5.4L Ford V-8 ( L is for LEMON )

clemclem Member Posts: 1
edited March 2014 in Ford
Ford's 5.4 liter V-8 is a LEMON. At between
2500 to 3500 miles the engine develops what
Ford is calling "piston slap". This is a loud
knocking caused by the pistons slapping the valves
under acceleration while the engine is cold. The
knocking is similiar to the sound of an engine with
a bad main bearing. I have become an expert on
"piston slap". According to my dealer, and Ford,
there is no repair. Ford acknowledges the problem
but will not call it a defect. Ford has known about
the problem since 1997 and has done nothing about
it.
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Comments

  • quadrunner500quadrunner500 Member Posts: 2,721
    Piston slap is when the piston skirt beats on the cylinder wall, not the valves.
  • markbuckmarkbuck Member Posts: 1,021
    I'd say that the piston would have to hit the valve once, and then it would be big time engine failure.
    Aluminum pistons expand at a different rate than the steel parts of your engine. Whomping on the accelerator with a cold engine is a sure way to sieze the piston to the cylinder. Maybe you cold siezed the thing a couple of times when it was brand new, and now you have too much clearance between the piston skirt and the cylinder.

    I have lots of friends with 5.4's and 6.8's that are very happy....... I happen to have bought a '99 Silverado, but had no concerns about Ford's motors, just didn't like the taurus cosmetics of the 1/2 ton ford.
  • xl_1228xl_1228 Member Posts: 29
    Clem,

    Just to let you know, the 5.4 has an excellent reliability record and I have never heard of a failure due to this knocking.
  • cdeancdean Member Posts: 1,110
    the piston slap is a wide spread problem, by like xl said, not heard of any failures yet.
  • jack38jack38 Member Posts: 18
    I also have a 97 F250 LD 5.4L with the piston slap problem. It sounds terrible at cold start and will no doubt have a significant impact on resale value. In particular because not all engines seem to develop this problem. Would you buy a truck with piston slap if you know there are many Ford trucks out there with 5.4 L engines that do not have this condition?

    Ford has done a very poor job of informing their customers in regards to this problem which adds to the frustration.
  • JMPNJOJMPNJO Member Posts: 2
    Pretty interesting. I've not heard any slap in my 5.4L EXP yet but I alway baby the engine when its cold. Especially when it's below zero which is common here in Alaska. I've only got 9,000 miles so far but lots of startups below zero (F). I guess we'll just have to wait and see. Anyone who pushs a cold engine is just asking for trouble though, regardless who the manufacture is. (Based on 20+ years engineering experience.) Lets keep this topic column alive, I'll keep you folks posted on the cold weather experience.
  • smcpherrsmcpherr Member Posts: 114
    When are you starting to hear the piston slap, right when you take it off the dealers lot or a few thousand miles later? Does the dealer do anything about it or is it an uncurable disease.
  • quadrunner500quadrunner500 Member Posts: 2,721
    This months issue of Truck Trend has a sidebar on the piston slap problem on page 92.

    It says a technical service bulletin is coming out. According to TT, the good news is a fix has been found, and that it will affect several thousand owners of Triton engines, in all sizes including the V10.

    The bad news is that the fix is major, not everyone will be getting it, and it requires engine tear-down to replace the pistons with ones made from different materials, and different tolerances.
  • jack38jack38 Member Posts: 18
    In response to the post by jmpnjo regarding piston slap in sub-zero temperatures. My 5.4 L with piston slap becomes less obvious as night time temperatures dip down to 0 degrees F and below. The range it is most noticeable is from 5 degrees F to 60 degrees. I only notice the piston slap sound at startup after the vehicle sits for 6 - 8 hours.
  • geillisgeillis Member Posts: 1
    Just when I finally did all my homework ( reading consumer reports and every bit of information I could glean from the internet) I stumble across this problem of piston slap. I live in the San Jouquin Valley of Ca. Is this also a problem in our climate? We are in the process of purchasing a F150 XLT 1999 Model for a really good price. Please let me know as soon a possible...I am already taking heat from my Chevy lovin 23 yr. son, who thinks we are crazy for even looking at a Ford.
  • quadrunner500quadrunner500 Member Posts: 2,721
    You should listen to that boy of yours, and love him will all your heart for saying you should get a Chevy.

