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Ford vs Chevy vs Dodge......again!!!!!!

modvptnlmodvptnl Member Posts: 1,352
compared three of the brawniest trucks available. To no one's surprise the near 500 inch Chevy with 5 speed auto beat the other two towing. But here's the kicker: Not only did the Ford, with the smallest motor, keep up admirably with the chev towing IT BEAT THE OTHER TWO WHILE EMPTY to 60 and was 1 MPH slower in 1/4 than the chev. As is usual the Dodge lagged with the exception of up to 50 MPH. The Ford was also over $5000 less expensive than the chev and over $3000 less expensive than the Dodge. It also got the best economy!!! I seriously considered the 8.1/Allison but the price AND NOW THE PERFORMANCE shows the Ford was the best choice!!!!

This is 2 tests now where the smaller Ford V10 beat the Dodge V10.
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Comments

  • chevytruck_fanchevytruck_fan Member Posts: 432
    I'll try to find it, it wasn't numbers It was some analyst or something the qoute was along hte lines of GM has outsold Ford in the 1/2 ton market for a long time, it was about the duramax getting more sales for gm etc. try to find it for you.
  • wpalkowskiwpalkowski Member Posts: 493
    Looked at Dodge, but kept seeing friends with all sort of non power train issues. Have a cousin who works on chevy truck assembly line, he told me to always avoid GM products in their first model year. He bought a HD2500, and is in lemon law litigation with it for multiple problems. So I bought an '01 Ford, F-350, CC, V10, LWB, with 5 spd.
    I've got the 3.73 rear end and when I put my foot into it, surprisingly, I can chirp the tires when shifting. Get a lot of astonished looks at traffic lights when I dust folks in a 23 foot long truck! Best of all, if I drive a steady 60 mph, unloaded, I can average 15 mpg on the highway. (Of course towing 7800 lbs in stop n' go can really stink ~7.5 mpg) But I really didn't buy this rig for the mileage. IT's a whole lot more fun than the proverbial "little red sports car" at staving off the infamous midlife crisis. (of course my wife now complains that the truck gets too much of my attention.)
    Only real complaint I have is an exhaust flutter/resonance at 2300 rpm, not a show stopper, but it's the really only annoyance I've had with truck in 11,000 miles. All things considered I love the V10, and the Ford Superduty.
    (The preceding was an unpaid endorsement :-) )
  • amoralesamorales Member Posts: 196
    The Chevy had the V8, the others V10's, Chevy was fastest in all areas. Wait, let me re-read the shootout. Ford is only one using SOHC engine, others are pushrods, not that it matters anymore. Dodge should use the VIPER engine, but then again a 2002 Ford Lightning spanked a VIPER sports car. hmmmm
  • modvptnlmodvptnl Member Posts: 1,352
    Did we read the same test???? The Ford beat the Chevy 0-30, 0-40, 0-50, 0-60, It also had the better ET in the 1/4. The Ford lost in the towing and 0-70, 0-80. Yes, the Ford has the smoother V10 but it gives up a HUGE 1.3 liters or 81 cubic inches. (the 444 cubic inches is a misprint, that's the 7.3 diesel. The 6.8 is 415cid)

    The GM has the waaaay better transmission(which I believe accounts for a lot of the performance diff) but the Ford came in at $5600 LESS. The Ford also got better fuel economy(if you can call it that) Add in the subjective opinion that the HD Chev in that test looks like one of those dolphins that have the deformed fore head and the Ford comes away with a clear victory IMHO!!!

    Like I've said a few times already, I considered the 8.1/Allison. But after rebates from Ford I came in at least $5-6000 less expensive. At the time I figured I'd give up some performance for the cash. After reading that test, I really didn't give up anything!!
  • amoralesamorales Member Posts: 196
    made great impact. Have owned early Fords with AOD , '83 F150 302, '94 F150 302. Trouble free in all areas, good AOD back then. These were long bed trucks with dual gas tanks.
    New F-series getting better all the time.

