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Questions About Auto Insurance and Accidents



  • I'm moving to Los Angeles later this summer and will be looking for car insurance. I have a perfect driving record and insurance history here in the UK. Can anyone suggest how I get the best possible insurance rate for the USA ? Are there any companies that specialise for people like me etc etc ?
  • dtownfbdtownfb Posts: 2,918
    I doubt your sister has any case against Ford. She obviously hit the sensor that triggered the air bags (which means she was going more then 5 mph). so the air bags did what they were suppose to do.
  • tblazer503tblazer503 Posts: 620
    gotta agree with dtown...

    those sensors are nothing more than inertia/impact sensors.. when they sense an impact/quick deceleration, they go off... some people don't have the airbags go off at 35mph, some go off at 5mph... perhaps she was going 5mph, but at an angle, and there is a good chance that the angle speed was great enough to set the sensor off....
  • gavinlgavinl Posts: 1
    as my car was sideswiped but drivable with a plastic sheet for a door window that was smashed. The rear door is deformed but latches tight.

    I'm claiming against the other party's insurance as the police report clearly put him at fault.

    I rented a car for a week but had to shell out the payment for damage wavier and tax as the insurance co. claims that they cover only the rental fees. I'm definitely going to contest this payment out of my pocket, had their customer not hit me I wouldn't have to face these charges for driving someone elses car.

    Now here's the best part, I rang the adjuster and he told me I could claim a $23 per day compensation for loss of use instead of taking a rental car, can I make him give me that information in writing? Also, in lieu of my rejection of the rental car, I'm driving my accident vehicle daily, will that work against my claim?

  • tsrangatsranga Posts: 2
    My insurance rates ($400/6 months with Farmers in SF Bay area, CA) jumped to $1300 after 2 accidents last year (my first ever accidents in my driving history).

    The 1st accident was when I backed into my friend's 13-yr old car when I was pulling out of my garage. I had no idea there would be a car in my driveway at 8am.. Her car had to be written off ($2000) and I had my bumper fixed ($600 out of pocket with $500 deductible).

    The second was when I glanced the car on my lane while I was switching lanes. The car in front had braked hard and I had not time to react. This resulted in about $4500 in damages to my car and about $5000 to the other.

    How do insurance companies decide the amount of increase? Can I do better (some online sites refuse to quote and one broker quoted about the same) or am I doomed for the next 2 years?

    Also, should I consider dropping comprehensive/collision and increased the deductible for a 1998 subaru legacy outback?
  • blh7068blh7068 Posts: 375
    You will pay a higher premium for probably three years before you get the "good driver" or whatever it is discount again.

    The fact you made two claims imo is what did you in. Why would you make a claim for $1100 with a 500 deductable? $1100 is minor when it comes to auto body repair and refinishing.

    That claim should have been saved for instances where a higher $$ amount is required to repair the vehicle(like the second claim of 4500).

    Keep in mind that there plenty of instances where its not the amount of the claim but the # of claims made within a specified time period.

    As far as doing better...Farmers could have dropped you if you were deemed too high a liability. The only thing you can do is shop for better rates and see, but since you have recently made two claims(both accidents your fault?) it will be difficult.

    As for your Subaru, you just have to do the math. You have to determine if the increased premium is worth having should that vehicle, if in an accident require costly repairs or becomes totaled. Right now its a 6 year old vehicle. The older it gets the less sense it makes to keep collision/comprehensive.

    A higher deductable will lower your premiums, and if you dont make a claim that will more than pay for itself over time.
  • Hi tsranga. I am very sorry to hear about your accidents and the fact that your insurance increased so much. Sure $800 per year is a whole lot better than paying $2,600 per year for insurance, but I am not surprised that your rates didn't go up even more. Tons of people pay that much for insurance, or even more, in states that are notorious for high auto insurance rates, like New Jersey. You may want to take a look at the following article for tips on how you may be able to lower your insurance rates: How to Save Money on Auto Insurance.

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  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 27,764
    just wanted to follow up on my post a little while back (255).

    so it turns out I really didn't need a police report after all. The woman's insurance company paid for the whole thing including my rental for the past 2 weeks. I'm very glad to have my car back and it seems they did a good job. I'll need to scrutinize it more this weekend, but so far so good.

