Deciding on a new diesel 4 door 1 ton SRW LB pickup
bobsquatch
Member Posts: 136
in General
I am gearing up to buy a new truck. I need a 4X4 diesel 1 ton 4 door long bed with single rear wheels. I am most familliar with the Ford Powerstroke because I maintain them as part of my work. The problem is that everyone I talk to is so blind in their loyalty toward ford as the ultimate truck it is hard to separate fact from fiction. I am leaning toward Ford at this point with two exceptions. They seem smaller than just a few years ago. ( I could sit in the back seat with my hard hat on in 96-98) I also heard a rumor that every five years ford recommends replacing the entire fuel system at a cost of around $5000.00 to keep your truck running.(diesel only). The Duramax sounds impressive but I am leary of first year anything and I hear of a tick and a shudder that the dealers are unable to resolve. I have heard however of the 100,000 mile waranty of the Duramax truck... Is this true??? Lastly I hear the Dodge cummins is a great engine but the trucks it comes in do not hold up as well as they do. I also feel that they would be a bit underpowered for what I need even though I like the idea of a straight six in a diesel. Finally, why I need this truck. Primarily it will be a daily driver/family mover. Weekends and holidays it will pull a 10,400lb trailer RV. I get stuck enough 2WD to justify the 4X4 even though it's no trail rig I really do need it for Mexican boat launchig and getting away from all the motorhomes in the desert. Dual rear wheels just pick up rocks and cost more to replace and I can haul the load I need without them or the fat fenders that come with them. I am ready to buy once I decide which is truly best suited to my needs so all genuine unbiased advice will be greatly appreciated and heavilly considered. I have not decided between a six speed manual or an auto yet and will hear arguments for each. I am leaning for the longevety and power of the manual versus the convenience of an auto. Thank you my fellow truckers for your advice. I will let you know what I decide and who to praise or blame as time goes by.
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I'm leaning toward a Duramax 6 spd., crew cab, short bed (fits in the garage, long bed won't), 2WD w/ posi rear. Before I take the plunge I will take a good hard look at the equivalent Ford.
The uses will be similar to yours, although I like to be able to hook up to water and power, so I stay close to the RV's, and so far I've always managed to recover the boat with 2WD, so I can't justify the extra $3,000 for 4WD (in lieu of the posi).
I'm not going to get the new truck before the 2002 model year, so the first year jitters are not an issue.
If I worked on Fords for a living, I'd probably get on for myself, just so I'd have some idea what to expect. I have no experience with Fords, or with the Navistar T-444E (also known as PSD). I do have some experience with B series Cummins (12-valves) and with GM 6.2 and 6.5 diesels. By any measure I can think of the Cummins is far superior to the old GM. Although a few people have gotten high miles out of the GM's, I personally consider them to be hand-grenades waiting to explode. Duramax is the first serious diesel to be available in GM trucks, in my opinion. I have nothing bad to say about Cummins 5.9 engines, except the 24-valve sure is LOUD. If there were crew cab Dodges, I'd be seriously considering buying one.
Personally I'll be getting a manual transmission, because I like them. Every Allison transmission in my experience has been extremely robust, and I wouldn't expect this new one to be any different. Once again, I have no experience with Ford automatics, so I won't offer any advice about them.
I hope some others will post their thoughts, to help us out.
Looks like ford is your only option
Ryan
We do alot of pulling with horses and I know many people with heavy-dutys of different makes and models but mainly Fords & Dodges as the Chevy's weren't attractive until just recently. I've seen both makes go through trannies, rear-ends, and alot of small stuff. Personally don't see a big difference between them as far as reliability goes. The Ford has a much more attractive offering with the crew-cab which I'm sure is a big part of why you see alot more SD Fords than anything else. Dodge should have a crew-cab sometime next year, will be intersting to check out.
Richcolo & Sebring95: Dodge is releasing a real crew-cab for 2002. I don't know about the 1 ton SRW or not, though.
If you have an auto trans you get a Dana 70 rear and ALL of 'em get a 60 on the front.
Ford puts the 60 fronts on the 450/550 and disc brakes on ALL the rears.
Hopefully Dodge will get modern with their brakes to handle all that massive power.
Where did I mention my truck???
Red...er..lake....er dan hull, quit trying so hard. It really is quite obvious you're touched in the head!!! ROTFLMFAO!!!
