

ripinrocket

Simply, the Tundra did best and the F-150 did worst and the Silverado was in between.

Get over it, the Tundra is safer.

redsilverado

man this board is gettin just like the old days. looks like the girls are still in charge.

redsilverado

is just something your stuck with.

dweezil

That wasn't the point re: my post about the Insurance Institute. They are NOT interested in being benevolent. They're figuring out ways to deny claims or increase premiums or to pass liability onto the manufacturers with these silly grandstanding displays and Dateline, being the good shill that it is plays right into their hands.They're so intent on getting the big easy story with the big easy inflammatory sound bite and the big easy target they miss the overall story that's right in front of them.The insurance industry must have hired people from Phillip Morris to do their PR work.They KNOW what lemmings people are,makes it that much easier to deny claims on a vehicle THEY have deemed "unsafe" or to charge outrageous premiums for the honor of insuring with them.
What a plan: Take the money you've made denying claims and cutting corners,devise some bizarre crash test, make sure you get plenty of film on it, find a willing participant in the tabloid school of TV journalism and then present your evil little organization as concerned and caring protectors of the consumer.That they've gotten the public to over look the self serving purpose of these so called tests and believe in the objectivity of the cartel of insurers who pay for this junk science [with OUR premium dollars]is evidence that the scam is working.
An accident is as individual as a finger print. No two are alike.So the Seville and Lexus did well. So WHAT???? By what standard? In this particular set of limited circumstances that may occur NEVER in millions of miles of motoring among millions of people. There are an infinitismal number of factors that occur in each collision,The Insurance Institute has factored in only a few, yet people start wringing their hands and start running around scared playing the "what if?" game based on nothing they will actually ever encounter in their day to day life. When was the last time you ever ran into a solid barrier at 40mph, without putting on the brakings or trying to steer out of the way????
If the insurance companies actually had their customers best interests at heart, there'd be no need for the Larry H. Parker ambulance chaser style lawyers of the world.These so called results have not a dime's worth of relevance in actual traffic. Besides,haven't we all been treated to the results of a study that claims our actual commute time has increased by 20 minutes and the average speed down to 30- 35 MPH???? This is simply nonsense, but if you want to "believe" these crash results are true, I'll put a dollar in your collection plate and say amen.

redsilverado

that was well thought and you said more than a mouthful. problem is, majority of us don't believe in garbage tests such as these. like you say "when was the last time you ran into a wall at 40mph"? errrr, never. the big issue in here is the same old tundra vs. silverado. that's why i said that if you actually had a crash exactly like the one we saw on TV, but had weight or some type of load in the truck, that insurance companies would use it to weasel out of a claim. what they showed on TV, doesn't mean diddly to anyone who knows anything about trucks. you are right about the fact that the public is easy to convince about anything these days. i'd love to see this whole country refuse to buy a drop of gas for just one day, but there is no way you'd get everyone to do it. people are weak and the bigshots know it.

redsilverado

what was wrong with the pic that Ryan posted?
are we no longer allowed amusement here at edmunds?

obyone

the WOMAN is still in charge.

redsilverado

that's gonna leave a red skid mark!

ripinrocket

DWEEZIL,

Yeah, yeah, keep it up with the weak conspiracy theories! they're all out to get you!

redsilverado,

into a wall at 40-mph? Why don't you find out what that wall is made of and what it is designed to simulate. It's too bad, your Chevy did bad, but that doesn't mean the test is bad, it just mean's your Chevy stinks! I'm sure if your Chevy did well you would be raving about it's performance!

And I see you have a reading comprehension problem.

redsilverado

your post means a lot to people here since you don't even drive a truck. Dohh! why should i or would i rave about the already most popular truck on the road? sales figures have already done that for us. you seem to carry a lot of hostility towards anyone with a chevy. it's not my fault that your better half made you by a yuppymobile.
wish you at least had a truck don't ya? it's ok, some people have their life controlled so we understand.

chevytruck_fan

why are you anti American car ownder touting this test when IN FACT under injury measures the tundra did WORSE, the Silverado had all good ratings under injuries, while the tundra had a marginal for foot injuries.

