Transmission fluid change-which method is better?

hobieslug · May 2002

titan that guy who told you that you didn't finish the job is right
a trans change on hondas only replace approx. 25% of the oil and when it remixes it throughs that % off. 2002 odessey tells you to change the oil 4 times with a short drive in between each change at 30,000 I think all hondas could probably fall under the same maint. scheduale
my used honda had a bad color to it so i changed trans oil every eng oil change till it looked healthy again now every 2nd or 3rd oil change i change the trans oil

gsleve · May 2002

it has a drain bolt for the transmission like the oil pan , no need to drop pan and change a filter.

tntitan · May 2002

Should I drain my Accord, refill drive a few miles, drain, refill, drive, drain and refill until all is changed out? Or can I drain, refill, start the engine and repeat a couple of times? Or is it better to just drain the 3 qts each motor oil change until the transmission fluid looks ok? Are all of these ways acceptable or does someone know more than someone else? This sounds like something I can easily do myself but I want to do it the right way. Help!

bburton1 · May 2002

The owners manual says change ATF at 90K-much too long IMHO. I change at 30K now after getting a tranny code on the CEL at 70K. ATF was burnt and I only do highway driving.

One of these days will try to change all the atf by disconnecting the hot side of the ATF cooler and connecting it to a large clear plastic bottle and while running the engine, attempt to put new atf into it at about the same rate as it flows into the jug connected to the atf cooler inlet. Have had a couple of different people suggest this approach.

For those people using the machines to change atf-ever wonder how much of their cleaning solvent remains in your tranny-something to think about-betcha it don't meet any atf standard anywhere.

swschrad · May 2002

why not put a hose nipple on a plastic bucket, put it on top of a ladder, run clear hose to the LP side (aka pump suction) of the tranny, and use the pump itself to do the fluid changing? when the hose suddenly isn't red at the top any more, shut the key off in gear so you don't airlock the pump, and connect everything back up.

you're going to spill/squirt ATF no matter what you do, so you will want a nice bed of absorbent underneath, and have a place scoped out that can take it for proper disposal.

every time I have to try and get liquid down one of those danged skinny "filler necks," I get an airlock from a bubble and lose about half the quart of fluid, anyway. seems like this would be a better resolution.

warning, I bet that bucket will empty quickly under pump suction, have somebody atop the ladder ready to yell "look OUT!" when they can almost see the bucket bottom.

sinjin_dog · May 2002

About 10 month ago, I had my local Toyota dealer flush transmission oil at an expense of $109.
After the change, my Previa will make big clunk sound as soon as I let the brake go from a stop to go.
Did not know what it was, but check the transmission oil level. It was way above upper part of
hot level. I drained it and about 4.3 quarts came out. The manual calls out 2.5 quart capacity.
The moral of story, the thunking sound disapeared and convinced that this particular bad dealer did overfilled. Be cautious.

sushko · May 2002

Anybody knows what can cause the following problem: after the new (52kmiles old) transmission unit has been installed on my 1993 Mazda 929 the overdrive mode does not want to work.

The following is observed:

1. I can not fix the HOLD button on the AT shifter in neither ON or OFF position

2. The HOLD sign on the indicator blinks.

3. When I drive the car, the engine does not shift to the 4-th (overdrive) gear.

4. After resetting computer the symptoms 1 and 2 disappear, but only temporarily -- until the car moves a few meters. Then it all (symptoms 1, 2 and 3 combined) starts over again.

Probably, the problem is not a mechanical in origin but rather a failure of some electrical circuits. Mechanic who replaced the tranny has already inspected visually all the electrical connections of the transmission unit but did not find anything wrong.

Anyone can help here?

Thanks a lot!

sushko · May 2002

Anybody knows what can cause the following problem: after the new (52kmiles old) transmission unit has been installed on my 1993 Mazda 929 the overdrive mode does not want to work.

The following is observed:

1. I can not fix the HOLD button on the AT shifter in neither ON or OFF position

2. The HOLD sign on the indicator blinks.

3. When I drive the car, the engine does not shift to the 4-th (overdrive) gear.

4. After resetting computer the symptoms 1 and 2 disappear, but only temporarily -- until the car moves a few meters. Then it all (symptoms 1, 2 and 3 combined) starts over again.

Probably, the problem is not a mechanical in origin but rather a failure of some electrical circuits. Mechanic who replaced the tranny has already inspected visually all the electrical connections of the transmission unit but did not find anything wrong.

Anyone can help here?

