Since when does a throttle cable become old hat when throttle by "wire" is concerned? Great, you have an actuator pulling open the throttle body instead of a cable pulling it open.
What does that mean? Any resistance to the throttle cable is now imaginary, or unconnected to the throttle body. No more direct contact, only the resistance of any spring placed behind the pedal.
The only benefit I can see is you no longer have to adjust the throttle cable linkage with one or two twists of a screwdriver every 100,000 miles or so.
More accurate, probably. More disconnected? Sure. Another part to pay for (especially if the actuator ever fails), yes.
Maybe some day Toyota will make a Clock standard...
Just like the "pencil-thin A-arms" that tbunder used to bring up.....what's all that about? My truck has the same system for controlling throttle as my grandfathers car had some 17 years ago: wire runs from gas pedal to the throttle body. For all I care, it works perfectly for me. So what's next? Are we going to start picking on "well, an antenna on Tacoma is 3" shorter than on Ranger"? We need new info on 2003 Tacos
Read at the bottom where it says ABS is disabled when the locker is engaged. Without this mod you can only engage locker in 4lo, i.e. ABS is disabled in 4lo. This was the first thing I came across so if you want another link I am sure I can find it.
Also, from experience alone I know this is how it works because I have ABS and the locker and prior to this mod it would disable ABS whenever I was in 4lo, now it disables ABS in 2hi or 4hi if the locker is engaged. It's a nice set up.
I was just perusing my latest Car and Driver and they have a section on changes for the 2003 model year for all makes and models. They list no changes for the Tacoma at all. I'm not saying the mag couldn't be wrong, but it does seem weird that Toyota would just "out of the blue" decide to throw a throttle - by - wire system on the Tacoma for no real reason.
first off, tire height isn't EVERYTHING. do you know how many suzuki samurai's with 215 series tires can out-wheel a vehicle with 31's? tire size doesn't mean squat. it's what the equipped tires can get you through. you guys who state things like "can't even get 31's on without a lift" are obviously wet behind the ears. fyi, i have the equivalent of a 30 inch tire. and really your 265's and 31's are only 30.7 inches tall. woohoo, big diff there. it's all about how well a vehicle can control what tire it has on it.
scorpio- the little link you provide is humorous. first of all, couldn't you find anything newer? and second of all, you posted a link where the people chatting are hardcore jeepers and even make fun of toyota's independent front suspension. to them, anything that doesn't have a solid axle or can't climb 5 feet tall boulders shouldn't be off-road. and i would bet that their opinion of "light-duty" is more than you'll ever do in your toyota. these people are the type who do not like change so any new jeep with an independent front suspension must automatically suck. you never read anyone say that they had taken one off-road and it struggled. i have provided you with links like your buddy pluto use to post all the time which he thought was the gospel stating the liberty's off-road prowess. again, you choose what you want to believe. just like the way you fail to recognize that your front a-arms are tiny and very weak and thin compared to even the frontier's. and are you now saying you knew about the abs over-ride in the tacoma? when you didn't even know it existed earlier?
okay, now here's a link stating pretty much every spec of the liberty. what part of 10.1 inches of ground clearance don't you understand?
sad- i sound dumb? who's the one bashing an off-road (and on road) designed vehicle with a real transfer case, one with a lever, when you don't even have four-wheel drive????? do you know how dumb that sounds? another thingy, check out the departure and approach angles on the liberty. a tacoma just couldn't hang with a liberty off-road. just no way. too long of a wheelbase. i sure do love my grocery hooks though. but at the same time, miss my truck bed to haul my harley. oh well, by the time it's paid off, the new ranger will be out.
also sad- i kind of thought "throttle by wire" may be the same as the technology used on the new 777, but didn't know enough to say (i actually didn't give two hoots to be honest). as stang says, just another thing to go wrong. what good is it really? do you think ford can't do this? what's the point? don't know about you, but i'd want a little more sheetmetal on my tacoma truck, who cares about a computer that controls your throttle. i bet your off-road buddies will just love that new invention huh? i can't imagine.
What's the point? I think you got stuck on that number like a broken record. About pirate4x4 guys: Yeah, they are hardcore. Who do you want talking about 4x4 abilities of a vehicle? Would you rather have some middle-aged magazine writer who thinks ride quality comes before 4x4 characteristics in a -->truck<-- (not what they call trucks these days....everything from Lincoln Navigator to Subaru Forester is called a truck). I'd at least take the pirates' word with a little more confidence. The reviews you post....they are written by the same people who think Hummer 2 is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Read some edmunds reviews on it, you'll see. And yes, thank you very much for posting a review of Jeep Liberty hosted on a site called www.jeepz.com. You complained about Toyota ads in a 4wheeler mag.....do you see anything wrong with this picture?