    Regards,

    Andy
  • chevytruck_fanchevytruck_fan Member Posts: 432
    which months is this, I must go get this so I can argue! lol
  • chevytruck_fanchevytruck_fan Member Posts: 432
    atleast GM isn't run by some libyan who screwed the whole company up and has dropped quality out of the picture.

    well I had to say something till I got some other Chevy people in here
  • modvptnlmodvptnl Member Posts: 1,352
    Have you checked the silverado/GMC threads lately??? Let's not even get in to GM's styling .....that is unless you think the asstek and ava(losemy)lunch is attractive. LOL!!!!

    The Truck Trend article is in the Sept/Oct issue.

    BTW, I like the GM HD, especially the Allison tranny, but the dually fenders and that fore head hood leave little to be desired. (at least in the color of the truck in the mag) I've seen some where that hood wasn't quite so uuuugly.
  • barlitzbarlitz Member Posts: 752
    Where did you read that the 2002 lightning spanked a viper,I've got a deal going with a 2001 lightning at x-plan price $28900. but I've got to sell my truck on my own they won't budge on trade in.I did read that in 2002 they were going to 3 valves in the 5.4 instead of the 2 they have now. I may consider waiting til 2002, 3 valves should push the lightning to over 400HP and close to 500lbs tourque.
  • amoralesamorales Member Posts: 196
    SPORT TRUCK mag, the October issue, LIGHTNING VS. THE WORLD, pg 63, most awesome article, many many Lightnings are spanking the VIPER big time, won''t tell you the outrageous ET's. I have my heart set on a HARLEY DAVIDSON F150 with the BLOWER package, coming out next year, however i plan to modify the grill, the grills on all F150's from 1997 up are hideous looking, otherwise truck ok. Am forgetting new upcoming Dodge HEMIs, too late, regarding the GM SS lightning spanker, i believe GM forgot about it, the SSR is not good contender, made to battle other SSR's, I don't see GM/Dodge of Germany coming out with a Lighnting spanker anytime soon, i guess i will have to modify my 2000 C2500 a tad more to spank a stock lightning. Already have smoked many a Dodge Dakota R/T with their relic 5.9 boat anchor engines. As you may have guessed i am loyal to none, if i like a certain truck regardless of who makes it, i will check it out. Been burned by GM mini trucks and full size. I bought last of 2000 C2500, i believe they finally made it right, 33,000 miles of trouble free operation, except for cracked windshield from a pebble, SHUCKS! Having it fixed Thursday for $300, mobile unit coming to my house to replace.

    Regards to all who love Trucks, trucking around, sport trucks, lowered trucks, dump trucks, truckers trucking off in thier
    old battered trucks. KEEP ON TRUCKING...
  • amoralesamorales Member Posts: 196
    will add needed punch to F250/F350 HD. Same with GM Vortec 8.1L V8. Anybody remember the TRUCK TREND 500hp LINGENFELTER TWIN TURBO 5.7 on pg 29 in the June 2000 issue. A 3/4 ton Chevy Silverado weighing 5500 lbs is doing 0-60 in 4.7 secs. Read it for yourselves, this old grey haired babyboomer named John Lingenfelter felt the 5.3 GM V-8 was too wimpy to upgrade, he chose a 5.7L V8 from a LSI Vette and added twin turbos. Article is exciting and makes your heart pump. Love those pushrod 5.7L vortec engines. Oh the price for the conversion was very expensive, around $30,000, you get what you pay for. No free lunches here. I know, i know, $30,000 will soup up any truck right??
  • chevytruck_fanchevytruck_fan Member Posts: 432
    what does aztek have to do with GM trucks, GM didn't try to make their 1/2tons look like some japanese car, and atleast they didn't try to copy anyone on their 3/4ton and 1 ton trucks.

    On the ford my complaint with styling of the superduties is the front has way to much plastic, the big grille just makes to much plastic visable.

    Ford used to be my #1, then the F150 came out which really turned me off, then they hired that libyan who screwed everything up. At this same time I got a Chevy pickup and fell in love.
  • modvptnlmodvptnl Member Posts: 1,352
    You don't think the engorged fore head, waterfall hood of the HD is not trying to copy Ford or Dodge??? What's funny about GM styling(or lack thereof) is they didn't want to upset their previous customers by radically changing the style from the previous truck. Then the avalanche goes 180 degrees from that. The asstek is GM, whether you consider it a truck or SUV or abortion is up to you. The bottom line is it's ugly!! I understand styling is subjective and to me the F150 in some trim levels(Harley and Lightning) look waaay better than GM's 1/2 tons. The Super Duty, even though I own one, is definitly not pretty. but it looks tough to me.