Thanks a lot!

joe3891 · May 2002

you start moving the VSS sensor is suppose to kick in,letting the computer know you are moving.If the computer thinks the car isn't moving it gets confused.I would scan it and see what codes are.

zr2rando · May 2002

I had a loose connection on 1 pin in a 4-pin connector to my fuel tank. You may want to verify that all connectors are tight and no pins are loose inside the connectors,,,sometimes just jiggling the connector will find the problem,,that's what I had to do in my case..
good luck
hint: just work with 1 connector at a time
see ya

glenn43 · May 2002

I live in Maryland. Anyone used any service center for BG products?

larieb · May 2002

I am going with an oversize aluminum finned transmission pan for my 5.4 liter ford van , I liked the idea about putting a magnet to pick up small metallic shavings , I am considering Epoxing a magnet to the bottom inside of pan but am concerned about after a while the transmission fluid eating away the epoxy and maybe magnet obstructing fiter somehow , any ideas or comments ... thanks Larry

adc100 · May 2002

I doubt it would block off the filter, but the epoxy could possibly dissolve and contaminate the oil. GM, looks like they use epoxy on theirs. Perhaps you could get a stronger magnet and epoxy it to the outside?? Just a thought. You could try it out before putting it in place.

frule · May 2002

I'd think twice about the epoxy idea.I use one of the best epoxies available to assemble heads to golf
clubs.It can be easily broken down in boiling water(212*F).

Better compare the temp of the fluid vs. the temp of breakdown.JMO

zr2rando · May 2002

Parts stores sell kits that you can put drainbolts into trans-pans that did not have bolts previously, I never used one but I have seen them. Maybe you can put a drain-bolt in your pan and just use a magnetic bolt, best of both worlds-better cooling and easier filter changing!
see ya

gsleve · May 2002

synlube they sell magnets that are rare earth much much stronger than ceramic and their designed to placed in the transmission pan on transfer cases transaxels their pretty good I use them for these purposes

stans40 · May 2002

Does anyone know the AT fluid capacity for a 2002 4 cyl. Camry? I looked in the owner's manual but couldn't find anything.

gsleve · May 2002

pour contents into a gallon jug that'll tell you how much should go back into the tranny it may be just under 4qts or exactly 4qts or a little more be on the safe side I'd drain and pour contents into a gallon jug

stans40 · May 2002

gsleve, thanks for the suggestion. I guess I didn't make myself clear. What I wanted to know was the total amount of AT fluid in the transmission so when I drain it, I will know what percent of the total I have removed.

wtd · May 2002

My 98 chevy ext-cab Z-71 truck has a tranny pan with drain plug. After changing the fluid & filter at about 20,000 miles for the first time, I just drain and refill about every 4 or 5,000 miles and keep fresh tranny fluid in it at all times. This may be overkill, but I want this tranny to last as long as possible. Plus a drain and refill only let out a little less than 3 quarts so doing it this way is probably best for this tranny.

gsleve · May 2002

converter holds an equal amout as the transmission therefore when you drain the tranny you've drained 50% of the total capacity of AT fluid both tranny and converter

you could also go to Autzones website look up capacity and they will give you the total however you'll have to subtract what had come from the tranny

armtdm · June 2002

4 or 5000 miles. That truly is overkill. Hope you have a drain valve and not a plug as often as you do it.

wtd · June 2002

As I stated before, it may be overkill, but I want to try to make this tranny last. I had this exact same transmission in my previous truck and it had to be replaced at around 36,000 miles and I changed fluid and filter in it every 15,000 miles. The 4L60E tranny is not very strong for a truck application plus when you use it to tow with. These trannys also have a problem with wearing out one of the bores for one of the shift solinoids in the valve body. Maybe by keeping fresh fluid in it, this problem will show up later, not sooner. I can tell when the fluid starts getting close to needing changed because I get more torque converter vibration. As soon as I change it, the vibration goes away for awhile.

The 4L60E holds approximately 11 quarts of fluid. a fluid and filter change only gets out about 5 quarts. A fluid change only, gets out less than 3 quarts.

As for the taking the drain plug out as often as I do, how is it any different than taking my drain plug out of my oil pan every 3,000 miles when I do an oil change? I've never wore out the threads in my oil pans at this interval. If by chance I do wear out my tranny pans threads, I'll just buy another one for $40 at my local dealership.

I do alot of stop and go driving and tow occasionally with my truck. This is hard on the transmission. Even though I have a tranny cooler, it needs all the help it can get. Fluid is cheap and it doesn't take much time to do and I have the piece of mind knowing that I always have fresh transmission fluid.

