Honda Pilot 2003 through 2005

ukkonen7

Just today I tested the sensitivity of the ABS on our new 2004 Pilot. It was old ice and the temperature was in the 20's. I found I could feather the brakes without the ABS kicking in. The results felt very acceptable considering a heavy vehicle moving on an icy surface. The tires are the Goodyear's. On ice, I don't think the tires make much difference. It is nice to see Honda has done some adjusting to the ABS sensitivity.

hansienna

Many people in the "rust belt" get 4 studded snow tires. Studded tires make a difference when there is ice under the snow. It may be a hassle to change all 4 tires twice a year but studded tires are the way to go if they are legal in your area.

markjenn

As others have alluded to, don't base any tire judgment on only one (or even two or three) experiences driving in slick conditions. Conditions vary radically over short periods of space and time. You need to get some averaging time to know what is the tire and what are the conditions.

- Mark

dski

I agree with that comment. You really can't make a judgement with Ice. No tire on it's own can handle that.

Having said that, I do agree that the braking and wet traction has much to be desired. I'm not an expert and don't know if its all about these tires although the poor wet traction is a good indicator.

One aspect to the Goodyears credit: I'm at 24K on my Pilot and the Tires still look new. That could be a good news bad news thing though. If I find they need to be replaced because of snow, I'll be buying new tires well before the tread life is used up.

Drew

03lxv6

Anybody knows if 05 P will have the curtain air bags?

rickpct

Hi,

I read in consumers report that the Pilot has 2 towing capacities - 4500 and 3500. According to CR - the boat towing capacity is 4500, all other is 3500.

Makes no sense to me. Has anyone towed with the Pilot. I've got a 3000# sailboat - I have a mooring so I would only tow 2x per year.

Thx.

Rick

markjenn

The rationale behind the different towing ratings with the Pilot is that boats are more aerodynamic which reduces vehicle loads enough to allow a higher amount of weight. I don't know if this would apply to a sailboat though which typically sits up higher.

Whether you want to press the 3500/4500 lb limit would depend on a lot of factors: length of trip, anticipated speeds, grades, road conditions, type of trailer, brakes on the trailer, how heavily the vehicle is loaded with other cargo, etc. For a short trip at low speeds, I'd feel fine pressing the limits, but I wouldn't want to drive across the country up against the limit.

Personally, if I was towing a 3K lb sailboat any significant distance (especially if this weight doesn't include the trailer), I'd look long/hard at a larger SUV.

- Mark

wmquan

Anybody knows if 05 P will have the curtain air bags?

Honda is notoriously tight-lipped about model changes, especially this far in advance.

Honda has announced that eventually all of its vehicles, and all trims, will have ABS, VSA, and side curtains. But it won't happen all at once.

Since the MDX got side curtains for 2004, it's quite possible the Pilot will get them for 2005. But that's pure speculation.

rickpct

Mark,

Thx for the input. The tow distance would be less than 2-3 miles on local roads - towing from the ramp in town to my house for winter storage.

I'd rather not get a larger SUV - have had an expedition in the past - due to very poor gas mileage, poor handling, size, etc. Pilot seems to be just the right size - although I just have been reading about the Volvo XC90 - 268HP andd 5000# tow capacity. I'd opt for the Volvo but hear the 3rd row seat is extremely tight.

Rick.

markjenn

Rick, I'd be nervous as a cat in a room full of rocking chairs about the XC90 (and the Touareg). Wait at least a year on these new designs. The Europeans have yet to produce any new SUV that has anything but absolutely dismal reliability in the first year. Volvos in their first year have a particularly bad record.

For towing a few miles, the Pilot should be peachy, even if you're right up against (or even slightly exceed) the tow ratings. Go for it and take your family on a nice luxury vacation with all the money you'll save.

