Calling Mister Steve Crawford! Are you out there somewhere bud! Haven't heard from you in awhile. Got your ear's on dude! Come in Please! Calling all cars, calling all cars, be on the look out for...
Just kidding, haven't from you in a awhile. Are you having any success with GM lately? I know I haven't. The dealer call me about a new S/B for the shimmy by reflashing the EPROM. That was no fix. In fact it made the problem somewhat worse. I am going to hang in there for awhile longer before I go for the lemon law. Hope to hear from you later.
Well, after printing a lot of what's here and taking it to the dealer, they have ordered new B9 hubs for my truck. Hope they come in soon. 29000 miles of this has about driven me crazy. Will advise if the hubs help....
How do you get GM to fix something without a big hassle? My 99extended cab silverado has had a vibration in it since day one.(Bought in middle May)At 750 miles the local dealer balanced and swapped around the front tires. After short time, vibration and pull to right. At 2500 miles another dealer balanced all four tires. For about 500 miles rode fine then pulled to right and vibration. At about 6500 miles took back to 1st local dealer. Balanced all tires. Still pulled to right. Took it back. They aligned front end. still pulled to right took it back 3 more times for alignment and one of those times they balanced and swapped tires from side to side. Seemed to work for a while. Took a 300 mile trip and vibration is back again with a fantom pull. Took another trip of 200 miles and noticed that after about 30 miles the vibration gets worse. Took another day off and drove 100 miles to dealer that we bought it from. We had an appointment with the full understanding off the complaint by the shop service manager. He sent it down to the tire shop and had all 4 tires balanced. Claimed that problem was fixed. I then pointed out that it seemed that it was time to do something besides balance tires. He offered to order some more tires for it, but I would have to come back and spend another day getting them put on. After moaning some he offered to get the tires sent to another dealer closer, but I would have to go talk them first. I drive 100 miles home and see the dealer there. The service manager there sent me to the tire shop where they balanced the tires again and said there was nothing wrong with the tires. . (balanced twice in the same day) I asked how did he know? He then admitted that there had been a lot of tires replaced by GM for the same complaints that I had. He got the tire numbers and called the local service manager at Cheverolet. I went back and talked the service manager and he ordered another set of tires. I will have to go back and have them put on. I miss my fishing and other stuff. I bought a new truck so that I would have time to do something besides work on it. I apologize for the length of this post. J.D.Martin
I have a 99 Z71 4x4, LS, Reg Cab SWB, 3.73, Autotrac, 5.3L. My truck was built in February, sat on dealer lot until I bought it July 22. I have 600 miles on it.
Now the "good" stuff: -Oil leaking from rear of engine (looks like rear main) -Squeaking sound from under cab/rear of truck at low speed (<10MPH) probably doing it all the time but dont hear it unless going slow -65 MPH passenger and console shaking bad (I have bench seat with flip down console. -Have growl above 40 MPH (don't really bother me, but it's there)
Have appointment to take it in on Monday. I really do like my truck other than the above. I have read all the posts in this thread and have not read of anyone having GoodYear tire problems. Dealer said there was a batch of bad tires and balancing should take care of vibration. I had not noticed the problem of vibration until I hit the interstate the other day. No vibration other than arond 65 MPH.
I hope this is not a precursor of things to come. Sold a 97F150 4x4 Lariat that was never in the shop for anything the 44000 miles I had it. Will keep the group posted.
In all my juornyes to the tire shops to get my generals balanced, I heard a storie of goodyear tires that were sold to Dodge. Dodge found them to be defective and sent them back to goodyear who sold them to Chevy. I disclaim any resposibility of truth to this as it is hearsay. If one balancing doesn't do it then don't waste your time getting them balanced. Just ask how they can tell if the belts are moving in the tires, and see if they can get you some new ones.
I have been through the tire thing too (see previous posts) counting the ones on my truck now, I've had 15 tires -Goodyear Wrangler ST's- and have had them balanced and moved around on the truck numerous times and replaced two wheels. The Goodyear Dealer told me that Goodyear did indeed make a bad batch 700,000 of these tires and replaced them all with out question and with no adjustment. This does not help the 65-75 vibration-thought it did eliminate some other, more pronounced ones. It's obvious that more than one problem exists. I will advise if the B9 hubs make a difference-they are on order now.