    I don't understand your libyan thing over and over????
  • michgndrmichgndr Member Posts: 160
    Ford...Dodge...ugly. nuff said.
  • chevytruck_fanchevytruck_fan Member Posts: 432
    well its obvious a looks argument is going to go no where.

    obviously the Avalanche isn't the Silverado, there are no long time avalanche buyers. You know whats funny about Ford styling since the F150 has been out GM has easily out sold Ford in 1/2 ton area. When the F150 came out GM sales jumped. Interesting note.
  • modvptnlmodvptnl Member Posts: 1,352
    seen cold hard numbers on that. I've seen total figures and the F series always seems to come out on top but I've never seen it broken down. If you have a link I'd be more than interested.

    The original topic, which we've drifted some on, is even though I lean towards Ford I thought as a package the HD was worth a SERIOUS look. The Allison option $$$ AND the $2000 rebates I got put the Ford ahead as far as price. I really knew in my heart that the 6.8L 4 speed auto should be outclassed by the 8.1/Allison. But it's not!!!

    As far as 1/2 tons go. If you get to make unfounded sales claims I get to make unfounded buy back claims: If in fact the GM trucks lead in the 1/2 ton segment it's because they count the buy backs as 2 sales!!!! LOL!!!
  • barlitzbarlitz Member Posts: 752
    I had a 99 lightning and couldn't wipe the grin off my face every time I drove her. I also was undefeated in every street race I had, especially pissed off the GT boys. Absolutely crushed any other pickup out there, had to get rid of because of work and practicality, But now I've got a company truck and my girlfriend also has a company vehicle, so now I want another lightning and I've got a dealer that will except the x-plan but will not budge on my trade in (00 ZR2) which is also a great truck especially after borla exhaust and K&N FIPK kit. IF you are interested in any Ford I would highly suggest joining EEA for $40.00, where you become an X-plan member and get Ford vehicles at 4% below dealer invoice.
  • amoralesamorales Member Posts: 196
    acquire any vehicle under dealer invoice. Tactics used by car salesman have not changes in 40 years. Internet buying has more positives than negatives. I understand dealers not willing to negotiate on specialty vehicles. Dealers are being difficult about trade-ins, they really don't want them, latest news in local papers is the VALUE is dropping quickly due to over abundance of used pick-ups and SUV's. If you wait much longer, the value will drop even more. Maybe
    E-BAY, or similar auction web may net a higher price for your ZR2.

    Good luck on getting a good price for your ZR2 and acquiring a Lightning. I am going to read up all i can on the Harley Davidson supercharged truck.

    Regards,

    Andy
    aging babybbomer hotrodder from the 60's
  • txyank1txyank1 Member Posts: 1,010
    October issue of Sport Truck than I did. I'll be the first to admit the Lighting is an awsome truck but........
    the Viper ran a 12.86 1/4, and the fastest Lighting a 12.91 1/4. Yes the Lighting was going faster at the end but that's normal when it takes loknger to get there. It's the seconds that count. And I quote from the clonclusion: "....no matter how much you modify a Lightning, it is not a Viper."
  • renonevadarenonevada Member Posts: 69
    I can get the Ford X-Plan discount through my employer anytime, but I would like to know what EEA is. I can get the GMO/GMS discount on any GM product anytime through my brother (retired Cadillac assembly foreman). Thing is, I don't own either. But I might in the future. The discounted price would be right (and no salesman hassle). Just too frugal
  • barlitzbarlitz Member Posts: 752
    Sorry its eaa, go to www.eaa.org and you can read about it.
  • amoralesamorales Member Posts: 196
    I agree with conclusion, there is no way to make a Lightning a Viper. But a 5500 lb truck with less horsepower against a Viper with stunning results was formidable. Regarding ET's and
    speeds at end of 1/4. The one who wins is the one who gets there first regardless of speed and time. Also for a $30,000 truck to go up against a vehicle at over twice the cost and come out very close is also impressive. If I buy a Viper i would want my money back if i could not out perform a Lightning by a very great margin. A 450 hp V10 pushrod Viper should have spanked the Lightning severly. It barely made a decent showing.
  • chevytruck_fanchevytruck_fan Member Posts: 432
    Just got the mag, what an awesome article, I love all three of these, of course Chevy being my favorite but its just cool to see these trucks, the cream of the crop of American automobiles. not in the mood to debate at the moment, but I will come up with something.

