I'm about 30 minutes north of Boston, and I've been seeing them everywhere. In my town alone, I see at least 5 on my way to work, and that's only a 10 minute ride. All different colors. I think I'm the only Orange one so far. We go to Nashua,NH a lot too, and I see a bunch of them at the malls up there. Sales must be pretty good in New England??
varmint: if the 2005 CR-V gets those upgrades you mention, perhaps the price gap with stretch again. That would be a good strategy for Honda, actually.
Per varmint's earlier note regarding regional demand. The demand for the Scion xB should be as well. My wife and I were having a little bit of a battle regarding what the next family vehicle should be. I was pushing for looking seriously at the xb for two reasons, cost and mileage. (The new vehicle will be my daily driver, and I currently have a '90 Range Rover.) I like the room of the xB, the three seat belts in the rear, the mileage is great, but most of all the price. The main draw back is no AWD.
We live in the SLC area, and AWD, or chains, is required for travelling up the canyons to the slopes in the winter, which is a weekly trip from November to late April. That combined with the history of Honda quality has lead me to decide that the Element wins, but this reasoning will not hold true for people in Louisiana.
A side note regarding regional demand. I requested a quote by internet through Edmunds this week. They only have one local dealer listed, and the price quote on a 2004 Fiji Blue Element LX AWD Auto is $19,090. I have read posts in this discussion, and the one on pricing, quoting purchase prices on AWD Auto EX's for less. Those would have to be in areas where demand is not as great, or California where the battle with the Scion is a year old.
They are light, under 2500 lbs, but they're not small. scootertrash owns an xB and an Expedition and he posted a picture of the two next to each other, the xB holds its own. You can also get side curtain air bags and stability control is standard, too.
Keep something in mind - Element did poorly in side-impact tests without the side air bags. Honda had claimed the extra weight of the Element went to beefing up that B-pillar but the crash tests say otherwise:
Ztorin - You need to get yourself to the next Honda SUV Olympics. It's in Franconia Notch on July 31. E-mail me for details. I haven't finished the new web site just yet.
Actually every vehicle has to meet the gov't minimums, so these tests aren't really pass/fail.
Someone was saying the xA was tested and its scores were close to the Element's. xB hasn't been tested but if anything it's the same platform with hard points farther away from the passengers, so it should do as well or better.
All I'm saying is don't dismiss the xB due to its size, the safety content is actually impressive for its price class.
Element and Scion xB are unique, boxy vehicles and from what I gather owners are pretty passionate about them, i.e. they have a strong preference. I'm trying to look at the safety issue objectively.
I think that the xB and the Element will generally attract different audiences. The wash-n-wear interior of the Element is a big plus for me (better for wet, muddy dogs).
The xB wouldn't work for me because it isn't AWD/4x4 and I want something that will get me through the chain control points without having to get out and put on chains (something I would prefer not to do at 4 am).
Also, the Element has more ground clearance, something that I'd find useful, both getting in and out of our driveway in winter, and getting to a couple of the trailheads I go to often in the summer.
I think the xB is a nice vehicle for not much money, but it wouldn't meet my (somewhat unusual) needs.
their fav car is unique. the scion people do, the element people do, and the PT cruiser people get all huffy and say, "well our car is in a class by itself". From my life long view of owning sedans, they are all a lot closer to each other than to regular SUVs(all the same to me), or sedans (all the same to me)
I agree that AWD is an important feature missing from the xB, but keep in mind the Element doesn't have as much ground clearance as a CR-V, so I'm not sure it has as much appeal for those snowy mountain drivers.
xB is actually much more of a conventional wagon, it just looks very unique, and draws attention to itself.
I think it draws attention only because its ugly (but then thats my personal opinion). The Element on the other hand (again my personal opinion) is very cool inside and out. The XB is just a box on wheels and it literally looks like that.
Edit: However, I did like the interior of the XB but not more than I liked the Element's interior. And I feel that I should not call it ugly because its not. It's just too boxy for me.
$500 below invoice incl dest. Man, this decision is killing me. Outback for $18,450 or Element EX for $18700. We are new home owners so Im buying a vehicle for its utility. Your thoughts?
Go with the Element !! I'm partial though. It's just so much fun, and people are just blown away when they see it. Even people that thought they hated it, will soon fall in love with it. That's what I've noticed. A lot of my g/f's uncle's didn't care for it until they finally saw mine on Easter. Now they won't stop talking about it !!! I got my first WAVE from another Element owner today, made me smile. This was a new one for me. Now I'm up to I think 5 a day on my way to/from work.
I agree with juice - go with the one you (and only you) like the best. They are both nice vehicles and you'll only regret the purchase if you don't buy the one you prefer.