    But seriously, I think the problem is thought to affect about 1/10 of a percent. Real enough if you are unlucky, but not terribly likely. But if you do hear piston slap, you must act firmly if you want the Ford fix, pistons and wrist pins. Not everyone is going to get them, because Ford says the problem doesn't affect everyone.
  • barlitzbarlitz Member Posts: 752
    What is this piston slap that you are talking about I have a 99 F150.I was curios as to what I should be listening for haven't heard any strange noises yet.

    thanks
    Barlitz
  • quadrunner500quadrunner500 Member Posts: 2,721
    It's when the piston skirt beats against the cylinder wall due to a sloppy fit, poor fit, loose or worn tolerance. Normally, the surfaces slide on an oil film that prevents metal to metal contact. When piston slap happens,you get an audible knock.

    You probably won't have it.
  • f220swiftf220swift Member Posts: 103
    I agree with Quadrunner, the chances of getting a bum motor is possible but unlikely. I own a 99 5.4 with 3000m and motor sounds great. I have yet too run across anyone with this problem. And give your son a few more years Geillis let him learn the hard way.
  • jason20jason20 Member Posts: 1
    I have a 98 F150 with a 4.6L that also has a slapping piston starting at about 15k miles. The dealer said the fix is coming out in September and if the engine is damaged beyond repair they will replace it. By September, my truck will have about 45k miles on it.
  • jayp2jayp2 Member Posts: 1
    I have a 97 exp.with a 5.4 with 50,000 plus miles
    this truck runs better now then when it was new
    no piston slap and better mileage.

    n.j.
  • bcoldrenbcoldren Member Posts: 2
    So Ford has acknowledged this... Finally...
    The 1999 production run has recently ended,
    and 2000s are starting up soon. So, did any of
    the 1999 engines get this "fix" while still on the
    production line? If so, that means theres a mix
    of "good" and "bad" 99's sitting on dealer lots, so
    what date of manufacture should we be looking to
    avoid (for example: pre-June1999)
    I'm assuming this fix is implemented on all new
    2000 engines coming to dealers soon?
    Any insiders out there please respond!!!!!
  • markbuckmarkbuck Member Posts: 1,021
    Probably only a small percentage of the motors had the problem pistons.

    Bet NOBODY will know the exact details until Ford announces the recall.......
  • gunsite1gunsite1 Member Posts: 2
    I just won an arbitration with Ford over the piston slap problem with my 5.4L engine. It started at about 3,000 miles and was only noticeable at startup. Later it developed into a full time noise which kept getting louder and louder. The final straw was when the engine began to idle very roughly, surge and hesitate. Ford said there was no fix for any of these problems, only that "a fix is coming out" and that nothing could be done about the surging, etc. I spent two years arguing with Ford and waiting for a fix. Even now, I'm told, the new piston fix has been discarded and they are talking about short block engine replacements. Yes, the engine still ran strong and Ford said they would cover it if it failed, but what about the reduction in value of the vehicle? Who would buy a truck with a gas engine that sounds like a diesel? For any of you who are interested, the arbitration process is fairly easy, at least in California. Keep all your repair work orders, mention the problem and have it written up at every service, whether they have a fix or not, show that you have made a reasonable number of repair attempts and state that it has effected the use or value of the vehicle. On a refund they have to pay off your loan, pay you for everything you've paid on the loan, including interest, refund your down payment and all fees (tax, tag, etc.), minus an offset for mileage up to the first time you reported the problem. If you have this problem I'd recommend arbitration...don't trust Ford to take care of you.
  • cajun17cajun17 Member Posts: 15
    How do you contact the arbitrtion person in your area?
  • brudnerbrudner Member Posts: 20
    What I cant seem to understand clearly reading the various sites is if that diesel sound I hear the first 5 or ten minutes is the piston slap. I have a 99 Lightning and it doesnt make sense that Ford would go to the trouble of putting in the Lightning pistons without doing the fix then and there. Esp on an engine that was to be supercharged . Anyway what is that diesel. Thanx to whomever can help clear this up fo me......
  • danbodandanbodan Member Posts: 23
    Does anyone know if the F150 has the same transmission as the Exploder? I don't mean to bash FORD, but all my friends that have the Explorer are on their 2nd to 3rd transmission with less than 50k on the vehicle. The sales guy told me they are different but who can believe them.
  • realtorrealtor Member Posts: 1
    I have a 99 Super Duty F250 4X4 that has a 5.4 and I now have about 20K miles on it- it runs as good today as it did the day I brought it home. I get about 14.5 mpg and it seems to have enough power for my me.
    You mentioned the "Dieseling" and also the supercharger issue. A motor with a blower will be built with looser tolerances than a naturally aspirated engine will. This may be why your engine "slaps" until the piston skirts expand.
  • barlitzbarlitz Member Posts: 752
    How do you like your truck,I just traded in my lightning for an F250 LD XLT 4x4 supercab,I've only got about 100 miles on it and I don't even miss the lightning, so far the 250 is a great. truck