Wayne

mcalcankiller · June 2002

I'm an old timer..........been servicing my own vehicles for years. It never seems to amaze me how many people I know never change the tranny fluid. I do mine every 2 yrs-same as the antifreeze flush. I do the pan + new filter + drain routine. Just a hint: my 1997 E150 has a drain for both the pan and torque convertor. It took over 10 qts to refill.

Most of the [non-permissible content removed] cars have a drain plug. I will drain the Toyota each year (3-4 qts) and the E150 each 2 yrs because I can get 90% out of the E150. Most USA cars have no drain plugs; nesessitating the addition of a drain plug after the 1st time I drain & change the filter.

I'm a nut with fluid changes: Antifreeze, ATF, Rear Differential, Power steering, and brake fluid every 2 yrs. Engine oil: 3K + filter. Fram is junk. Use the Purolator or OEM. Fram went to Mexico yrs ago. When I switched to Purolator about 5 yrs ago I discovered both my /6 Chrysler and Toyota Minivan stopped clattering upon startup. The Frams had cheap valves. I use dino oil (Castrol or Valvoline).

joe3891 · June 2002

If your transmission is a 99-01 there is a up graded valve body to preclude TCC valve failure that will burn up a transmission.
There is also a cheap fix,either change a spring or block the valve.
If your tranmission starts to hard shift go for 1 of the repairs ASAP.

alcan · June 2002

Or buy the improved valve and distribution sleeve from Transgo or Sonnax.

dwbehrens1 · June 2002

I drain the trans fluid every 10K miles, getting out about one-third of it (2 to 2.5 quarts on Camrys and Corollas) using the drain plug on the trans pan. I change the oil at the same interval using Mobil 1. I change the oil filter when I change the oil and 5K later. I drop the trans pan every 50K to 60K and clean it and install a trans kit (new screen and gasket, $15 to $20 aftermarket). Dino oil for the trans. Synthetic oil for the engine, differential, and transfer case. I have had no drive train problems in over 450K miles with this regimen in Toyota cars and trucks for the last 16 years.

armtdm · June 2002

10K on the tranny. Wow a glutton for punishment. I have a 92 Camry with 145,000. Fluid switched to synthetic at 25,000 with the filter/screen changed. Fluid changed every 30,000 (drain and fill) and filter was again changed (didn't need to but replaced it as after inspection it was fine), only the magnets needed to be cleaned at 142,000. No tranny issues either. I go 7,500 on oil and filter using synthetic. Went 15,000 once but oil analysis was not good.

rubicon52 · June 2002

On your Toyotas does the tranmission drain plug have a gasket like the oil drain plug? If not, how can you be sure the transmission drain plug doesn't leak after you replace the drain plug?

armtdm · June 2002

Slightly different type of plug but no gasket. I put a little gasket sealer on the very back end of the plug but for some reason the plugs where you need a allen head type of socket to remove do not seem to leak. Oil pan plugs whre you use a wrench or socket wrench are more prone to leaks.

irishalchemist · June 2002

I usually post in the 626 board, but this one is related to tranny upkeep. As many of you are aware, the L4 626 from 95 has a CD4E (Ford) tranny with no pan to drop and no filter to change (unless you want to take it out of the car, remove the valve assemblies, etc., etc.). Although Ford says that the CD4E required no maintenance, this is pretty much BS. The only solution is the complete flush machines or the 'two-bucket' method.

Now, I have been warned that if a tranny has not been serviced for a long time (I have 80K on mine, bought it at 68K, so I think it has 80K with no service), doing a flush may screw things up. Thus, I opted for a less stressful solution. I sucked 2.5 quarts of the old fluid through the dipstick, and added 2.5 quarts of new fluid. I will dirve the car for a day, and then repeat this 4 or 5 times. By then, 80% of the fluid will be new. My idea is that if the detergents in the new fluid are dislodging crap from the tranny, it will not be as dramatic as if I did it all at once, and I would also be removing some of the junk with every drain/refill.

My plan is that after I do this and I have given the tranny time to 'adjust' to having new fluid, I will do a regular complete 'two-bucket' flush.

I know that it sounds really cumbersome, but is it a reasonable thing to do? Any comments and words of wisdom will be welcomed.