    Maybe I lucked out. In any case, I will make sure to call the cops to any future accidents just to be safe.

    '03 F250 7.3, '07 ML63, '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '14 Town&Country Limited; '18 BMW X2. 52-car history and counting!

  • janzjanz Posts: 129
    from the police, especially if you are not at fault.
  • bobbybobby Posts: 6
    My car is going to be totaled, I am doing research for the market resale value of car. Should the insurance company also pay the government fee (tax, registration, smog testing) on top of cost of buying the similiar car?
  • tsrangatsranga Posts: 2
    Thanks for the advice.. In hindsight, I should not have made the first claim, but I assumed that since the other party was making a claim, my insurance would go up anyway.

    I just received a quote for $1200/6months for both my cars (the other an A4 1.8T Quattro) from Progressive. Any opinions on this company?
  • manamalmanamal Posts: 434
    The insurance company should give you what it costs to get into a similar car to yours. That means, if you were driving an '02 Accord EX with 26K miles, they would give you the amount required to purchase an '02 Accord EX with 26K miles (and comperable shape). Shat sould include any required fees. If you think they are lowballing you, ask them to find the equivelant car.
  • I posted before, but am still a little confused. I live in Boston, will be buying my first car soon, and currently don't have car insurance. How does this work? It seems I need a registration number to get ins. quotes - is this right? Can I drive off a lot without proof of insurance? Plus, any suggestions for good insurance companies in Massachusetts? Thanks for any help!
  • Hi lmannering. Welcome to the wonderful world of car ownership. has a number of articles on how to shop for auto insurance. Here is a link to the most comprehensive of them: 10 Steps to Buying Auto Insurance. It contains a lot of information that you will find helpful, however it is written for consumers who already have insurance. Your situation is a little different because this is the first time that you are applying for insurance on your own. Have you ever been insured to drive under a parent's or guardian's insurance policy in the past? If so, you may want to place a call to that insurance company to see what they can do for you. That is how I first got my own insurance policy many moons ago. You also may want to check out the first time buyers sections of some of the insurance companies' Web sites for more information on this subject. Here is a link to one of them for you: State Farm - First time buyer of auto insurance.

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  • terpterp Posts: 1
    I got a huge dent on my brand-new CRV and it ends up that my collision insurance will pay for the fix. See the pitures at

    I took it to some body shops. I was told that it could be either repaired or replaced. Of course they all claim that it will be as new as before afterwards. For repair, it will cost ~$1200; for replace, it will cost $3000~$3500. My collision insurance dedutible is $500.

    Two questions here, is replace better than repair? Certainly my insurance premium will increase. Will the increased amount be bigger if the insurance company pays for the replace compared to the situation in which they pays for the repair (simply because the insurance company pays more)?
  • jratcliffejratcliffe Posts: 233
    Welcome to the wonderful (NOT!) world of MA car insurance. First off, things are weird here. The state is hyper-regulated when it comes to car insurance, so most of the national companies won't write policies here. That also means that most of the websites that offer insurance quotes won't work if you live in MA. In addition, the regulated nature of the business means that prices from all carriers are essentially identical, except for small (~5%) discounts for AAA, and a few specific employers.

    The key metric here (in addition to the car) will be your SDIP (Safe Driver Insurance Plan) "step." For every year in the last six that you've been licensed, and had no accidents or tickets, you get negative one point. A ticket is 1-3 points, and a small accident is 3 points. 15 is the base step, and each step above 15 costs you about 5% extra, while each step below 15 gives you about a 5% discount. Hence, a perfect record (a 9, or 15-6) gives you about 30% off most of your insurance.

    So, bottom line, there's relatively little benefit to shopping around for insurance in MA, but you will need it before you drive your car off the lot. Pick an agent, tell them what you're interested in (in terms of a car), tell them your SDIP step (or the agent can get it from the state), and they'll give you a quote. Have fun!
  • Thanks for your replies. Massachusetts can be a different world in terms of insurance, and your advice has definitely been helpful. (With a perfect driving record I've gotten quotes starting at 1,300 and 1,600 so far - we'll see!)
  • prophet2prophet2 Posts: 372
    We have among the highest gas prices in the nation at an average of $2.20/gallon for premium ($2.80 in our remote "outer" islands). I get premium at Costco for $1.999.

