Subaru Crew Cafe

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Comments

  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    OK - I get it. When you said NYC, I presumed Manhattan. Subaru shows 25 miles to the Bronx dealer - as the crow flies I presume.

    The SI dealer isn't participating??
  • bat1161bat1161 Member Posts: 1,784
    Not at this time. Then again, up to yesterday the Bronx dealer was not listed. You still have to contact the dealer, because even though they are on the list, they may opt out of participating.

    Mark
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    From AutoWeek:

    Lovers of cars and the English language will be saddened by the news of the death from cancer on Sept 7 of British auto journalist and author Leonard Setright. He was 74 years old.

    Setright was more than a writer about automobiles; he was a rabbinical scholar, a lawyer, and a musician, whose intellect showed in everything he wrote.

    He came to prominence in the field of cars with the mold-breaking British magazine Car in the 1960's. His articles appeared under the by-line of L.J.K. Setright, and it was only later in his life that Leonard John Kensell Setright dropped the initials in favor of his given name.

    Setright's erudite and sometimes wordy style fitted in well with the style of Car, which at the time was unique in automobile journalism. His columns, road tests, and technical articles were a major element in the magazine's success. Car influenced automobile magazines across the world, and as the recognition of Car spread so did Setright's reputation.

    Although he had not trained as an engineer, he was able to discuss technology with engineers at the highest levels in the industry, and his knowledge of tire design made tire industry executives hold him in awe.

    In addition to his contributions to newspapers and magazines, Setright was the author of many books, including those on his preferred brand, the British Bristol. In conversation he was as informed, self-assured, and eloquent as he was on the page, but he was better behind the pen than behind the wheel, where he always showed a tendency to examine the outer limits of a car's performance with little respect for his passengers' peace of mind.

    A strange combination of aloofness and good company, he will be missed by those who knew him and by the many more who knew him only through his writing. -Ian Norris


    Setwright is without a doubt the most enjoyable automotive I have ever read. Think of P.J. Wodehouse as being a gearhead, and you sort of get the picture. A brilliant and funny writer. Nobody—and I mean NOBODY—had a better grasp of the English language than did L.J.K. Setwright. The automotive community has lost a truly great writer. RIP.

    Bob
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    10.7:1 CR, 250 HP @ 6600 rpm and 219lb-ft @ 4200 rpm.. sounds like a high revver to me.

    2.5L turbo whomps that engine sooooo bad btw :)

    ~Colin
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Just got my October issue of CR and they have an interesting article on how the number of problems per 100 vehicles drops from the 1st through the 3rd year. They tracked a few manufacturers from 2000 to 2003 and summarized the data.

    Most manufacturers showed a steady decline in the number of problems from the first through the third year. Interestingly, both Honda and Subaru showed a decrease in the second year, but an increase in the third to levels close or above the first year. Completely bucking the trend was Nissan with the first year showing the most reliability!

    From a absolute value, the Japanese manufacturers showed the lowest first-year problems and the smallest change over the three years. The biggest swing came from BMW. They showed the highest number of problems of the models surveyed and subsequently the biggest improvement by year 3 to levels close to Japanese makes!

    Ken
  • smittynycsmittynyc Member Posts: 289
    Mark,

    Is the Bronx dealer Milea?

    If so, a couple words of warning -- one, the Subaru arm of it (it's primarily Pontiac/Buick/GMC) is really, really, really small. They have two Subaru salesmen and an inventory of maybe 12-15 Subies. Thinking from a good customer etiquette standpoint, it might not be the coolest thing in the world to tie them up with a 24 hr test drive if you have absolutely no intention of buying from them.

    That said, I wouldn't recommend that you buy from them anyway, at least not if you like to have the car serviced where you buy. I made the mistake of not checking out the service department before buying my Forester in 04 (the sales process went great, fwiw). I went there for my 3000-mile oil change and they didn't get to my car (7:00 am appointment) until 9:30 and didn't FINISH it until 10:30. Their waiting area is just awful -- no tables, just a handful of chairs, insanely overcrowded -- and the car had grease all over the driver's armrest when I got it back.

    Needless to say, that was that. I go to Town Motors in Englewood, NJ, for service now, and it's worth the trip over the river. The weird thing is that I live (Riverdale) MUCH closer to Town and to Smith Cairns (Yonkers) than I do Milea, but when I searched the Subaru site, they came back with Milea when I used the "Get a price" function. Go figure.

    And it's ridiculous for the Jersey dealers to exclude you because you're from NYC. Their car would be less likely to succumb to theft, an accident, or an act of insurance fraud while garaged in SI than in most of NJ. Just look at the insurance rates.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I meant it's not a 9000 rpm, VVT screaming wonder.

    10.7 isn't low compression, though. Let's see what the Subaru engineers say.

    Ken: you never learn, Mr. I Love v1.0! ;)

    -juice
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    LOL. Actually, with the exception of one or two minor things, my 2005 LGT has been quite reliable. Yeah, you'd figure after my beta testing of Raven that I'd be more wary, but I just couldn't resist the lure of the dark side! :-)

    Also, now that I've seen that there were very few (at least visible ones) changes in the 2006 model, I'm more than happy with my decision.

    Hey, wait. Sandy's at least V1.1!

    Ken
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Sandy was a late build, April '98 IIRC.

    I'd pick up a used '05 Legacy 2.5i Limited auto sedan for my wife in a second, though.

    -juice
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    That's right -- she's probably one of the last MY98s to roll off the line. I wonder if she has one of the hybrid Phase II/Phase I engines.

    Actually, I like the looks of the 05s better. I saw an 06 recently and they've chromed out the entire headlight assembly:

    http://www.cars101.com/subaru/legacy/legacy2006photos.html

    The 05 headlights with the black surround look a little more distinctive, IMO.

    Ken
  • grahampetersgrahampeters Member Posts: 1,786
    G'day

    Setright was one of those writers who initialy irritate, appearing to believe that wordiness translates to worth. I suspect for a long time that he was pad by the word, a la Dickens. With time I came to enjoy his learned articles in Car although I will admit to writing to Car suggesting that he could benefit from heavy editing.

    I recently read "Drive On! A Social History of the Motor Car" which is the most comprehensive review of the development of the motor car and its interface with society. As with all social history there are major aspects of his analysis which appear suspect but eh breadth of his survey and the detail contained init, were breathtaking. I've been contempating reviewing it for these pages for about a year.
    If you have the opportunity to get hold of a copy it is a fascinating,if heavy (physically and metaphorically) read.

    Setright was one of those exquisitely eccentric men that seem only to exist in England.By qualification a lawyer, he was self taught in the areas of technology where he would apply a lawyer's analytical disective skills to tear apart wordy arguments from various experts, ultimately arriving at a better understanding than any of the experts he interviewed. The difficulty this presented was that he became more expert than the experts in defined narrow areas of automotive engineeering.

    What a pity to see such a learned man die so comparatively young.

    Cheers

    Graham
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    Veering from our recent tire discussion on the 05 Leg/OB forum, I thought some people would be interested in seeing a new article about one of the tire test facilities we use at my NASA center:

    http://researchernews.larc.nasa.gov/archives/2005/90905/aldf.html

    It's pretty cool to see in action. At the end of the test track, they have a bunch of arresting cables, and all kinds of berms and bunkers to contain the test sled if the brakes fail. 54 tons moving at 173 mph is an amazing sight to see.

    Craig
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    " The test equipment will be propelled by over two million pounds of water and will travel down the track at speeds of 173 miles per hour."

    Holy moly! I'd love to see something like that!

    Ken
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I couldn't agree more Graham, especially: "Setright was one of those exquisitely eccentric men that seem only to exist in England." Oh how wonderfully true that is. I remember seeing a picture of him on a '50s-era British motorcycle with a sidecar (probably a Vincent Black Shadow, or an AJS, or some other somewhat obscure Brit-bike). That was LJK Setwright.

    I commented in another thread here at Edmunds that whenever you came upon a Setwright piece of writing, your were about to partake in a journey unlike any you have taken before. The man's depth of knowledge on virtually anything was astounding. Not only was he a lawyer, but also a rabbinical scholar and a musician. Certainly not your average automotive scribe, for sure.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Still look real nice.

    Tribeca has been getting all the attention but the fact is I'm sure my wife would be more than thrilled with a Legacy sedan. Since we now own a beach condo, we rarely have to pack very much. Plus we only take one road trip per year to CT, and we could rent a van if we had to.

    I have $100 Subaru Bucks so I'm about, oh, $22 grand away. ;)

    -juice
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    I'm starting to think about my Subaru bucks -- I have about $1200 stashed away. I do almost all of my purchases through that credit card on purpose, and tend to rack up the bucks quickly. But I don't foresee a new Subaru in the next 4 years so the bucks might go to waste. I have never spent enough on dealer servicing any Subaru to get up to $100 that would justify using a coupon. I do seem to remember that the Subaru dealers can order tires via TireRack now, and maybe the bucks can be used for that. Actually, that would be a good opportunity. I guess I could also start buying all sorts of accesories if expiration is imminent; there are certainly many LL Bean / Subaru apparel options out there!

    CRaig
  • capriracercapriracer Member Posts: 907
    Craig, the link worked.

    "I won't argue with you about tension, I agree with that completely! It's the key to the whole pressure vessel concept."

    I guess I was confused by your drawings. My first impression was that the circular drawings were the tire as viewed from the side. However, your followup drawing makes it clear that we are looking at the tire in cross section - say from the front - and only the bottom half at that.

    So let's take the equations from the circular drawings:

    A couple of points -

    1) I think A is the area p is acting on - which would be the diameter of the circle (times the unit depth in or out of the screen.)

    2) G is shown as touching at a point. Obviously that is not true, because the cross section of tires isn't circular in shape. Well, that's todays answer, but early tires were indeed tubes that were put into contoured rims, so there is no reason not to use this shape for discussion purposes.

    So if we assume a rigid body of the pressure vessel (in the case of a tire a rather poor assumption), then the ground contact would be a point - or at least very small. And if we build a tread onto the vessel so that we have some substantial contact with the ground, we could build the area of contact any width we wanted, so G = (ground contact pressure) X (tread width) X (unit depth).

    and: G = pA -T

    Meaning the ground contact pressure is independent of the inflation pressure.

    BTW, the Boeing publication you cited earlier (had a little trouble downloading it) is obviously referring to bias ply tires (the 1.6 elliptical footprint was the clue). Radial tires behave quite differently and the belt has a profound effect on the footprint. Most designers are trying to achieve footprints that are close to rectangular or perhaps with a slight hexagonal shape where one of the points of the hexagonal is the leading edge in the center of the tread for improved hydroplaning resistance.

    Hope this helps.
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    1) correct

    2) right, and again this is a case where the real ground reaction is really a pressure over an area, but we simplify it to an integrated force. Either would work.

    G=pA-T=constant is correct, and keep in mind it's due to the fact that G=W. No matter how the tire is inflated, or deforms or behaves, the ground reaction always has to equal the applied load (W in this case) to stay in static equilibrium. This happens no matter if the tire is rigid or not.

    You are correct, the contact patches I measured on my S2K front tire were indeed nearly rectangular. Here's an example:

    image

    (the tire smudge is faint in the image, but visible; unfortunately the graph paper rules don't show).

    Craig
  • capriracercapriracer Member Posts: 907
    I'm not sure, but did you agree with this part of the post?

    "And if we build a tread onto the vessel so that we have some substantial contact with the ground, we could build the area of contact any width we wanted, so G = (ground contact pressure) X (tread width) X (unit depth).

    and: G = pA -T

    Meaning the ground contact pressure is independent of the inflation pressure."

    Agree / Disagree???
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    If it's the same pA I was using before then I agree. But if it's not, can you draw a vector diagram/sketch showing the forces?

    I do agree that "G" is independent of the pressure and/or area. It's always got to equal W.

    Craig
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    image
  • capriracercapriracer Member Posts: 907
    "If it's the same pA I was using before then I agree."

    The p is the same, but I think the area is different. So I think I've found were we have a disagreement.

    But more importantly: "I do agree that "G" is independent of the pressure and/or area." which I think is what I was saying at the beginning - that the pressure in the footprint of a tire is not equal to the inflation pressure.

    I'm searching through some old "Tire Science and Technology" magazine issues to find someone who has measured accurately measured a footprint. I found one some years ago for a truck tire, but can't seem to locate the article at the moment.
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    that show car has been publicly demoed before. I have a big press shot of it as my current wallpaper here at work... :)

    it has a very BMW-ish beltline. the traditional Evo hood vent is there too but it's revised.

    ~Colin.
  • bigelmbigelm Member Posts: 995
    Apart from the massive grill overhanging the bumper line, this car is more aggressive looking than the WRX and better styling cues, IMO.
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    The other thing to do is cut through the tire where it touches the ground, which would basically leave a flat wafer of rubber (the rectangular/elliptical contact patch) with pA on one side (internal) pressing down, G (or its equivalent pA) on the other side pressing up, and then some force in the rubber (T) where you cut through. The two "A" terms would be equal in this case. Depending on the construction of the tire and the orientation of the cut, that T could possibly drop out in a vertical summation. For instance, if forces in a tire were hoop type forces, the vertical component going into the horizontal contact patch would very nearly be zero. In those situations where the internal pA=W, then it would be identically true.

    Craig
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Isn't that the new Subaru grill on steroids?

    I like it.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Despite the VW/Audi/Ford mouth-agape grille, I like it. I've seen the whole car, or the concept that preceeded it, anyway. They kept it very agressive.

    Hopefully the whole Lancer lineup will look like that, the current non-EVOs look nasty.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    image

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    I have not been a fan of the Z4's styling, but I have to say that adding this hard roof improves the looks 100%. The improvement is like night and day IMO.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Does look better, but the front still looks droopy. The profile I was OK with before, while the rear looks a little better. Still about one crease too many.

    -juice
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'd rather see them bring over the 1 series coupe and wagon.

    Though a lot of folks are gaga over the Porsche Cayman, so who knows?

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Though a lot of folks are gaga over the Porsche Cayman, so who knows?
     
    Yeah, and I'm one of them. :)

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Whenever I see a 2 seat coupe like that I always tell myself, "that thing would look great as a roadster".

    Anything that impractical should be totally impractical and have a soft top.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    But not the whole package.

    I think it's a minor improvement, but I wouldn't even call it attractive. Guess I'm neutral about it.

    -juice
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    add me to the list too... if I sold my house and got a cheap apartment I could afford one! :P
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    In a sense I kinda wish this was the direction that the 911 had taken, being a mid-engined coupe that is. In profile, as jiuce indicated, it reminds me of the old '63 Porsche 904, another favorite of mine.

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
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  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    That's not a RAV4 any more, they should call it a RAV6!

    3 rows! