K&N genII vs. exhaust

bmoehrle

What would give me the best results. I have limited funds so I can either buy a K&N Gen.II or exhaust. I have a 2001 silverado 1500 5.3L. Please give any comments!!

Thanks,
Ben

jcmdie

No doubts, the exhaust will give more bang for the buck.

obyone

you buy....some lose HP.

mdub16

Which exhaust will lose HP? What causes it to lose HP?

obyone

back pressure to operate. Some of these aftermarket systems don't allow enough back pressure causing a loss of low end power. For duals 2.25" should be the max and on a single max is 3".

I had a Gibson swept side installed. The fit and finish of the product was great. However I lost a lot of lowend power and retained in cab resonance. Since I hated both symptoms, it had to go.

There are a lot of good systems out there. BnB, Borla come to mind. I ended up with a PVsystem, works great.

www.pvmufflers.com

rayt2

I installed the Borla side exit system on my truck within first 700 miles of owning it, skip the K&N or any other intake mod they really are not worth the money unless of course you go to a turbo setup.
I have a few pics of what can be seen on the exhaust at picturetrail, go to my profile for the link. The sound only gets sweeter and I now have 27000 on it. I got it thru Summit Racing for around $500. Oby has the PV which is another good setup. Install on Borla took 1 hour start to finish if your mechanically inclined, I saved the OEM (since it came off in one piece) for when I sell truck.

Ray T.

f1jules

It explains in detail what your exhaust system does and how it works.

http://www.nsxprime.com/FAQ/Miscellaneous/exhausttheory.htm

Here's a little snippet I'm sure will get some blood boiling around here: "You may hear a few SPMT's (self proclaimed master technicians) tell you that "Borla mufflers make horsepower!" Or "An engine needs some backpressure to run properly!" Nonsense. A muffler can no more "make" horsepower than Wile E. Coyote can catch roadrunners. Any technician with any dyno experience will tell you that the best mufflers are no mufflers at all!"

Read through the article, it's written with the import cars in mind (specifically, the Acura NSX) but the information would be applicable to any internal combustion engine.

obyone

so what is a muffler with no baffles? Oops did they tell u that at master tech school?

rayt2

Ya think we should send this article to PV & Borla to let them knbow they don't know squat about performance exhaust systems? LOL

Ray T.

obyone

and tell 'em a Tundra owner said so...ROTFLMFAO!!

f1jules

Did any of you skeptics actually READ the article? No, I didn't think so.

I didn't write the article; don't blast me as though I wrote it. Just some info for you to chew on is all.

I think someone who tunes Acura NSX's might know a bit about exhaust systems and how to extract performance from an engine. Probably more than the average pick-up truck owner anyway.

rayt2

and I repeat, maybe it should be sent to PV & Borla since according to this article they don't know squat about performance exhaust systems! Did You Understand my Post maybe is more to the point. I am not a skeptic just been hotrodding for past 35 years which gives me real time experience and know what does and does not improve performance from seat of my pants experience.

Ray T.

swooshman

I wondering if the K&N filter is worth the money.. My dad has one on his 01 F250 PSD... Works well and I was wondering if it would improve power and even fuel economy on a 94 Chevrolet with a 350 cid engine... I read that rayt2 said the following...

"skip the K&N or any other intake mod they really are not worth the money unless of course you go to a turbo setup"

What are other peoples opinions???

Swoosh Man

txyank1

They recommended I DO NOT put a true dual exhaust system on as it reduces the back pressure too much and reduces performance. So I bought one muffler instead of two!

f1jules

I don't claim to be an expert on exhaust systems but the article makes several good points about scavenging and exhaust pulses. Also, the most restrictive part of an exhaust system is generally the exhaust manifolds and the bends in the factory exhaust pipes.

Mufflers just make noise or reduce noise. Changing mufflers alone will not make much if any difference in perfomance (I'm speaking strictly from my own personal experience).

I did a muffler change on my last car, a '94 Mustang GT. I installed a pair of Flowmaster 2 chamber mufflers and did nothing else. No increase in performance, just an increase in noise (which I liked). By far the biggest change was when I installed a pair of Ford Motorsport headers. Now that made a noticeable difference.

If you look at most aftermarket systems they are more than just a muffler. A cat back system can greatly improve the restrictive bends in the stock exhaust and improve flow. I still don't think that by simply cutting out the stock muffler and slapping a "high performance" muffler in there that you're going to get any noticeable gains.

bmoehrle

If I went to the local muffler shop and had them put on new exhaust pipes from the cat back with their brand of everything in say a 3" would I get the same effect as say going to Borla or Gibson?

I really appreciate all of the feedback I have gotten on this subject and would encourage it to keep on coming.

Ben

obyone

That all depends if they have the machine to make the mandrel bends. It also depends on what type of muffler they used in conjunction with the new tailpipe. Since some are more restrictive than others.

What about headers? I've installed some shortys on mine which works best in the 4-5000 rpm range. They also increase the noise coming from your engine compartment along with the cold air intake. When I installed those three components, I did them one at a time driving in between installations. I noticed virtually no effect from the cold air intake and the headers. When installing the catback came the real change. It was a loss of power and in cab resonance. That has been resolved with my torch as I've cut that POS into twenty little pieces. Did I say I used to own a Gibson catback?

obyone

Here's a link for you:

http://www.pvmufflers.com/id4.htm

mufflers don't make horsepower. That's true. It allows power that's already there to be unleashed. Same with the catback.

http://www.pvmufflers.com/id5.htm

If you're looking to "make" horsepower, you'll need to look under forced induction......

f1jules

Your graphs prove my point. A catback will make a noticeable difference. Just changing the muffler will not make much difference.