I also test drove a ford psd that had almost everything I wanted. As the sales rep pulled up he said something isnt right so I gave it a once over and found somone had locked a single hub. As we left the lot the service engine light came on so we went around the block and came back. Probably just a minor thing but a terrible first impression. I may go test drive a dodge today but they are pretty much out as they do not offer a true 4 door yet. By the way whalen, I have had a dana 60 rear in my van that has been abused to extremes and have had zero problems so I am comfortable with that size and up. The stronger the better but I can live with 60's happily. Question, the big problems I hear about the dodge is the steering on the 4X4 3/4ton+ models and that the little things like fit and finish deteriorate quickly. Have you experienced this?
Does anyone know the release dates for the new Dodge crew-cabs? When will they be on the lot? Will the updated Cummins be 2002 or 2003?
-Eric
John, do they make a high output version of the cummins? How much difference? I can't find a 6 speed on the lot for any of the big 3. I guess when people buy a high end truck they all want the luxury of an auto vs the durability/power of a H.D. manual. This is a problem as I want to drive them before I order one and it is seemingly impossible. I am still undecided about the trans I want. How many miles on your ram? any squeaks or rattles?
If you are going gas their is no comparison to GM's gas lineup. The 8.1L V8 is just the ultimate power house, and the 6.0 does a great job too.
joestapelton, if you read that article they complain about a lot of crap like rough ride (what a pickup is suppose to have), trim pieces falling off because some stupid person is putting their weight on a b pillar, no car is meant to have a b pillar as a pull up bar, while there was some problems, most of them were stupid crap edmunds wanted to complain about. I would give them a chance, most of the people with car problems are the ones that have what I call bad car carma, if you think the truck will give you years of problem free service that is what you will get. and since you have had years of trouble free service you probably have good luck with cars. weird I know but it is the truth.
It's ironic. I have (3) pals with Powerstroke Diesels, and (3) with Ram Cummins. They are always advising me of some new Duramax/Allison problem they've heard about from the Ford/Dodge camp, that us poor chevy owners must have been kept in the dark about. As owners, we are out of the loop, can't get reliable information of course! I only know one other owner of Duramax. He's not had a hint of any problem also. At http://www.thedieselpage.com , you can probably surmise that most Duramax owners are ecstatic to have one.
There's really no question, the Allison is the cat's meow of HD automatics. As for Duramax, it's under a lot of scrutiny and envy, natural for anything so new, with so much horsepower (300), and torque (520 ft/lbs).
Having driven the PSD, it has more torque off the bottom from 500-1200 rpm. The Duramax makes more power starting about 1600-1700 rpm on up. Duramax seems to get better fuel economy unloaded than PSD, not quite as good as Cummins, about the same as PSD loaded, not quite as good loaded as Cummins.
The aluminum heads have been criticized, but there are no documented problems, just rumor and innuendo. The diesel page has a poster who works for Isuzu. He states he inspects every engine sent
back under the warranty exchange. While there have been a few isolated instances, he said some are sent back mis-diagnosed. There have been posters stating problems with the heads, usually reads like "MY HEADS MELTED!!!" He asks for a VIN, the dealer name, supporting documentation, poster vanishes. No head problems have been proved. And so goes much of the innuendo.
In the end, you buy what you like, and are most comfortable with. In case of Duramax/Allison, I think most problems are exaggerated, if not fabrications altogether.
My choice was PSD which my buddies bad mouth at every opportunity, they choose Dodge. I am pleased to know your choice was GM. Being the new comer, we're all anxious to know how it works out long term. Fact is, GM had to do it right considering the stiff competition they have.
As for the PSD, it beats the F-150 I had hands down, sorry 150 owners. Lets not forget however that the PSD is a different class of rig. The comparison is a commercial duty rig vs regular half ton. Noticed your comment concerning mileage, yep the Dodge is better than PSD. Sounds like yours is also better than PSD. Considering all these rigs weigh four tons or more, 17 mpg and up is amazing. They acheive this loaded or unloaded, traffic or no. Gasers should be so lucky.
With GM joining the bandwagon, the choices just became a lot tougher.
Before I forget, first recall just arrived. Beleive it's wiper motor related.
Keep on truckin.
Jerry
I went with along bed extended cab, towing package and everything else that would make the truck much more enjoyable on a long haul.
The truck arrived in January of 2001. This was our first diesel. Some friends of ours decided to do the same thing but instead of purchasing the Chevy/GMC they went with the Ford F350 SD/Powerstroke.