- Mark

sbcooke

After reading about long braking distances on this board I took my '02 MDX out in this weekend's snow to test the ABS. It works well. I did have to brake harder once the ABS kicked in order to stop faster. It is hard to say how much impact the Michelin tires had, however the ABS worked well and pumped the brakes very quickly. I even tested it while turning around a corner, worked great.

I know the MDX isn't a pilot, but they are almost mechanical twins, so I would think the problems listed previously are one-offs.

markjenn

"I did have to brake harder once the ABS kicked in order to stop faster."?

I think this might be perception. With most ABS systems, once you've reached the point where the ABS system is cycling, pressing harder on the pedal does absolutely nothing as the ABS computer is regulating the brake pressure, not you.

- Mark

sbcooke

You are probably right, however there is a lot of reverse pressure on the pedal when ABS engages. If I don't press harder I am letting off the brake. I can actually feel the pedal undulate with the braking so I press a little harder instead of coming off the brake (which feels correct) to make sure I am getting maximum stopping power.

markjenn

You're using the right technique: Anytime you want maximum braking, you should press as hard as you can, let the ABS do its job, and continue steering the vehicle around any obstacles.

But I doubt it is actually doing any reverse pressure - the pedal kick is just the ABS system telling you that it is engaged. It is a driver's natural reaction to ease off the pedal when it is kicking back and I think this is what you're feeling you have to overcome. Driver's ed classes these days have to consciously train drivers to continue pressing. In any event, you're doing the right thing.

Perceptions are weird. Try going up a steep residential hill sometime with the cruise control engaged. You will absolutely swear that the car is accelerating up the hll even though the speedo will show the speed to be steady or slightly declining.

- Mark

sbcooke

OK...Hopefully the ABS stopping issue that people are reporting with the Pilot are just individual cases and not a vehicle wide issue.

Reading those posts made me concerned that the function on my MDX might not be up to par, however in my opinion it seemed to work great.

rickpct

Hi,

The more I read about the Pilot, the more I see it as a great combination for what I need in a car. Only one area I wanted to explore - transmission. Does the Pilot use same gearbox as the Odyssey? I've heard horror stories about the Odyssey transmission (and have heard from some friends of mine who are having problems with their Accord transmission).

Any long term updates from Pilot owners? Thanks in advance.

BTW - Mark - the $ i would save on Pilot v. XC90 would definitey pay for some nice boat upgrades!

Rick

cwashi6

Just bought a 2004 Pilot EX-L. I was looking at the maintenance schedule. Honda recommends oil changes every 7,500 miles. Is this correct? I thought oil should be changed every 3,000 miles. Any opinions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

berob

I'm considering buying an '04 Pilot with DVD. A friend of mine who owns a Pilot without a DVD says that when he was looking at them, he found the positioning of the DVD screen quite awkward. He said it was positioned too far overhead and required that he strain his neck looking up to view it. He ultimately decided on buying a portable dvd player that attaches to the front seats. Does anyone else share his opinion or have any thoughts on the positioning of the dvd? Thanks in advance for any help.

robr2

It's probably 7,500 for normal service and 3,750 for severe service.

For the most part, the 3K oil change interval is no longer a valid reference.

robr2

Some people have found that a lower viewing level can cause them nausea as they lose the peripheral outside reference.

YMMV.

jimcorban

When I was researching the Pilot, I distinctly remember reading something about a hill descent mode. Now that I have one, I can't seem to find out anything about it, either on the web or in the owner's manual.

Does anyone know anything about this?

clpurnell

as far as I know the pilot does not have this feature.

regnideir

Hill descent, No.
Grade logic, Yes. Its more for descending mountain roads rather then steep off road slopes.

dski

I did get the DVD option. The kids don't complain much about the screen but I hate the compicated controls. Switching back an forth from one function to another turns off the Rear speakers. You have to play around with things to get everything working the way you want and it's extremely annoying. I have learned how to override it but it still requires a lot of distracting fidgiting.

