When is it time to stop repairing and buy?
I have a 93 nissan sentra w/180k miles. ran w/o problems till 3 months ago. since then i've replaced the battery ($60), alternator ($150), and starter ($400). All done by different garages in different cities. and now it looks like the flywheel is next ($700 quote from dealer).
On one hand, $700 is nothing compared to $15000 for a new car, even with 0% apr. On the other hand, it seems like the sentra is breaking down fast.
Should i keep throwing $ at my sentra and risk hoping that the flywheel will be the last of the repairs, or buy another car?
THX
On one hand, $700 is nothing compared to $15000 for a new car, even with 0% apr. On the other hand, it seems like the sentra is breaking down fast.
Should i keep throwing $ at my sentra and risk hoping that the flywheel will be the last of the repairs, or buy another car?
THX
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the other consideration is how much you will need down on the new car and payments, and whether or not you find one you like.
i like a new car every 3 years, but have driven some "Z" cars that nickel and dimed me, but love driving them so much that i didn't care.
good luck
If you want to reduce it to a straight numbers game (and some people just get the 'itch' for a new car) you have to look at the $ you are spending on repairs in the last year ... and then add up 12 car payments. Compare those two numbers.
It's almost always cheaper to keep the clunker on the road ... as long as its unreliability doesn't start costing you business or frighten you away from driving normally.
--- Bror Jace
I would say one thing though. Bror mentioned comparing the payments and repair costs for a year. Thats good advice, but don't necesarily throw in the towel if costs are higher for one year. Thats a strong flag, but maybe during the past four years the car almost cost you nothing.
I have been in your shoes several times. I toughed it out and stuck in the money. So far I'm well ahead.
These are just things that wear out on any vehicle at some point, whether its a $75000 mercedes or a $7500 hyundai.
BUT, once cars get past those basic things, in my experience you can then get a couple more cheap & dependable years out of the car.
That said, the above is true with a well-maintained, good-running car. If there are problems like strange oil/transmission leaks, major oil burning, low compression, slipping transmission, scary rattling noises from deep within the engine, then you are risking catastrophic, high-dollar failure and you should get out while the gettins' good.
yeah, i had no problems w/the car for the past 5 years. all of a sudden, breakdown city
new car = $15000 for 36 months at 0% apr= 5000 for 12 months. so if repairs costs $5000, buy another?
i thought there was a general rule that says if repairs cost more than the car, replace it? ie: if i sold my car, i would get $1000. With the $700 flywheel, my repairs would have cost more than $1000.
update-> now i hear the warning sound from the brakes
BUT, that approach ignores your future transportation needs. Even if you sink $2,500 into a car worth only $800, it's still cheaper than buying a brand new car. See what I mean?
The only really problem is when the car's time in the shop really crimps your lifestyle ... or costs you money, dependin what business you're in.
AND, if you throw the option of buying a good condition used car which is 3-5 years old with reasonable miles on it, you have a lot of middle ground to play with. >;^)
--- Bror Jace
I think we undervalue used cars (and other machinery) these days ... and I'm partly to blame. I love "new" things and when something has lost its shine or the perfectly-fresh look, I tend not to value it as highly as I should.
I have a computer-programmer friend who makes more than DOUBLE what I make ... and I'm not exactly destitute. >;^) He's a Honda aficionado like myself, and buys Civics (and an occasional Acura Integra) but only after they have over 100,000 miles on them. He buys cars for $1,500-2,000 and drive them until they quit (hasn't happened yet) or rust out to the point where the body's structural integrity is in doubt (happened once). By my recollection, he gets about 5+ years of use from each of these cars and never puts more than about $1,200 into repairs for them during this period. You can't drive much cheaper than that. Actually, he and his wife are motoring on a shoestring budget (about $500 per year, plus the usual) even if he were to double the amount spent on repairs. Compare that to a $300+ per month lease or loan payment.
And of course, he never bothers to pay for collision insurance, an additional financial savings for him.
Unfortunately, he spends the money he saves on daily drivers restoring a 1974 Land Rover SWB. There is definitely a limit to what all of us can learn from this guy! >;^)
Anyway, I currently have a 1995 Civic Coupe DX. It's not a spectacular car in any way (except for fuel economy - 38 to 45mpg) and I intended it to last me only a couple years until I could afford a nicer (faster, sleeker) car. Well, I've had this thing for 6 1/2 years, the longest duration I've ever been with the same car, and I simply can't justify buying something new right now despite the fact that I have the money ... and then some. I've subtly modified this economy car so it's much more sporty (but NOT "ricey"!!) than many of its brethren on the road and it makes all sorts of fun sounds when I exercise its slick-shifting 5-speed and willing throttle. It has nearly 110,000 miles on the clock but always starts and runs flawlessly once warmed up. I have no idea how much longer I'll be keeping it, but if someone were to predict that I'll have it three years from now, they might very well be right.
