I'd go back to the dealer to cancel your order and let them know how and why they lost your business, in the hopes that they'll improve their service for the next guy. The $50 is not important IMO.
Bob: if the new Legacy arrives in 2005, I bet the Baja comes a year later.
Patti said something about driving in a figure 8 pattern a couple of times to break-in the AWD system. Try that and see if the tranny (drivetrain really) feels smoother.
But I agree with paisan - you've got 5 driveshafts slowing you down when you let off the gas.
Brown usually likes Subies, he gave the 2001 Forester a rave review, even mentioning the 2.5l felt like a 6 cylinder (he reached 60 in 9.1s with an auto), much quicker than his Sante Fe V6.
In a scale from 1 to 10, I'd give him about a 6 on technical accuracy though. 24 mpg is fantastic, no pickup could come close.
I say put the H6 along in the current model, call it the 3.0. Then create a cheaper 2.5 model with cloth seats, and maybe make the moonroof optional.
Actually went to a dealer yesterday, but they were swapping out the water pump for that recall IIRC. It was pre-sold, too, so I'm still waiting to sample one.
Totally second your line of thinking! I've been saying the same all along. If anything could use the grunt of the H6, it would be the Baja. It could only help in the arena of towing and loads in the cargo area.
Squiredogs wrote: At around 37-40 MPH, the car seems to engine brake a little if I let up on the gas to coast in traffic. Is that the AWD, the weight of the vehicle, or the auto transmission doing a downshift? Or a problem? If I remember correctly, the RPMs are under 2K, and stay that way when this is happening. This may be what some people describe as "hunting for gears", but I don't know. Maybe part of the break-in? Or I could be paranoid, but I do feel a pulling down in that situation, although very slight. REPLY: My 2000 Outback has the same transmission and drivetrain, and I think this is normal. All modern automatics have lockup torque converters. Unless you are flooring it, the tranny is locking up the TC in 4th gear at this speed, so if you let off on the gas, you will get a bit of engine braking. You need to learn this behavior and drive with a light foot in traffic. The Subaru does not free-wheel. In the mountains (where I live) you want the tranny to brake a bit for you, note how 3 and D are in the same gate, making the 4-3 downshift easy and avoiding 2 unless you move to the next (right) gate.
I was over in Tysons Corner today, which is not far from your place. The dealer over there (Stholmans on Rt. 7) had 4 Bajas (yellow, red, silver, & silver) in stock, two of which were 5-speeds. I took another 5-speed out. They have a neat test course over a very winding road, then ending up on the the Dulles Toll Road (the sales guy paid the tolls!)
You ought to head over there to drive one. The one I took out was yellow.
The chat monster that was after us last week has been slain, so...
Just a reminder that every Thursday you can join the Subaru Crew for a chat session from 6-7pm PT/9-10pm ET. Stop in to talk about Subaru or just to say hello!... Hope to see you there!!
I saw my first Baja "live" at a dealer yesterday. It was red and the extensive cladding, to my eye, looked very "plactic-like" against that color. I was frankly pretty disappointed. The pass through into the cab is a neat idea though.
Per recommendation above, I'll be off to Stohlman's to check out other colors. My gut tells me the cladding is going to look best against a silver background.
Ride: I drove a short course near Herb Gordon (formerly Tischer) Subaru, Silver Spring, MD, w/a salesman so I was light on the throttle and steering. Salesman said the front struts have less rebound than 2002 Outbacks due to (?) springs (forgot the name) for dampening. I noted some stiffness that might have been tire (over)pressure.
Features: The pass-through is neat. Some wind noise from the crossbars with the moonroof open (as with all crossbars). The bed seems well thought-out, with drain holes, a gate-mounted license plate holder that folds so it's visible with the gate down, notches for cross supports (creating a two-level bed), and light.
Herb Gordon will receive a 5MT Baja next week. No brochures (nor at subaru.com).
