ropedart: Yeah, 5spd 2wd sounds like a lot more fun. Problem is the wife wants something she can drive as well and she doesn't drive manual. So here she gets the Pilot, and she gets to decide my transmission!
Actually, Honda needs to put the Accord v6 in the E and with the 5 spd auto! Hey, if they can sell V6s to GM for the Saturn SUV, then why not for the E? The Honda sixes are glorious in sound and power!
Well for those who are sold on E, the market is softening. Salesman said the Es only last 7 days before they are sold but they had 3 in the front lot, and he wanted me to take it for a solo drive. That Honda dealer was sooooo nice, they must be overstocked....;-)
Varmint where are you? You still looking at Highlanders? May not be an E, or a Honda but its got a V6 :-)
Moonkat - Nope. I've pretty much decided that the Pilot would be the way to go. That is, unless Toyota decides to put a hybrid system in Highlander sometime soon. The Element doesn't have enough cargo capacity with the seats in place. I need space for two large dogs AND passenger capacity at the same time.
I was just starting to think that I might give up my off-road habit and get an AWD van or wagon, but we had almost 14" of snow dumped on us this weekend. It reminded me just how useful that extra ground clearance can be.
Varmint: Good for you buddy! I hear you about ground clearance & AWD. I drove in Paisan's snow storm and the Pilot is start & go. Forget about shoveling the driveway; just drive on it! Love that motor with the 5spd....vroom, vroom, vroom! And gas mileage seems to be not much worse than E!
I am still thinking about getting a Pilot for myself as the wife won't let go of hers....she says "touch it and lose it at the elbow". But then again she also says get one for yourself, so it could be worse ;-) Now to find one near invoice... .
$19,675 including destination. Advertised in Chicago Sun Times and verified correct by phone. Best price I've seen so I'm sharing the info. with the group. Dealership is Grand Honda in Chicago area. www.grandhonda.com Their website is terrible:(
Paisan - Good tires and AWD will get you through normal snow. But not abormal snow. They will not prevent you from getting high-centered.
Truth be told, you don't need AWD. My CR-V is only the second AWD vehicle I've owned. In the past, I've driven mostly FWD and one old RWD through plenty of snow. My wife's TL with FWD and traction control has performed admirably in the snow.
And good tires, while strongly recommended, are not required either. My old Cavalier Z24 got me through many a snow storm with wide tires that barely had any tread left. It was difficult, and not very smart, but I did it.
Anyway... I live in a fairly rural section of town. Often times, our street is not plowed by the time we return home from work. They do, however, plow the main road and leave a nice tall berm at the end of our street. While our TL was able to get through the light, fluffy stuff by plowing it out of the way, the car never would have cleared this snow bank. My wife only made it through because myself and others with large vehicles had mowed it down. All her life, she has depended on the kindness of strangers... not me.
AWD, good tires, and ground clearance are just three tools for different foul weather situations. None are essential, but I like to have all three.
Be careful to read the fine print - or better yet, if you a serious buyer try to get it in writing (which is virtually impossible unless you have check in hand so any of those "we'll beat any other dealer's written price by $500" are a scam). Is the vehicle in stock or will you have to wait 6 weeks to get it?? I too saw some ads for below list "fully" loaded models - the word "loaded" is very subjective and I suspect the person who wrote the ad copy was in fact "loaded" . One dealer advertised an DX with leather (must be outsourced) for what seemed a bargain price. I called and the advertised price (and note that Illinois has fairly strict laws as to what must be disclosed) did not include the $2k of dealer installed accessories, delivery, dealer prep and - get this - fabric protector!!
For the price of $19,675 what was included was a 2003 Element EX 4WD automatic with no accessories and destination is included in the price. There is an additional doc fee of about $50 dollars that was not included in the price. The vehicle is (or was) in stock and I am not sure if they will give the same price for other in stock Elements. I do not believe there are any "pricing games" involved and if anyone who lives in IL would happen to encounter a dealer playing pricing games I would encourage them to contact the IL attorney general as they agressively prosecute auto dealers for advertising fraud.
Finally got to climb inside one of these puppies, almost a full year after seeing it at the NY Auto Show (last April).
Dislikes? Payload is 675 lbs, so I guess they expect you to stuff that enormous cargo area with foam peanuts or hot air balloons. People are gonna exceed that payload regularly. The seat belt on the rear door, plus the 4 passenger capacity, are the other bummers. It's just not set up well for family use. Active singles, maybe. And that is one strange moonroof, I didn't realize it was manual and had to be stowed when removed. I have an aftermarket roof that's like that and it's a pain.
Likes? It has presence, you can't help but stare at it. I put my nails to the bumpers and - they were just fine. Didn't see what everyone has been complaining about. How hard are you folks scratching anyway? I *love* the rear tailgate setup. You get a rain shelter, plus a little tailgate, and a clever little piece that folds out to fill the crack when the door is opened. Finally, those wheels and tires look appropriately beefy. The CR-V next to it seemed envious.