So far, I've had the $400 timing belt/water pump service at 90,000 miles and in the next year I'll probably dump about $1,000 into it in the form of 4 new shocks (long overdue), new axles and/or CV joints (sumthin's getting noisy down there when I turn at low speed) and a new battery. I'll also have to check the tie rod ends/ball joints for wear. That seems like a lot for a car that'll be "worth" only about $2,000 at the time, but the car still looks great (no rust yet) ... and, of course, it's much cheaper than buying a new car. >;^)
--- Bror Jace
However, there are two types of problems that I used as criteria to unload:
a) Rust - It will come back, and there is nothing you can do about it.
b) Recurring Electrical problems - Very often extremely hard to diagnose and locate. Also very often an indicator that something else is wrong with the vehicle. (e.g. flood damage)
(I would have also included frame damage, but my father-in-law owns a body shop.
Other than that, it really comes down to how much you like your car. If you are satisfied with it, then keep it. A new car might have something else to offer, but I doubt that a comparable new vehicle will ever have a lower cost of ownership.
I have a '94 Toyota Paseo 5spd with 174,700 miles on it. I had all the belts change and the water pump replaced--it was leaking--at 158,000 miles. During the maintenence, the Toyota mechanic noticed that the headgasket on outside had a minor leak. Mechanic said it might last for the life of car or might go--usually during the winter---due to aluminum head and steel block. He said just keep an eye on your antifireeze level during the winters months. So as you can tell, 20k miles later I still don't have a problem. I'll keep an eye on it this winter. So, if it holds this winter, AND passes inspection & emission this coming May, I'll keep the car another year. The Toyota shop wanted a $1,000 to fix. I call around to a few shops and averaging around $450-500, effectively cutting the repair cost in half. Now if the head gasket does go this winter, it is worth fixing and running for another year or two.
I like being without a car payment. When the car does need replacing, I thinking I'm going to buy a 2yr old used car. It took the biggest hit in depreciation, thus saving you thousand of $$$. The payments will be lower for a shorter term. The car will have relatively low mileage and still be covered under the bumper-bumper warranty. Not a bad deal if you do your homework.
Leo
To further complicate matters, I have a Nissan Sentra with 151,000 miles which I've sunk over $5,000 in repair cost over the past six years. I've never had a car note and dread the thought of paying on a car monthly. To make matters worse, a used Camry will raise my insurance $600 more a year over my old Honda.
If I buy, I'll pro ably by a used Camry or Accord, although I'm tempted to buy the new Camry.
THX and Leo, you are not alone. What ever choice you make, I hope you won't look back.
I own a 1990 Nissan Pathfinder with 214,038 on the odometer currently. I bought it off lease in 1992 with 52,000 miles. Initially, I took the car to the dealer to scheduled maintenance. in 1997, after two expensive timing belt changes, I decided to purchase the service manual and go at it
myself. With the book, I manage to change my own timing belt, put a new muffler, replaced
a leaky water pump not to mention replacing the brake shoes and pads when they wear off.
Two months ago however, the transmission quitted at around 212,000 miles. I knew using the
book will not do me any good since I did not have tool to do that job. I call places such as
Aamco and their asking price for a completed transmission overhaul was $3000 + tax.
To me that was enough money for a down payment on a new car. I was laid off during that
time and did not want to take the risk of taking a car note.
I looked around in junk yards in the Pompano area and found a wrecked 95 Pathfinder with
56,000 miles. I bought the tranny right off the car for $500, found a friendly mechanic who
agreed to install the tranny for me for $250. I even lend him my service manual. He told me
it was a good idea to own the manual.
Right now I feel that I can drive the vehicle to the moon and come back. If your mechanicaly
inclined, from my own experience I found out some repairs may look scary initialy but turn out
to be quite straight forward with the service manual. My car performs as if it was back in 1992
when I purchased it. Sure I will get myself a new vehicle (probably another pathfinder), for
now it makes sense to me drive the vehicle until I get tired of it
My wife hit a curb last January in her 1991 Mazda and most of the steering system components except the power steering pump and the tie rods had to be replaced. Insurance paid 1300 for the repair. I paid about the same since you can't replace components on one side only. (Tires also needed replacement.) Total cost for repairs and maintenance this year came to 3000. Is it worth it? Yes -- for this car.
Tom and Ray at Cartalk.cars.com recommend reserving $100/month for repairs and maintenance. It really works. I put the money directly into a separate auto repair account and it helped alleviate the pain of those repairs. I only spent $365.00 the year before, which helped. Any money left over can be used for a down payment.