I drove a Regatta Red/Silver Stone Metallic. A Baja Yellow arrived as I was talking to the salesman; it might have a bit too much orange for me but it does look nice. Funny that Subarus arrived on a covered truck carrier, while Mercedes-Benzs unloaded nearby arrived on (gasp!) uncovered trucks. (Usually, I see MB on covered trucks, this was an anomaly AFAIK.)
I believe they're called "internal rebound springs."
Regarding the 2-tier loading in the bed: Did you notice the slots, for the cross slats, have a small lip at the top, to keep the slats from bouncing out of their pockets. Question: How do you get the cross slats into those pockets, with that lip in place? You can get one end in, but you can't get the other end in, with that lip in place!?
I'm wondering if Subaru will be offering some sort of a spring-loaded slat, that you can compress just a bit, so that you can insert that cross-slat into the pocket?
What did you think of the styling? I think they look better in person, than in pictures.
When I was at the Tyson's dealer yesterday, the sales guy and I (with much help from the owner's manual) figured out how to secure the optional bed extender in place with the tailgate down. If you don't secure the bed extender in place, it will bounce up and down on rough roads, and you risk loosing your cargo.
There are are 2 small straps, with attachment clips, that slide on the bed extender. When the tailgate is down, you insert each strap-clip into the latch on both sides of the open tailgate. You need to insert until you hear "2 clicks" You then snug up the straps as needed. Then it's secure.
To unlatch those clips, when you want to close the tailgate, you use the tailgate release handle, as you would do when you want to lower the tailgate. That releases the straps/clips.
Also, when you want to remove the bed extender, you raise it vertically 90º, and it lifts right out! It's great for thieves...
"Internal rebound springs", that might have been what he said; thanks, Bob.
C'mon Bob, they wouldn't call me Mr. Cup Holder if I neglected minutiae. Of course I looked at the slots! Glad you asked. The salesman said some pickups have slots to accept 2x4 lumber to create the 2nd tier. Subaru has a slot designed to work with dedicated cross slat members, not 2x4s. I don't recall if he said Subaru or the aftermarket would provide cross slat members. He said Subaru expects many aftermarket bed accessories, such as a bed cover.
Do any owners know more?
Styling: Definitely looks better in person. Normally, cladding isn't for me (why we choose GT monotone over Outback two-tone w/cladding) but if I were buying a Baja, I'd want it. I can't decide if it's overdone. It'll probably grow on me, like most things.
I just wish that Baja Yellow one had the protective white plastic wrap removed so I could get better handle how the Baja wears the color and cladding.
From www.media.subaru.com, Product Info, Baja, 07/31/2002 Subaru Core Technology Empowers the Baja™ and Defines the Brand:
The 2003 Baja retains the proven strut-type suspension design in front for packaging efficiency. The rear uses a multi-link design. This suspension design provides excellent lateral rigidity and geometry, as well as optimal control of bump-steer and noise, vibration and harshness (NVH). The front struts are all new and incorporate internal rebound springs, coil spring rate changes and improved shock valve tuning to reduce body roll and further refine ride quality. The internal rebound springs also increase longitudinal stability by reducing lift on acceleration.
Test-drove a Baja with automatic the other day. Lift on acceleration is not one of my big concerns, and I don't think it's because of the rebound springs...
I will probably buy one, but it won't be because of its looks. Hey, has anyone seen the kayak carrier that is an option for the roof rack? I'm told I'll have to pay for it (non-refundable) before my dealer will order one. Not too helpful.
Thanks for the tip, Bob. Check out the Cafe for my surprising test of the Pilot.
I think all Crew Cabs look, well, awkward. It's just not a well proportional body style. The Sport Trac isn't pretty. The Tacoma is plain but boring, and the Frontier is downright ugly now that they went overboard. The Dakota is the least offensive of the compacts.
Got a silver one, automatic, with bed extender, tweeters, no other options on it. Ordered a hitch and a differential protector. $500 over invoice, and I was able to apply the $2000 in vouchers I had built up over many years in the credit card loyalty program.