    $1300-1600 on a clean record? WOW! Looks like I fare a lot better in car insurance here than the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. I pay $1616 per year full coverage for TWO vehicles. There was one chargeable claim in August 2001 when my daughter totaled my car and that of another driver. Only a 10% surcharge for that.
  • I had my 2001 century crashed on Friday night. My century crashed into a left-turning Camero while I was

    passing through a green night, the Altima on my right lane also hit the Camero, too. The driver in the

    Camero was trying to tell the police officer he had a green arrow when he was maing the left turn.

    Fortunately, we had a witness to testify that he only see a green light instead of green arrow because he

    was the one right behind the Camero when the Camero started to turn. Then the driver from the Camero tried

    to start blaming us for speeding, which we didn't. What a jerk! Anyway, his effort seemed to be effetive

    because the officer didn't give him a ticker finally.

    Both of us filed a claim with the Camero's insurance company, we don't what he is telling his insurance

    company yet, however, I do believe he won't admit fault easily. It was a tough crash,I believed my century

    must get totalled, although I may only feel a little shock when the accident happened, the next day I

    started to feel pain on the neck and my right arm,I feel some numbness on my legs, too, and it get worse

    these days, I feel I need to see a doctor tomorrow about that.

    While this is the first I get hurt in an accident, so I am not sure what's the right step should I take to

    deal with this accident. When I visit the doctor, should I show him my own health insurnace or should I let

    him bill the other driver's insurance company directly? Some friends said I should hire a lawer to ask for

    compensation, what do you guys think?
  • I am very sorry to hear about your accident, questioner. Car accidents are never pleasant, especially when injuries are involved. You definitely need to go see a doctor ASAP. Fortunately, I have never been in an accident where anyone was injured, knock on wood, so I am not all that familiar with how your doctor visit should work. I highly doubt that your doctor will just bill the individual who you were in an accident with or their insurance company directly. You may have to go on your own insurance policy and have them or your auto policy go after the other driver for reimbursement. You definitely should check out the following article that is available here at What to Do After a Car Accident. It contains a lot of information that you may find useful.

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  • zodiac2004zodiac2004 Posts: 471
    Guys, I need your help. I just got a call from my insurance adjusted saying my car is totaled. I rear-ended a Mazda RX 8, at 12 kph or so. Damage to my car (92 Lexus ES 300) is the hood bent upwards, right side headlight cover smashed, inner assembly pushed inside a little, radiator bent inwards a little etc.
    I was shocked to hear about the totaling, since the car started and was drivable after the accident (it was kinda hard to see over the hood, though).
    So, what are my options. Do I have to take what they give me, or do I have any say in the fate of the car. Also, this happened near Toronto, Ontario. My car was originally a California car registered there from late 91 to 2002, when I moved to Toronto and registered it here. So its condition is much better than a car of similar age car living in Toronto all its life due to lack of winter weather in California. The car had 124000 miles, if that's relevant.
    Any info is greatly appreciated. Thanks.
  • rroyce10rroyce10 Posts: 9,359
    ...... Sorry to hear about the accident.. cars are a dime a dozen, but people only come and go once - is everyone ok.?

                 If there going to total the vehicle how much will the insurance company be offering .? (American money)

  • zodiac2004zodiac2004 Posts: 471
    Thanks for your response. Gives some perspective on the whole situation. Nobody was hurt at all, not even remotely. It was a fender-bender type of deal, except my car went under his fender and the impact fell on the hood. His car's bumper was slightly scratched, that's it. The insurance company hasn't given me a quote yet. I just wanted to be aware of my options when they do come up with the offer.

    Also, is there any way I can buy my car back from the ins company with a clean title, after all is said and done. I know I can buy it salvaged, and I may still do that, depending on what I need to do to register it subsequently, but with a clean title it's obviously much easier.
  • zodiac2004zodiac2004 Posts: 471
    I just heard from the body shop that the damage exceeds $6000, so I guess I am not buying the car back and fixing it after all.
    When I talk to my ins adjuster, do the recent maintenance/repair done on the car come into the picture at all in determining the value of the car. For instance I replaced my tires and the ignition system last year for about $1000.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 27,764
    they wouldn't care if you just had it painted, frankly. The car is worth what its worth no matter what was put into it. Being 12 years old and well over 100K, I'm not surprised they totalled it. I am surprised, however, they determined that before getting the estimate (unless they had it before you did). Let us know what the insurance company is offering you, though. I'm curious.