I've got a Sierra SL, reg cab, short bed, 3.42 with some sorry Generals and had the shakes at 65-67 mph. Two of the tires (right rear and the spare) both had lateral run outs. Got both of them replaced last week with some more Generals (my favorite!) and the shakes are gone. I ordered the truck in Jan. and it was built in March. Seems like I saw in a previous post a while back that the '99s built before Jan. were the ones with the bad hubs (correct me if I'm wrong). I tried to negotiate with some independent tire dealers for an upgrade but none of them would have anything to do with the tires I have. Not because of the brand but because of the size P235/75/R16. Who would want a 16" passenger tire? Can't say that I blame them.
Yesterday the Dealer replaced my hubs (they WERE B8) with B9s and installed new shackles (rear spring hanger-nearest bumper-both sides)which have an improved bushing material but are otherwise identical. Knowing how illusive this problem can be, I am withholding judgment for a day or two til I go out of town -some serious highway miles- but I drove around town working from 11 til 4 -some interstate- and never felt the shake. It sure seems fixed.
You cannot identify whether you have B8 or B9 hubs without first removing the tire and brake rotor. The numbers are etched into the outside surface -the surface the hub would roll on if you lowered it to the ground- and are several digits long, starting with B8 or B9.
If you have Goodyear Wrangler ST tires the dealer can replace them at no charge if the last three digits in the DOT number (a date code indicating which week and year the tires were made)are as follows.
Black wall tires 029 or lower are bad
Raised white letter 059 or lower are bad
I was told that the Goodyear dealer could replace them too, but would have to adjust for mileage while the GM dealer would not.
This information was provided to me by both Goodyear dealer and GM dealer. NONE of it is speculation on my part.
Today I got a new set of Generals. They replaced all 5 of them. I drove it in the city and then took it out on the interstate for about 8 miles and I noticed a differance. There is still a reverberation when I hit a bump in the road, but it doesn't have that constant rithymic shake it did have. I will know more about it after I take a trip this weekend. The smallest little shake will get on your nerves after a couple of 100 miles. I'll let you know in a few days how it turns out. I also noticed that the new tires needed about half the wheel wieghts as the old ones did.
Mine has a one piece drive shaft. Best I can determine, the two piece drive shaft is only used on the extended cab trucks. Apparently GM wasn't comfortable with one long drive shaft longer than was needed for the reg cab long bed. On an ext cab short bed it would be 10.5 inches longer and on ext cab long bed 24.5 inches longer than the reg cab long bed. So they used two and of course added a carrier bearing. But not on any 4x4 since the transfer case eliminates the long shaft.
Well the dealer put the screws to me with GMC. After they re-flashed the EPROM they made matters worse. When I called GMC's 800 number to complain about it, I found out that the @#$%$%^& dealer told them that they can't (won't) do anymore for me. They consider the vibration (shimmy) to be within GM's guide lines (they had said that EVA was .07 and Steve mentioned that this equipment is only as good as the operator and that it was borderline). (They are not even willing to look at my hubs to see if they are B8's). Therefore, there will be no further help from GMC on this matter. There must be another way to get to see a tech rep for this. Anyway, the dealer is going to re-flash the EPROM back to the original program. Right now, I am at the point of trading it in for something else. But, before I do this I may try the other dealer in the area and see what they can do for me. I even went to the expense of having the local Goodyear dealer use his Hunter road force measurement machine to match the tires to the rim and balance them. All four tires were not that bad and it still vibrates. I may just go back to the tire dealer and have them pull the hubs and check them for the B8's. Then maybe I'll have a case.
After yesterday I am convinced that my shake is gone for good. The Hubs and rear shackle bushings(I think the hubs did it) took care of it. I've been through 15 tires, several re-balances and yes even the Hunter road force optimization all to no avail. I got pretty much the same treatment as Knobby. Here's your next step Knobby. Print some of these posts-I think you already did-and go back to the Truck Sales Manager. Tell him what you've been through. Tell them you want some action or you are going to the local news media and that you are going to make the information available to the local Ford and Dodge Dealerships. I was in the same situation as you-
1-They would not even acknowledge a problem. 2-Said it was a truck and seemed normal to them. 3-Told me I was being too picky. 4-Told me no TSB existed on the problem.
When I took the approach described above, the Service Manager spoke with his rep at GM and called me back two days later. Asked me to come in so they could just look at the hubs. Identified them as B8. One day later he called again and said he had them.
After more than seven months I finally got my solution. Get the sales department involved. Those guys know what it would do to their paycheck if it became common knowledge a problem existed and they weren't even trying to help.
Deja Vu. There must be an echo in here somewhere. This is some of what I have been getting from both my present dealer and GM all along. I am thinking of trying the other dealer in the area and see if he can do something before I go ballistic with this. However, I did talk to the service manager and I think I have talked him into at least pulling the brake rotors off to see if I have the B8 hubs. I'll find out later when I have to return to see him.
Got new rear spring shackes and bushings,truck seems to give more on rough roads, but passenger seat and cup holder still vibrates. Service Rep would not check for B-8 hubs, I did this myself and found out that were B9C28Y.truck was built 4-99 in Fort Wayne . So far I have got new shocks, new Michelin tires, which I payed for, and shackles and bushings.I have called the GM 800 and got a case number, called them again and got no satisfaction, I don"t think GM intends to do anything more.
Can't see number with rotor in place. The rotor and hub are two different parts now. Remove the wheel, remove the round spring clips -about three- from around the studs (just break then off and throw away, only needed for assembly line) dismantle the brake caliper and pull the rotor off. The surface around the outside of the hub -the surface that would touch the ground if you lowered it- is where the number was on mine. This surface is not visible until you remove the rotor as it recesses back into the rotor close to an inch. Probably shouldn't try this unless you've done a front (disc) brake job before, but it's not that different from the ones I've seen in the past except now you don't have to disassemble and re-pack the wheel bearing. It's permanently lubricated and not involved in this procedure.
What size Michelins did you get. I thought they didn't make a tire to match the original equipment tires for the Silverados or Sierra. Did the Michelins make any difference? I have been thinking about changing my Goodyear Wrangler ST for a Michelin.
Well it's been a few miles since I had the new tires. Seems that I don't have the rythmic bounce on the freeway that I did have, but now that it's not there, I have noticed that when I hit a bump(usualy the small ones) the tires seem to keep bouncing. I have run out of time to do anything else to it until Dec. I gues for now GM has won the battle. Maybe by then they will have a definate answer for it. I hope the word dosn't get out to much, becouse I might need to sell it.
I want to check my 2wd front hubs if they are B-8 or B-9 but after removing the tire I see things have changed a bit from my prior chevy trucks. It looks like the caliper and the caliper bracket has to come off to get the rotor off the hub. 2 bolts hold the caliper bracket ,what would I retorque these to upon reassembly? Or will the rotor come off after removing just the two Torx 55 pins and the caliper leaving the caliper bracket(receiver)?
I'm not sure whether the rotor will come off with the caliper bracket still in place. You can try it and you might get the rotor to move out enough to view the edge of the hub where the number is. The Chevy dealer did mine with me looking over their shoulder but I was also talking to the Service Manager at the same time-was more interested in seeing the number than the disassembly. Can't help you with the torque values either. After I showed them the printout of these posts, they agreed to pull it apart just to have a look. I wasn't there but about 45 minutes tops. Maybe you could make similar arrangements.
This problem does apply to 4x4's. The original hubs that were ordered for my truck were the 4x4 version hubs--by mistake. The only difference appeared to be a splined hole through the center for the axle/shaft that drives that wheel. The service manager and tech who worked on my truck were thinking that maybe GM had come out with a universal hub that would work on 2wd's and 4x4's, but after a phone call, they were told to obtain the proper ones and didn't use the ones with the splined opening. hope this helps.
Ok, so there can be B8 hubs (old) on a 4x4 but has anyone reported the vibration problem due to the hubs on a 4x4 ? Maybe the B8's work OK on 4x4's?