I'm satisfied with the power, tried it in a couple of freeway situations. Not as quick as the Mazda Protege I'm retiring, but quick enough.
Yeah, I was writing the check when I realized the date. But I figured I was already driving a weird car, no need to start worrying about what other rules I was breaking.
What more can I say, I love it. Its not even worth comparing it to my old Tacoma, but it is a much better ride than even our 98 Outback. Same engine, same hp, torque, max rpms, etc. but the Baja feels like it has a 30-40 hp advantage. Maybe thats just the difference between the AT and the 5-speed manual. The suspension is a huge improvement, no body roll at all, and bumps you feel in the Outback barely register in the Baja. The steering is excellent, probably due to the larger wheels and low profile tires, but I read somwhere about the Baja having some kind of "speed tuned" steering. Anyway, I am very happy with it. The dealership here in Plano TX still does not have a replacement for the one I grabbed and have no idea when they will get another. There were only 3 Bajas, all silver, delivered to the 3 dealerships in the Dallas area 2 weeks ago so for the moment I still have a fairly unique vehicle in an area where Subarus are not that common anyway. I have not had that many looks but so far all I've been doing is commuting and running around a bit on weekends. Since lots of people here drive Suburbans, F250 Super Duty trucks, etc. as commuter/mall shopping vehicles I am probably beneath their notice. I'm still on my first tank of gas and having a great ride. I hope Subaru comes out with more monotone color options for the Baja, the 2-tone colors really overemphasize all the plastic cladding.
with you about offering more color choices for the Baja. Right now you either have high-contrast choices (Red/Silver, Black/Silver % Yellow/Silver), or the no-contrast Silver/Silver.
I would like to see a couple of subtle-contrast colors offered, such as: Titanium/Silver and SeaMist Pearl/Silver. The Titanium and SeaMist Pearl are currently offered on the Legacy and Outback models.
Subaru marketers really dropped the ball on this exciting new vehicle. The Baja has been on dealer lots now for almost two weeks, and no dealer (that I'm aware of) has gotten any brochures to hand out to interested customers!
Here you have an excited audience, about a really new product, and little information is available! The Baja web site does little to help. It's nothing more than a teaser to get you into the showroom; nothing more.
Only the barest of specifications is currently available, and little info on options. The sales people are equally at a loss. People come in with questions, and the sales people have few answers, because they don't know anything either. It does not reflect well on SOA, at all.
Can anyone recommend a northern NJ dealer? There is one Nissan/Subie dealership in Morris County that I was advised to avoid if I wanted straight talk and a straight deal. Any firsthand advice?
A few NJ folks have posted their recommendations in the Owners Club, Subaru Crew: Best Service Facilities discussion. The Edmunds search engine may or may not return results, so you might have to browse 20 posts at a time.
I'm hoping that Subaru (or some accessory manufacturer) would offer an option similar to this, as an option. These kinds of racks are commonly available for full size commercially-oriented pickups.
I doubt Subaru would do it because of the limited payload. Something like that would just urge some folks to go overboard (not implying you would, BTW).
I probably wouldn't need to carry more than 100lbs anyway, its just that if I need to carry a few timbers or sheets of plywood on the weekends, I can now do it with this contraption. Previously that was a limitation of this vehicle that I did not have with my Tacoma. I'm a happy camper now that I've solved this issue - for me anyway. But I'm not planning to use the Baja as a work truck or anything FYI it took 3 Coronas to build this thing.
Am I correct? No V6 option? Ugggghhh! My brother was excited about the baja. He asked about engine size./ When I said 4 cyl only, he said no thanks. Why oh why is there no V6. Alsdo, I think its about time that GM/Subaru hired some designers.
All Subaru's use flat (Horizontally opposed) engines, so it would be an H6.
Unfortunately, the H6 isn't available right now. Although there are rumors that it will be. Some magazine (or web site) said that Subaru said we'll get it. That was one of the biggest complaints when the specs were announced. Especially since the concept version had a supercharged engine.