    Also, I bet someone would still give you money for that car totalled. That straight-six 3.0 liter Toyota engine (that's what it has, right?) can take alot of abuse and is very popular with the tuner crowd. So if the insurance company pays out and you still get to keep the car, sell the drivetrain for some extra bucks.

    '03 F250 7.3, '07 ML63, '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '14 Town&Country Limited; '18 BMW X2. 52-car history and counting!

  • Sorry to hear about your accident, zodiac2004. At least everyone is OK. There is an interesting article on this subject here at that you should check out: How Auto Insurance Companies Total Your Vehicle After You Total Your Vehicle.

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  • leomortleomort Posts: 451
    dropping full coverage on your car, ie comprehensive and collision, and just keep liability? I was thinking when a car hits 7 to 8 years old. Any thoughts?

  • janzjanz Posts: 129
    I think it has more to do with this and your personal cash flow and comfort level than just the age of the car.

    When I was young, I carried full coverage on my 10+ year old car because the additional premium was cheap and I needed whatever cash I would be able to get for a replacement vehicle in the event of a total loss.
  • leomortleomort Posts: 451
    I was also told by my insurance agent that if it's your only car to keep full insurance. Not sure I totatlly agree with that.

    My car was 10 years old w/ 220k+ miles. Cost around $700/yr to fully insure. Car's retail value according t Edmunds was around $1200. But I couldn't get a car dealership to take it for trade-in, but got one to offer $200. So I doubt I could get much out of my insurance company if I did total it. So long winded way of saying I agree with Janz.
  • jasmith52jasmith52 Posts: 463
    There's something else to consider.

    I used to have a six year old Firebird that my wife drove. We dropped the collision coverage cause the car was only worth say 5 grand or so.

    She was involved in low speed accident with an older (very Crusty) driver who was cited at the scene by the police for making an unsafe U-turn.

    Well, it was obvious who was at fault here - The other driver. But the other driver refused to accept responsibility for the accident. My insurance company said - You are on your own to collect cause you didn't have collision insurance.

    The other drivers insurance company (acting in total bad faith) refused to pay telling us that "you'll never collect - we can get out of this"

    So after untold aggravation and letters etc. we hired a lawyer (at our expense) to get back our money for our damaged car. It wasn't until a lawsuit was actually filed by a lawyer that the other insurance company changed their toon. We finally got much of the money back (but not all) after lots of agravation.

    The moral here is that when you drop collision insurance you are on your own to collect from any Bozo that hits your car. Think about that before you drop your collision insurance.
  • prophet2prophet2 Posts: 372
    The drawback of hiring an attorney is that they don't have to accept your case if they believe it financially unprofitable to them. If the value is too small, they won't accept it on a contingency basis, but will bill you hourly, if they take it at all.

    A car worth about $5K is still valuable enough to keep fully insured.
  • bolivarbolivar Posts: 2,316
    What did collision insurance have to do with the accident?

    I think you got a bad deal from your insurance company also. The question was not about your collision insurance, which should come into the case only if it was your fault, but your liability insurance, which you were carrying.

    If you were at fault, your insurance would be paying the other driver. Your insurance company should have defended you to make the other driver and/or insurance pay for your damage.

    You should have threatened your insurance company that you would accept blame for the accident, then they would have to pay him.

    This looks like a case that should have gone to your state insurance commissioner department, aganist both companies.
  • prophet2prophet2 Posts: 372
    If you have collision coverage, you can have the repair done under your policy and have your company subrogate the claim against the other driver and his company. You pay your deductible upfront and get re-imbursed when the subrogation is completed.

    Threatening to admit fault for the accident is senseless and illogical. The other guys would love to hear that. You'd only be screwing yourself.

    If you have no collision coverage, you have no basis to complain about your carrier.
  • janzjanz Posts: 129
    I've recently learned on this subject, if you go to rent a car and only have liability policies on your vehicles, you will need to take the insurance on the rental. If you do not have full coverage on at least one of your vehicles, your ins carrier will not provide coverage in the event of a fender bender or worse.
  • tornado25tornado25 Posts: 279
    " think you got a bad deal from your insurance company also. The question was not about your collision insurance, which should come into the case only if it was your fault, but your liability insurance, which you were carrying."