    Notice how when towing the Chevy did the best?
  • modvptnlmodvptnl Member Posts: 1,352
    I did notice that. And like I've said a few times: with 500 cubic inches and the BEST trans in the group, I EXPECTED it. I didn't expect the other numbers though.

    At least we can agree that it wouldn't suck to have any of those three trucks. And I'm VERY happy with my "little" V10. LOL!!!
  • txyank1txyank1 Member Posts: 1,010
    the Viper is stock and naturally aspirated, whereas the Lightning is not only supercharged but also running nitrous. But, yes considering it's weight and the fact it's a truck it is indeed impressive. I'll have to go back and check the figures on some of "Built" GM's that have been in the Mag's. Remeber the Searing Silverado? Matter of fact I think it was over at pickuptruck.com that I was reading about some trucks the Chevy "Skunkworks" Group (John Moss et al) had built.
  • txyank1txyank1 Member Posts: 1,010
    www.pickuptruck.com/html/stories/gmtoys/toys3.html
    Silverado Sportside with the 8100 and 500+ hp runs a 12.88 1/4 mile at 105 mph.
    Built Jon Moss's Special Vehicles Group at GM.
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    Your post #12. You stated,

    A 3/4 ton Chevy Silverado weighing 5500 lbs is doing 0-60 in 4.7 secs. Read it for yourselves, this old grey haired babyboomer named John Lingenfelter felt the 5.3 GM V-8 was too wimpy to upgrade, he chose a 5.7L V8 from a LSI Vette and added twin turbos. Article is exciting and makes your heart pump. Love those pushrod 5.7L vortec engines.

    I think you'd better read that article again. You're correct on the twin turbos but it wasn't on the 5.7.....it was on the 6.0.
  • txyank1txyank1 Member Posts: 1,010
    I don't recall seeing any Dodge vehicles like this. Hasn't anybody put a Viper V-10 in one?
  • ryanbabryanbab Member Posts: 7,240
    The lignefelter (sp?) 2500 he suped up ran a 4.68 (not a 4.7) 0-60
  • badrammanbadramman Member Posts: 61
    Sorry guys I don't have the mag. that this was in. I have a question about the test.

    Did they show up with a 2001 Viper?
    According to your posts it sounds like it. Wait till the '02 is available. Dodge is rebuilding it from the ground up: 500hp/510ft.lbs of torque. And I think the V10 is going to be a hemi-but not sure on that.
    However the Lightning is one hell of a sweet truck. And there's no other factory truck like it. I'll have both in my garage someday.
  • txyank1txyank1 Member Posts: 1,010
    getting closer and closer. And will probably be Supercharged! I think I read 2003, which makes it 10 years after the 454 SS left us.
  • amoralesamorales Member Posts: 196
    last sentence same page, going on to next "At first, Lingelfelter considered turbos on the stock all-ron 6.0 liter vortec engine, but he worried that some of the internals wouldn't hold up to the pressure" It goes on to say he used the LSI all aluminum engine. They used the stock 6.0 liter oil pan to clear the crossmembers. Article is very awesome. Not too shabby for $30,000 worth of mods...
  • amoralesamorales Member Posts: 196
    1992 GMC SYCLONE 4.3 280HP w/MITSUBISHI turbo. In fact in 1990 a similar truck went
    202 mph unofficially at Bonneville. It did without a counterbalance shaft or roller rockers, also do not forget the outrageous $30,000 price tag. Ford's SVO program tried to shoehorn a Taurus SHOGUN engine (3.0L DOHC YAMAHA built V6) into a Ranger GT with dismal results. Engine and tranny combo was over $10,000 .Ford gave it up, 0-60 in 7 secs was to slow...I liked the cute early Ford Lightning with the 351 Windsor and GT40 heads to make 240HP and made to smoke the 454 SS, some did, infact a Sierra 350 stepside could smoke a stock 454SS, so
    Chevy dropped it after 1993 ?? forgot year. I love Chevy and Ford trucks equally, and being somewhat standoffish about Rambo trucks. If I had a 16 year old daughter, i would buy her a Dodge R/T 5.9 250 Hp so she could pick-up her boyfriend and take him out for a coke and fries, opps nowadays its a CUP OF NOODLES.....