Also - any ideas as to what build dates may be affected ? I've got a 12/98 build, 2wd with no vibration - may just pull the rotors at the next tire rotation for fun and see . . .
I don't think the B8's on 4x4's are reporting this - based on a lot of scrolling and re-reading it only looks like a 2wd problem. Maybe some sort of dampening effect from having a drive shaft inserted into the hub.
How about the bearing in the hub. Is it a non-serviceable, cartridge type? Are they ball or tapered roller bearings?
If a B8 hub bearing had a cylindrical outer race, it would be non self-aligning. If the outer race had a radius, like a heim joint, it would be self aligning. I can't think why you would want a self aligning bearing on your spindle. Wheel would flop around. But "self centering" was how Steve Crawford described the B9 versus B8.
May have answered this myself. There are two bearings for the hub, inner and outer. If one was self aligning, the other would probably be fixed (non SA). Maybe there is binding in one type, or runs with a different preload. Still doesn't explain why the B8 doesn't vibrate in my truck unless it is a defect not affecting all.
About 5-6 weeks ago my dealership gave up on my vibration problem and asked Chevy to buy back my Silverado 2wd SB 4.8L 3:42 LD. They also had another similar truck in which they had gone through various attempts to fix with the assistance of GM techs and could not. Since they were buying the other truck back and mine did not improve after the first couple of attempts, they decided to buy it back too. Does anyone have any info on how long this process takes? My dealership hasn't been much help. They keep blaming it on Chevy.
Have not ever heard of this but keep me inform- ed. I have a 99 Xcab Z71 that has had a "clank" in the rearend, first I was told it was spare tire carrier, then tailgate, then all trucks make that noise then just yesterday they replaced the rear springs. That took care of it for now but I don't have much faith in service dept. If noise comes back, I will try the same. Do they just payoff your truck, give you another vehicle or what? Please keep us informed.
Thanks for the help obearden I have a 4x4 with a vibration at 65 mph not sure if that might be the problem. gl3 the clunk in the rear end did it do it everytime you took off from a dead stop? Because that is what mine is doing.
No it happened whenever I drove over a small bump/pothole. You could really hear it when going over a "speedbump". Dealer installed new leaf springs yesterday, so far no more noises going over bumps. I know the noise you are talking about. That's one of my first complaints. The dealer installed an "Anti Clunk Seal" (spacers in the rearend) didn't help. Others here have suggested gear backlash and/or torque convertor. It happens during acceleration and shifting up or down. Sounds real nasty. I figured I'd get one thing fixed at a time. You're not alone. Hows your windshield molding? Any rattles at speed? Hope this helps
I am not going to bash my Chevy, but I think it is important that problems with our vehicles are discussed here. My new Z71 4x4 has been at the dealer since Monday having the rear main seal, oil pan gasket and other leaky things fixed on my 5.3L, the service manager wants the owner of the dealership, himself and me to meet in the morning to discuss this and other problems (vibration, squeaking under cab, etc.) I was going to the Outer Banks of NC next week. The loaner they gave me to drive (a 99 Chevy Cavalier) aint 4WD, so its not going to do me much good. The service manager suggested that they would give me a 4WD to take to the beach. Guess I will find out tomorrow. Anyway, my truck has less than 800 miles on it, don't give me a good feeling that I am having this much trouble this soon.
I'm not exactly sure how the process works. The Dealer began the paperwork process over 5 weeks ago and told me that Chevy would contact me "soon" to work out the details. From what I understand they will either let me substitute a new truck and leave my financing as is or buy it back. I really like the ext cab. No vibrations in the ones I have test drove. However I bought the one I have now for about $800 less than invoice (advertised special of the week deal). I took a little less for my trade since I was getting such a good deal. The dealer has offered $100 over invoice on a new 1999 or 2000. This would leave me $900 short. If Chevy makes up the difference, I'll go for the ext cab. If not, I haven't made up my mind yet. A couple of other similar trucks I have driven (1999) felt like they had a vibration too. One truck appeared okay (v6). It's hard to find reg cab 2wd. I'll let you know how it works out.