If I had it to do over, I would have gone with the Nav sysytem for the money. I found an AWESOME after market Portable DVD system. You can find it in Sam's now. It's a completely self contained unit. The screen is larger and for the car.. its JUST a screen. The Disks go right into the top of the Screen. Then, it has a stand and snap on speakers so you can use it in your home as a desk top unit.

Check it out as an option to the factory unit. I think you'll be glad you did. BTW.. This unit will save you about $500 vs. Honda's factory DVD with a larger screen that hangs between the seats and more flexibility to use outside the car.

Good Luck
Drew

sunangela

Is pilot too wide to park in a tight spot, or in a regular-size single garage?

I drove the CRV and am sure the it is a fine car, but its
1) doors look paper-thin
2) tires are skinny
3) rollover assessment got only three-star (NHtSA)

I also drove the toyota highlander, its same perfect size as CRV but toyota wants an extra $10,000.

frey44

I am new here. Currently own a Forder Ranger 4x4 EXT (a miserable experience..but that is for another board). I need to tow an aluminum bass boat (about 1600 pounds total). I have noticed Honda does not seem to equip pilots with a class I or class II hitch from the factory (at least here in Ohio). Can one order this from a Honda dealer ? Is it all prewired for a trailor ? Has anyone here installed such a hitch themselves ? I am looking at either trading in my Ford for a Chevy Tralblazer, a Pilot, or a Toyota Tundra or Highlander...a very difficult choice as I think they are all nice rides. NO MORE FORDS for me, even though the Explorer looks like a well designed vehicle. Thanks.

sbcooke

I went by a local dealer today. There were 4 used pilots on the lot. Either those were lemons and returned/sold back or is Pilot availability starting to get better?

qbrozen

not sure i understand the choices. are they lemmons or is availability good? what does availability of new pilots have to do with used?

well, anyway, its easy to get any cars used if you are a dealer who goes to alot of auctions. even super rare vehicles can be had for the right price. And reasons for these cars showing up used can be widely varied. Maybe they weren't making their payments on their new vehicle. maybe they decided an odyssey would be better when they found out their 3rd kid was on the way. maybe the owner died in a horrible hair-cutting accident and the estate executor sold the pilot back to a dealer. maybe ...... fill in the blank.

my3kids

The DVD screen has a couple of positions. If you push past the first place it stops, I think there are 2 more. My kids like it pushed as far back as possible. None of mine have ever complained about the angle.

sbcooke

good one. Let's hope it wasn't a horrible hair cutting accident.

I am just comparing to my MDX buying experience...at the time, used MDXs with immediate availability were going for more than new. The Pilot has been very hot and to see several used sitting on a lot was surprising.

qbrozen

i did hear that about MDXs somewhere at sometime. When the Pilot was new, I also heard reports of used ones being sold for the same as new. If anybody bought a used Pilot for new MSRP, then that person is pretty silly. If anyone bought a used MDX for MORE than new, than that person is downright self-hating. Hopefully, on both counts, it never happened.

just for comparison, though, does anyone happen to know how many MDXs were produced the first year?

Of course, this won't tell us much because you also have to consider the fact that the Pilot has come to the market rather late in the SUV craze. Plus you need to factor in that it would be difficult for dealers to gouge on new ones because most shoppers would probably move up to the MDX if the Pilot price was market up beyond MSRP. So that keeps the new Pilot prices reasonable. That, in turn, keeps used prices reasonable. And Honda is making a pretty large number of Pilots as far as I know. Then again, that never affected the amazingly strong resale value of Odysseys. Maybe we should look at Odyssey production numbers, too?

sbcooke

I thought the MDX was around 50K the first few years. Then with the new US plant they were going to up the numbers of both the MDX and Odyssey...then they added the pilot. The reports I saw online reported about 180,000 MDXs and Odysseys out of Canada.

qbrozen

given all that i mentioned above, plus the fact that they made about twice as many pilots the first year as first year MDXs .... well, you get the idea.

