Honda Element

varmint

Sounds like you don't need the AWD, but you shouldn't worry about getting an EX because of repair costs. The RT4WD unit in the Element is essentially the same that has been used in the CR-V for the past 7 or 8 years. It has been one of the most trouble free systems in a vehicle that is known for being reliable.

The only difference it will make for you is that you'll have to have the differential fluid replaced every 40-60K miles. It's like having an oil change. No biggie.

BTW, I'm a fan of galapagos green.

boiko

My bad...after living in the Honda Element specs/reviews for a year, I started researching the new 2004 Acura TL and spaced on the fact that you don't get the Moonroof with the FWD EX 8-)

So it looks like a no-brainer then, get the AWD EX... You just have to decide on the color, I myself like the GG..

-mike-

meinrad

We've had the GG for about 2 weeks now and I'm really happy with the color. Glad I got it.

zenzikora

Got my Element back Thurs night. It looks like it may have been a factory defect - the fuse was cracked, not just blown, and that doesn't normally happen just from turning on your CD player. . . Anyway, they replaced the fuse and now it's running perfectly. Anybody else had to dig out the code to their radio in the first week?
   As far as color, I was really enamored of the dark blue, but since a 2WD 5spd was so hard to find in my area I ended up with the orange, which I grow more fond of every time I see it. It's not bright enough to be obnoxious. I have gotten some compliments on it as well. As far as the moonroof, I don't see how having it would be that great, since it's over the back, not the front passengers anyway. . .

toledohonda

I've seen several people mention the 675 lb. "official" capacity rating, but was wondering if anyone could provide any feedback about actual usage and if this has been an issue/limitation with your Element. I had never really given capacity ratings a second though, and realize the Honda and others are probably conservative in the numbers but just wanted to check.

I WILL be buying either a CRV or Element and this is one of the factors as my wife hauls stuff on occasion that can be rather heavy.

Thanks

losangelesgurl

Hello, All. Thanks everyone for your replies and thoughts. I have decided to go with the 4WD EX, and now all I have to decide is color and also manual or automatic. I am liking the Galapagos Green more each day, and the orange, too. And I agree, zenzikora. It's not bright enough to be obnoxious. I just wonder if in a few years I will wonder, "WHAT was I thinking??!!!" Oh, and as far as the moon roof, the reason I want it is because I'm a backpacker and a nightowl in general. With the seats folding down to make a "bed," that moon roof is a real nice feature to have.

Not sure I can find an 03 in manual transmission any more, though, so might just wait for the 04s to come out. Ahhhhhh, too many decisions. (I'm in Los Angeles, if anyone knows where a 4WD EX manual drive GG or rust is, by the way!)

Thanks again, all!

mtngal

I don't know about their current inventory, but you can often find 4WD vehicles in Bakersfield. I don't particularly care for the Honda dealership there, but they'd be worth at least a phone call (they also let you test drive vehicles on the freeway).

I like both the green and the orange also. Because the orange is understated, I think it would wear well over the years. Those are the 2 colors I'll want when the time comes.

losangelesgurl

Hmm..Dealer just called. He has a 4WD EX manual in Shoreline Mist, aka Beige. What do you guys think? Beige seems so unexciting, kind of boring. But the dealer says the color is classy, classic, etc. Also, dirt wouldn't show as quickly as some of the other colors, but not sure I even care about that if the tradeoff is a color like beige. Hummmmm..What do you guys think?

anonymousposts

Shoreline mist was our first choice until we decided on the Sunset Orange. Shoreline mist is a nice color but we thought orange suited the Element more. Don't like the green because of the green accents inside, same goes for the silver and blue with the blue accents inside. Liked the all black interior of the shoreline mist and orange.

zenzikora

I did notice today that the sticker on the door says 675lb capacity - You couldn't even carry 4 200lb people with that. Luckily I don't, the most I carry in people would be a smidge over 500, and with my dogs it's much less, because they are medium dogs and I'm the only person.
   As far as colors, I thought Shoreline mist was really the least attractive color in the line-up. I had a choice between that and orange as far as 2wd sticks (both at the same dealer in NJ), and I took Orange, didn't even have to think about it. The green I like on the outside, but I'm not sure I could deal with a green interior, though I didn't mind the blue one I test-drove. Shoreline seems kind of like a non-color to me - I don't hate it, but I don't like it either.
   I should think that even in CA it shouldn't be THAT hard to find some 4WD 5spds around. If you're not in a big hurry, the 04's should come in next month (at least that's what they told me). Try emailing a bunch of dealers - often their inventories online are not correct, or not listed at all. . . or they may tell you what they have coming in soon, etc.

losangelesgurl

Zenzikora, that surprises me, that the car has a weight capacity of only 675. Like you said, four people could easily outweigh the 675 limit. The car was targeted to Gen Y males, who all seem to be about 7 feet tall (LOL), yet the capacity is only 675??
And I agree, the Shoreline Mist seems like a non-color. That's the perfect way to put it, in my opinion.
How do you find online inventories? I had no idea this was possible to do. Anyone care to explain (including the most basic, obvious instructions for this relatively computer-illiterate girl) how to check inventories of local dealerships online? Thanks in advance.

tidester

I think it's a hit and miss proposition. The first step is finding whether your dealer has a web site. You can use Google with either a specific dealer's name or do a generic "car dealer" search for your area.

Once you've found the site, you're not likely to find a link that says "Here's our inventory!" but rather you may have to follow the appropriate links to a specific model that you're interested in. If you keep your "requirements" as general as possible, you'll eventually get to the point where they will indicate exactly what they have available on the lot.

Note that at every step they will be asking for your name, phone number, email address and so on for obvious reasons. Usually you can safely proceed to the next step without "committing." (Avoid providing that info unless you really do want lots of email and phone calls!)

Good luck.

tidester, host

zenzikora

Online inventories aren't always accurate either, but it's a good way to get a general idea about what the dealer stocks, and how many they have on the lot. If you go to www.hondacars.com, there is a little box next to "Find Dealers" where you type in your zip-code, and it will bring up the dealers closest to you, and give you a link to their website. On the websites there is usually a small link either on the sidebar or on a tab at the top that says "New Cars", if you go there it should give you a little search engine to search a specific model in their inventory.
  Edmunds also will give you a list of Honda dealers in your area, if you go into New Cars, then Element. Most Dealers have www.dealershipnamehere.com as a website

varmint

I believe that's 675 plus the weight of the driver. Still not great, but enough to tote four full-sized adults.

bigkahunafl

I hope your are right about not including the driver.

varmint

That's the way they handle most weight limits. In fact, Honda's towing limits for the Pilot is 3,500 lbs plus 4 passengers and their gear. Note that they do not make this distinction with the CR-V and Element.

I could be wrong about the 675#. It's been a while since I've read up on the subject, but I thought it was worth mentioning. You might find better information on the Hondanews.com site or Honda of Canada.

ateixeira

But is says 675 lbs total payload right on the door jamb, I believe Bob checked that.

I kind of doubt Honda is allowed to use a different system to measure payload than every other manufacturer, given the tag on the door jamb is a requirement.

-juice

losangelesgurl

Hi, all. I'm sick of this hunt-down-an-03-EX-5 speed-4WD-GG-or-orange game. LOL. I am thinking of waiting for the 04s to come out. But the dealers are all telling me, "If you wait, I won't negotiate. You'll have to pay whatever we ask, because if you don't, someone will, and we'll sell to the higher bidder instead of negotiating with you." Is this true? As aggressive as these guys have been (calling me daily, emailing me til there are fumes coming off my computer), I find it very hard to believe that they will turn away a sale because I'll want to negotiate down to a great price. Anyone have the scoop? Thanks, all.

tidester

"If you wait, I won't negotiate."

I think that means they are ready to negotiate - now. Go for it!

tidester, host

markjenn

Salesman will say anything and everything to make a sale. They always want to create a sense of urgency and the tactic of "I won't make this good a deal tomorrow" is #1 in their sales book.

Having said this, at the end of every model year, they'll negotiate more than they will on the next model year since the new model year is always in higher demand. So you probably will get a little better deal on an '03. But that doesn't mean they won't negotiate on an '04, just not as aggressively.

Never trust ANYTHING a car salesman says during the sales process. Gather your own data and draw your own conclusions.

- Mark

zenzikora

If they don't have what you want, don't buy. I don't think there will be huge rush on 04's, as they aren't changing much (just adding an accessory or two right?).

Right now in my area there is a glut of 4WD automatics; my salesman said that when he checked for 2WD 5spds the one dealer was willing to sell a 4wd auto for $19,2. Under invoice, that is. So yeah, now is a pretty good time to buy, but if you're a serious negotiater, you should be able to get a decent deal on an 04 as well.

markjenn

FYI, I was cruising the local Honda dealer yesterday (Seattle area), looking at colors for a new Pilot I'm considering. They were very few Pilots on the lot, but a lot of Elements - I counted about 30 scattered across the lot. This is anecdotal, but as the previous poster said, it might be a good time to push for a deal if you want what they have in stock. I doubt they're getting MSRP. And it might indicate that the bloom is off the vehicle and that supplies will remain plentiful.

- Mark

varmint

Juice - Could be. I recall having the discussion a few months back, but I don't recall the end result.

Losanglesgurl - You may end up paying slightly more for the 2004 than the 2003, but you'll also get more. Buying the 2004 model means better resale vs a 2003. This never hurts even you don't plan to sell (it could get totaled). The 2004 also has a few minor upgrades you might like (keyless entry for example).

wasjr

Called Honda customer service. The 675 lbs is cargo only. Occupant weight is in addition to this amount. The 675 was calculated assuming 4 average(?) size adult occupants. Therefore, you could safely haul more than 675 lbs with fewer occupants.

I am about to buy an AWD EX Auto w/ side airbags. What dealer options should I add?

zenzikora

that's good to hear about the cargo capacity, even if I don't think I'd exceed it anyway. The tag on the door also lists GAWR, don't remember if it says GVWR, but you could figure the whole thing out that way.

dealer options? keyless entry maybe? And foglights? That's about all it needs to be perfect. It is a bit annoying that I can't lock my car without turning the key in the driver-door, but I'll live.

BTW, I just accidentally (but gratifyingly!) managed to squeal my tires on the 1-2 shift. As I was pulling out from a stop sign I noticed somebody beginning to plummet down the hill towards me (stop sign being at the bottom, before a rise), so I stepped on it (it's almost broken in), I probably shifted around 5K, and it squealed quite loudly and then gripped and took off. I will never believe anyone who reviews this car and says it lacks power! Of course the 5-spd is geared quite low, as I turn around 3000 in 5th gear at 65, but I don't care - I got like 24mpg on the first tank.

bigkahunafl

Thanks for sharing your phone call with Honda. I was a little worried about the 650 being total weight.

buffalo7

Our local dealer says the 2004's will not be out until 2004. Has anyone heard a date? Thanks!

zenzikora

I doubt you'd have to wait that long, unless that's something specific to your area. . .
I know that the dealers in my (Philly) area are not getting any more '03's, and one dealer mentioned that they would get new cars in October; they did not actually say '04s, but other dealers have confirmed they are not getting any more '03's so. . .
I would ask some other dealers, see what they say.

stever

This may the time to do it:

End Of Sept. Great Time For Car Buyers (Boston Channel.com)

Steve, Host

losangelesgurl

Hello, everyone. Dealer called today. Said he could get me (from another dealer) an orange (I prefer green, but the orange is my 2nd choice) 4WD, 5-speed, '03 Element EX for $19,484, plus tax, title, license, registration. (Not doing a trade in.) He also said he'd give me $500 worth of coupons toward future service on the car if I got the service done at their dealer. How's this for a price? I'm in Los Angeles, if it matters. Thanks.

mtngal

Just looking at Edmunds pricing, it sounds like a good deal - not much above invoice. I haven't talked money to anyone yet, so I don't know what they are REALLY selling for around here.

I still think that if that's the vehicle you want (by the way, that's a vehicle I would want!), and you have the finances to handle it, GO FOR IT!

I talked to a guy driving a FWD Element auto yesterday (orange, by the way) who was on his way from SoCal to NorCal. He had passed me on the steeper portion of the Grapevine (my Tacoma does struggle at times going uphill at freeway speeds), then stopped at the top (where I talked to him). He loves his, has gone up and down the I5 (and the Grapevine) several times since he bought it. No problems at all with going up steep freeways. I wish I could afford to dump my Taco - I'd take that 4WD, 5-speed '03 EX in a heartbeat!

ateixeira

4 average size adults would be at least another 600 pounds, that's 1275 pounds total. Dunno, I find that hard to believe.

Honda has to obey the same laws/regulations as every car manufacturer. The payload is posted on the door jamb, can someone double-check it?

Out of curiosity, check the GVWR also, if you will. Then we can subtract the curb weight to get an idea of how much weight you can haul.

A 2WD DX is lighter than a 4WD EX, but most manufacturers just publish the most conservative number.

-juice

s852

When the new low-sulfur diesel fuel becomes standard in the US in 2006, will the Element get the option of 2.4 liter diesel engine in the Euro Accord?
I suppose by then, the Element would be a 2007 model and Honda might just wait for the next generation Element in 2008 or so instead of bothering with this one.

ateixeira

I think Isuzu will offer a diesel SUV, I bet a lot of folks will be taking a close look at how sales go for that model.

-juice

varmint

The euro diesel is a 2.2L and there are no plans to ship it over to the states. I believe Honda said so in one of their press releases.

zenzikora

My (FWD EX 5spd) GVWR is 4450lbs. Gross Front Axle Rating: 2300. Rear Axle: 2205.
My E probably weighs between 3300 and 3400, so I guess cargo capacity is about 1050 including people. But it also clearly states that cargo capacity (without any qualifiers) is 675.

ateixeira

Maybe Honda is just being ultra-conservative with the payload specs?

1050+ lbs is plenty for that size vehicle.

Thanks for checking that.

-juice

chazasu

I owned my Element for less than 1 day and 68 miles here in Phoenix, AZ. Parked my car at work and came out to find a 7" crack. According to Honda Service bulletin 03-028: (http://www.derekknight.com/element/tsb/tsb03-028windshield.gif), my car falls outside the range of VIN numbers for replacement under warrantee. Hopefully they'll take care of me since I have already purchased 7 other Hondas' from the dealership. Other than this issue, I LOVE my E!

s852

Regardless of the service bulletin, is the windshield glass excluded from the normal factory warranty?
Unless they are saying they think the crack came from a rock or some other impact to the glass, I don't see how they could not cover the windshield.
They should be able to look at the glass to see if it has any marks from an impact (road hazards etc.).

dill6

I'm just about ready to get an Element - any good reason to wait for an '04 vs. an '03, other than the trade-in value down the road, that is?

And how much would you expect to get off on an '03 right now?

bigkahunafl

04's will have a passenger side arm rest and keyless entry.

ateixeira

Keyless is pretty useful, once you've had it you can't go back.

You can tell if a rock cracked the windshield. Take a pen, run it along the crack. If it falls into a "pit", it was a rock. If it's totally smooth, it was a stress crack, I'd go right to Honda.

Good to hear they took care of you, though.

-juice

chazasu

I contacted my fleet salesperson and he said absolutely no problem on replacing the windshield and had service order it for me. I also called the Honda toll-free service number and reported the issue. They also said that there would be no problem replacing it under warrantee. Still very happy with my purchase!

bigkahunafl

Glad to hear your window crack was resolved to your satisfaction.

dill6

on the '04s - I think I will wait for them to come out and pass on an '03. Dealer here said probably late Oct. or early Nov. for '04 Elements - is what the rest of the country is expecting?

bigkahunafl

My sales rep told me in Aug that the 04's would be out in Oct. I am waiting for them too.

losangelesgurl

dill6 and bigkahunafl, what swayed each of you to decide to wait til the 04? Thanks.

bigkahunafl

I bought an 01 Civic (1st year of the current generation) and had some problems that were corrected in the 2nd year (e.g. suspension, fuel gauge, etc.). I also like black on white gauges which was not on the sedan EX for 01, but was on the 02.
I'm not in a hurry and do want some of the bugs worked out (windshield cracking, etc.). I also want the extra's they are including in the 04 EX(keyless entry and passenger side armrest).

bullett1

I was going to buy the Element but when I saw the maximum payload listed on the door of 675lbs I could not do it. I asked the salesman to check to see if that figure was correct and he did. He could not believe it but he said that is a correct figure. Does anyone out there have a definitive answer on this? Has anyone actually seen in writing something saying that the Element can hold more than 675lbs safely. If you load the vehicle with more than 675lbs and you are in an accident would the insurance pay if they knew you overloaded the vehicle? Honda should post something in writing if this figure is wrong.

zenzikora

Official Honda opinions on whether or not this includes people may vary, but my door says Payload Capacity is 675. However, my Gross Vehicle weight Rating is 4450lbs. Therefore, my vehicle weighing about 3350, I can actually carry about 1100. So what I'm figuring is maybe the calculator people included 2 people at 200lbs, since you wouldn't be carrying 'payload' with the backseats in. Either that, or they are keeping low to prevent overloading the tires, or keeping rollover risks low. Anyway, I will never load more than 675 in mine, so it matters little to me.