I dont understand why having a better chance of an injury in the tundra makes it better?

redsilverado

you'd be disgruntled too, if your wife made you drive a Beemer....LOL

toddstock

I think you are a little bit confused saying that your chevy got a better rating injury wise... NO NO NO my buddy ole pal of mine.. It is not said anywhere that a leg was broken, but it is said that the kinetic force on the lemonado was much much greater.... Period

quadrunner500

tindra:
INJURY MEASURES: RIGHT LEG/FOOT MARGINAL Measures taken from the head and chest indicate low risk of injury. However, forces on the right tibia indicate the possibility of lower leg injury.

(That's the bone in your leg pal!)

Silverado:
INJURY MEASURES: GOOD Measures taken from the head, chest, and both legs indicate low risk of injury. Head acceleration from the shoulder belt housing contact was low.

Nuff said

mrf

I read these crash test results with some interest since I used to have an F-150...however, one thing that I did notice that was common to all three of the domestic trucks (beside marked cab deformation) was the anchoring of the seatbelts to the seats themselves. Ever since GM started this with the (I believe) the '97 Buick Park Avenue, I have wondered how well this would work...and it was one reason I did not consider the Buick LeSabre last year when in the market for a full-sized sedan.

How well can the seatbelt protect the occupant when the belt is anchored to the seat frame and the seat track fails (no doubt due to the combined loaded weight of the seat during deceleration?

Unfortunately, the other two domestic truck makers have apparently adopted this yet another brilliant GM design feature in their extended cab trucks... so I wonder if that doesn't partially contribute to the poor performance?

toddstock

Did someone miss the big "P" in the Chevy Silverado column under "restraints/Dummy Kinematics"?

And how about head restraint ratings?

Seems no matter which way you cut it, the Tundra still comes out on top.

And remember a good safety cage is very important. Think about a person driving the Silverado 10mph more and how much more of a pancake that cabin would turn into!

quadrunner500

If "ifs and buts were candy and nuts," I'll sign your leg cast for you..."Get well soon Todd! At least your dummy had good kinematics!" LOL!

redsilverado

that we aren't even a handful of the population that talks to each other everyday, and how do we talk to each other? nothing but childish remarks, and all this over a dumb japaneese attempt of a truck that does nothing more than go "cheep,cheep" and breaks your leg.

quadrunner500

Todd, what color pen would you like me to sign your cast with?

lspangler

I'd say this test is supposed to represent what would happen if you were driving along and someone crossed the centerline and hit you head on but with only 1/3 of thier vehicle. I'd say this more likely to happen than having two cars hit exactly head on. Also, the Toyota held together quite well, the chevy wasn't to bad, though it makes you wonder what would happen to the Ford and Dodge if they hit another vehicle traveling at 40 mph in the other direction? I think the Ford would have been unrecognizable.

jcave1

Tundra, F-150, Silverado ... All very well and good, we all have our own preferences, these are all good vehicles. Crash tests seemed to be all too limited. Didn't see any of the larger vehicles tested, Duramax, Super Duty, or Dodge.
These trucks are much to popular not to test. Real trucks should also be tested. Possibly crash information does exist on these?

redsilverado

todd's losin it again........aka name callin..rock throwin......so sad.

quadrunner500

http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?p=999&gid=255265&uid=125157

toddstock

You are making a mockery of yourself as usual...

toddstock

but I just made a fortune on a stock... Isn't life grand.... God I love life and love the fact that I am in such a safe truck... P.S. Anyone want to buy a 1999 CR 500 or a 98 Honda 50, let me know..The CR500 has never been dumped, and is in fantastic shape... Gonna get a new one and my wife wants a motorcycle with training wheels.... What do you guys think about a new boat... I have a Stingray now, Maria would be better, yes???

quadrunner500

Two happiest days in a mans life?

The day he buys his boat, the day he sells his boat.

ratboy3

what are the chances that IIHS bought a weak truck for their test.. since there are so many of them.. one is bound to come up inferior to its own make and model..

the Tundra brakes alone is an example.. some people swear by their flawless truck but mine had been replaced (TSB)..

ryanbab

I applaud you honesty

Ryan

chevytruck_fan

were not disputing that fact, they moved more buyt they were injured LESS in the silverado, they moved less but were injured MORE in the Tundra.

abc246

I wonder what truck you guys would pick if……you had to be in it during the IIHS crash test!!!!

