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Comments
Scott
The bias toward BMW is very interesting given BMW has been doing this how long? And Infiniti has been trying to do it, how long? If BMW didn't hit the sweet spot, it would have had a for sale sign on it's door a long time ago. Next year when it comes time for another review, there will be a new flock of BMW to compete with. I'm not justifying anything, I find it hard to believe a car company with one car is going to come in as an upstart and beat established players. BMW never gives away it's speed, you have to pay to play. The G35 would have been nothing with the 3.0L engine. As it is, the 3.5L sure is more powerful than BMWs 3.0L, but that's how big Infiniti needed to go to get decent performance. And of course gas mileage is not as good as the 330i.
Could be just the way the car feels when pushed. There was an article while back about 911 GT3 & M3 GTR. The writer wrote that M3 GTR was extremely comfortable while 911 GT3 really beat you up.
kdshapiro, what are the hard numbers for Neon SRT-4? I can't seem to find them here on Edmunds. If you have the numbers, please post them since this pocket rocket looks interesting.
Why do you insist on brining up cars in another class? Great, so a Porsche 911 Turbo obliterates the BMW 330i. It's a different class of car.
Compare like cars to each other. In this case, we're look at entry level lux sedans, not econobox turbo sedans.
>>The bias toward BMW is very interesting given BMW has been doing this how long? And Infiniti has been trying to do it, how long?<<
This would be the first attempt to take on the 3 series with a entry level sports-luxury sedan in the 30k range.
Certainly we can do some comparing here, but that board really is the best place to get into an extended comparison of the G35 to anything else.
Let's hear what you think.
Pat
Sedans Host
I do understand what you are saying about the GT3 versus the GTR, but getting beat up versus feeling confident are two different things to me. Hence my comments / question about one being more "tossable" than the other.
Also, and maybe it's just me, but it seems like there has to be some level of confidence associated with the handling of the G in order to generate the higher number. Wouldn't that be reasonable? You're not on a track where there are straights take advantage of straight line acceleration. You are talking purely the ability of a driver to navigate a specific auto through cones over a specific distance as fast as possible. Fast acceleration may help, but if the driver is not confident in the abilities / handling of the auto, isn't that reflected in the speed he or she is able to generate though the cones?
The Neon (nor a Protege MP3 which does get great handling numbers) is not remotely in this range and thus not a fair comparison. Thanks BGDC.
As far as upstarts, the IS300 is the first try of Lexus and does pretty well in the handling department (sticking to the subject at hand).
What does this mean?
Do we then have to increase the price of the G35 by 8K to make it equal? Or how about reduce the rear seat room?
How about my wife races you in our auto G35. You can drop your clutch at 4K rpm and take a few months off the life of your tires (and clutch), and maybe you’ll catch up at the next light.
Actually my wife drives very slow and conservative, but you get the point.
heh
If I just lost a race to a 360 Modena I don't think my come back would be to yell out the window
"hey, I get better gas mileage"
I thought that was the slogan for the civic's, metro's...very sad...
223HP
223ft-lb torque
Probable 0-60 of ~6.8 to 7.0, possibly better with different gearing.
Would STILL be a contender and would handle equally well. Would probably brake better, since the car would be lighter.
If I remember correctly, the "competition" stops from 60-0 in ~126 feet. A whole car length (or more) farther than the 3** (oops), uh, I mean "competition".
Guess that mindshare wins over performance, almost every time.
However, it DOES sound like the BMW fan contingent is getting rather desperate if they are now trying to compare their ageing favorite to make-believe cars, just so they can feel/look better. After all, why not just compare the G35 to a 325? After all, they ARE priced about the same...
Talk about remorse...
Scott
heh
If I just lost a race to a 360 Modena I don't think my come back would be to yell out the window
"hey, I get better gas mileage"
I thought that was the slogan for the civic's, metro's...very sad...
On several occasions I have experienced noise that seems to be coming from the compressor during acceleration. On gentle acceleration I wouldn't hear it but accelerating up to 3500 rpm or so sometimes it really sounds off. This problem is intermittant and doesn't usually happen. Called the dealer and they said they haven't yet experienced this problem. I will watch this and probably bring it in next week. I am wondering if it could be caused by belt slipage. Love the G but wish to resolve this. My 1999 Maxima never did this.
Paul
El Cajon, California
While these batch of number certainly favor the G35, there will be another batch by someone else that will show something different. BMW buyers don't have buyers remorse, except to say that once we get in one of them, the only remorse is not getting the M3.
It's only compared to the 3 series because it's closer in price.
I'm just joking
Tony,
So I would like to say instead of complaining about what they didn't do, we should thank them for what they do provide.
Ken
Besides the BMW forum is boring. :P
Typically, belt noises occur from 0 through low speeds (<20MPH).
Scott
Scott
And we really need to see reviews and results from multiple sources. They test differently. Different drivers. Different cars. There can be significant variability in results from a single model (whole concept of some result like power output or acceleration figures from a huge production batch having a mean, distribution, and the resulting standard deviation).