But, as long as Honda doesn't flood the market with Pilots in much the same way Ford does with Exploders (for example), then resale should hold strong. And, based on Honda's history, they won't flood the market. I think, and correct me if I'm wrong, they are also shooting for 180K pilots this year.

OH, and just thought of something else I should have thought of before. What if those used Pilots you saw are from folks trading them to get the '04. I have read postings from a couple of people who have done that.

sysadmin1

I do have a question for those that have driven in snow so far...

While at dlr to test drive the Pilot, the one I wanted was crammed in the back of some others. The sale guy decided to back it up towards the woods, and muscle it over a snowbank to get it out. When he started to the snow, the underside of the front rubbed snow and was resisting, thus the two front tires were spinning in the snowbank. He had to back up and give it a few more "running" starts to get it to plow through. THe two back tires were on hard dirt ground, and the fronts were spinning in the snow. Does this seem odd? I would have thought that since the fronts were spinning the awd would have kicked in since the backs were on dry ground and push ahead. I am guessing if he put the truck in D1 or D2 and kept the speed slow and hit the VTC switch or whatever it is, that that might have forced it into AWD and plowed ahead, but I was baffled why it didnt do it itself. While the two fronts were sitting in the snowbank, he gassed it and they just spun wildly.
Am I missing something?

torpman

With a fresh layer of snow from the previous night, I went up to the local ski resort to check out the handling of the Pilot and Integrity's. I must say that I was pleasantly surprised with the traction, handling and braking of the vehicle. The car was very steady with no discernable slipping, sliding or spinning of the tires. I was traveling at a fairly slow speed (25 mph or less) for most of the time, and I would describe the road surface as hard-packed snow.

Although I was considering replacing the Integrity's, I have decided to stick with them for the time being. Since we have very moderate snow in our area and my snow driving will be pretty much confined to going up to the local ski resort, the Integritys should be more than sufficient.

I will also add that on our most recent 800 mile road trip over Thanksgiving, the ride was very quiet and smooth. Of course our 96 Oddysey was extremely noisy, so my point of reference may be skewed.

toca

I would have thought the same. Did you ask anyone at the dealer?

sbcooke

The trick is to use the VTM lock. I have had several situations in my MDX coming over a snowbank into my driveway where the fronts couldn't pull us through and the auto AWD doesn't route enough to the rear to move. Engaging the VTM lock would pull us right through.

sysadmin1

Today i found a hill that had a few inches still of snow and gunned it, and it pulled right up fine. I havent tried the vtm lock yet but am sure it will do well in deeper situations.

jay_24

AWD that can't put enough power to the rear wheels doesn't sound like much of AWD. The AWD system should be able to route enough power to spin both front and rear wheels, given enough gas pedal input and slippery conditions. Having to push a button sounds like good ol' part time 4x4.

--jay

varmint

Sysadmin1 - Was the Pilot you drove completely prepped, or was it still covered in "shipping material"?

When a vehicle is shipped from the plant to the dealer, they often disable the electronics. I once test-drove a CR-V that didn't have dash lights and a radio because they hadn't finished prepping that particular vehicle. The VTM-4 system uses electronic sensors, so it is possible that the dealer simply hadn't hooked everything up.

qbrozen

FYI, the push button on the Pilot is only there to lock in the AWD when you want to (and even then it only works if you have the shifter down in 2nd or 1st). The Forester we had did the same thing, except with no button. In the Forester, if you shifted down to a lower gear, it locked the AWD 50/50 rather than its typical 90/10. I actually appreciate the addition of the button in the Pilot because I can shift to a lower gear and still be running FWD instead of AWD if I don't use the button. On the Forester, downshifting forced you into a 50/50 split.

sysadmin1

The Pilot was parked in the back of two rows of new vehicles, had all the shrink on vehicle and all the seats and interior were covered in plastic. So they def. had just gotten it off truck. If that is the case, that the AWD was disabled it would make sense. I have pushed ith through some piles and snowy streets here and around corners and it hooks up just fine. Since the AWD is electrical, probably just pulling/installing a fuse would enable it. Sounds like a good explanation to me.