If you pick the Tundra, better have pins for your ankle, if they can save it.

Pick the Silverado, enjoy the ride!

Pick the Dodge or Ford, well who knows what you will need.

TSchramm

Toyota trucks have earned higher reliability scores than Ford, Chevy and Dodge, as well as higher initial customer satisfaction scores from JD Powers, the benchmark for automotive quality.

Now, I realize a lot of pickup owners don't read much and have an even bigger problem understanding the concept of statistics, but as the saying goes:

"You can make up your own opinion, but you can't makeup your own facts."

And those are the facts.

chevytruck_fan

how come everytime I bring up JD Power the japanese car owners start talking about how it really doesn't mean that much?

quadrunner500

Those are not *all* the facts TSchramm, since Dodge Ram and F150 did better on DOT tests. But where did arrogant minivan dweebs get the notion they have an exclusive on knowledge about statistics, or variance, mean, std deviation, differential calculus or any other quantitative method? While you hurl your insult at pickup drivers in general, I submit they know more about the organic chemistry and reproductive anatomy that put you into the minivan category, than you can elaborate about their choice of truck with statistics.

And those are the facts.

redsilverado

thank you for your otherwise arrogant post that means little to nothing since toyota has had the tundra on the road for what? almost 2 years? you'd probably buy brand X television that's only been on the market for 2 years, but hasn't failed yet instead of buying brand Y that's been around for 20 years, but has had a few problems. and all because some write up states that brand X is the most reliable. it's people like you that keep writers employed. LOL.
know what you are saying before you say it cause it's rather embarassing to see a statement like that. give the tundra time and it will show you just what it is that we already know. JD doesn't say anything about the latest TSB out on the tundra does it? here's a hint, it has to do with stopping hardware, if that means anything to you.

1949

Okay, Okay...NBC ran that piece on the crash test results...FORD, GM & CHRYSLER do some cringing, Ford sales will slip for a few weeks, Toyota humbly reminds us not to oversimplify test results....us consumers do our blah, blah, blahing on this particular thread.....and I estimate that all of this hoopla will "fade away" as it always does in a couple of weeks. After that, you'll see a few hardcore "blind sheep" types who will believe the Tundra is the best overall p/u because it passed the offset test with flying colors and will remain here through the summer. The rest of us will move on and continue buying Tundra's, F150s, Silverado's and Ram's......whatever fits your needs and makes you happy. We're spoiled in America, but I LOVE IT!!

jaguar0027

are BRUTAL... Chill guys... its not the end of the world...

Jim

quadrunner500

But "brutally honest" more like it!

dweezil

Thanks, you said it even better.I only watch Dateline for the car crashes.You get better crash info from those blazing "World's Most Dangerous Drivers" shows though. And to whomever that was suggesting a conspiracy:No conspiracy; it's the way insurance companies make their money.If they can put a veneer of "friend of the friendless and you're in good hands".....well...... even better.It's only an observation and certainly more believable than "as seen on TV"......it's called protecting your a** and every business does it. Anyone wants to believe the insurance industry is a good corporate citizen, fine. They'll love you too, so long as you don't try to make a claim.
Sorry if I insulted any insurance salesmen out there, but......
1949: amen; it won't make one whit of difference in a month.
Hey; life is a risk and driving is dangerous. Almost got run off the road by a bimbo in a BMW trying to pass me on the right going up Laurel Canyon.
Here's what will increase your chances of avoiding an accident:Put the cell phone down,turn down the volume on the stereo, use your signals and mirrors,put down that taco and be aware of the road ahead and around you.
Every choice has trade offs. Why buy a house in LA if there are earthquakes, or Davenport Iowa if there are floods or Miami if there are hurricanes? Why not just stay on the street in case something might happen??? Why not refuse to make decisions, because you might make the wrong one? What if.........................???
Sorry I cannot live like that, I live in the real world in real time like most people.Is anyone else as sick of being nagged as I am by these do good feel good types? Seems no one has a good idea that doesn't require spending someone else's money or minding someone else's business.
Here's another aspect: do you realize how many types of these pickups are offered? Long bed short bed, 5000lb GVW,2000lb.GVW 2 door 4 door extended cab, long wheelbase, short wb. extended wb,4 wheels or six, styleside, sportside 4wd or 2wd, 4 6 or v-8, and every combination in between.See the list in this month's Auto World.
There are too many factors involved to make the Insurance Institute's findings meaningful.And Dateline has been a party to this crap for so long, they've got no credibility.

quadrunner500

100%

michgndr

Whattya wanna know about statistics? You used words and phrases like "higher", "a lot", "even bigger". That's pretty telling....LOL.