my truck came with Generals P255 70 R 16 tires I traded for Michelin LTX- MS same size for 40 bucks a tire Michelins seem to be a little softer is about the only difference. This dealer also sold Generals
max. pres is 35lbs. max load is2271lbs, sidewall2ply polyester, tread 2ply polyester, 2ply steel. I"ve been running 30 lbs. dealer said tread life with proper rotation would be double of Generals , but I don"t think tires are causing our problem
I called GM and complained,they took my case no. and put me on hold while they called my dealer, he said no fix in sight he knew of, told her I might want to get a second opinion, so i took it to another dealer service rep agreed it had a vibration, but did"nt know what to try to fix. took to a preformance shop, they test drove and said it had a vibration, suggested they put on Rancho shocks if I would pay the labor for trial to see if they helped, but the shocks are not available for 99"s yet, so its back to the dealership Monday, Salesman looks the other way when he see me come in, Service Rep is not thrilled either. the thing that kills me is I traded a 96 Silverado that was prefect in every way
gl3, Yes I did have a windshield rattle but fixed it a few weeks after I bought it in dec. I work in a bodyshop it took me a few test runs with electrical tape on different spots to get it then I sealed down the rubber. Also have leather seat ripping on the seams (6500 miles) the dealer has a new cover for me, but have not had it installed yet.
They are B9A10X to be exact. The caliper and caliper bracket had to be removed before the rotor comes off the hub. The two caliper pins have torx 55 heads and the two bracket bolts take an 18mm socket and are quite tight.. Lost a little skin off my hand when the bolt broke free but was happy to see the B9 . My 2wd was built 1-99 at Ft. Wayne Ind. My dealer has ordered leaf springs to correct my launch shudder. scraw wrote describing this fix in post #247 ,#241 in topic #547( 99 gmc sierra). I will update after they are installed.
I finally got through to someone at GM. They have apparently been waiting on me and my dealer to find a replacement truck and give them the VIN # for over a month. My dealer has been telling me they have been waiting on GM. Anyways, it takes about 7 to 10 days to process the paperwork after I find another truck. There is no charge for mileage on the existing one. If I upgrade I can either pay the difference or refinance. If I refinance, I think I will loose the interest I have paid over the last 5 months. Now I just have to find another reg cab 2wd without a vibration.
Comments
Just kidding, haven't from you in a awhile. Are you having any success with GM lately? I know I haven't. The dealer call me about a new S/B for the shimmy by reflashing the EPROM. That was no fix. In fact it made the problem somewhat worse. I am going to hang in there for awhile longer before I go for the lemon law. Hope to hear from you later.
J.D.Martin
Now the "good" stuff:
-Oil leaking from rear of engine (looks like rear main)
-Squeaking sound from under cab/rear of truck at low speed (<10MPH) probably doing it all the time but dont hear it unless going slow
-65 MPH passenger and console shaking bad (I have bench seat with flip down console.
-Have growl above 40 MPH (don't really bother me, but it's there)
Have appointment to take it in on Monday. I really do like my truck other than the above. I have read all the posts in this thread and have not read of anyone having GoodYear tire problems. Dealer said there was a batch of bad tires and balancing should take care of vibration. I had not noticed the problem of vibration until I hit the interstate the other day. No vibration other than arond 65 MPH.
I hope this is not a precursor of things to come. Sold a 97F150 4x4 Lariat that was never in the shop for anything the 44000 miles I had it. Will keep the group posted.
everyone I have driven has a shimmy at 65 MPH is this common ?
You cannot identify whether you have B8 or B9 hubs without first removing the tire and brake rotor. The numbers are etched into the outside surface -the surface the hub would roll on if you lowered it to the ground- and are several digits long, starting with B8 or B9.
If you have Goodyear Wrangler ST tires the dealer can replace them at no charge if the last three digits in the DOT number (a date code indicating which week and year the tires were made)are as follows.
Black wall tires 029 or lower are bad
Raised white letter 059 or lower are bad
I was told that the Goodyear dealer could replace them too, but would have to adjust for mileage while the GM dealer would not.
This information was provided to me by both Goodyear dealer and GM dealer. NONE of it is speculation on my part.