Thanks!!

jay_24

first - apology for slight off a honda topic.

Subaru AWD does not depend on gear selection or speed. Its more complicated and differs slightly from models, but basically:

Subaru automatic trannys are 90/10 under normal conditions. Power shifts to the rear wheels when needed at any speed or gear (electronically controlled). More than 50% or the power can be directed to the rear wheels.
Manual trannys are 50/50 and are mechanically controlled. Again power can shift more front or rear at any speed or any gear.
The Turbo and VDC models are slightly different but also are not speed or gear dependant.

Most models also have a limited slip rear differential.

Power shifts very smoothly front to rear and back. In extreme cases (hard acceleration on a icy spot) you will feel the rear get power when the front slips. Another cases of hard acceleration on gravel will not noticably spin the front tires and you can't feel power go to the rear except that the car accelerates well.

--Jay

cccompson

I will be taking delivery of a Pilot this week and have read most of the posts here looking for information on which tires, Goodyears or Bridgestones, are better. Seems like there is good and bad points to each.

Overall, which is better and why (can have dealer swap tires if need be)?

qbrozen

I know the subie power split changes as needed when in Drive. But, like you said and like I said, is 90/10 by default. And it WILL indeed default to 50/50 if you select a lower gear in the automatic (at least this is how it was supposedly set up on my '98 - i haven't seen if this holds true on newer models).

So the Pilot does this same thing, but with the push of a button instead. That's the only difference.

sbcooke

I have Bridgestones on my Isuzu. The originals were Dueler 684s, basically their H/T line. I was very satisfied with their performance. The only issue was the treadwear. I swapped them out at about 25K (I wanted A/T tires) and while the tread was still decent, it was well below 1/2 way. The 684s had a 60K treadwear warranty, I doubt they would have made it that long.

lexusrock

I am trying to decide between a Pilot vs. Odyssey. The only off road I run into is snowy road at Tahoe when skiing (even that just 2-3 times/yr). And sporty image from SUV over minivan does have some lure for me but just a very little.

I look at the interior and already see some minuses on the Pilot (or any SUV I guess) side: 1. the 3rd row is much smaller than Ody and frankly not for seating on hours kinda trips, 2. the trunk space when 3rd row seat is up is much more limited than Ody, and 3. the middle row is not movable.

Can someone tell me a few good practical reasons why should I pay more for a Pilot over an Ody.

markjenn

IMHO, unless you need the extra "utility" of the Pilot (meaning better poor traction, rough roads, and towing capability), the Odyssey is a better all-around vehicle for carrying people and cargo on paved roads. So its a simple tradeoff on whether you want to give this up to get the AWD and better towing.

I think most people buy the Pilot over the Odyssey simple because they like driving an SUV more than a minivan - either vehicle would do the job just fine and the price delta isn't terribly significant.

I recall this arose six-months or so ago, and a lot of Pilot owners stepped up to defend the car and weigh in that they thought the Pilot is a better all-around vehicle even discounting AWD and the extra towing capacity. (I disagree obviously.) You might want to page back and review these comments.

- Mark

sbcooke

I like having the 2nd row seat and all the stuff in the way back. I don't like the seating arrangement in minivans. Although we only have 2 kids and very rarely need a 3rd row. If you are interested in AWD and minivan the new sienna might be just the ticket.

dski

It's VERY simple: If you don't need the slight benefit in utility, the Odyssey is the smarter choice. People can argue till the cows come home but it's the simple fact. If space in the third row is needed you know what to do. If you "want" or prefer driving an SUV then go for it. I love living in a Free Country.

Best of luck
Drew