Stats my [non-permissible content removed]. If you want to reference their utility, why don't you cough up some numbers?

1949

dweezil....no one could've said it any better than you did. I think you should have the honors and put this thread to sleep with 'ol Tim McVeigh on Monday morning. Happy Motoring!!

redsilverado

not sure why this needs or even applies in here but, to each his own i guess. sounds like a personal problem too.

redsilverado

i only followed your lead. too bad some can't see the truth of it.

taco2001

The fact is the Japanese do make a superior vehicle. This is a result of many years of refinement and superior engineering. Domestic car makers made the decision a while back to focus on profit, not quality. They are paying the price now for this ill-fated decision. I understand those of you who buy domestic vehicles because you feel you are somehow being patriotic or loyal to the "Big3". Buy American right? Well, loyalty is a two-way street. The manufacturer owes it to the consumer to take some of those profits and pour them back into research and development to produce a better quality, more refined product. This has not been the case with the American auto-maker. Your blind loyalty is down right sickening to be honest with you folks. All they're doing really is changing the wrapper and selling you the same piece of junk they sold you 20 years ago, maybe even gave it a different name. But you blind "sheep" keep coming back for more, no questions asked. Wake up and demand more from your domestic auto-maker. Remind them that you are paying their huge salaries with your hard-earned dollars and you expect more from them. Only then will they wake up and realize "who made who".

bamatundra

It IS too bad that some can't see the truth of it.

Dweezil - has his conspiracy theories. I know, Toyota paid the IIHS to rig the results. That's the ticket.

No? - Oh, I know - Dateline paid them off. Yeah, that's the ticket!

Do you guys really believe this tripe? Are you really that naive?

Red and Quad - "Yeah, you the man, Dweezil!" Who are they? Dweezil's cheerleaders? Hilarious.

The IIHS ran exactly the same test on very similar vehicles from Chev, Ford, Dodge and Toyota. The crash test results speak for themselves.

Quad and Red Claim that the Big2 owners really don't care how safe their vehicles are. Do they really believe this themselves?

Now for some facts - The Tundra ranks much better than Ford, GM and Dodge in crashworthiness. If safety is an issue for you (obviously it is not for the Chev owners) - Then the Tundra is by far the best choice.

People who are severely injured or killed in auto accidents don't anticipate it. If they did, they wouldn't be called accidents. I had a friend and both of his parents were killed by a drunk driver. Do you think that they would have wanted a safer vehicle? You guys are a hoot.

Now climb in your marginal (in many ways including safety) Chev pickups and be careful out there!

mbaudibest1

does this mean that the expedition/navigator or durange and suburban/tahoe/escalade also do pitifully in the test? they all share the same chassis with the poor performing trucks, dont they? no wonder SUVs and trucks are so high grossing for the automakers. cheap metal and poor engineering go along way to fatten the profits of the domestic makers. i guess that's how they are able to give away their sedans to fleet sales. did ford not say they wanted to work with the IIHS to improve the F150? insisting that the crash is too severe is also silly, since it's the high speed crashes that kill people, not slower crashes. these tests are brutal. but if they can stand high crash forces, most likely they can withstand lower forces. the same isnt true the other way around though. it's irrational and stupid to say the tests dont matter. rather, such an arguement is rooted in the Big three's stranglehold on the large truck marktet, and the loyalty of their buyers. and why the irrational loyalty? what has ford/GM/dodge done for the automotive public other than illucidate some rugged macho man image porported by commercials and ads? basically, no truck will ever satisfy most people's primary use of a vehicle- to travel/commute on ROADs. what's the essential arguement of buying a truck? to haul dirt? why buy an unsafe, low quality vehicle when a much more rational sedan/coupe/minivan does all the same primary functions and has better crash scores and safety? that rugged image doesnt mean much when a certain vehicle is likely to cause fatal injuries in a crash.