Here we go about A-arms again, and I thought you finally shut up about it. So.....care to bring forth ANY case of A-arms failing? If they are pencil-thin...they must break all the time. Are they? I didn't say I knew about ABS override....read my messages, in fact I said I didn't know nor cared. Are my messages that hard to understand?
Don't let your passion for the trucks turn into a fight here, OK? There are things you're not going to agree on, and NEVER be able to change each other's minds about. Recognize that fact and move ahead.
Just a reminder that every Thursday you can join the Subaru Crew for a chat session from 6-7pm PT/9-10pm ET. Stop in to talk about Subaru or just to say hello!... We had a great turnout last week, but there's always room for more, so stop by and join in this week! Hope to see you there!!
nope. it's just that there are hardcore jeepers like the ones you posted, and then there are the weekend warriors like you and I. the liberty is not a hardcore off-road vehicle, neither is your tacoma. it's a vehicle that can go off-road in normal off-road conditions (although the liberty will traverse right over your tacoma on hills and inclines), not crawl through a course set up for solid axled vehicles with 35 inch tires.
eagle- i didn't say that the toyota a-arms are breaking, just that they are puny and tiny compared to the competition. if you don't believe me, go set a ZR2, frontier 4x4 off-road, or ranger 4x4 next to a tacoma. it's laughable.
tell me this. Which is better coilovers or torsion bars?
Tbunder in all seriousness, I am having much trouble understanding your points. Why are bigger components better when smaller ones break just as little? You have made the same point with axles and now a-arms (and other areas I can't remember). What is the big deal? It just adds weight. Do you by chance know much about ATVs? There is a similar analogy with Honda ATVs. Everyone dogs on them for not bringing out 700cc bike to compete with the polaris and yamaha monstrosities. Sure they could build a bike that would compete well but they just refuse to build one that is over 600 pounds. And they have made that statement publicly. No one would be stupid enough to say that Honda doesn't make some of the best bikes around. Toyota, to me, is quite similar, although Im sure you can turn my words around so that my point goes awry.
both work well. it's just that a torsion bar takes a better shock to dampen the bouncy torsion bar ride. i don't know if one is better than the other, im not an expert. i bet torsion bars are cheaper to build than a coil-over. hence why ford went to it in '98 from a coil sprung front end in their rangers. also, im not into work ATV's. only sport ones. and right now, the new sport '03 kaw is THE coolest atv out there hands down. it just looks wicked. you guys remember, im just defending my jeep which you guys started dogging on, calling it a mall-runner and grocery getter. you truly have to drive one to see how darn solid the whole liberty platform is. it may be one of the most rigid vehicles out there toay. and with it's own off-road pkg, it's hard to beat it on trails with its short turning radius, high GC, real skidplates and towhooks, short overhangs, and awesome V6. it's only short on the tire dept. but what new vehicle isn't sans the new hummer, FX4 ranger and ZR2 S10.
your a-arms may work, but i just feel better when i have a vehicle with huge overbuilt suspension parts. maybe that's why i had two ZR2's and now this iron cladded a-arm jeep.
Too bad that everything else but the suspension parts on the Liberty are "pencil thin" like that fuel pump (at least the first one you had that crapped out after one week).:)
So.........just because you "feel better when you have a vehicle with huge overbuilt suspension parts", you set out on a campaign to convince us that Tacoma A-arms aren't worth a dime, are pencil-thin and so on and so forth? That's not gonna add any credibility to anything you say.
If you want to feel fantastic because you have overbuilt parts everywhere, get yourself a Hummer.
if you still have your stock tires on you definitely deserve to be driving around in your pre-runner. and who said anything about liberty vs tacoma tires. they both suck in stock form. even your beloved TRD tires are cheap and awful. get some BFG a/t's and call it a day.
How can this be guys? Edmunds says that the Tacoma is the top compact pickup for residual resale value. If everybody would rather buy a Ranger, how can Tacoma still be number one? Is Edmunds lying and controlled by the evil Toyota company too? http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/list/top10/71962/article.html?id=lin9126
im replying, but i guess i have nothing better to do since my cowboys got beat.
dude, you can post all the awards you want, that's fine. but the general concensus around this country is that the ranger is THE best compact pickup. it is what the people buy. in these days of easy to buy vehicles and low interest financing, it shouldn't matter what people want and what they buy. and they still buy the ranger. end of story. sure, the tacoma is a great truck; but you can't tell that to the people who plunk down the cash for rangers. wonder why..... oh, i know...it's like the mcdonalds hamburger theory, right? oh, ok i was wrong. lmao
I would be more apt to say that the general concensus is that the ranger is the best VALUE, not the best truck. Is a focus better than an E-class? Didn't think so. A cowboys fan? Man it makes too much sense.