Don't knock the torquey flat 4 until you've tried it. :-)
If we see a V layout, it would mean a GM-sourced engine. Run, do not walk.
Some pubs are already mentioning a more powerful Baja will be sold next year. I'm sure Subaru is waiting to see how well the Baja sells, and haven't made a final decision yet.
But I bet it will have the H6 in MY2004. It's a truck for CAFE purposes, so fuel mileage is completely a non-issue. They could put as much power as they want, basically.
I agree that there's a H6 in the Baja's future, the question being when? Look at DC, they are just now offering a turbo option for the PT Cruiser so MY-04 for the Baja might be a bit soon. I think it depends on sales. If the Baja flies off the dealer lots, then there'll be less of an incentive to add an H6 option.
I placed a $500 deposit on a Baja on Wednesday. The owner of the dealership told me he'd have a VIN for me in two days - so far nada. I called the salesman on Friday and he told me they haven't found one yet. I told him I'd also take a black one. They have two Bajas on the lot, a red one and a black one, but both are automatics and I am dead-set on a 5 speed. I drove one of the autos - it was adequate and sold me on the vehicle, but I'm looking for something a little more fun (FYI I tested a WRX wagon also - but that's another story). I plan to give them until Wednesday again before I start rattling their cages. Does anyone know much about the inventory listed on the Web sites? They seem to be pretty uniform from dealer to dealer. I noticed a dealer down in Tampa had a black 5-speed on the web site, but since my local dealer had 4 listed on their web site, I wasn't sure how reliable that info is.
all the dealers got at least one. I was told that high-volume dealers had more. One thing I have noticed, it seems that the dealers are holding onto the vehicles (or keep at least one on the lot) until the next shipment comes in, so they have something to show customers. I don't know if that's a fact, or just my perception.
This weekend there was a Subaru Dealers convention here in Saratoga Springs, north of Albany. In the parking lot of the Saratoga Performing Arts Center, just south of town, Subaru had set up a quasi off road obstacle course with ramps with rollers, timber grids, lengths of rope on the pavement, etc. On Sunday there were 3 yellow Bajas parked there. There were signs for the "Subaru Academy", a training course for dealers. I checked out the Bajas which were locked. The cargo bed and pass-through are very small. The tailgate is solid and well crafted (no surprise).
I drove by late today and saw several more Bajas: silver, red and black. It looked like they had finished up and were getting ready to ship out. The launch can't be far away.
has launched! Dealers around here have had them for two weeks now.
Yes, the tailgate is VERY beefy (heavy!) for such a small vehicle. It's almost as heavy as the tailgate on my old F-150, and much heavier than those found on small truck-based pickups, as I recall.
Dropped by the dealer again today. Seems the owner was "up north" - I'm guessing at the convention mentioned by jei above. The salesman said that there is now a list of 4 people waiting for 5-speeds - they have 3 autos on the lot. He told me that the owner believes I will have it by month end. It had been a week since I had looked at the Baja. Of course, I sat in it again, looked under the hood, etc. I spent the whole last week researching other cars I might have purchased (technically I still could if I wanted to), but the second visit definitely convinced me that I want the Baja. I hope it comes in before Sunday so I can use it to go tailgating before the Jaguars vs. Jets.
The only vehicle that i canm find roughly comparable to the Baja is the Ford Explorer Sport Trac. I'm researching the vehicles now as to weight, acceleration, MPG. et al...
Comments
I'd go back to the dealer to cancel your order and let them know how and why they lost your business, in the hopes that they'll improve their service for the next guy. The $50 is not important IMO.
Bob: if the new Legacy arrives in 2005, I bet the Baja comes a year later.
Patti said something about driving in a figure 8 pattern a couple of times to break-in the AWD system. Try that and see if the tranny (drivetrain really) feels smoother.
But I agree with paisan - you've got 5 driveshafts slowing you down when you let off the gas.