And I hope there isn't anything "interesting" with these G35s. The early reports of a 19/24 MPG EPA rating that then led to 19/26 MPG rating still have me wondering. Lincoln initially released small numbers of the then-new LS in CY 1999 with "hot" final drive ratios. Gave them increased acceleration but reduced fuel economy. Press tested these cars. Soon after the ratios were lowered numerically, reducing acceleration but improving fuel economy, but by then no one in press was testing the later models.
I can't wait for the first 6 or 7 car sport sedan comparison. And more test results from lots of sources. I say, bring it on! Quickly!!!
So if they achieved a result of 6.1 or whatever, then they may actually have gotten a 6.3 or 5.8.
I'm not sure how accurate correcting the time is. There seems to be a large number of variables involved. Especially when you consider traction with different tire manufactures (diff operating temperatures etc.)
Compare to C&D: "All performance results are corrected to standard atmospheric conditions."
I prefer R&T's methodology. They discuss track and tuning affecting the car, publish their real results, and let you decide. Not sure I'm a big fan of mathematical adjustments. Real results are real results. And the best real results are from multiple car tests not single car tests compared over time.
My preferences are entirely mine. I'm not a fan of statistical sampling or adjusting as regards national census data.
You will buy a car for a lot of reasons, 0-60 may have everything to do with it or 0-60 may have nothing to do with it. The interior may have everything to do with or the interior may have nothing to do with it etc.. These shootouts are for bragging rights only and what effect they have on getting people to buy is only a guess. IMO they are used more by people who want to justify their purchase.
So buy what you want and enjoy what you drive. You take reliability, overall performance, residuals, dealer service, interior and exterior qualities and amenities and quirks, soul and feel of the car and payments - and your stuck with that for a few years.
The my car is better than your car is just a discussion, no one will ever win. However, the I enjoy to drive x car better than y car is another story.
Scott
My definition of a sport sedan would also require a limited slip differential. Since the 330i doesn't have a LSD, it's not a sport sedan.
I do a lot of travelling on 2-lane county roads. Have to pass a lot. That is when a manual can really come in handy. Shift from 5th (or 6th) to 3rd (or 4th) and really move quickly. In complete control. Never have cared for automatics in this situation. Can't guarantee what the tranny will do. Even with the manumatics there always seems to be a significant delay.
The inside release for the gas door is your door unlock button! You have to unlock the door to get out and fill your gas, right?
The gas cover and trunk opens/locks when the doors are the doors are open or lock. So the if you want to unlock your gas cover from the inside, then unlock your door! I personally like this design because it doesn't break the clean, smooth line of the car panel. I like it better than the groove on the gas door that you have to flip open.
The new 7 series BMW have this gas cover feature, I don't see anyone criticizing a $70k car for that, but god forbid a G35 with this feature.
Sheesh, may be Infiniti was cutting cost, but BMW was a genious for using this design
Someone in another forum mentioned that even "Edward Scisorhand could open the dam gas tank door without scratching the car" lol
Tony
However, you seem to want to take this to extremes. I guess to get an equivalent comparison, we need to drop a detuned 540 engine into a 330 so that it can compete, then stack the criteria toward German car attributes and see who will be a winner?
Our complaint is, and always has been, that there is a bias toward certain attributes that, when everything else is lost, many of the media revert to so that their favorite will win. Personally, I would like to see what these journalists are driving. Should be an interesting lesson in "unbiased journalism"...
Of course, the German car has a "better transmission", right? Says who? Automatic to automatic, they are very similar. Maybe we should change this to "better drivetrain". Hey, we could say, better seats in one model for one type of driver (say the "sport" model with 6ft, 300lb drivers) and the German car will probably win. UGH! I'll put my (wife's) G35's tranny against ANY that the competition have.
Isn't it great to have such different opinions about the same vehicle(s)?
riez - The passing times for the speeds you noted for the G35 are as good or better than any its competition can post.
Scott
Hey V-TECH, do you realize that the smallest jet is still bigger than a G35? Go to an airshow and find an F16 and take a good look at it.
In one camp they say that the 0-60 is just a number a "small part of the picture", and like an anomalous score in any competitively judged sport, can be "thrown out"... but isn't that number also the cars power to weight ratio, drive wheel traction, longitudinal control at launch, drive train effectiveness, tires, throttle response, etc etc etc?
And when a car does well in the slalom, doesn't that even speak greater volumes as to the cars abilities?
I don't like the BMW stigma, but that doesn't mean I can't appreciate what they have masterfully built. But I have driven both vehicles (330i and the G35) and I think that the G35 has a "soul" in no less quantity than the BMW. It's just different and not something people will readily accept simply because again, the stigma of European mastery over all other car manufacturers. It may be much less than I am putting forth, and then again it might be far greater... I DO know that driving around in an M5 gets knowing and envious looks from many, I did it for 4 days just recently. I can feel that and I can understand the envy with as much clarity as I can feel the acceleration of the M5 in my rear end when I stomp on the pedal.
Has anyone seen Monty Python's "Life of Brian"? The scene where Reg is seething about "What have the Roman's ever done for us!" and the scene goes on and on as the assembled crowd rattles off benefit after benefit of being under the Romans...