And stock liberty tires suck way more than stock tacoma tires, that was my point. 31 inches vs. like 3, big difference. Who said I still have my stock tires anyway?
i wont get into the cowboys, you probably like the bengals or something. why wouldn't you have your stock tires? why would anyone change tires on a 2wd truck? that would be ridiculous. that would be like putting dual exhaust on a mustang with a V6. a true poser. as i stated before, it's not how big or tall your tires are, it's how your vehicle can use them. even with tires smaller than tacoma's, the liberty still has the same ground clearance (give or take a tenth of an inch) as a tacoma. i won't get into the argument of stock tires vs. stock tires. i don't play that game. i immediately yank stock tires off most vehicles. the only tires i left alone were my ZR2's tires, as they put true off-road tires on those trucks, just like the ranger FX4. no car tire ride rubber bs like tacomas. what's with that anyways? a big bad off-road pkg like the TRD, and they don't even put on LT rated tires.....way cheap. i can understand it on the liberty as they want it to ride smoother. but since LT rated tires are available on ford's and chevy's, you'd think toyota would follow suit. i guess it shows how far they want you to wander out in the rough pastures and wooded areas with thorns everywhere.
I wonder why people would pay more for a used Tacoma than a used "best compact pickup"? Doesn't make sense to me. Maybe the "best compact pickup" is only the best when it's new and becomes crapier when it's used?
No contest. For ride, compliance, ability to absorb small deflections without trasferring shock to the vehicle body, COILS work best, by far. Don't let anybody kid you otherswise. Torsions are a cheap, easy solution to adapting 4x4 front drivetrain components to old, outdated 2x4 designs. the main symtom of torsion bars is jitter...they cannot comply with small deflections of suspensions; they vibrate in a vertical displacement. The resulting effect is constant vibration. Whether or not it is objectionable depends upon the perception of the driver, and the mass of the vehicle. The heavier the vehicle, the more likely that the torsion jitter is less noticeable (terrible on a Ranger, but decent, for example, on a Silverado...) peace.
It even LOOKS like a woman's Jeep...effeminate in every way. I still think they should come out with a pink version of this German creation. No offense to any guys who own a Liberty. Just don't try to look "macho" in one of them. LOL !! ;-) You'll get laughed off the strip... !!!! I saw a fat-tired Liberty the other day..LAUGHABLE !! It was hilarious !
still here after all these years. Your one of the original Toyota crowd that swore my 98 Ranger was going to be garbage, breakdown, could not offorad, was going to fall apart... ect... Well, after over 65,000 trouble free, offroading miles/highway miles ect.. my Ranger purrs like a kitten and is as reliable as the day I bought it. I paid over 3,000 dollars less for my Ranger back in 1998 when comparing a like optioned Tacoma. I would say I got one heck of a deal, value and am damn glad I didn't fall for your Toyota preaching.. So, you Toyota fans keep throwing your money away at this percieved reliability advantage and giving Toyota record profits.. I'll keep my money. Looking at resale of my Truck. Doesn't look to bad either.. You Toyota fans paid more, I sure hope resale is better....
Scape -I never said that your 98 Ranger was going to be garbage, etc......Don't forget, my wife owns a 98 too and it's a good truck. I just like the Tacoma better. Also note, Mr. Scape, that the award was for holding its value. The initial cost doesn't apply here.
Stang - I didn't intend to insult the Ranger's value as a used vehicle. I like the Ranger. I was just pointing out that the Tacoma is a more desired and valuable used truck than the Ranger. I was really attempting to have Tbunder use his superior Jim and Tammy College (or whatever school he brags about) education to explain why the Tacoma is apparently a more desired used vehicle yet he claims that everyone would rather buy a used Ranger. I would like to hear a logical argument supporting that premise.
You thought you were gonna piss me off but didn't. My truck has done more offroad than you have ever contemplated. Whether you believe me or not, I don't care. Its the freakin truth though. Drivers matter, # of tires pulling does not. Sure you might beat me if it came to that. However, it NEVER will come to that cuz that thing will never see a more than a dirt road. You bought those BFGs so that you can tell your pansy coworkers that they are good offroad tires and you do that stuff. They don't know that 30 inch tires don't do jack. That crap doesn't fly here. If you wanted offroad tires, you get MTs anyway, right?
Have you forgotten that I defended your purchase when everyone was doggin you. The only time I got mad was when you said that you could out off-road a trd tacoma - a statement you have since backed down from. What gives?
I applaud you for buying something that was best for your family. That takes a real man to do, and I imagine it was tuff with all the good trucks out there now. I know I may someday have to do it. But leave it at that and don't say that you can outdo any trds off-road cuz its a complete and utter lie and u know it.
put your money where your mouth is. come on up and let's just see how big and bad your 4x2 really is.
pluto- since you have crawled back out of your hole, you need to do some research and read some back posts. the one where i said i would never jump a liberty. but i would out trail a TRD any day of the week.
sad- one more thing. you obviously don't know who you're talking to. i have taken my ZR2's and rangers places NO ONE else would even try and go. and i made it- with my BFG tires. so dog me and try and discount me in every way possible, but the truth of the matter is my liberty can and will go any place a 4x4 TRD can go and more. there's only one. try reading four-wheeler magazine if you want to see how good the liberty is off-road.
frey- the challenge is for you too. put your money where your mouth is. i have trails awaiting us. we'll just see how macho i can look in my jeep. lmao. let me know and ill send you directions. pluto, you're invited too if you don't have to work at the local DQ that day.
Wow, tbunder will go places that "NO ONE else would even try and go". Why try to compete with him if "NO ONE" has done what he has done (and in a stock Ranger too). I've seen some pretty crazy off-roaders try some crazy stuff too. Maybe tbunder has gone straight down the side of the Grand Canyon or something (while jumping at the same time). You can't compete with a legendary figure like that saddaddy.
"you need to do some research and read some back posts. the one where i said i would never jump a liberty. but i would out trail a TRD any day of the week."
Everytime I research your posts, I have to put on my waders to get through all the BS. Didn't you say in the past you jumped your Ranger, but then on E-bay you said it was never abused? Now you say you won't jump your Liberty? This is Deja Vu, and the never-ending cycle of your BS in this saga continues, albeit this time with your precious Liberty with a bad fuel pump!
Back off from the folks at DQ, tbundy - you could learn a thing or two from them. The kid who puts up the letters on the signs can actually write something coherent!
Here's a thought. In that comparo with the Hummer, Wrangler and Tacoma TRD, the TRD won. So if your Liberty can beat the TRD, then it can certainly beat the runner-up Wrangler, right? Oh, the irony of it all is just killing me! Go to the Wrangler boards and tell 'em your Liberty will outperform their Wranglers and see what happens!
Of all the vehicles in Jeep's line-up that can really give the TRD a run for it's money, it's the Wrangler Rubicon. With dual lockers and good tires in stock form, that is one kick-butt ride. But please spare us your nonsense about your Liberty even being in the same league as these vehicles...
The resale value of used Rangers is pretty dismal...I know: I own one. I was shocked upon learning the trade-int value from a number of different dealers here in the Midwest. DEPRESSION !!! No comparison to the resale value of a clean Taco extended cab. Rangers owners get hammered on depreciation. That is a fact, Jack. A well-cared for Toyota will retain significantly more of its retail value over a 5 year period than a Ranger. NOBODY will argue that. Check Consumer Reports, Edmunds, Kelly Blue Book, Motor Trend...they will all confirm this.
I bought my Ranger because it looked like a good truck to take me into my late teens. 8+ years later, I am glad I bought my truck because of how reliable and durable it has been over the years. I never thought of it as an investment, at least in the sense that I planned to sell it. Why would you want to sell a good truck? If you want to drive something new every 4 years, you must like car payments. Maybe you should just save a little while longer and get a full size.
pluto, you always seem to make me laugh at you. well, you're right about the Rubicon. i looked at the first one to arrive in the midwest yesterday. but putting it in the same league as a TRD is quite laughable. i looked it all over. and to be quite frank, i consider my liberty a miniature rubicon. with a traction-loc rear-end and my BFG tires, all i need is a front locker. i won't say it is as good as a rubicon off-road, nothing is or ever will be in stock trim. but with a short wheelbase, 10.2 inches of ground clearance, more power and torque, and it's short overhangs, i GUARANTEE my liberty will take you places you'll only dream of going in your long TRD with no power. your three point turns on trails will require 0 points for the liberty.
also, could you PLEASE talk about something current. this little shootout you talk about neverendingly is going on five years old. and as i have reminded you, the best a TRD tacoma could muster is third place in the latest four-wheeler shootout. it is old hat my man. i dont hear anyone praising it anymore. just like the ZR2, it's nice but it is getting to be a dinosaur in design my man.
i highly recommend the slide show as it is unstoppable action at some mall in SoCal.
oh also, my LLL is right at 13 inches even. with stock BFG sized tires. y'all probably don't even know what this number means nor will learn it. but, just fyi.
Yeah...very few pix look half-way decent. Some are laughable.....take a look at #724267....that's some great flex. Interestingly enough, I saw one picture off a Barnwell Mountain run....we are going there this weekend for 3 days of wheeling. I'll let you know how it goes. As for the mini-Rubi....I suggest you tell that to Wrangler offroaders, and see their reaction. Maybe you can find some Iowa Jeep people who can you what Liberty is worth compared to Wrangler.
jeeps that don't have lifts have stock tires on. kind of makes you wonder how they get the traction down with such crappy tires.
hey sad- i wonder what these jeepers would think of you calling their vehicles "mallrunners?" and then you telling them you dont even have four-wheel-drive....they'd laugh YOU right out of the timber.
this is flex (picture no.4 from the slide show). it doesn't get much better than this. this is nearly as far as that pic of an FX4 ranger flexing from therangerstation.com
check out the slide show (picture number 4), some wonderful pictures of awesome flex from the liberty. these are definitely not "mallrunners". although, im sure they'll take you there too. they are fabulous for groceries ill admit firsthand.
just like Tacoma ones do. I went through Tellico on stock tires. They more or less work fine in dry conditions. But they are street tires, not tires geared for offroading like TA KOs are or MT KMs. Tell me what you think about flex on photo page 1, 4th picture down on the left (gtojack L.O.S.T. #724267). Looks like we see both ends of the spectrum there.