    PS MOTOR TREND called the GMC Syclone "TEENAGE MUTANT NINJA TURBO"
  • amoralesamorales Member Posts: 196
    Scientific calculator to one decimal place. Hope you traded in your TI GRAPHING calulator for an HP with reverse polish notation. Currently using a HP KAYAK PeeCee with Pentium 4 1.5G processor to run Pro/ENGINEER 2001. Not too shabby, like using a 2000 C2500 with 5.7 and a blower VS a 5.3 EFI 4x4 BLUE COLOR ext. cab Chevy
  • gmcgt1gmcgt1 Member Posts: 3
    GM does produce the cream of the crop in HD pickups. I have had the opportunity to do some real world comparisons against the Ford PSD, V-10, and Dodge cummings. Being an old drag racer I tend to accept the challenges I get from the Ford and Dodge boys. I own a GMC K3500 (4X4) SLT crew cab,8100, Allison, loaded with leather and all the options available. BTW, the cost of this vehicle was $35093 +TTL. Equal or less than most of the V-10's and definitely less than the Ford PSD.
    As for the challenges,
    Out pulled a F250 ex cab PSD towing a 19' trailer while I was towing a 24' 5th wheel on a 5% grade.
    Out ran a several Dodge Cummings and Ford PSD while we were empty.
    The Allison outclasses all other trannies, I was impressed in its operation while traveling thru the northern parts of Wyoming with my 6000 lb 5th wheel. I hardly had to use the brakes on down grades. passed several poor souls parked on the shoulder while there brakes were smoking.
    As for the gas mileage I'm not sure how you yahoos are achieving 15mpg with the ford v-10. My sister owns two of them and she gets 7 on one and 8 on the other in town. I would like to get better mileage on mine but 11 and 13.5 isnt bad for a truck that weighs nearly 7000 lbs. Yes it is heavy. If you ever get a chance look at the frames of these beasts, HUGE!!!
    So next time you compare performance factor in the weight of these vehicles. You must also consider towing capacity, afterall thats why I bought my beast over the Ford or Dodge. It has a 15,800 lb capacity. Over a ton more than the competition. I can make fewer trips when hauling alfalfa for my manure manufactures.
    After 10,000 miles all I can say is that it has been a pleasure to drive, very comfortable and smooth, which is a significant value over the bone jarring rides of the straight axle 4WD SD's

    My $0.02
  • amoralesamorales Member Posts: 196
    try and find a true MAGNUM engine, not a cop car 360, or 1957 circa 318 but the true magnum engines 383 and 440. The 1969 Dodge Super BEE and Plymouth GTX could be had with a 6-pack 440, you know 3 x 2 bbl carbs. Using the 426 HEMI would be an overkill. But the 440, just like in Bullett, this 1968 Dodge Charger with a four speed and a 440 and 14 tires should have smoked the weaky squeaky 390 Mustang. Opps back to the topic. Yes a 440 engined Dodge RAMBO 2500 should hold its own against the likes of Ford and GM/Chevy. The Dodge would loose of course but it would put up a good fight in the 1/4
  • txyank1txyank1 Member Posts: 1,010
    about the Cylcone and wondering how it would do with 100hp shot of Nitrous. I also often remeber how quick we tought our 265 and 283 Chevys were. The '88 Cutlass Calais Quad-4 I had would smoke'm stock. And get 25 mpg doing it.
  • amoralesamorales Member Posts: 196
  • moparmadmoparmad Member Posts: 197
    A lightning spanked a Viper that is so funny I can't stop laughing. If that is what your magazine said I'd throw it out. BTW... most number I've seen on the Viper are in the lower 12's. And if you really want to see the difference between the Viper and Lightning just turn a corner after the 1/4 mile.
    A lightning cost about $35,000 a Dakota R/T cost about $24,000. A supercharger for the Dak with a set of headers and cat back would still cost less than a Lightning,and then you would be comparing apples to apples.Mopar Action magazine set up a Dakota similar to this but it was before the R/T so they did thiers with a 318 and the article was titled "12 Seconds Over Moulan",if that gives you a clue to thier results. The "boat anchor" 360 would give you more power and quicker times.
    Any truck even a Toyota can be made to whip the posterior of any other brand if enough money is thrown at it.
    Still I respect others choices and all the manufacturers make fine vehicles.
  • txyank1txyank1 Member Posts: 1,010
    we are referring to the 1/4 mi times. And it was only a matter of a couple 10ths of a second. I'm sure we all realize a Lighting isn't going to corner like Viper. But it's still dam good for a truck!
  • ryanbabryanbab Member Posts: 7,240
    in the article it said 4.68