I'll concede that an after market muffler can be much less restrictive than a stock muffler but that overall the restriction is in the factory tubing and bends as well as the stock exhaust manifold. Replace these with high performance models and you WILL notice a difference.

A few words caution though, replacing the manifolds with headers will increase exhaust noise.

obyone

for those of us that install headers and cold intake. ;-)

In the case of GM, they actually had a pretty good design on the exhaust manifold emulating what headers look like. Perhaps they figured it out that it was just as easy to make an efficient manifold as an inefficient one.

frankiejoe

as the owner of a 2001 dakota 5.9 i would appreciate any info on headers for it,i know Gibson makes'em but who else? thanks.

rayt2

Use the force........web search will show you the way to any and all aftermarket exhaust goodies. Good place to go is http://www.summitracing.com they'll mail order any place you want it sent to. Or http://www.borla.com ,just a couple examples of websites to utilize.

Ray T.

frankiejoe

thanks ray t

1badsidekick

I know this really isn't the place to be asking this, but I haven't gotten any responses from the other place I put my question. Hello, I have a 1998 Suzuki Sidekick sport with the 1.8 liter 4 cylinder and 5 speed. I saw a similar Sidekick, it might have been a year or two older than mine, with a really nice sounding exhaust on it this morning. I want one. I have considered it before, but now I'm serious, I want to beef up the exhaust and have a cool note. I don't want to it sound like a bumblebee on steriods, which the one I saw and heard this morning didn't at all. Any suggestions? I'd appreciate all the info I can get on this subject. Thanks!

rayt2

Go to Barnes & Noble and get latest Auto mag, look in the back at the ads for exhaust systems. OR use the net and do a search. It's that easy but you gotta do some of the work too!
Scroll back to my last post, Borla may make a system for your vehicle but Summit won't.

Ray T.

1badsidekick

Thanks for your response. I get Motor Trend and Car and Driver, I couldn't live without those mags. Cars are a passion of mine anyway, even though I'm stuck with what I could afford at the time...the sidekick. Now that the warranty is gone, (its been gone for a year...) I can make enhancements without fear of anything. I'll take a look in the mags and see. I searched the net before I got on here and asked that question, and I found nothing. A Suzuki Sidekick isn't exactly a hot little sports car to soop up like these civics and jettas and stuff. Borla sounds pretty good to me, I'll check it out. Thanks again!

1badsidekick

I just checked Borla, and it doesn't offer Suzuki in the make line. I'll have to try something else.

obyone

muffler and go to a local shop that does custom exhausts and mandrel bending and have them do it. Dont think you'll find much for a Suzuki online.

rayt2

Obyone is right I punched in your info and got NO returns for performance exhaust set-ups for your vehicle.
Keep trying or go the route Obyone mentioned.

Ray T.

txyank1

used. I buy a Flowmaster muffler and have a custom muffler shop install it and pipes.

jaguar0027

Flowmaster would you recommend for an 01 Rado 5.3 4x4 ext cab? I am not looking for a monster sound. I was thinking the 70 series?

Thoughts anyone?????

obyone

Hahaha!! thats sounds about right. It all depends on what you're looking for. Increased performance, increased noise, increased mpg or all of the aforementioned. One thing for sure, don't buy the Gibson, second Flowmasters do one helluva job on marketing...and I was never a fan of the Flows. I would check the following, Borla, B&B, and PV Mufflers. Course this is IMHO

1badsidekick

Thanks for the info. Whenever I get ready to put a new system on, I'll just go to the muffler shop and see what they can do. I know of one custom exhaust shop, and its in NC where I (technically) live, so I could have it done down there. I'm working in VA now, so I'm staying with my parents. I should finish up my job and head back to Lexington around the first of summer. Do you have any suggestions for mufflers, pipes, or anything? Or just ask them what they think would work? Thanks again for the info.

txyank1

with a 50 series on my '99 which I had used on all my previous trucks but WAAAY too much resonance inside the truck. A difference with the new x-cabs/engines/exhaust systems. So I switched to a 70 but it was rellay too quiet for my taste. So when I bought my '01 I called Flowmaster and they said their catback system uses a 70 and a resonator between the cat and muffler. Knowing that the 70 was on the quiet side I went with the 50 and a resonator (which the muffler shop knew all about as they do a lot of systems with Flowmasters). Turned out to be a good compromise. I'd still prefer a little more rumble but this sounds very good and nearly no resonance inside. My Wife has mentioned a very little bit if vibration on the passenger side floorboard.

jaguar0027

Thanks much for the info as always. I am still a little ways off from the mufflers, but just doing my homework.

Oby, I know u like the PV systems but are'nt they a bit pricey vs a Flowmaster???

Hmmmmmmmmm decisions.. decisons... LOL

obyone

A solution. John over at PVmufflers understands the marketing ability of Flowmasters. He developed a system which will increase the HP and torque on a Flowmaster system. So if you're ever not quite satisfied with the performance of the Flowmasters, you could add a powervault between the cats and the flowmaster muffler.

Hope this helps.

txyank1

I may have to check that out. Wonder if the PV would help with the resonance too. Could use in it's place.

akweiland

Just wanted someones opinion if they have a truck close to mine, I bought a 99 gmc2500(new body style) with the 6.0 vortech. I installed the Gibson first and didn't notice much more power, after installing the K&N Gen.II, wow, that made a hug differnce, I can almost beat anyone aroung my town, anyways, I then installed a Granitelli mass air flow sensor($330) rip off. It didn't do a damn thing. Anyone done these mods and noticed same thing??

obyone

Granatelli has two MAF for the silverado. One if for the stock air filter and one is for the K&N setup as the air is much more turbulent with the K&N. Do you have the right one?