I'm partial to the Orange. I've seen them all, but IMO the orange looks the "coolest" against the metallic gray panels and I think it fits better with the overall "look" of the Element. Plus it changes hues in different lights. The gray, to me, looks like primer. The green and blue are cool too, but I didn't like the color-coded inside, looked cheesy to me. Black doesn't stand out as much.
The green looks cool. Sort of para-military. Orange if you want kids to point and scream, i.e. get the most attention.
footie: I read that differently. The young crowd is taking to the Scion, they're just more picky, it says as much.
Any new model has teething issues, remember the TSB for cracking windshields on the Element, for instance. It's not like a reputable manufacturer won't sort those issues out.
Get the element, but don't put on the factory roof rack. Install a yakima or thule. Having just completed a remodel I can tell you from experience that the element will provide you with more versatility, and you wont be worrying about getting mud and such on the load bay carpet. The load bay volume will allow you to rent the tiller, floor sander, etc. and transport it home easily.
Regarding longevity of the vehicle, I am unsure of what is in store for the element. My wife has a '94 Impreza wagon, and the car has mechanically been a rock.(touch wood)But Honda has a good rep.
i've been around and around with all the three roof rack options and i'm getting the OEM rack for $198 w/free shipping at hondaacuraworld.com. the thule and yakima are nice but cost more and aesthetically don't look as good. i realize the load capcity is half or less but i may never even use it. just want the look!
seems like different uses for the two vehicles down there in SC.
Highlanders selling a lot of their 4wd faster than they can keep them in stock. The Element is selling their 2wd down there - drawing a diff crowd to it. Daily drivers?
If you are near the coast there may be more AWD's there for that reason. More people might be inclined to take their Element on the sand while more Highlanders are used only for street purposes.
Can someone explain the RealTime AWD system to me/us/the forum?? I know it engages when it senses the front tires slipping, but is there an indication light or anything to know when it's engaged?? Also, how long does it stay in AWD once it kicks in?? I see the comments above about driving in the sand, etc, but I honestly can't find a good explanation of it... NOT from a technical standpoint, but just exactly what happens, and how you know, etc... Isn't this system basically only AWD for that initial "slip" from a stop on wet/slippery/sandy ground?? EDIT: I just skimmed the whole owner's manual and there's nothing in there at all that I could find on it other than what I've mentioned about engaging when it senses slippage in the front.
Thanks guys. Seems strange that it's virtually omitted from the owner's manual, yet such a major feature. There's more info on how to use your damn seatbelts, and how to install a child seat than there is on one of the biggest selling points in the truck !!!
The system operates seemlessly, so there's little for them to describe. It's not like other systems where they have to tell the owner how to engage it, or what the warning lights mean. It doesn't need any of that.
unless i did off road or lived in snow or always wet country. More weight, more seals to leak, more parts to break, more Cv joints to have boots break on, like on my 2 Civics at around 90k miles. dealers love AWd - adds what / $1500 to car cost? Mo profit 4 them
Which is why I like this Real-Time system over a full-time system. It's not on all the time, and even in my snowy New England habitat, I'd bet that I'll probably only ever need the system to engage into AWD less than 1% of the time that I own/drive the vehicle over the next 5 or 6 years. It's only there when you need it. If my Corolla could make it around Snow-town with those small tires and front wheel drive for the last 7 years with no problems, I bet I'll actually never need the system, but I like the fact that it's there if I ever get stuck. And, it only adds 100 lbs, and since I only drive with one other person (or less), I'm not worried about the weight.
The CV joints and boots can last a lot longer in rear wheel applications. This is because they don't go through the severe turning angles that the front outboard ones do.
Hi, I am new here, but have been lurking around for a long time, trying to do my studying and research. Finally bought my Element today. 2004 EX 4WD with side air and EX Sports Package for $21,700. Got it in the best dealer in Nashville, TN - CREST Honda. I love it. Havent driven it much juts the drive from the dealership to my house and it was awesome! Will test it this weekend on our drive home to Illinois, I have no doubt it will do good. I thank everyone in thsi forum for their helpful insights on the element especially the user witht he Brazil logo . It helped me a lot in my research and in my getting a good deal from the dealer. I hope I will enjoy this car the same everyone here is!!!!!
I also just bought an E. Honda of Lisle is where I purchased it. Could have gotten $500 below invoice incl destination at Valley Honda in Aurora and Schaumburg Honda in Schaumburg. Neither had a 5 speed EX 4WD E with side air in stock. Lisle gave me the most for my trade.
Can anyone give me some advice for an outside cleaner? Especially on the gray plastic. They will eventually turn into a whitish color if not treated. I would appreciate any suggestions.
i got that response from a friend of mine who owns a body shop. he was showing me a jeep cherokee today where this occurred. Alot of the suv's hubs are made of the same material.