As for LLL: Liberty Lift Line: distance from frame rails to the ground. Point of measurement is between front and rear doors. To let you know: LLL (or should I say TLL) of my Taco is 15.5 in the back, 15 in the front, and that's stock with 31s BFGs.
There I repeated it. Did you not read it the first time. I know enough about off-roading to know that 4 tires are better, when have i denied that.
And let me get this straight. You took your vehicles with AT tires and no lift to places where NO ONE else could go. Now I've heard it all. I guess you had no camera at the time. If you can get away with that BS, then I drove my 67 stang across the Golden Crack. Gimme a break.
Those guys in the pics were locked too in case you didn't see.
Why did the guys in you pic need lifts to get the same LLL measurements as stock tacomas? Hope you don't wanna go where they go since you hate lifts.
"Karen and Tim have been L.O.S.T. members from the beginning. They have a 15.75" LLL after thier Lift and Tires. They used a 1.5" internal puc with a .5" on top spacer in the front and a 2.5" puc in the rear. They have recently added some 265/75/16 Goodyear MTRs and have ARB Air Lockers front and rear. This is about as good a setup as you can have at the moment!" LMFAO, as good as it gets huh?
Did those guys upgrade their fuel pump, too? Hi flow is better right?
I don't care what you gave for flew measurements the other day, tbunder -- if u said 2 inches you were wrong. My god that is freakin pitiful. LMFAO. In all seriousness, I thought it was alot better than that. I was starting to think that you were a little bit correct, but not anymore. Damn, i can't start laughing. Maybe if they would flex with one tire up on a curb, it would be better -- thats where these vehicles feel more at home. Are any of these the lowered version, by chance?
i guess we all know what pluto really drives around down there in mexico. figures.
scorp- your two inch advantage is due to tire height. 1.7 inches to be exact.
sad- don't quite know what you are talking about, but that is a stock liberty. take your truck there, you haven't got the balls. or the axle. nonetheless, it looks like you enjoyed the pics since you posted three replies. kind of weird seeing these 4x4's in their element eh? instead of just reading about it. fyi, mine is a non-lowered liberty. the lowered ones say 4x4 on the rear swing gate. originals say it on the rear quarter. and only the hardcore lifted liberty's im assuming were locked. the other liberty's with front tow hooks just had the off-road pkg. in which you get a trac-loc rear diff. similar to the one used in the ZR2. either way, you have still pissed me off and i await your truck to pull into my driveway and away we'll go to some trails my two Z's have conquered and my three rangers respectively. oh yeah, none of my friends like lifts either, so i speak within a group of wheel and tire mod people when i say no one else would attempt. go watch cbs.
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What does that mean? Any resistance to the throttle cable is now imaginary, or unconnected to the throttle body. No more direct contact, only the resistance of any spring placed behind the pedal.
The only benefit I can see is you no longer have to adjust the throttle cable linkage with one or two twists of a screwdriver every 100,000 miles or so.
More accurate, probably. More disconnected? Sure. Another part to pay for (especially if the actuator ever fails), yes.
Maybe some day Toyota will make a Clock standard...
My truck has the same system for controlling throttle as my grandfathers car had some 17 years ago: wire runs from gas pedal to the throttle body. For all I care, it works perfectly for me. So what's next? Are we going to start picking on "well, an antenna on Tacoma is 3" shorter than on Ranger"?
We need new info on 2003 Tacos
Read at the bottom where it says ABS is disabled when the locker is engaged. Without this mod you can only engage locker in 4lo, i.e. ABS is disabled in 4lo. This was the first thing I came across so if you want another link I am sure I can find it.
Also, from experience alone I know this is how it works because I have ABS and the locker and prior to this mod it would disable ABS whenever I was in 4lo, now it disables ABS in 2hi or 4hi if the locker is engaged. It's a nice set up.