    Bolivar, prophet is right. No offense, but a lot of my job involves helping to educate people about misconceptions or misunderstandings like this. For one thing, the liability coverage only serves to protect YOU from paying damages to the other driver. So even if you threatened to accept fault, that would still not repair you vehicle, since the coverage needed was not in force. It might make you feel good or something, but it would come back to bite you in the form of a chargeable accident with increased rates.

    The reason jasmith's insurance company did nothing is because they couldn't legally do anything about it. Again, as prophet pointed out, had he carried collision, his insurance company would have paid and subrogated (or filed a claim against) the other person and his insurance company. They would then have the legal ability to prove the other driver was at fault and they were entitled to recovery. Since the insurance company made no such payment (nor did jasmith expect them to, I imagine), they could not "force" the other person or his insurance company to pay.

    Personally, I'd rather pay my deductible and let my insurance company haul out the big guns (and mine has the biggest) if needed, especially since they can force recovery of the entirety of the damages, my deductible included.

    My opinion is drop collision only if you would junk the vehicle and just buy another anyway with minimal financial consequence; this is, is the car so old or low in value that even with collision, you'd really be no futher ahead? For some people, that might be once the value is $5000, for others it might be $1000.
  • prophet2prophet2 Posts: 372
    CDW is a financial rip-off. The rental agencies either self-insure or have a large deductible on collision (e.g. $3000). What do they charge for this, $10/day? That's $3650/yr. if the car's out everyday.

    If your policy's collision coverage is $500 deductible, you're still responsible for that.

    Being that you almost always need a major credit card to rent cars, check you VISA or Mastercard for automatic CDW coverage. You generally get that with your Gold/Platinum/Titanium level card.
  • prophet2prophet2 Posts: 372
    How right you are! Let the insurance companies fight it out. The claimant's concern should be getting a competent and satisfactory repair of his car's damage. Like you, I'll go through my own coverage and let my carrier subrogate - they have a stake in it.

    My car was bumped in a minor acccident in a shopping center. The people are very reasonable and may choose to pay out-of-pocket, but I told them that the cost may be more expensive than it appears. Aside from "hidden" damages under the bumper cover which may be uncovered after work has started, pearl paint requires extra prep and re-finish work. Estimates from body shops are $1000+, with the caveat about "hidden" damage. One shop indicated it could run $1400-2000. With that possibility, I'll put up the $500 deductible and let my insurer subrogate. Then, I won't have to waste my time arguing with the other adjuster.
  • tornado25tornado25 Posts: 279
    By filing a collision claim in a not-at-fault accident (which most carriers, mine included, do not surcharge) what you're doing is limiting your exposure to the deductible. Your company is first and foremost interested in keeping you happy so any "fight" with them should be minor. Pay the deductible and move on. If you're lucky, you'll get a check in the mail in a few months. It's always the way I've seen and although I always advise our clients of both options, I try to let them know filing a claim with us is best for their sanity, if they can afford the deductible.

    Which does lead to a problem. People carry a deductible they might not be able to afford to make the premium affordable. Puts them in a sticky situation in a scenario like this.
  • janzjanz Posts: 129
    I agree completely about CDW, but you missed my point. If you do not carry a full coverage policy, there is no provision for a collision deductible to apply because there will be no coverage, nada.

    Your credit card comment is good information. However, not all major cards are Platimum, Gold, or Titanium. If you don't already know, it would be a good idea to verify this regardless.

    I talked to my agent the other day and the only time they suggest CDW is if you are renting in very bad weather. That way in the event of a crash or worse, you can walk away.
  • complex1complex1 Posts: 13
    Please, could you help me with the following question:

    Do I need to make some kind of written permission to let my friend to drive my car? What about insurance? How does it work in this case? (I have only liability insurance).

    To sum up, which documents should he have with him while driving my car?

    Thank you for any comments!
  • prophet2prophet2 Posts: 372
    I was merely adding to your information for those who might think they're "safe" because they have collision coverage on their personal auto policies. Some have $1000-2000 deductibles on collision to save on premiums when they might have trouble taking the deductible hit.