When my truck arrived, my friend was anxious to see what the new Duramax was all about and to see if it lived up to its reputation. After many test drives with both trucks, the Duramax/Allison was clearly the favorite for both of us in power, ride and noise. The Ford was very loud and seemed to make more noise than get up and go. It also seemed like ordering a radio with the truck was a waste of money due to the sound out of the engine bay. Apparently he said he was getting used to it.
Both trailers are pretty much the same weight wise. The specifics on the Montana are 2100 pin weight, 10k Vehicle Weight with a max of 14k full of supplies.
In May we towed with the Duramax/Allison through a very hilly section of New Hampshire were the 7% and higher grades are not uncommon. The truck pulled excellent. I could not give you the exact weight of the trailer at the time but it certainly was not empty. My wife packed it as if were were going for a six month adventure so I estimate it to be well over the base weight of 10k.
The truck tackled the hills with eagerness and certainly at 65 mph, the truck still wanted to go. Obviously, being the first big rig I have ever towed, I was not going to become the hero and do 80 mph.
As far as stopping, the brakes on the truck work excellent and is another reason we love the HD. Obviously the trailer has its own set of brakes but when you have a load such as 10-14k, good brakes mean a lot.
I cannot see were someone said that they dropped their 5th wheel on onto their truck bed without any damage. I know that if 2100 pounds fell onto my truck bed I certainly would expect damage to the truck and the trailer. Mind you that the closest part of the trailer rides 3 inches above the truck bed and is enough distance with that much weight to cause sever damage. This is one reason I lock the 5th wheel hitch whenever the trailer is mounted otherwise someone can easily pull the release lever when you are parked and as soon as you drive away, kaboom.
My experience with my new HD has been a very positive one and have not experience any problems. Like Quad said, there are many rumors floating around about this and that happening to the Duramax/Allison and seem to always be generated by those that know nothing about the truck itself. I have heard it refered to as Duramax Envy. You will also hear the same folks stating that they raced a Duramax and won only to find out that their truck is modified to the gills with perfomance options or that the driver of the Durmax had no idea that there was a race going on. In other words they passed him on the hiway.
I hope whatever truck you decide to purchase suits the job you intend it for. As for me, the D/A combination was well worth it and by far the best truck I have owned.
Am very interested knowing how yours works out. Hopefully you'll let us know. Those that have taken test drives just rave.
While my decision was PSD, I think any of these rigs beit Duramax, PSD, or Cummins are probably the best value for the money. Hopefully they all last us along long time without too many headaches.
Looks to me, from reading posts at http://www.thedieselpage.com , that most Dmax owners are happy, and it seems generally problem free. A few complaints here and there, but nothing you could call pervasive.
I don't work mine that hard. So it may not be the first to show problems. Mine also is only a regular cab, with the much less popular ZF 6-spd manual. If I can keep my foot out of it, it returns 23 mpg. Worst tank came during fast highway running, 75-80 where it returned 18.5 mpg. Some guys report only 10 or 11 when towing big trailers. My friend has a LT 2500HD Dmax/Allison CC, and tows a big trailer. He's only getting about 10.5, but he drives 85 with it.
http://home.mho.net/motronix/graphics/toybig.jpg
I have driven the PSD and Super Duty. I could be happy with any of them. I like the visibility in the SD. Of course...I love the Chevy the best!
Where abouts is that?
As far as the electronic's of the Allison transmission are concerned, one did get stuck in low gear and had to be towed to the dealer right here in Spokane. This may have been an isolated situation as I have not heard of this again.
I just talked to a couple who returned from a 7500 mile trip through Alaska pulling a 10,000 Travel trailer with no problems. They had a total of 15 k on their truck with the Duramax and Allison transmission.
I hope this package holds up as I have stated previously because I am contemplating a purchase within this next year and the Chevy/GMC with the Duramax is my leading choice at this time.
Thanks, Joe
You'll find where I ordered a F-250 V-10 4x4 Super Duty on 8-02-01 and I picked up the truck on Friday, 9-14-01. The truck was actually delivered to the dealer on Monday, 9-10-01.
Good look with your F-350 truck.
pipesmoker - Dothan, Alabama
-Eric
Loving my 2002 F-250. I'm already adding options.
So close your eyes and point your finger. Which one you're pointing at, buy it!
-Eric
Here's a link to a checklist of things to examine before you accept your vehicle.
http://www.ford-diesel.com/faq/1999faq/General-NVC.htm
My dealer's jaw dropped when I showed up with an page checklist.
Good luck with your new rig. Your face is gonna be sore tonight from smiling too much.