It sounds like one should buy a Taco ?? You be the judge...
scorpio- the little link you provide is humorous. first of all, couldn't you find anything newer? and second of all, you posted a link where the people chatting are hardcore jeepers and even make fun of toyota's independent front suspension. to them, anything that doesn't have a solid axle or can't climb 5 feet tall boulders shouldn't be off-road. and i would bet that their opinion of "light-duty" is more than you'll ever do in your toyota. these people are the type who do not like change so any new jeep with an independent front suspension must automatically suck. you never read anyone say that they had taken one off-road and it struggled. i have provided you with links like your buddy pluto use to post all the time which he thought was the gospel stating the liberty's off-road prowess. again, you choose what you want to believe. just like the way you fail to recognize that your front a-arms are tiny and very weak and thin compared to even the frontier's. and are you now saying you knew about the abs over-ride in the tacoma? when you didn't even know it existed earlier?
okay, now here's a link stating pretty much every spec of the liberty. what part of 10.1 inches of ground clearance don't you understand?
http://www.jeepz.com/misc/news/jeep_liberty.htm
sad- i sound dumb? who's the one bashing an off-road (and on road) designed vehicle with a real transfer case, one with a lever, when you don't even have four-wheel drive????? do you know how dumb that sounds? another thingy, check out the departure and approach angles on the liberty. a tacoma just couldn't hang with a liberty off-road. just no way. too long of a wheelbase. i sure do love my grocery hooks though. but at the same time, miss my truck bed to haul my harley. oh well, by the time it's paid off, the new ranger will be out.
also sad- i kind of thought "throttle by wire" may be the same as the technology used on the new 777, but didn't know enough to say (i actually didn't give two hoots to be honest). as stang says, just another thing to go wrong. what good is it really? do you think ford can't do this? what's the point? don't know about you, but i'd want a little more sheetmetal on my tacoma truck, who cares about a computer that controls your throttle. i bet your off-road buddies will just love that new invention huh? i can't imagine.
About pirate4x4 guys: Yeah, they are hardcore. Who do you want talking about 4x4 abilities of a vehicle? Would you rather have some middle-aged magazine writer who thinks ride quality comes before 4x4 characteristics in a -->truck<-- (not what they call trucks these days....everything from Lincoln Navigator to Subaru Forester is called a truck). I'd at least take the pirates' word with a little more confidence. The reviews you post....they are written by the same people who think Hummer 2 is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Read some edmunds reviews on it, you'll see.
And yes, thank you very much for posting a review of Jeep Liberty hosted on a site called www.jeepz.com. You complained about Toyota ads in a 4wheeler mag.....do you see anything wrong with this picture?
Here we go about A-arms again, and I thought you finally shut up about it. So.....care to bring forth ANY case of A-arms failing? If they are pencil-thin...they must break all the time. Are they?
I didn't say I knew about ABS override....read my messages, in fact I said I didn't know nor cared. Are my messages that hard to understand?
do you have any evidence showing that Toyota's A-arms break prematurely?? If not, then I think it's time to make up a new argument.
Just a reminder that every Thursday you can join the Subaru Crew for a chat session from 6-7pm PT/9-10pm ET. Stop in to talk about Subaru or just to say hello!... We had a great turnout last week, but there's always room for more, so stop by and join in this week! Hope to see you there!!
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eagle- i didn't say that the toyota a-arms are breaking, just that they are puny and tiny compared to the competition. if you don't believe me, go set a ZR2, frontier 4x4 off-road, or ranger 4x4 next to a tacoma. it's laughable.
Tbunder in all seriousness, I am having much trouble understanding your points. Why are bigger components better when smaller ones break just as little? You have made the same point with axles and now a-arms (and other areas I can't remember). What is the big deal? It just adds weight. Do you by chance know much about ATVs? There is a similar analogy with Honda ATVs. Everyone dogs on them for not bringing out 700cc bike to compete with the polaris and yamaha monstrosities. Sure they could build a bike that would compete well but they just refuse to build one that is over 600 pounds. And they have made that statement publicly. No one would be stupid enough to say that Honda doesn't make some of the best bikes around. Toyota, to me, is quite similar, although Im sure you can turn my words around so that my point goes awry.
If A-arms work, why add additional weight and spend time redesigning them?
also, im not into work ATV's. only sport ones. and right now, the new sport '03 kaw is THE coolest atv out there hands down. it just looks wicked.
you guys remember, im just defending my jeep which you guys started dogging on, calling it a mall-runner and grocery getter. you truly have to drive one to see how darn solid the whole liberty platform is. it may be one of the most rigid vehicles out there toay. and with it's own off-road pkg, it's hard to beat it on trails with its short turning radius, high GC, real skidplates and towhooks, short overhangs, and awesome V6. it's only short on the tire dept. but what new vehicle isn't sans the new hummer, FX4 ranger and ZR2 S10.
your a-arms may work, but i just feel better when i have a vehicle with huge overbuilt suspension parts. maybe that's why i had two ZR2's and now this iron cladded a-arm jeep.
If you want to feel fantastic because you have overbuilt parts everywhere, get yourself a Hummer.