G.

armtdm · June 2002

adc100 · June 2002

I would go with synthetic oil. I'v had two Corsicas where I switched to syn after about 24K. I changed about every 30-40K. One vehicle had 130K and the other 70K with no problems.

rubiconno gasket. I just torque them to 20 ft lbs-get the torque value for yours. (20 should be OK though) Believe me, it won't come loose.

irishalchemist · June 2002

armtdm, they fluid was darker that what I wanted it to be. A dark red-orange, and smelled a bit acrid (I know new ATF isn't the most beautiful smelling thing, but...). A friend here at work looked at the little bottle I had with a sample and said "looks burnt to me..." I'm fearing that this means the tranny is toast but it just doesn't know it yet and it is still going. By the way, the tranny does everything it is suposed to do when it comes to shifting, kicking down, going to over-drive, locking up in fourth gear, etc., etc.

G.

bburton1 · June 2002

For what it is worth-had a couple of friends have major tranny problems after having their ATF changed at a quick oil change place-one used syn and don't know what the other used but both their DC mini vans tranny's died after less than 5K after the change. Be a pioneer if you feel brave but I would use the ATF in the owners manual. Nah Honda, GM, Ford and DC don't make ATF but they have engineers that design trannies and I would pay attention to their suggested ATF. DC ATF is real pricey but cheap compared to a new tranny.

bburton1 · June 2002

Had a CEL come on with a tranny code @ 70K on a 97 accord-check the ATF and it was dark and smelled burnt. Changed the ATF every 30K now and at 134K and no more CEL and no tranny problems.

I suggest changing every 30K-the Honda owners manual says change at 90K except in extreme conditions. I do all highway driving and thought this would not cause the ATF to over heat-wrong.

wtd · June 2002

in my 98 chevy truck and started to get some slippage so I switched back to conventional fluid.

armtdm · June 2002

I have used synthetic ATF in a Chev Corsica, Isuzu Rodeo, Toyota Camry, Mercury Mystique, Buick Regal and change every 30,000. Camry has 145,000. No transmission problems on any of them. Who knows, could be luck.

irishalchemist · June 2002

armtdm, how do you change fluid in the Mistique? If it was a 4 cyl., it had the CD4E, with no pan, no drain plug, no nothing...

G.

armtdm · June 2002

4 cyl Zetec engine. Yes, it has a drain plug just back of mid center on the vertical transmission housing. There is no pan but the tranny has a drain plug. Done it several times now. Gets about 3.4-4 quarts out.

irishalchemist · June 2002

armtdm, I checked, and your Mystique has the same tranny my 626 has. I'll jack up the car this weekend and check for the drain plug where you mentioned. Hopefully there is one in mine too, but maybe it was an improvement from 95 to 96 and mine will lack it (I'm a strong believer in Murphy's laws...).

I'm getting 2.5-3 quarts through the dipstick, but it would be nicer to let it drain to remove all the crud out...

G.

bryand21 · July 2002

I have a 1995 GMC Jimmy with 157,000 miles. I had the transmission fluid checked and it looked REALLY dirty. However, the truck is running fine, no slipping, no leaks or hesitation that I can tell. You want believe this, but I can't remember ever having the transmission fluid completely flushed, only drained from the pan and a new filter and I can't remember when that was done. Bad memory!! Can I have the whole system flushed with new fluid or will this start to cause problems since I have so many miles on the truck and the fact I can't remember when anything was done to the trans fluid?

Please Advise!!!!!

armtdm · July 2002

I would do at least two drain and fills maybe 100 miles apart. the flush may be too stressful and cause problems at this stage

bburton1 · July 2002

I saw a ad for a commercial tranny flush system and they sold the flusing fluid for so much per 5 gallon container. Wonder how much of that "solvent" remains behind. Also what does it do to the clutches and seals in trannies. Think it is probably a very risky operation.

Several people I know have said to completely change the ATF, disconnect the ATF line to the ATF cooler and divert it with a flexible tube to a large clear container, start the engine and fill at the same rate as the drain container fills. Sounds like a keystone cops maneuver but it might work.

swschrad · July 2002

another way to get that done if you figure on doing it more than once a life is to fasten a matching pipe fitting and tube to a bucket (braze to a galvanized pail??) and fill that with new tranny fluid of the proper variety. you will have to have somebody to yell at you to > STOP! < before the bucket goes empty.

I have not tried this, and probably won't.

alcan · July 2002

The line to disconnect is the return (upper) line from the cooler at the trans. This cleans out the cooler as well.

Regarding elaborate schemes re brazed fittings on buckets, etc, to refill the trans, forget it. Pump suction is from the lower sump in the trans, which coincidentally is where the filter is usually located, not from a cooler line.

wain · July 2002

I like the just drain it method.
lots of chances to disturb dirt or do something wrong with the filter change method.

Transmission fluid change-which method is better?

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