It's not for me, but if my little brother fell in love I'd recommend it to him (single, 17, college student).
What is one person's pleasure is another person's pain. You list dislikes of payload capacity, seat belt location, 4 person capacity and moonroof location. You also noted that you don't think its a good family vehicle.
Alright, I give you payload seems low but when is the last time you had your car fully occupied up to payload capacity?? I've had our Element packed with lots of boxes and heavy stuff (we're in the process of moving) and haven't had any problems (does not bottom out). The seat belt location is somewhat of a problem, especially driver's side - it doesn't always want to retract. For us, the 4 person capacity is a 100% improvement over the car we replaced with the Element (a Z3 which we still have). We have used our Element on several ocassions with 2 car seats in the back for our two kids (our 2 y.o. loves the location of the moonroof because he can see the moon, stars, airplanes etc.) and the fold flat front seats make a great place for changing diapers (as does the voluminous floor space between the front and rear seats)!
Perfect? No. Practical? Yes.
And in case any of you think I work for or am affiliated with Honda (due to my very favorable comments on this site now and in the past), the answer is NO and I've never owned a Honda product before.
"Alright, I give you payload seems low but when is the last time you had your car fully occupied up to payload capacity?? "
How about when loading yard supplies like fertilizer, compost, and the other yard stuff that comes in 50 lb bags?
For example, I had to pick 25 bags of compost for our garden and with only myself driving our CRV, it took 2 trips to carry a maximum of 12 50 lb bags per trip. At 600 lbs, plus 200lbs for the driver, our CRV was almost fully loaded. The CRV plain gray interior is one of the reasons we bought it - to be able to haul yard supplies without worrying about a velour or leather interior getting messed up.
O.K. How many times per year do your need to transport 25 fifty pound bags of compost?? If it's more than once or twice per year the Element is probably not the appropriate vehicle. There was some discussion previously about how to calculate payload - i.e., does it include driver passenger weight, does it include or assume full fuel/fluid levels?? I don't think any conclusion was reached and I would bet that Honda erred on the low side when setting the payload capacity (this being a litigious society and all).
you could have seen how low the CRV was riding in the back. While it didn't rub the wheels, it was clear to me that the CRV wasn't designed to run very often at near payload capacity. Acceleration was not too bad, but braking was appreciably degraded.
I usually make 3 trips a year for yard/garden supplies - fall, late winter and spring. When I see plain interiors, or plastic ones designed to wash out with a garden hose, coupled with a box on wheels design, I tend to think of it as a utility vehicle.
25 50 lb bags. WOW, what you need is a pickup. Heck, even my 4WD truck only has a 1500 lb payload and that is with a 190HP V6. If anyone needs to haul 1000 plus pounds of cargo regularly then the Element is not the right vehicle. But don't worry, Honda is making a pickup for 2005.
Most people only need to haul that much weight once or twice a year. You can rent trucks at Home Depot and Lowes $19.99 for 75 minutes. I would much rather drive a CR-V/Element 363 days out of the year and those 2 days I need to haul more than they can handle there's a truck waiting on me that I don't have to worry about scratching the interior of.
it was a 4wd, 1500 lb payload. But it was not a quad cab, so when 1st child came along, the pickup had to go! 2 Trips on the CRV cut down the load to 600 lbs of cargo, which isn't a lot if you do much yard or garden work at all. If Honda does build a pickup, they might consider building a solid rear axle product, otherwise, they might find themselves with a lot of warranty work.
I read the reviews and posts on the Element, with most stating that the AWD Auto was not peppy. It all depends on what your frame of reference is. Compared to my 2000 Civic (abt 125 hp), it is a bit peppier. Compared to my friends Mustang GT, of course not. But compared to a '98 Dodge Ram I had with a gas guzzling V8, it is peppier. For me, it had the style I was looking for, an adequate compromise in gas mileage, and the room I needed to haul my 2 kids to school, band, cheerleading, etc. Just bough it on Friday, 2-7, so far we all love it.
I max out my payload all the time, actually. I haul everything - carpet remnants to the dump (Sunday night, so less than 48 hours ago), sections of fence, lumber, bulk trash, a clothes washer, a dryer, a double dresser, an organ, wood chips, mulch, etc.
Not every day, but maybe once or twice a month. And no, thanks, I don't want to drive a big fat honking heavy duty 3500 Maxi-beef guzzling pickup the other 29 days of the month.
And those are the types of jobs the Element could accomplish with ease given it's boxy shape and wipe-clean interior. Just seems like a shame to have the lowest limit I've ever heard of. The RAV4 has the same problem - plenty of space but a low weight limit. 675 lbs includes the driver (trucks are required to display the total payload in the door jamb), so I'm left with a paltry 455 lbs for cargo. That's not even the 10 bags of sand for the sand box I need to fill up. 2 trips I guess.
