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Pontiac Solstice

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  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 11,077
    aside - theo, it was read only, and I unearthed it. I just didn't explain fully :)

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  • logic1logic1 Posts: 2,433
    http://www.damienheiser.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=12&amp- ;pos=2

    Love the shots of the frame. This is going to be a great car.
  • regfootballregfootball Posts: 2,166
    yeah. it looks like all the ingredients are there.
  • revdrluvrevdrluv Posts: 417
    So any final word on pricing? I can't believe this car is actually going to come in under 20k as Lutz is saying! After the 80's and 90's I never thought there would be a Pontiac that I would actually desire.
  • dindakdindak Posts: 6,632
    They were saying the U$20K range but I have trouble believing it. Seems to me they could make more considering they will only produce about 20K / year.
  • bretaabretaa Posts: 130
    You never know until you touch the plastic and turn the knobs, but.........

    Pontiac, thank you so much for that interior. It's given me hope for the whole domestic auto industry...

    Bret
  • theo2709theo2709 Posts: 476
    The car is almost completely stripped at below $20k. Manual window cranks and things of that nature are all you get.
  • revdrluvrevdrluv Posts: 417
    Sweet! I am all about that.
  • regfootballregfootball Posts: 2,166
    I don't care. On a two seater you can crank your own window and lean across to get the other.

    Powertrain and looks and handling are priority one and for a change Pontiac seems to have nabbed all three from the get go.

    Of course we won't see the car hit market for like 2 years yet.
  • revdrluvrevdrluv Posts: 417
    Is that what Pontiac is saying?
  • theo2709theo2709 Posts: 476
    Production starts late this year.
  • dindakdindak Posts: 6,632
    If they sell them for $20K stripped, so be it. It would be a summer fun car for me so who cares. Of course it's all a fantasy as we can't afford a 3rd car at this time.

    ;-)
  • Pontiac's press release says car will hit dealer showrooms in fall of 2005.
  • theo2709theo2709 Posts: 476
    Whoops, I read the dates wrong. It is indeed fall 05.
  • at the NAIAS and I must say it is sweet! According to info the 18" rims and leather seats will be standard. If this car does come in at 20K they will sell as many as they can build!
  • jon1102jon1102 Posts: 16
    I have never seen pictures with the top up. If you saw it with the top up does it look as good up as down. I have a 1984 Fiat Spyder that is being completely restored. I may have to upgrade to this. Thanks
  • there are no pictures with the top up. i asked at the show if the model on display had a top. the answer was yes but he was not allowed to put it up. There is this picture -

    http://www.solsticeforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=86&- stc=1
  • revdrluvrevdrluv Posts: 417
    Funny, I went out and checked reactions to the Solstice from people on various other websites. Seems like the people on the Pontiac boards are angry that it isn't coming with a V6, don't like the way it looks and think GM is making a mistake. People on Honda/Acura forums however, think it is a gorgeous car with decent power, but a little overweight.

    From this it seems that Pontiac is going to pull buyers in from other brands, or that they are making a mistake by producing a vehicle their fan base doesn't want.
  • theo2709theo2709 Posts: 476
    Kappa is capable of handling a small V6, so a turbo/supercharged version of the HF 3.6L might be in Pontiac's future. It would most likely be dropped to 2.8L or 3.2L.
  • Was this in a press release? Or do you have "special" knowledge?

    I'd love to see them build a Kappa Cadillac with the 2.4L/2.8L/3.2L as options and styled like the Cadillac Sixteen. I think that would look pretty cool. Probably the easiest way for BLutz to get Sixteen styling on Caddy any time soon, as I think Art and Science would look too harsh on a car that size.
  • regfootballregfootball Posts: 2,166
    screw GM's existing fan base. If they don't like it too bad. They are part of a declining group. Pontiac needs this car to bring in new and more free spending buyers.
  • revdrluvrevdrluv Posts: 417
    I agree completely regfootball.

    The people who are doing the bithing would most likely never buy a car like this anyway. Many of them went on to say that GM should have brought the Opel Speedster over instead of creating the Solstice. Right, if you hate the Solstice, what is going to make you want a VX220? If that car was available for sale tommorrow the same people would [non-permissible content removed] about how small it is and how hard it is to get in and out of it.
  • logic1logic1 Posts: 2,433
    There is a very good chance I will own a Solstice.

    Put the Solstice base engine in the Vibe and I might take one home for my day to day hauler as well : )
  • regfootballregfootball Posts: 2,166
    The Solstice is a phenomal car (this coming froma GM disser).

    I have often considered a Vibe because of its Toyota roots. After test drives I cooled on the Vibe because I realized it needs more motor (and you can't get the supercharger with the stick) and it has a mommyvan driving position. The mitsubishi Outlander is more appealing (although I hear its slow too).

    170 hp 2.4 ecotec would be a fabulous engine in the vibe. I drove the matrix xrs and it sounded like it was gonna explde through its fart can muffler.