I had to re upholster a back seat due to damage from the sun and Armor All. When I picked up the car all of the employees in the shop complimented me on how nice the car looked and drove. One said I've seen 2 year old cars that are not as nice as your car. Another said Wow, it still looks new. That's incentive to keep that car.
Here are the criteria I use:
Is the car under 200,000 miles? It may be arbitrary, but I believe that any modern car should last that long. I have a 1988 Dodge with 170,000 and it should to that distance. Over 200,000 major repairs must be seriously considered in my opinion. I hate, to use the old cliche but you must decide if you are throwing good money after bad.
What shape are the engine and transmission in? This is critical. If I have a car worth 2,000 and have to spend 3,000 for an engine overhaul, or 2,500 for a transmission rebuild it would be junked.
Will the repair allow me to use the car for a significantly longer time? 3 years ago my air conditioning compressor on the aforesaid Dodge Aires went out. $800 repair. It was a tough decision, but I figured that I would keep it for at least another 4 years. At that rate it would have been only $200/year annualized cost. And the comfort level in the heat is a great benefit. The steering repair on the Mazda, while expensive, should not need to be repaired again. And I still have at least 80,000 before its planned obsolescence. But with only 30,000 miles to go on the Dodge I always ask whether I want to do a significant repair. This year I replaced a timing belt pulley bracket, filter injector cleaning, and vacuum hose replacements. All other items were general maintenance.
Have I saved enough money for a good down payment on a new vehicle? Can I afford the car payment? 'Nough said.
Aside from the logical factors there are clearly the emotional ones. I would generally do significant repairs on the Mazda again because it is fun to drive, is now in just like new condition, and my wife is really attached to it. On the Dodge -- well let's just say that I can tell it is feeling it's years.
I have a friend with a 1988 Dodge Caravan that generally looks good, reasonably low mileage,has a great interior except for the drivers seat, and has an overhauled motor and transmission. It needs shock replacement, air conditioner compressor replacement and refurbishing the drivers seat. But everywhere he goes, he is looking and saying I'd like this truck, or my wife would like this car. It's clear to me that he is ready for another vehicle.
It's no fun to drive an older car that you are tired of driving if you can afford a newer one.
So realistically the decision to repair or replace is a combination of financial, and emotional factors.
i own an '89 olds Cutlass Calais. I bought it used in Feb of 2000 with 44k on the clock for $4200. Everything went fine until this spring when I paid off the loan from the bank. since then I have dumped over $1700 in it for stupid stuff that should not have happened. i.e. the whold cooling system from heater core to radiator to water pump,....etc. My brakes have always been soft and the pedal goes to the floor, despite my mechanic putting new pads on the front discs every six months. I suspect a new master cylinder would resolve the problem. Now I am smelling noxious that smells like gasoline mixed with somehting else only when I'm idling when driving in the city with the car fully warmed up. Since I bought the car, I've put over 30,000 miles on it. The total repairs come to about $17.00 per mile expense of driving the vehicle. i'm switching to Honda/Acura about 3-5 years old as soon as I can afford to.
My current car, '94 Toyota Paseo--bought new, has 175,000+ miles on it. What will be some normal to be expected repairs to have on this car as it reaches 200,000 miles and beyond. Thanks.
Leo
I think that cars last a lot longer today than they used to. It used to be that 100,000 miles was a major accomplishment, today it may be 200,000 miles.
Rust will definetly kill a car, I had a 1964 Chevy Bel Air that the frame rusted out on, but the body still wasn't too bad.
In my family we have three vehicles, 2 have well over 100,000 miles on them. Neither one is a clunker. They're nice looking cars, good bodies, interiors, run well, don't leak fluids etc. Yes I have to occasionally spend some bucks on repairs, but they are worth putting money into.
But who are we kidding? The decision to fix it or sell it is usually emotional. Some 5 dollar part may disable ol' Betsy on the highway during rush hour and you'll trade her in the next day. Or you may just keep the old girl, but relegate her to second vehicle status. Personally I like to keep the wife in something pretty new and save the old vehicles for myself and the kid.
New 2000 Buick had to be serviced as the oil pan was leaking profusely at 750 miles, seems all the bolts were not torqued properly at the factory.
So. Overall, unfortunately,0n the whole (yes, many many exceptions) it still seems that American cars are not quite built with the same endurance as the Japanese! Co workers Contour tranny just died at 75,000 miles, fluid changed at 30,000 and 60,000 so go figure, mostly highway driving too.
Luckily I have a mechanic friend who has changed the brake pads and shoes and also repaired a cv boot. If not for him I probably would have had to have new rotors or this or that over the years. Always a good thing to know a mechanic.
Right now I'm putting cash away for the (inevitable) new car. In the time I've owned my car some people I know have had three or more new cars. So I have more money in the bank...but a new car is a new car....
Leo