    Barlitz
  • scenicscenic Member Posts: 1
    Gunsite1 - Why did you go through arbitration to resolve your dispute with Ford over the piston slap? Had you previously agreed to go through binding arbitration rather than litigation in the event of a dispute with Ford? Did you have a single arbitrator or a panel of arbitrators? Was Ford represented by an attorney at the arbitration hearing? Were you? Please advise.
  • sanantonio1sanantonio1 Member Posts: 8
    I am going to purchase a F150 Xlt Sport tommorrow, a 1999. They are offering it for $500 under invoice. Is this a fair price given that the 2000 are out any day. Also, this truck has a 5.4 V8, is this any better, worse, the same as the smaller 4.6. Will gas milage change much. the extra power is noticable, but I do not tow much. Mostly driving to and from work. Should I worry about the piston slap and advise them now. Thanks.
  • jcmdiejcmdie Member Posts: 594
    I would stay with the 5.4. Smaller engines don't always mean better mileage. Smaller engines have to work harder to do the same work. If milege is a major concern and you don't haul or tow much, should you consider a smaller truck. $500 under invoice seems fair at this time of year.
  • steveboppstevebopp Member Posts: 13
    If you don't miss the lightning, I'm guessing that you only drove it in the manner of a normal truck and didn't utilize it's handling/acceleration capabilities; or you're sedated.
    '99.5 White Lightning on 100 octane Unocal.
  • sanantonio1sanantonio1 Member Posts: 8
    Yes, a smaller truck was considered, but I like the feeling of the larger truck for safety reasons. the truck appears to be better able to withstand a front, rear or side collision better than a ranger or even the tundra. The only drawback I saw re safety was no rear headrest on the back bench seat.
  • festiva1993festiva1993 Member Posts: 7
    Does anyone know if Ford is using cast or forged pistons? Being a past engine builder, I know that looser tolerances are required when using forged pistons which will lead to some oil blow-by and clattering upon cold startups. In this type of situation, it doesn't hurt anything "except maybe your ego" but I understand your concern especially when you pay 20 - 30 thousand for a new truck!

    From what I understand the 4.0L OHV motor in the rangers have the same problem. THere is another group "4.0 liter engine problems" or something close to that on the edmunds site that talks about it too.
  • festiva1993festiva1993 Member Posts: 7
    Posting #688 is the group I was trying to think of. "Ford Ranger 4.0 Engine Problems"
  • racedadracedad Member Posts: 1
    My 97 5.4 has 100K on it and runs better than new. It has a little rattle(piston slap)in the morning on startup, but that usually settles down within a minute or less. My company also has a 99 5.4 with 44K on it. Motor is fine.
  • mikef150mikef150 Member Posts: 35
    A friend has the F250 superduty crew cab with the 5.4 V8 built sometime this summer....same problem and has been back and forth to the dealer several times trying to identify the problem.....i have not heard it yet and can't be sure it's piston slap. I told him i'd look into it on Edmunds and now see that he doesn't seem to be the only one. Thanks and will keep posted on his situation.
  • fordtough1fordtough1 Member Posts: 14
    Ford is putting new long blocks for the 5.4s with piston slap. They are fitted with .003 bigger pistons. they corrected the motors half way in to the 99 models. So far there has not been any reliability problems with the slapping motors. And it supposedly only happens to one in a thousand 5.4s
  • barlitzbarlitz Member Posts: 752
    I had a lightning built on 5/99 no piston problem as of trade in at 2300 miles, now have an F250 light duty with 5.4 built 8/99 so far no problem 500 miles.
  • meredithmeredith Member Posts: 575
    As a result of 30 or more days of inactivity....

    this topic is being "frozen." It will be archived or deleted in the next 10 days or so.

    Front Porch Philosopher
    SUV, Pickups, & Aftermarket and Accessories Host
This discussion has been closed.

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