    Solstice-winning exterior, winning interior. Athletic stance. Ample powertrains. Low price (supposedly). This is precisely the car Pontiac needs to shed the redneck image it has.
  • revdrluvrevdrluv Posts: 417
    They did make it pretty heavy for the competition. Sure the engine has 170, but the power to weight ratio is no better than a Miata or MR2. Hopefully that won't adversely effect the driving dynamics too much.
  • logic1logic1 Posts: 2,433
    I think the more solid frame in the Solstice will actually enhance the driving experience on the twisties. The car has near 50-50 balance and very rigid side to side bracing.

    The best mod for the miata are the anti-sway bars. They add weight but really plant the thing to the pavement.

    If 0-60 is your thing, pay extra for the supercharged version.
  • revdrluvrevdrluv Posts: 417
    Not me. If I buy one of these things I want the version with as little on it as possible. If I could buy one without power steering I would.

    Has Pontiac made an official statement about making a supercharged version of the Solstice?
  • logic1logic1 Posts: 2,433
    There will be a supercharged 2.4 available for the Colbalt SS. Stands to figure one will find its way into the Solstice. It will be too easy to do for GM not to.

    A little more on the weight issue. There are some excellent details of the Solstice frame in the linked photos in my post 55. The detail shows the Solstice is heavier than the Miata for four reasons:

    1. Wheel base is about 6 inches longer;
    2. It has big honking built in anti-sway bars,
    3. It has a built in roll-bar; and,
    4. It has 18 inch wheels.

    1, 2, and 4 can only help driving dynamics. 3 may not necessarily improve driving, but I like my head well enough that the added security of a roll bar may improve the driving experience for me.

    GM could have made the car lighter with aluminum components. That would also have upped the price.
  • revdrluvrevdrluv Posts: 417
    None of those things mentioned should add that much significant weight to explain the dramatic difference between the Solstice and the Miata except maybe those 18 inch wheels. However, the Solstice's weight IS competitive with the Z4, SLK, S2000 and Boxter.

    I don't recall seeing a rollbar, is it supposed to be of the pop-up variety.

    Are those 18 inchers supposed to be standard or optional. I don't think I need that much alloy on mine.
  • rollbar is integrated behind the seats and according to current info the 18"s are standard.
  • regfootballregfootball Posts: 2,166
    i believe i have read things that suggest the 240hp s/c 4 will find its way into the solstice.

    i wish they were making the coupe.

    i hope chevy makes the nomad, or better yet, stretch the solstice chassis and make a new VEGA!!!!!!!!!

    VEGA BABY!!!!!!
  • logic1logic1 Posts: 2,433
    Again, you have to look at the photos linked in post 55.

    There is a large roll bar incorporated behind the seats. That is why the Solstice has the raised fastback look behind the seats.

    Figure 70 pounds for the roll bar, 50 each for the antisway bars, more than 100 for the larger wheels, add in the extra steel for the 6" additional length, the weight of the larger engine, and there you will have the additional weight of the car compared to the Miata.

    February Car & Driver says the supercharged will find its way into a Solstice, but does not say when. I believe the Cobalt SS comes out a year after the plain version. So maybe the 07 Solstice will have an SS option.
  • revdrluvrevdrluv Posts: 417
    I think you may be rounding up quite a bit on several of those items, but sure, I see where you are going with this.
  • I've been waiting over a year and dreaming of the car they showed us last year in car and driver. IMHO they changed some of the best features. I loved the 19 rear 18 front wheels the rubber on the new pictures looks so small compared to the old pictures and I loved the exhaust pipe centered in the rear bumper. Up till now I was trying to decide on which Trans Am I was going to sell. I may still consider a Solstice if they Offer the wheels and the supercharger as a options package. Otherwise i keep both my WS6's and my 67 bird
  • theo2709theo2709 Posts: 476
    Your gripes will likely be addressed with the GXP version coming out a year or so later.
  • People over at a "different" newsgroup are saying that there will be a convertible hard top version available as well. They said that a spokesman at NAIAS quoted 18k for the base solstice (maybe they'll put the 2.2 in there?) and 25k for the hardtop convertible...

    Can anyone else confirm this? Does it seem reasonable?

    If they could get this thing to 18k, they'll have to up their estimated product numbers. What did they originally say? 20,000 a year?
  • vcjumpervcjumper Posts: 1,110
    I cannot see them building a hardtop and soft top version if their total output goal is capped at 20K units per annum.
  • Does anyone have the Miata sales projections and actual number sold from the 1990 year (1st year of production)? Just wanted to see how the comparison stacks up.
  • I love it. Would likely spring for one... but.. It seems like every time mfrs. come out with a cool little econo ride like this, w/ a promised price that most can afford.... well the dealers try to gouge us to the max. I get insulted. Do I LOOK stupid? And walk away, NEVER to return. I won't play that game. Down off my soap box, now. But, I can just SEE it coming. Hope I am wrong.
  • mazda6iguymazda6iguy Posts: 365
    For those who saw the Detroit NAIAS show, they showed the Solstice, Saturn Curve and Chevy Nomad. They also showed a Vauxhall VX concept car. I think without a lot of trouble, they can place a Cadillac badge in place of the Vauxhall badge and have a 2 seater Cadillac. What do you think? Of course they already have the XLR.
  • if the car is hot, you are sure to pay, for the first rights to own the newest and coolest.