Brown usually likes Subies, he gave the 2001 Forester a rave review, even mentioning the 2.5l felt like a 6 cylinder (he reached 60 in 9.1s with an auto), much quicker than his Sante Fe V6.
In a scale from 1 to 10, I'd give him about a 6 on technical accuracy though. 24 mpg is fantastic, no pickup could come close.
-juice
Bob
http://www.detnews.com/2002/autosconsumer/0209/10/g01-577594.htm
Ed
Bob
I say put the H6 along in the current model, call it the 3.0. Then create a cheaper 2.5 model with cloth seats, and maybe make the moonroof optional.
Actually went to a dealer yesterday, but they were swapping out the water pump for that recall IIRC. It was pre-sold, too, so I'm still waiting to sample one.
-juice
Stephen
You ought to head over there to drive one. The one I took out was yellow.
Bob
Just a reminder that every Thursday you can join the Subaru Crew for a chat session from 6-7pm PT/9-10pm ET. Stop in to talk about Subaru or just to say hello!... Hope to see you there!!
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It was red and the extensive cladding, to my eye, looked very "plactic-like" against that color. I was frankly pretty disappointed. The pass through into the cab is a neat idea though.
Per recommendation above, I'll be off to Stohlman's to check out other colors. My gut tells me the cladding is going to look best against a silver background.
Bob
Features: The pass-through is neat. Some wind noise from the crossbars with the moonroof open (as with all crossbars). The bed seems well thought-out, with drain holes, a gate-mounted license plate holder that folds so it's visible with the gate down, notches for cross supports (creating a two-level bed), and light.
Herb Gordon will receive a 5MT Baja next week. No brochures (nor at subaru.com).
I drove a Regatta Red/Silver Stone Metallic. A Baja Yellow arrived as I was talking to the salesman; it might have a bit too much orange for me but it does look nice. Funny that Subarus arrived on a covered truck carrier, while Mercedes-Benzs unloaded nearby arrived on (gasp!) uncovered trucks. (Usually, I see MB on covered trucks, this was an anomaly AFAIK.)
Cheers,
..Mike
..Mike
Regarding the 2-tier loading in the bed: Did you notice the slots, for the cross slats, have a small lip at the top, to keep the slats from bouncing out of their pockets. Question: How do you get the cross slats into those pockets, with that lip in place? You can get one end in, but you can't get the other end in, with that lip in place!?
I'm wondering if Subaru will be offering some sort of a spring-loaded slat, that you can compress just a bit, so that you can insert that cross-slat into the pocket?
What did you think of the styling? I think they look better in person, than in pictures.
Bob
There are are 2 small straps, with attachment clips, that slide on the bed extender. When the tailgate is down, you insert each strap-clip into the latch on both sides of the open tailgate. You need to insert until you hear "2 clicks" You then snug up the straps as needed. Then it's secure.
To unlatch those clips, when you want to close the tailgate, you use the tailgate release handle, as you would do when you want to lower the tailgate. That releases the straps/clips.
Also, when you want to remove the bed extender, you raise it vertically 90º, and it lifts right out! It's great for thieves...
Bob
C'mon Bob, they wouldn't call me Mr. Cup Holder if I neglected minutiae. Of course I looked at the slots! Glad you asked. The salesman said some pickups have slots to accept 2x4 lumber to create the 2nd tier. Subaru has a slot designed to work with dedicated cross slat members, not 2x4s. I don't recall if he said Subaru or the aftermarket would provide cross slat members. He said Subaru expects many aftermarket bed accessories, such as a bed cover.
Do any owners know more?
Styling: Definitely looks better in person. Normally, cladding isn't for me (why we choose GT monotone over Outback two-tone w/cladding) but if I were buying a Baja, I'd want it. I can't decide if it's overdone. It'll probably grow on me, like most things.
I just wish that Baja Yellow one had the protective white plastic wrap removed so I could get better handle how the Baja wears the color and cladding.
..Mike
..Mike
..Mike
I will probably buy one, but it won't be because of its looks. Hey, has anyone seen the kayak carrier that is an option for the roof rack? I'm told I'll have to pay for it (non-refundable) before my dealer will order one. Not too helpful.
I think all Crew Cabs look, well, awkward. It's just not a well proportional body style. The Sport Trac isn't pretty. The Tacoma is plain but boring, and the Frontier is downright ugly now that they went overboard. The Dakota is the least offensive of the compacts.
-juice
I'm satisfied with the power, tried it in a couple of freeway situations. Not as quick as the Mazda Protege I'm retiring, but quick enough.
Yeah, I was writing the check when I realized the date. But I figured I was already driving a weird car, no need to start worrying about what other rules I was breaking.
Mark
The dealership here in Plano TX still does not have a replacement for the one I grabbed and have no idea when they will get another. There were only 3 Bajas, all silver, delivered to the 3 dealerships in the Dallas area 2 weeks ago so for the moment I still have a fairly unique vehicle in an area where Subarus are not that common anyway. I have not had that many looks but so far all I've been doing is commuting and running around a bit on weekends. Since lots of people here drive Suburbans, F250 Super Duty trucks, etc. as commuter/mall shopping vehicles I am probably beneath their notice. I'm still on my first tank of gas and having a great ride. I hope Subaru comes out with more monotone color options for the Baja, the 2-tone colors really overemphasize all the plastic cladding.
Cheers!
http://www.mcgaughey.org/webpage/images/baja/
I would like to see a couple of subtle-contrast colors offered, such as: Titanium/Silver and SeaMist Pearl/Silver. The Titanium and SeaMist Pearl are currently offered on the Legacy and Outback models.
Bob
Subaru marketers really dropped the ball on this exciting new vehicle. The Baja has been on dealer lots now for almost two weeks, and no dealer (that I'm aware of) has gotten any brochures to hand out to interested customers!
Here you have an excited audience, about a really new product, and little information is available! The Baja web site does little to help. It's nothing more than a teaser to get you into the showroom; nothing more.
Only the barest of specifications is currently available, and little info on options. The sales people are equally at a loss. People come in with questions, and the sales people have few answers, because they don't know anything either. It does not reflect well on SOA, at all.
Bob
..Mike Smith
..Mike
That white is the VDC's prettiest color, IMO.
-juice
Maybe there will be some professional looking after-market option like this one day. Since
I don't have my bed extender yet, I can't really tell if it would interfere with this. If intersted, check it out. http://www.mcgaughey.org/webpage/images/baja/baja_review.html#09162002
Paul.
..Mike Smith
..Mike
Uh, where's the lime?
-juice
Bob
-juice
Bob
But I still wouldn't haul more than maybe 150 lbs or so.
-juice
FYI it took 3 Coronas to build this thing.
-juice
Alsdo, I think its about time that GM/Subaru hired some designers.
Tom
Unfortunately, the H6 isn't available right now. Although there are rumors that it will be. Some magazine (or web site) said that Subaru said we'll get it. That was one of the biggest complaints when the specs were announced. Especially since the concept version had a supercharged engine.
Don't knock the torquey flat 4 until you've tried it. :-)
-Dennis
Some pubs are already mentioning a more powerful Baja will be sold next year. I'm sure Subaru is waiting to see how well the Baja sells, and haven't made a final decision yet.
But I bet it will have the H6 in MY2004. It's a truck for CAFE purposes, so fuel mileage is completely a non-issue. They could put as much power as they want, basically.
-juice
-Frank P.
P.S. Saw my first Baja on the road last week.
-juice
Bob
They are pretty accurate (at least for this dealer). The car we bought was on their list and disappeared the day after we purchased it.
-juice
I drove by late today and saw several more Bajas: silver, red and black. It looked like they had finished up and were getting ready to ship out. The launch can't be far away.
John
Yes, the tailgate is VERY beefy (heavy!) for such a small vehicle. It's almost as heavy as the tailgate on my old F-150, and much heavier than those found on small truck-based pickups, as I recall.
Bob
-juice
Bob
-juice