LOL, Z3. BTW, I have a Miata, too, so even that Z3 seems practical to me (more legroom and cargo space). :-)
But seriously, the Element competes with other 5 seaters. Any how, I do agree that most likely Honda's lawyers were conservative setting the limit, perhaps to discourage people from cramming things inside.
But why then is the CR-V rated much higher? The Element gets higher spring rates, and beefier tires, so I sort of expected the opposite - more payload.
Seriously, the Element is marketed by Honda as a versatile passenger hauler not a work truck. quote Honda- The removable flip-up rear seats let you configure the Element to fit most road-trip essentials, including your favorite taco sauce. And you can expect quick, simple loading of bikes, boards and more with the clamshell tailgate and side cargo doors. So grab your friends, stow your gear and get gone. Playtime just got easier. -end quote.
Intended use is people and road trip or recreation items. Not "I haul everything - carpet remnants to the dump (Sunday night, so less than 48 hours ago), sections of fence, lumber, bulk trash, a clothes washer, a dryer, a double dresser, an organ, wood chips, mulch, etc.". Either get a trailer, get a pickup or stop expecting an Element to do the job of a pickup or work van. There are plenty of vehicles that will seat 4 and either haul cargo in a bed or will pull a trailer.
I don't think that is exactly the message Juice was trying to get across. He's simply stating that it wouldn't be uncommon for him to reach the Element's published limits. It wouldn't be rare for me either. Though I tend to haul lighter, more awkward stuff, than purely heavy items.
That said, I think the use of a trailer would meet most of the extreme needs. The Element has enough capacity to handle the weekend sports it was designed to accommodate.
varmint: yeah, but they seemed to beef up the platform (stiffer springs and bigger tires with a higher load rating), so I'm surprised the payload didn't at least remain the same as the CR-V.
Toss a tarp and haul that stuff inside, no cleaning! Element is perfect for those types of jobs. Why else have that interior? The acoustic qualities?
A trailer doesn't run cheap, especially if you get the trailer brakes recommended for loads over 1000 lbs by just about every manufacturer. In MD you also have to register it seperately, insure it, etc. It's a big hassle.
Though I don't mind borrowing a friend's (Bob's) once in a while for ever bigger jobs! :-)
Any how, the bigger point is payload is limited, that limits the versatility of what is potentially the most versatile vehicle in its class. That's all I'm saying.
By the way, don't get me wrong, I still liked it, like I said I'd recommend it to someone like my brother.
well I'm breaking down and buying a used civic (maybe) I wanted to like the element , and I don't hate it, but its just like every other car I've seen everything seems so average, the 2 biggest draws to me are the tailgate and the fold up seats , and i just cant justify buying it over a crv unless resale ends up being better , which i find doubtful even this civic I'm probably going to buy (if this crazy lady doesn't scare me off) doesn't excite me , and if it falls through I' wont be terribly dissapointed im just not excited about it , but it appears to be a good fair deal at a reasonable price. I was planning on getting new and if this doesn't work out , and I have much more trouble out of trying to find a good "trustworthy used car" I'll break down and buy a new civic
"I think I'm like chris777. My head is spinning around different vehicles. The CRV, Xterra, Land Rover Disco, Mazda MPV, Suzuki XL7, Mits Outlander, Escape, VW Eurovan, etc. I like the Element mainly because I'm bored. "
yup its one of those things where it almost makes me want to learn how to design a car so I could just make what I want, but by the time I'd go through school for it, Id be ready to invent something else entirely lol
"Bottom line, not enough power for me. Now leaning to an 03 Accord V6. Sigh....:-|"
well I still haven't driven an accd yet, (I've been avoiding dealers since I was burned last month and my bs meter is busted from overload)
but I do more driving than I'd like , and from what I hear about that "lazy boy " seat in the accord I think I may just buy one if honda does the unthinkable (240 hp v6 WAGON) so I figure I'll buy a fairly recent used civic to keep from having new car depreciation (2000 lx w/ about 44k on it $8700) , plus I dont like how much accords are on insurance, that's on of the things stopping me from getting one of those now instead of later. I checked on a 94 accd from a family member and the insurance is higher than it would be on this 2000 civic , which i plan on getting and then just saving up to pay cash on a new car out right in a couple of years if I don't get this one , honda has until summer to shave about 4000 off of an element , or offer another crv for around 16500 or less and I might buy that, its a shame too.
what's really bad is the scion bbx is looking more interesting, but I definitely don't like the horsepower listed on it.
I still would like to see something similar to the step wagon, which it looks like honda "borrowed" the elements fold up seats from, with a tailgate and ample power I would be hooked I still think a sport utility van would be awesome ,I still love the old toyota wagovans (safety issues aside) I think it would rock with a v6, and some 16 or 17 inchers and awd to boot, but I know thats dreaming
so I reckon im out on the element, unless it gets a severe discount, 2 or 3 generations with enough modifications (v6) , or a redesign (2007 or 8?)
so I'll buy something b4 summer, and hope, for lattitude, an accord wagon or maby something else if someone decides to shake the market up a bit the dodge magnum looks interesting (hope the accord guys are listening) that is unless I win an element in a local contest , i think I would find it acceptable for a 5 buck ticket lol
Hey all, the World's First Element Rally is only a few days away! We're meeting at 11:00 am this Saturday (2/15) at the Caddyshack in St. Augustine, FL. The Caddyshack is located in the World Golf Village just off I-95. After lunch we'll be convoying over to South St. Augustine Beach for some beach driving! I know of at least one E that will be in attendance, so if a second E shows up that will constitute the World's First Element Rally Forecast for this Saturday is 72deg, partly cloudy, and only a 10% chance of rain - so it should be a great day. Hope to see ya there!
Speaking of which I am trying to get out of my 89 Civic Si 5spd. It still screams though. I redlined it the first minute I got it and still redline the thing to this day. Everytime I drive into a dealership some sales guy says "I have a buyer for your car" Is that a line or what?
Sometimes I hated the lack of power steering and clutching the thing in stop and go traffic. I think I'm going to miss though. Can move a sofa through the hatchback.
Lets get a perspective on the payload. Its for activities not moving gardening supplies. Geez. Its to take light alloy performance bikes not patio stones. Its to take surf or snow boards not drywall. The boomers are going to ruin this car although they are the only ones who can afford it.
I'm going with the autobox Element because I'm in cruising mode and not racing mode. Life's too short.
ropedart.. it's not a line. Those SI's are in high demand especially if they have been well cared for. Same goes for the CRX SI's and even the 93-95 hatches.
gator: I could see people's reaction to an Element convoy. They would swear we were getting attacked by aliens.
The number of excuses why you can't haul yard supplies in your Element/CRV. Vehicles that are supposed to offer Utility (sUv). Buy a pickup (had one) buy a trailer (don't want one). Looks like cargo weight should carry a disclaimer "use only for aluminum chairs, bikes and people. No yard supplies - if you haul anything else, rent a trailer or buy a truck."
btw, varmint, the compost is sterilized and sealed in plastic bags, no odor. Yard fertilizer, in contrast, is much more aromatic. That was one example of hauling common supplies in response to a question of how often one might haul near maximum cargo weight. Unless you live in a condo or apartment, cargo hauling is part of living in a home.
Seriously, the Element is marketed by Honda as a versatile passenger hauler not a work truck. quote Honda- The removable flip-up rear seats let you configure the Element to fit most road-trip essentials, including your favorite taco sauce. And you can expect quick, simple loading of bikes, boards and more with the clamshell tailgate and side cargo doors. So grab your friends, stow your gear and get gone. Playtime just got easier. -end quote.
Intended use is people and road trip or recreation items.
Hmm I guess this means that it should be considered as a "play" car or an "extra" car. Anyone rich enough to have the Element as thier road-trip car is not likely going to be buying a honda. When I think of roadtrip vehicle I'm thinking Conversion Van!
Well, my brother does owe me money! And he's unemployed - the target Element customer! LOL
ropedart: the extreme sports look great on brochures and commercials, but let's face it - those booomers end up going to Home Depot ten times as often.
Even if you don't haul mulch, 675 lbs pretty much limits you to 3 big guys as passengers. Just 2 if they're linemen.
Back to the trailer idea, though, Honda could make a matching trailer, sort of like what the Prowler had, remember those?
paisan is still drooling over the huge, full-size conversion they had at the Baltimore Auto Show. That thing had the works on it, including TWO televisions.
I guess you could watch extreme sports on them! :-)
"Amusing it is, The number of excuses why you can't haul yard supplies in your Element/CRV."
Hey jondavid, I haul stuff all the time in my CR-V, see pic below A couple months ago I bought one of those giant Weider exercise gyms (model 16.6 in case any one is curious) and the guys at the store were amazed when we were able to fit it in my CR-V. We had to leave the glass hatch open and the end of the box was able to squeeze through the opening. The guys at the sports store said people with much bigger SUVs ended up having to pay for delivery when they realized they couldn't get it home in their big SUV. I think Honda's numbers are a bit on the conservative side.
When people talk about how nice is the element cus, they have "washable" seat and floor, do the element has drain hole or something on that matter. well I would have to see but, isn't under that plastic some sort of insulation that would get wet or, if they are talking about using a damp rag to clean up "Hey my 02 crv floor and seats are washable too" Greeting from sunny Miami. "fig"
They are talking about using a soapy wet rag to "wash" the floor, not pouring gallons of watter on the floor or running a hose through the interior. There are no drains inside to let the water run out.
Wash out the interior/floor with a low pressure hose while the E is on a slight incline and you won't need any drain holes. I have a mint 76 TR-6 which, although it does have carpet which is not washable, does have drain holes under each floor mat (rubber plugs about 2" in diameter that pop out). You may be able to do something like that on the Element.
i've been telling my customers that very same thing. sponge or washcloth normally, but park it facing uphill, open the tailgate, and spray the floor right off.
My sympathies (& quote) re your dEpression: But if there was the time to shop Honda dealers, now is it.....
My local neighborhood dealer who turned me off twice and lost sales of an Odyssey and Pilot now is my best friend and wants me to take a vehicle home with me for an extended test drive. Then a web sales manager sent me a 2.9% loan offer along with $100 over invoice for an EX V6.
Looks like the trailer stayed at home:) That's higher than mine was piled. Bags were denser and only came up to around the top of the back seat, heightwise.
I think Honda dealers just saw the new Sienna at the Chicago auto show and that put their egos back in check. The Yoda leap frogged the Ody big time - AWD available, rear windows that open, and a split folding 3rd row. It's got a longer powertrain warranty and the sliding door tracks are hidden. That's 5 things on the to-do list for the next Ody.
They're not even in dealers yet, but it's going to have a big impact IMO.
I'd taken my wife to look at the Ody and it was 8:45 and the dealer was closing at 9, so they said we needed to make an appointment for a test drive, plus pay MSRP, plus wait 2 months for delivery. I don't ever want to make a business deal when the cards are stacked up like that against me.
I did walk in a test drive a Pilot, though. Apparently each dealer gets one that is not available for sale, so people can walk in a test drive them. Wait lists at the time.
Competition is a good thing. Demand cools and dealers discount and offer better terms.
It's not just Toyota. cars.com has coverage of the Chicago auto show, and they have pictures of the Mercury Monterey. Disappearing 3rd row, but it doesn't look like it's split. And the interior design actually looks decent.
well as it stands now I have a used civic lx (2000) with about 44k. for $8700 slated to close on Tuesday. The seller owes just shy of $9200 and is paying the balance to unload the car, I'm having a local dealer inspect it on Tuesday and as long as nothing major shows up I reckon im buying it. its weird I keep going back and fourth on it with good feelings and nervousness. (like I have every car I've seen the past couple of years lol)
on one hand it's not what I want, it's used, and compared to some used accords I've recently driven its under powered
on the other hand I guess it's a pretty good price gas mileage should be very good, plus including insurance my payments should be under $250 so i should be able to double up payments , or save up more money during this time. (interesting side note the insurance is cheaper on a 2000 lx civic than a 1994 accord with anti lock brakes)
so unless this lady decides to back out or someone offers her more , or something major turns up in the inspection ,I figure I'll drive this car the next 2-5 years. save up as much cash as possible and if something interesting (accord wagon, v6 crv, cheap oddy, or pilot or of all things I saw an interesting looking ford of all things [freestyle] the magnum looks intriguing as well and who knows what else like the scion twins) comes along I would actually prefer a new model get at least one year of revisions so I don't inherit all the bugs of a new model.
I definitely wouldn't mind seeing a crv with a tailgate and fold up seats like the element (hint hint) I really do think it was a great concept I was just disappointed with the execution, I really hope Honda doesn't feel too burned to experiment more.
with the apparent "flop" status of the SI I have a feeling any hope of a civic hatch 3 or 5 door are dead in the water unless hatches become the next big thing
so I guess I'm settling on a plain jane old civic for now........
That Civic will have very low ownership costs. You'll probably recover almost what you paid for it in a couple of years (if you sell), it'll use little regular gas, have few repairs, etc. I doubt you'll regret spending too little.
Even if you do, sell it and get the Element later, once it has a proven track record and starts being discounted.
Chris, I have a 2000 civic SE (lx + some options) with about 40k miles. The purchase price was CDN $17,500 and my dealer told me two months ago I can get somewhere around CND 12-13k (8k USD) if I decided to trade it in. Five grands depreciated after 3.x years, not bad especially for the first three years.
Problems with my civic? The only thing I notice in the 3.x years of ownership is that this car is now quieter than when it was new and has better gas mileage now. Me too, am saving money with my civic and get ready for the next move. Happy civicing ;-)
Comments
Yeah, 5spd 2wd sounds like a lot more fun. Problem is the wife wants something she can drive as well and she doesn't drive manual. So here she gets the Pilot, and she gets to decide my transmission!
Actually, Honda needs to put the Accord v6 in the E and with the 5 spd auto! Hey, if they can sell V6s to GM for the Saturn SUV, then why not for the E? The Honda sixes are glorious in sound and power!
Well for those who are sold on E, the market is softening. Salesman said the Es only last 7 days before they are sold but they had 3 in the front lot, and he wanted me to take it for a solo drive. That Honda dealer was sooooo nice, they must be overstocked....;-)
Varmint where are you? You still looking at Highlanders? May not be an E, or a Honda but its got a V6 :-)
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I was just starting to think that I might give up my off-road habit and get an AWD van or wagon, but we had almost 14" of snow dumped on us this weekend. It reminded me just how useful that extra ground clearance can be.
I drove down to Baltimore in 8"-10" of snow with my SVX which has 4.X inches of ground clearance!
You DON'T need an SUV to drive in snow, just proper tires and AWD
-mike
Good for you buddy!
I hear you about ground clearance & AWD. I drove in Paisan's snow storm and the Pilot is start & go. Forget about shoveling the driveway; just drive on it! Love that motor with the 5spd....vroom, vroom, vroom! And gas mileage seems to be not much worse than E!
I am still thinking about getting a Pilot for myself as the wife won't let go of hers....she says "touch it and lose it at the elbow". But then again she also says get one for yourself, so it could be worse ;-) Now to find one near invoice...
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Truth be told, you don't need AWD. My CR-V is only the second AWD vehicle I've owned. In the past, I've driven mostly FWD and one old RWD through plenty of snow. My wife's TL with FWD and traction control has performed admirably in the snow.
And good tires, while strongly recommended, are not required either. My old Cavalier Z24 got me through many a snow storm with wide tires that barely had any tread left. It was difficult, and not very smart, but I did it.
Anyway... I live in a fairly rural section of town. Often times, our street is not plowed by the time we return home from work. They do, however, plow the main road and leave a nice tall berm at the end of our street. While our TL was able to get through the light, fluffy stuff by plowing it out of the way, the car never would have cleared this snow bank. My wife only made it through because myself and others with large vehicles had mowed it down. All her life, she has depended on the kindness of strangers... not me.
AWD, good tires, and ground clearance are just three tools for different foul weather situations. None are essential, but I like to have all three.
The vehicle is (or was) in stock and I am not sure if they will give the same price for other in stock Elements. I do not believe there are any "pricing games" involved and if anyone who lives in IL would happen to encounter a dealer playing pricing games I would encourage them to contact the IL attorney general as they agressively prosecute auto dealers for advertising fraud.
Dislikes? Payload is 675 lbs, so I guess they expect you to stuff that enormous cargo area with foam peanuts or hot air balloons. People are gonna exceed that payload regularly. The seat belt on the rear door, plus the 4 passenger capacity, are the other bummers. It's just not set up well for family use. Active singles, maybe. And that is one strange moonroof, I didn't realize it was manual and had to be stowed when removed. I have an aftermarket roof that's like that and it's a pain.
Likes? It has presence, you can't help but stare at it. I put my nails to the bumpers and - they were just fine. Didn't see what everyone has been complaining about. How hard are you folks scratching anyway? I *love* the rear tailgate setup. You get a rain shelter, plus a little tailgate, and a clever little piece that folds out to fill the crack when the door is opened. Finally, those wheels and tires look appropriately beefy. The CR-V next to it seemed envious.
It's not for me, but if my little brother fell in love I'd recommend it to him (single, 17, college student).
-juice
Alright, I give you payload seems low but when is the last time you had your car fully occupied up to payload capacity?? I've had our Element packed with lots of boxes and heavy stuff (we're in the process of moving) and haven't had any problems (does not bottom out). The seat belt location is somewhat of a problem, especially driver's side - it doesn't always want to retract. For us, the 4 person capacity is a 100% improvement over the car we replaced with the Element (a Z3 which we still have). We have used our Element on several ocassions with 2 car seats in the back for our two kids (our 2 y.o. loves the location of the moonroof because he can see the moon, stars, airplanes etc.) and the fold flat front seats make a great place for changing diapers (as does the voluminous floor space between the front and rear seats)!
Perfect? No. Practical? Yes.
And in case any of you think I work for or am affiliated with Honda (due to my very favorable comments on this site now and in the past), the answer is NO and I've never owned a Honda product before.
How about when loading yard supplies like fertilizer, compost, and the other yard stuff that comes in 50 lb bags?
For example, I had to pick 25 bags of compost for our garden and with only myself driving our CRV, it took 2 trips to carry a maximum of 12 50 lb bags per trip. At 600 lbs, plus 200lbs for the driver, our CRV was almost fully loaded. The CRV plain gray interior is one of the reasons we bought it - to be able to haul yard supplies without worrying about a velour or leather interior getting messed up.
I usually make 3 trips a year for yard/garden supplies - fall, late winter and spring. When I see plain interiors, or plastic ones designed to wash out with a garden hose, coupled with a box on wheels design, I tend to think of it as a utility vehicle.
If anyone needs to haul 1000 plus pounds of cargo regularly then the Element is not the right vehicle. But don't worry, Honda is making a pickup for 2005.
Not every day, but maybe once or twice a month. And no, thanks, I don't want to drive a big fat honking heavy duty 3500 Maxi-beef guzzling pickup the other 29 days of the month.
And those are the types of jobs the Element could accomplish with ease given it's boxy shape and wipe-clean interior. Just seems like a shame to have the lowest limit I've ever heard of. The RAV4 has the same problem - plenty of space but a low weight limit. 675 lbs includes the driver (trucks are required to display the total payload in the door jamb), so I'm left with a paltry 455 lbs for cargo. That's not even the 10 bags of sand for the sand box I need to fill up. 2 trips I guess.
LOL, Z3. BTW, I have a Miata, too, so even that Z3 seems practical to me (more legroom and cargo space). :-)
But seriously, the Element competes with other 5 seaters. Any how, I do agree that most likely Honda's lawyers were conservative setting the limit, perhaps to discourage people from cramming things inside.
But why then is the CR-V rated much higher? The Element gets higher spring rates, and beefier tires, so I sort of expected the opposite - more payload.
-juice
As for 25 bags of compost... get a utility trailer and tow it. Regardless of scratch-proofing, who wants that inside their car!?!?
quote Honda- The removable flip-up rear seats let you configure the Element to fit most road-trip essentials, including your favorite taco sauce. And you can expect quick, simple loading of bikes, boards and more with the clamshell tailgate and side cargo doors. So grab your friends, stow your gear and get gone. Playtime just got easier. -end quote.
Intended use is people and road trip or recreation items.
Not "I haul everything - carpet remnants to the dump (Sunday night, so less than 48 hours ago), sections of fence, lumber, bulk trash, a clothes washer, a dryer, a double dresser, an organ, wood chips, mulch, etc.".
Either get a trailer, get a pickup or stop expecting an Element to do the job of a pickup or work van. There are plenty of vehicles that will seat 4 and either haul cargo in a bed or will pull a trailer.
That said, I think the use of a trailer would meet most of the extreme needs. The Element has enough capacity to handle the weekend sports it was designed to accommodate.
Toss a tarp and haul that stuff inside, no cleaning! Element is perfect for those types of jobs. Why else have that interior? The acoustic qualities?
A trailer doesn't run cheap, especially if you get the trailer brakes recommended for loads over 1000 lbs by just about every manufacturer. In MD you also have to register it seperately, insure it, etc. It's a big hassle.
Though I don't mind borrowing a friend's (Bob's) once in a while for ever bigger jobs! :-)
Any how, the bigger point is payload is limited, that limits the versatility of what is potentially the most versatile vehicle in its class. That's all I'm saying.
By the way, don't get me wrong, I still liked it, like I said I'd recommend it to someone like my brother.
-juice
even this civic I'm probably going to buy (if this crazy lady doesn't scare me off) doesn't excite me , and if it falls through I' wont be terribly dissapointed
im just not excited about it , but it appears to be a good fair deal at a reasonable price. I was planning on getting new and if this doesn't work out , and I have much more trouble out of trying to find a good "trustworthy used car" I'll break down and buy a new civic
"I think I'm like chris777. My head is spinning around different vehicles. The CRV, Xterra, Land Rover Disco, Mazda MPV, Suzuki XL7, Mits Outlander, Escape, VW Eurovan, etc. I like the Element mainly because I'm bored. "
yup its one of those things where it almost makes me want to learn how to design a car so I could just make what I want, but by the time I'd go through school for it, Id be ready to invent something else entirely lol
"Bottom line, not enough power for me. Now leaning to an 03 Accord V6. Sigh....:-|"
well I still haven't driven an accd yet, (I've been avoiding dealers since I was burned last month and my bs meter is busted from overload)
but I do more driving than I'd like , and from what I hear about that "lazy boy " seat in the accord I think I may just buy one if honda does the unthinkable (240 hp v6 WAGON) so I figure I'll buy a fairly recent used civic to keep from having new car depreciation (2000 lx w/ about 44k on it $8700) , plus I dont like how much accords are on insurance, that's on of the things stopping me from getting one of those now instead of later. I checked on a 94 accd from a family member and the insurance is higher than it would be on this 2000 civic , which i plan on getting and then just saving up to pay cash on a new car out right in a couple of years
if I don't get this one , honda has until summer to shave about 4000 off of an element , or offer another crv for around 16500 or less and I might buy that, its a shame too.
what's really bad is the scion bbx is looking more interesting, but I definitely don't like the horsepower listed on it.
I still would like to see something similar to the step wagon, which it looks like honda "borrowed" the elements fold up seats from, with a tailgate and ample power I would be hooked I still think a sport utility van would be awesome ,I still love the old toyota wagovans (safety issues aside) I think it would rock with a v6, and some 16 or 17 inchers and awd to boot, but I know thats dreaming
so I reckon im out on the element, unless it gets a severe discount, 2 or 3 generations with enough modifications (v6) , or a redesign (2007 or 8?)
so I'll buy something b4 summer, and hope, for lattitude, an accord wagon or maby something else if someone decides to shake the market up a bit
the dodge magnum looks interesting (hope the accord guys are listening)
that is unless I win an element in a local contest , i think I would find it acceptable for a 5 buck ticket lol
Sometimes I hated the lack of power steering and clutching the thing in stop and go traffic. I think I'm going to miss though. Can move a sofa through the hatchback.
Lets get a perspective on the payload. Its for activities not moving gardening supplies. Geez. Its to take light alloy performance bikes not patio stones. Its to take surf or snow boards not drywall. The boomers are going to ruin this car although they are the only ones who can afford it.
I'm going with the autobox Element because I'm in cruising mode and not racing mode. Life's too short.
gator: I could see people's reaction to an Element convoy. They would swear we were getting attacked by aliens.
btw, varmint, the compost is sterilized and sealed in plastic bags, no odor. Yard fertilizer, in contrast, is much more aromatic. That was one example of hauling common supplies in response to a question of how often one might haul near maximum cargo weight. Unless you live in a condo or apartment, cargo hauling is part of living in a home.
quote Honda- The removable flip-up rear seats let you configure the Element to fit most road-trip essentials, including your favorite taco sauce. And you can expect quick, simple loading of bikes, boards and more with the clamshell tailgate and side cargo doors. So grab your friends, stow your gear and get gone. Playtime just got easier. -end quote.
Intended use is people and road trip or recreation items.
Hmm I guess this means that it should be considered as a "play" car or an "extra" car. Anyone rich enough to have the Element as thier road-trip car is not likely going to be buying a honda. When I think of roadtrip vehicle I'm thinking Conversion Van!
-mike
ropedart: the extreme sports look great on brochures and commercials, but let's face it - those booomers end up going to Home Depot ten times as often.
Even if you don't haul mulch, 675 lbs pretty much limits you to 3 big guys as passengers. Just 2 if they're linemen.
Back to the trailer idea, though, Honda could make a matching trailer, sort of like what the Prowler had, remember those?
-juice
Then again, you'll be towing your toys ....
Steve, Host
I guess you could watch extreme sports on them! :-)
-juice
Steve, Host
Hey jondavid, I haul stuff all the time in my CR-V, see pic below
The show was where I first got to get in an Element, though I first saw one way back last April at the NY show.
Greg: you da man! I think I had you beat when I loaded 23 bags of wood chips (3 cubic yards per) however.
-juice
Greeting from sunny Miami.
"fig"
-juice
-juice
But if there was the time to shop Honda dealers, now is it.....
My local neighborhood dealer who turned me off twice and lost sales of an Odyssey and Pilot now is my best friend and wants me to take a vehicle home with me for an extended test drive. Then a web sales manager sent me a 2.9% loan offer along with $100 over invoice for an EX V6.
I think the BS is subsiding.
.
That's higher than mine was piled. Bags were denser and only came up to around the top of the back seat, heightwise.
They're not even in dealers yet, but it's going to have a big impact IMO.
I'd taken my wife to look at the Ody and it was 8:45 and the dealer was closing at 9, so they said we needed to make an appointment for a test drive, plus pay MSRP, plus wait 2 months for delivery. I don't ever want to make a business deal when the cards are stacked up like that against me.
I did walk in a test drive a Pilot, though. Apparently each dealer gets one that is not available for sale, so people can walk in a test drive them. Wait lists at the time.
Competition is a good thing. Demand cools and dealers discount and offer better terms.
-juice
The interior does look nice. Looks like the DVD was planned from the start.
-juice
I'm having a local dealer inspect it on Tuesday
and as long as nothing major shows up I reckon im buying it.
its weird I keep going back and fourth on it with good feelings and nervousness. (like I have every car I've seen the past couple of years lol)
on one hand it's not what I want, it's used, and compared to some used accords I've recently driven its under powered
on the other hand I guess it's a pretty good price
gas mileage should be very good, plus including insurance my payments should be under $250 so i should be able to double up payments , or save up more money during this time.
(interesting side note the insurance is cheaper on a 2000 lx civic than a 1994 accord with anti lock brakes)
so unless this lady decides to back out or someone offers her more , or something major turns up in the inspection ,I figure I'll drive this car the next 2-5 years. save up as much cash as possible and if something interesting (accord wagon, v6 crv, cheap oddy, or pilot or of all things I saw an interesting looking ford of all things [freestyle] the magnum looks intriguing as well and who knows what else like the scion twins) comes along I would actually prefer a new model get at least one year of revisions so I don't inherit all the bugs of a new model.
I definitely wouldn't mind seeing a crv with a tailgate and fold up seats like the element (hint hint)
I really do think it was a great concept I was just disappointed with the execution, I really hope Honda doesn't feel too burned to experiment more.
with the apparent "flop" status of the SI I have a feeling any hope of a civic hatch 3 or 5 door are dead in the water unless hatches become the next big thing
so I guess I'm settling on a plain jane old civic for now........
Even if you do, sell it and get the Element later, once it has a proven track record and starts being discounted.
-juice
Problems with my civic? The only thing I notice in the 3.x years of ownership is that this car is now quieter than when it was new and has better gas mileage now. Me too, am saving money with my civic and get ready for the next move. Happy civicing ;-)