    Mini was that way, the MR2 was that way, etc.

    I would argue that cooler heads prevail, and come out ahead. Let them cap production, let them gouge to the "me-firsts." There is a cost associated with buying the latest technologies.

    Ask the guy who spent $1000 four years ago for a $100 DVD on the market today if he feels gouged?

    Chances are he does, but he shouldn't.

    I will take a wait and see, work hard to pay off the current ride and if this car is as good as it looks, it would merit some hard considerations.

    Also on the current maps:
    New Mustang
    Audi A3
    VW's own concept roadster (not sure of name, but could be in production by 2006) which is supposed to splash in at mid-20s and share some features with the Boxter.
    The New Golf
    The New Volvo S40
    The Saab 9-2X

    Funny, the Solstice is the second American car in the last 12 months to truly gain my interest, first was the Mustang redo, now, we will potentially have a truly good looking roadster for under $30k.

    If I had $30k+, I would be hunting for the Z4 or a CPO Boxster myself. But I don't. $25k might fit a budget in another 12-18 months, if I can get into a better credit bracket.

    Kudos Pontiac, you might live up to building some excitement after all...
  • mbukukanyaumbukukanyau Posts: 200
    If GM could give Solstice good perfomance credentials and an interior to match, complete with Navigation (somthing GM seems to be afraid of) it could take on these roadstars.
    After all, its the best style out there

    image

    image
    image

    image

    I find the TT and Z4 especially ugly. The TT is soo beetle.
    If GM uses this car well, and prices it appropriately and give it the right combination of style performance power and refinement, they could change the way Pontiac is viewed.

    Its should be Tuned on Germany's treacherous Nürburgring racetrack
  • breetai52breetai52 Posts: 91
    If GM uses the interior that they showed a few months ago and fit and finish is nice, they won't be able to make enough of these. And of course no one believes it when I tell them 20k. A friend of mine hates American. I showed him the solstice he said "30k?". When I told him 20 he flipped. At 20k I could actually afford to have it as a second car just for the summer... hmmm.

    I think they'll sell alot of these as second cars, the Z4 is too expensive to be a second car for the vast majority of people. Even used.

    The only real competition for this car is the Miata. The TT and Z4 starts at 34k and the SLK at 40k. I think Pontiac could put the SCd 240HP ecotec and a convertible hard top on the Solstice and still price it below 34k. Of course then the S2000 and MR2 become competitors...
  • blacktalonblacktalon Posts: 203
    Any word on whether they're going to come out with a supercharged version?

    Assuming it handles well, a $25K 240HP Solstice could be serious competition for the base 350Z and RX-8...
  • theo2709theo2709 Posts: 476
    At first the supercharger will be a dealer-installed accessory.
  • that gives me some hope that this car can hit all our expectations, budget, performance and style!

    Will give me something to think about for the next few months, and a reason not the scratch the new car itch just yet.
  • dirkworkdirkwork Posts: 210
    Lutz definately understands the market and cars more than most of the folks there at GM. Old line staff would have tried to re-skin the Aztek into a sports car or some other disaster. It actually sounds like GM has "rediscovered" its global divisions!
  • I'm not sure exactly what target market GM has identified for the Solstice, but I suspect I'm in it. I'm a mid-twenties male and I absolutely love the look of this car. But, the main attraction is the claimed price. I can actually afford to buy a new car if it's under $25 K. I've been wanting a convertible for years, but my only choices were the Miata, V6 Mustang, and the VW Cabrio. Miata is too small for my 6'3" frame, although what a fun car to drive and ride in! The VW Cabrio is a nice crusiser but a little girly and a very underpowered. The V6 Mustang is what I've been looking at for awhile now.

    However, the new Solstice is what I WANT. If it has about 2" more headroom and legroom than the Miata, that will satisfy me. I'll take the base 2.4 liter 170hp engine. Don't give me auto anything please. I want a true roadster. Keep the style as beautiful as it is, and GM has a new consumer.

    I have avoided GM products ever since I got rid of my "break down once a month" 1988 Camaro in 2000. The Solstice, and some of the other beautiful cars from Bob Lutz have drawn me back to American designs, but the reliability is still a concern. However, with a NON-auto, base Solstice, I can't think of too much nonsense that could go wrong. The 2.4 liter 4 banger is proven, and I'm ready to buy, if the car handles even close to as well as the Miata. Give me a test drive soon Bob!
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