And stock Liberty tires can't be put in the same category as stock Taco tires, even if we don't get BFGs. Come on now.
and who said anything about liberty vs tacoma tires. they both suck in stock form. even your beloved TRD tires are cheap and awful. get some BFG a/t's and call it a day.
http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/list/top10/71962/article.html?id=lin9126
http://www.alg.com/news-information.asp?page=news_alg_RVA
dude, you can post all the awards you want, that's fine. but the general concensus around this country is that the ranger is THE best compact pickup. it is what the people buy. in these days of easy to buy vehicles and low interest financing, it shouldn't matter what people want and what they buy. and they still buy the ranger. end of story. sure, the tacoma is a great truck; but you can't tell that to the people who plunk down the cash for rangers. wonder why.....
oh, i know...it's like the mcdonalds hamburger theory, right? oh, ok i was wrong. lmao
And stock liberty tires suck way more than stock tacoma tires, that was my point. 31 inches vs. like 3, big difference. Who said I still have my stock tires anyway?
why wouldn't you have your stock tires? why would anyone change tires on a 2wd truck? that would be ridiculous. that would be like putting dual exhaust on a mustang with a V6. a true poser.
as i stated before, it's not how big or tall your tires are, it's how your vehicle can use them. even with tires smaller than tacoma's, the liberty still has the same ground clearance (give or take a tenth of an inch) as a tacoma. i won't get into the argument of stock tires vs. stock tires. i don't play that game. i immediately yank stock tires off most vehicles. the only tires i left alone were my ZR2's tires, as they put true off-road tires on those trucks, just like the ranger FX4. no car tire ride rubber bs like tacomas. what's with that anyways? a big bad off-road pkg like the TRD, and they don't even put on LT rated tires.....way cheap. i can understand it on the liberty as they want it to ride smoother. but since LT rated tires are available on ford's and chevy's, you'd think toyota would follow suit. i guess it shows how far they want you to wander out in the rough pastures and wooded areas with thorns everywhere.
http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/bestbet/articles/index.html?id=lin0841
Funny the only used Toyota on that page is a Sienna...
That might say a little about the reliability and longevity of a Ranger. Especially one that has been around the block a few times.
;-) You'll get laughed off the strip... !!!! I saw a fat-tired Liberty the other day..LAUGHABLE !! It was hilarious !
Well, after over 65,000 trouble free, offroading miles/highway miles ect.. my Ranger purrs like a kitten and is as reliable as the day I bought it.
I paid over 3,000 dollars less for my Ranger back in 1998 when comparing a like optioned Tacoma. I would say I got one heck of a deal, value and am damn glad I didn't fall for your Toyota preaching.. So, you Toyota fans keep throwing your money away at this percieved reliability advantage and giving Toyota record profits.. I'll keep my money.
Looking at resale of my Truck. Doesn't look to bad either.. You Toyota fans paid more, I sure hope resale is better....
Stang - I didn't intend to insult the Ranger's value as a used vehicle. I like the Ranger. I was just pointing out that the Tacoma is a more desired and valuable used truck than the Ranger. I was really attempting to have Tbunder use his superior Jim and Tammy College (or whatever school he brags about) education to explain why the Tacoma is apparently a more desired used vehicle yet he claims that everyone would rather buy a used Ranger. I would like to hear a logical argument supporting that premise.
Have you forgotten that I defended your purchase when everyone was doggin you. The only time I got mad was when you said that you could out off-road a trd tacoma - a statement you have since backed down from. What gives?
I applaud you for buying something that was best for your family. That takes a real man to do, and I imagine it was tuff with all the good trucks out there now. I know I may someday have to do it. But leave it at that and don't say that you can outdo any trds off-road cuz its a complete and utter lie and u know it.
pluto- since you have crawled back out of your hole, you need to do some research and read some back posts. the one where i said i would never jump a liberty. but i would out trail a TRD any day of the week.
sad- one more thing. you obviously don't know who you're talking to. i have taken my ZR2's and rangers places NO ONE else would even try and go. and i made it- with my BFG tires. so dog me and try and discount me in every way possible, but the truth of the matter is my liberty can and will go any place a 4x4 TRD can go and more. there's only one. try reading four-wheeler magazine if you want to see how good the liberty is off-road.
frey- the challenge is for you too. put your money where your mouth is. i have trails awaiting us. we'll just see how macho i can look in my jeep. lmao.
let me know and ill send you directions. pluto, you're invited too if you don't have to work at the local DQ that day.
Everytime I research your posts, I have to put on my waders to get through all the BS. Didn't you say in the past you jumped your Ranger, but then on E-bay you said it was never abused? Now you say you won't jump your Liberty? This is Deja Vu, and the never-ending cycle of your BS in this saga continues, albeit this time with your precious Liberty with a bad fuel pump!
Back off from the folks at DQ, tbundy - you could learn a thing or two from them. The kid who puts up the letters on the signs can actually write something coherent!