I would say so. During some of the random hot days a few weeks back in the Boston area, the Element was extrememly HOT inside after baking in the sun for several hours. Within maybe 2 minutes, I was freezing. The fan has something like 12 (literally) speeds, from very low, through very, very high. The MAX A/C Setting automatically selects A/C to the front vents, automatically switches on "recirculate" for maximum cooling power. All you have to do is crank the fan to the 12th position and enjoy a snow cone !!!!
Comments
-juice
We live in the SLC area, and AWD, or chains, is required for travelling up the canyons to the slopes in the winter, which is a weekly trip from November to late April. That combined with the history of Honda quality has lead me to decide that the Element wins, but this reasoning will not hold true for people in Louisiana.
A side note regarding regional demand. I requested a quote by internet through Edmunds this week. They only have one local dealer listed, and the price quote on a 2004 Fiji Blue Element LX AWD Auto is $19,090. I have read posts in this discussion, and the one on pricing, quoting purchase prices on AWD Auto EX's for less. Those would have to be in areas where demand is not as great, or California where the battle with the Scion is a year old.
Gee why am I not surprised.
The Xb is probably too light in the Expedition laden highways . Maybe $2.25 gas will kill off some of the SUVs.
Keep something in mind - Element did poorly in side-impact tests without the side air bags. Honda had claimed the extra weight of the Element went to beefing up that B-pillar but the crash tests say otherwise:
http://www.iihs.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/side/s0308.htm
Structurally, the score was only Average, and the overall score was Poor.
So don't dismiss the xB because it seems smaller, it might actually be safer, depending upon how you measure.
-juice
For info on the last Olympics, check this link.
http://home.comcast.net/~evarmint/
Juice - I wouldn't use a single crash test to bolster that argument. The Element scored 5 and 4 stars in the NHTSA crash tests.
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/NCAP/Cars/2807.html
The Scion hasn't passed any government tests, yet.
Actually every vehicle has to meet the gov't minimums, so these tests aren't really pass/fail.
Someone was saying the xA was tested and its scores were close to the Element's. xB hasn't been tested but if anything it's the same platform with hard points farther away from the passengers, so it should do as well or better.
All I'm saying is don't dismiss the xB due to its size, the safety content is actually impressive for its price class.
Element and Scion xB are unique, boxy vehicles and from what I gather owners are pretty passionate about them, i.e. they have a strong preference. I'm trying to look at the safety issue objectively.
-juice
The xB wouldn't work for me because it isn't AWD/4x4 and I want something that will get me through the chain control points without having to get out and put on chains (something I would prefer not to do at 4 am).
Also, the Element has more ground clearance, something that I'd find useful, both getting in and out of our driveway in winter, and getting to a couple of the trailheads I go to often in the summer.
I think the xB is a nice vehicle for not much money, but it wouldn't meet my (somewhat unusual) needs.
From my life long view of owning sedans, they are all a lot closer to each other than to regular SUVs(all the same to me), or sedans (all the same to me)
xB is actually much more of a conventional wagon, it just looks very unique, and draws attention to itself.
-juice
Edit: However, I did like the interior of the XB but not more than I liked the Element's interior. And I feel that I should not call it ugly because its not. It's just too boxy for me.
-juice
Think back to each test drive. Which one brought you the biggest smile?
I'm an enthusiast first and foremost. You should be happy with your car, period. Everything else, everything, is secondary.
You can afford them or you wouldn't even be considering them.
So, which one will it be?
-juice
http://wardsauto.com/ar/auto_scion_xb_not/index.htm
Also they point out that the Xb was hammered in the recent JDP IQS, pulling down all of Toyota.
The 'young crowd' isn't taking to this odd box per Wards.
footie: I read that differently. The young crowd is taking to the Scion, they're just more picky, it says as much.
Any new model has teething issues, remember the TSB for cracking windshields on the Element, for instance. It's not like a reputable manufacturer won't sort those issues out.
-juice
Regarding longevity of the vehicle, I am unsure of what is in store for the element. My wife has a '94 Impreza wagon, and the car has mechanically been a rock.(touch wood)But Honda has a good rep.
yet if you go to look at highlanders at two Toy dealers they are almost ALL 2 wd?
what gives?
Highlanders selling a lot of their 4wd faster than they can keep them in stock. The Element is selling their 2wd down there - drawing a diff crowd to it. Daily drivers?
must be other reasons for the difference
awd only operates when there is a sped difference btw front and rar wheels
The first few paragraphs should give you the general idea. The rest explains the details.
More weight, more seals to leak, more parts to break, more Cv joints to have boots break on, like on my 2 Civics at around 90k miles.
dealers love AWd - adds what / $1500 to car cost? Mo profit 4 them