    also you may want to use significant figures. What i have learned the past 3 semesters is if the first number isnt a 1 then you report 3 numbers. If it is a 1 then you report 4 for the final answer. If you are using this number in a calculation you use 1 more.

    See my edumacation is paying off

    TI-89 (best in the world)
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    doesn't use reverse polish. And until you learn and use it...don't call yourself an engineer.
  • ryanbabryanbab Member Posts: 7,240
    for all my earlier math classes we were required to have these TI's

    Became used to it and love it. Does everything i need it to

    I dont like change!
  • jcmdiejcmdie Member Posts: 594
    So you don't like change. So that's why you bought a chevy!

    Sorry, I couldn't resist.
  • ryanbabryanbab Member Posts: 7,240
    Exactly

    I did like the old bodystyle (98's) and was very happy they didnt change it that much (like most people that chevy sent surveys to suggested)

    To this day i wouldnt mind a 97 or 98 chevy.
  • txyank1txyank1 Member Posts: 1,010
    I'm glad they go any farther with it. I'm still not that crazy about the looks of a Ford. Speaking of Fords, if I were a Ford Engineer I'd be ashamed every time I looked at the trim on one. After all these years you'd think they'd have come up with something that didn't look like crap after just a few months. It fades, and looks oxidozed. The black that they've used for years does it. And so does the gray around the back window and the bedrail caps on the thrucks.
  • amoralesamorales Member Posts: 196
    tell it to the road testers of the vehicle mags, i know, i know, money will buy you love, the love you get when you slap on a blower to a Dakota with a SOHC 4.7 and add over 100 hp to spank your rivals. That is what it is all about, fun, fun. I too respect the auto makers and the choices people make. How boring it would be if we all drove Dodge Ram 1500 pick-ups with circa 1957 318 cast iron V8's. Back in '57 a Plymouth Fury could be had with a 318-4V. Could smoke another Plymouth Fury with a less experienced driver, YES!! ALL RIGHT! Love those German Mopars....wait until '03 and the new Hemi OHC from Dodge, first they need to get it right...

    Ryan, you may be able to find a relic TI59 (circa 1977) programmable calculator with a RPN module. It turned the TI59 into a six level stack calculator. National Semiconductor, Sinclair,
    Novus, APF, and a few others made RPN calculators in the '70's. HP the worlds greatest calculator maker is still making them, also Algebraic logic. I took the last SLIDERULE class in 1974, a 1 unit concurrent with Chemistry. Mandatory back then. If you come out to So. California and work for some of the Aerospace companies, they will give you a HP Calculator. Not a TI. Have fun in college. Good luck in whatever engineering field you choose...

    Txyank1, don't be so hard on the Ford engineers. GM, CHrysler, Ford hire some of the best from the top schools, MIT, CALTEC, TEXAS A&M etc, only thing is their foreign co-workers have a freer hand in design to market. I blame the bean counters somewhat at the BIG 3. Itr is all about money right? making the big profits.....cutting corners sometimes....
  • ryanbabryanbab Member Posts: 7,240
    mechanical engineering

    Must be a west coast thing because i no zero people with HP calculators
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    to use a sliderule? Thought so.
  • hillhoundhillhound Member Posts: 537
    I don't know how to use one but I did see one once! My high screwell chemistry teacher, who was about 60 yrs old 15 yrs ago, actually used one while he was teaching! The rest of the faculty claimed he was an "untapped genius"!
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