It almost sounds like it applies a bit here sometimes
Reg: "Ok, BESIDES the faster 0-60, faster slalom time, faster 1/4 mile, shorter braking distance, greater reliability, better interior room, and larger trunk space... What has the G35 ever done better than a 330i?!"
Meekly from the back of the room," Well... it's cheaper..."
Reg: "Oh SHUT UP!"
All in good fun!
It modulated in volume and tone as I accelerated and decellerated and became much more intense under hard braking.
"Damn!" I said out loud "What in the heck is that?!"
All I could think about was that something was malfunctioning, and how I would have to come back to the 330i vs G35 forum with my head hanging in shame as I detailed an expensive repair to the suspension system and/or the ABS, and had to admit to an example of a failure of the Legendary Infiniti reliability!
I pulled over and pulled out a flashlight and peered into the wheelwell...
Wedged inbetween the upper suspension arm and the wheel and wheelwell was a partially flattened 1 gallon plastic milk jug! *laughing*
I pulled it out and placed it under the car... then for fun I pretended to be all concerned and went to the trunk and took out some tools and as I went past the passenger side I told the wife...
"Hang on honey.. I need to make an adjustment... I banged around lightly in the wheel well area and faked turning the socket wrench (ratcheting it with my hand)
and then I got up... with a smile, put the tools away, and got in and drove off...
The wife says "Wow! what was wrong?"
"Oh, nothing that a master mechanic couldn't repair..."
She almost bought it, but she knows me too well... and said "Yeah right, it was probably just something like a piece of plastic stuck up in there..."
Darn it! she's good! *laughing*!
Faenor
Excellent Monty Python scene point...some people will never be satisfied by tests, comparisons and opinions provided by others. The world is teaming with cars that are perfect to some yet lacking to others. I can't say I don't enjoy following the debate though!
Me? I'll just go on thoroughly enjoying my G35 for what it is to me - a very fast, competent handling, extremely safe, uniquely styled, accomodatingly roomy, fairly luxurious, 28k bargain of a car.
Stacey
Regarding some of the comparisons I have read on this forum, I believe that most of the cars mentioned are fine automobiles but you are always going to be comparing apples to oranges. Everyone's needs are different. I drive 60 miles a day round trip to work and I wanted a sporty, reliable, luxurious, roomy, powerful, economical, and comfortable car. I wanted to be able to take another couple to dinner or even on a short trip without everyone emerging from the back seat miserable. I researched BMW, Infiniti, Audi, VW, Cadillac, Toyota, Nissan, and even the Mercedes C-class. My Acura is apparently not quite as fast as the G or the 330 but it generally has more interior room than either of the two. It also has a larger trunk. Were I in my 20's instead of in my 40's I would doubtlessly consider the G or the 330. The Cadillac CTS was in short supply and unfortunately, like most other American cars, as a brand, has an unenviable record of reliability. My father has a 2001 Avalon that I drive often, It offers everything I wanted in a car but the seats were not comfortable to me and in my opinion it looks like it is "my father's car". I also have the opportunity to ride in BMW's and Mercedes with some frequency. These cars are expensive, quick, and handle well but are rather cramped, particularly in the rear seat. Obviously they offer a great deal of prestige but I personally don't think that their quality is on a par with the better Japanese products. I have read past posts of Mercedes owners that rave about their cars yet admit that it costs them a couple of thousand a year or more to maintain them (I have no idea why). I also don't understand some of the posts I have read where owners were raving about the interiors on the BMW and the Audi. To me they are just plain bland. I am not saying that the interior of my Acura is any better, it's bland too. In my own admittedly subjective opinion the Avalon is the winner in interior design or (God forbid) perhaps even the interior of my (thank God now gone) Hyundai XG300L.
The bottom line is that each of these cars offers something admirable and will out perform the others in some ways. Everyone must decide which of these performance issues are best suited to their particular needs. It does not make the other cars mentioned inferior - that is except that God-awful Hyundai I just got rid of.
All cars have soul. Some of the "souls" of cars might appear to be boring for a car enthusiast. But to deny cars have souls is to equate at every level a Yugo with a top of the line Mercedes.
<< And when a car does well in the slalom, doesn't that even speak greater volumes as to the cars abilities? >>
If that's the case let measure all cars by their handling in the slalom, cars that do well, have a stigma.
Now faenor I ask you is there a stigma attached to the three point star on the C240?
However, my wife and I also REALLY liked the car you bought. We were all set to buy it, but the G35 came out and we test drove one on the second day it was available in Memphis. Decided that it was enough better, but was a close call.
Personally, out of all of the cars we drove, we liked the Acura's interior better than any (with the exception of the front seats in the 330i sport model). To us, it was one VERY classy set up.
Congratulations and I hope you enjoy your new vehicle.
Scott
The G35 also has a "stigma". That of raw, unbridled power, best-in-class handling and braking, best value in an entry-level sport sedan. Yep, that is one "stigma" I don't mind driving/having! 8^)
Scott
Some handle really well, some have excellent power, but no soul.
Except maybe "Christine"