Extended cab?
Axle ratio?
Suspension?
Many thanks.
Took Delivery on Dec 30, 1998. Don't know Born on date.
Still no shake all day today, but all in town. Tomorrow will tell the story, 275 miles round trip.
was needed for the reg cab long bed. On an ext cab short bed it would be 10.5 inches longer and on ext cab long bed 24.5 inches longer than the reg cab long bed. So they used two and of course added a carrier bearing. But not on any 4x4 since the transfer case eliminates the long shaft.
1-They would not even acknowledge a problem.
2-Said it was a truck and seemed normal to them.
3-Told me I was being too picky.
4-Told me no TSB existed on the problem.
When I took the approach described above, the Service Manager spoke with his rep at GM and called me back two days later. Asked me to come in so they could just look at the hubs. Identified them as B8. One day later he called again and said he had them.
After more than seven months I finally got my solution. Get the sales department involved. Those guys know what it would do to their paycheck if it became common knowledge a problem existed and they weren't even trying to help.
Deja Vu. There must be an echo in here somewhere. This is some of what I have been getting from both my present dealer and GM all along. I am thinking of trying the other dealer in the area and see if he can do something before I go ballistic with this. However, I did talk to the service manager and I think I have talked him into at least pulling the brake rotors off to see if I have the B8 hubs. I'll find out later when I have to return to see him.
Also is there any new info on the 1500 rpm vibration?
And I don't believe you have to remove the rotor to identify it as B8 or B9? Just the wheel, right?
The rotor and hub are two different parts now. Remove the wheel, remove the round spring clips -about three- from around the studs (just break then off and throw away, only needed for assembly line) dismantle the brake caliper and pull the rotor off. The surface around the outside of the hub -the surface that would touch the ground if you lowered it- is where the number was on mine. This surface is not visible until you remove the rotor as it recesses back into the rotor close to an inch. Probably shouldn't try this unless you've done a front (disc) brake job before, but it's not that different from the ones I've seen in the past except now you don't have to disassemble and re-pack the wheel bearing. It's permanently lubricated and not involved in this procedure.
Did the Michelins make any difference? I have been thinking about changing my Goodyear Wrangler ST for a Michelin.
hope this helps.
Also - any ideas as to what build dates may be affected ? I've got a 12/98 build, 2wd with no vibration - may just pull the rotors at the next tire rotation for fun and see . . .
If a B8 hub bearing had a cylindrical outer race, it would be non self-aligning. If the outer race had a radius, like a heim joint, it would be self aligning. I can't think why you would want a self aligning bearing on your spindle. Wheel would flop around. But "self centering" was how Steve Crawford described the B9 versus B8.
May have answered this myself. There are two bearings for the hub, inner and outer. If one was self aligning, the other would probably be fixed (non SA). Maybe there is binding in one type, or runs with a different preload. Still doesn't explain why the B8 doesn't vibrate in my truck unless it is a defect not affecting all.
ed. I have a 99 Xcab Z71 that has had a "clank"
in the rearend, first I was told it was spare tire
carrier, then tailgate, then all trucks make that noise then just yesterday they replaced the rear
springs. That took care of it for now but I don't
have much faith in service dept. If noise comes
back, I will try the same. Do they just payoff
your truck, give you another vehicle or what?
Please keep us informed.
gl3 the clunk in the rear end did it do it everytime you took off from a dead stop? Because that is what mine is doing.
bump/pothole. You could really hear it when going
over a "speedbump". Dealer installed new leaf
springs yesterday, so far no more noises going over bumps. I know the noise you are talking
about. That's one of my first complaints. The
dealer installed an "Anti Clunk Seal" (spacers
in the rearend) didn't help. Others here have
suggested gear backlash and/or torque convertor.
It happens during acceleration and shifting up or
down. Sounds real nasty. I figured I'd get one
thing fixed at a time. You're not alone. Hows your
windshield molding? Any rattles at speed? Hope this helps
Generals
My dealer has ordered leaf springs to correct my launch shudder. scraw wrote describing this fix in post #247 ,#241 in topic #547( 99 gmc sierra).
I will update after they are installed.