    It's fairly easy these days for most people to qualify for at least a gold card. Credit card companies often offer "extended warranties" on comsumer goods (e.g. small electronics like TVs) purchased on their cards - 90-day manufacturer's warranty to one year. Covering CDW on auto rentals is likewise another benefit.

    Coverage is extended to any "insured by definition," which include the "named insured, household family members, and any person driving with the consent of the owner within the scope of such permission." Auto thieves are specifically excluded. This requires that all drivers are properly licensed. The key is the term "within the scope of such permission." Insurers can deny liability coverage if the driver who was supposed to be going to the mall caused an accident 100 miles away in the next county. There isn't any written permission form required to be kept in the car, but maybe there should be.

    Using your own coverage will save time. Your company will then send a subrogation letter to the other party requesting payment from them directly, or forwarding to their carrier. They will then have a choice of going through their insurance policy or paying out-of-pocket.

    I believe in simplifying things by taking the path of least resistance whenever practical. Why cause yourself unnecessary aggravation by fighting the other insurer?
  • ketanketan Posts: 3
    Hi! All,

    SO last month - I had a small accident. After analyzing details, snaps etc.. it was decided that it was the opposite parties fault. My Insurance company paid me 3000 $ - as the opposite party did not have insuracne coverage. As the dent is on my door and no mechanical problem - I am now thinking whether to sell this car and buy a new one.

    But just today I received a letter from the insurance company - asking to send a memo whcih says car repaired and saying I PAID the mechanic.. if not sent them in 30 days - my premium would be increased ..

    Is this legal ? Why would they want to force me in repairing the car ? and before a date they want me to ?. Can;t I just sell this car and keep the amount ?.

    Any suggestions ??

  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 27,764
    hmmm.. yeah, i don't get that. it is your choice if you want to repair it or sell it. the car has $3k in damages. whether you decide to use that check and fix it now or keep the money and take the hit on depreciation later or even fix it much later is all your decision. i don't get it. would definitely like to hear from an industry expert on this one.

    '03 F250 7.3, '07 ML63, '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '14 Town&Country Limited; '18 BMW X2. 52-car history and counting!

  • grandtotalgrandtotal Posts: 1,207
    The only thing that I can think is that the insurance company want to know what it is that they are insuring. Say, for example, that the car is involved in another accident that causes it to be a total loss the insurance company needs to know if they were insuring a car that was perfect or a car with $3000 worth of unrepaired damage.
  • ketanketan Posts: 3
    Here is the quote from the letter I received..

    "We require proof that damages have been adequately reparied in order to continue your policy without a coverage change. A copy of the repair order (market "PAID") will be suffeciant. Please return this letter along with your proof of repair. If we do not receive the required proof prior to our XX/XX/04 renewal, we will raise the comprehensive and collision deductibles on the car to $1,000."

    So does that mean - I can debate with the isurance company telling them that I shall repair it when I want to or might even sell the car ?

    Thanks all for the responces..
  • borathborath Posts: 10
    Is it true or is it just a myth that your insurance would be higher if you drive a red car?
  • akanglakangl Posts: 3,662
    As far as I can tell its a myth, both of our cars are red and insurance doesn't seem to be any different than if they were white or black.
  • borathborath Posts: 10
    Is it true or is it just a myth that your insurance would be higher if you drive a red car?
  • akanglakangl Posts: 3,662
    I answered your question. Its a myth, both our cars are red and our insurance is the same regardless of color.
  • janzjanz Posts: 129
    I too would be interested to hear from an industry professional. However, I do not think this request is unreasonable. They paid you 3 grand. It also has to do with begin up front with the Ins co. There is a lot of fraud going on. NOT saying this directly has anything do with you, only that we ALL pay for it in the long run.

    A while back, I hit a tree in snowy, icy weather, no citation. My ins co paid approx. $2000 for repairs AND increased my rates for 3 years for the claim. Qbrozen may be on track.

    PS. The car was a red Grand AM 4door. I don't think the ins company gives a darn the color.I've never had them ask that question, however, it is easy enough for them to get. A more interesting question might be what is the police perception of red cars, do they ticket them more frequently? My red car was a 4 cyl slug, but it DID feel sporty. Perhaps the drivers of red cars behavior puts them at risk.
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