Here's a thought. In that comparo with the Hummer, Wrangler and Tacoma TRD, the TRD won. So if your Liberty can beat the TRD, then it can certainly beat the runner-up Wrangler, right? Oh, the irony of it all is just killing me! Go to the Wrangler boards and tell 'em your Liberty will outperform their Wranglers and see what happens!
Of all the vehicles in Jeep's line-up that can really give the TRD a run for it's money, it's the Wrangler Rubicon. With dual lockers and good tires in stock form, that is one kick-butt ride. But please spare us your nonsense about your Liberty even being in the same league as these vehicles...
also, could you PLEASE talk about something current. this little shootout you talk about neverendingly is going on five years old. and as i have reminded you, the best a TRD tacoma could muster is third place in the latest four-wheeler shootout. it is old hat my man. i dont hear anyone praising it anymore. just like the ZR2, it's nice but it is getting to be a dinosaur in design my man.
just click here:
http://www.kjjeep.com/index.html
i highly recommend the slide show as it is unstoppable action at some mall in SoCal.
oh also, my LLL is right at 13 inches even. with stock BFG sized tires. y'all probably don't even know what this number means nor will learn it. but, just fyi.
Some are laughable.....take a look at #724267....that's some great flex. Interestingly enough, I saw one picture off a Barnwell Mountain run....we are going there this weekend for 3 days of wheeling. I'll let you know how it goes.
As for the mini-Rubi....I suggest you tell that to Wrangler offroaders, and see their reaction. Maybe you can find some Iowa Jeep people who can you what Liberty is worth compared to Wrangler.
hey sad- i wonder what these jeepers would think of you calling their vehicles "mallrunners?" and then you telling them you dont even have four-wheel-drive....they'd laugh YOU right out of the timber.
this is flex (picture no.4 from the slide show). it doesn't get much better than this. this is nearly as far as that pic of an FX4 ranger flexing from therangerstation.com
check out the slide show (picture number 4), some wonderful pictures of awesome flex from the liberty. these are definitely not "mallrunners". although, im sure they'll take you there too. they are fabulous for groceries ill admit firsthand.
I went through Tellico on stock tires. They more or less work fine in dry conditions. But they are street tires, not tires geared for offroading like TA KOs are or MT KMs.
Tell me what you think about flex on photo page 1, 4th picture down on the left (gtojack L.O.S.T. #724267). Looks like we see both ends of the spectrum there.
As for LLL: Liberty Lift Line: distance from frame rails to the ground. Point of measurement is between front and rear doors.
To let you know: LLL (or should I say TLL) of my Taco is 15.5 in the back, 15 in the front, and that's stock with 31s BFGs.
And let me get this straight. You took your vehicles with AT tires and no lift to places where NO ONE else could go. Now I've heard it all. I guess you had no camera at the time. If you can get away with that BS, then I drove my 67 stang across the Golden Crack. Gimme a break.
Those guys in the pics were locked too in case you didn't see.
Why did the guys in you pic need lifts to get the same LLL measurements as stock tacomas? Hope you don't wanna go where they go since you hate lifts.
"Karen and Tim have been L.O.S.T. members from the beginning. They have a 15.75" LLL after thier Lift and Tires. They used a 1.5" internal puc with a .5" on top spacer in the front and a 2.5" puc in the rear. They have recently added some 265/75/16 Goodyear MTRs and have ARB Air Lockers front and rear. This is about as good a setup as you can have at the moment!" LMFAO, as good as it gets huh?
Did those guys upgrade their fuel pump, too? Hi flow is better right?
I don't care what you gave for flew measurements the other day, tbunder -- if u said 2 inches you were wrong. My god that is freakin pitiful. LMFAO. In all seriousness, I thought it was alot better than that. I was starting to think that you were a little bit correct, but not anymore. Damn, i can't start laughing. Maybe if they would flex with one tire up on a curb, it would be better -- thats where these vehicles feel more at home. Are any of these the lowered version, by chance?
scorp- your two inch advantage is due to tire height. 1.7 inches to be exact.
sad- don't quite know what you are talking about, but that is a stock liberty. take your truck there, you haven't got the balls. or the axle. nonetheless, it looks like you enjoyed the pics since you posted three replies. kind of weird seeing these 4x4's in their element eh? instead of just reading about it. fyi, mine is a non-lowered liberty. the lowered ones say 4x4 on the rear swing gate. originals say it on the rear quarter. and only the hardcore lifted liberty's im assuming were locked. the other liberty's with front tow hooks just had the off-road pkg. in which you get a trac-loc rear diff. similar to the one used in the ZR2. either way, you have still pissed me off and i await your truck to pull into my driveway and away we'll go to some trails my two Z's have conquered and my three rangers respectively. oh yeah, none of my friends like lifts either, so i speak within a group of wheel and tire mod people when i say no one else would attempt. go watch cbs.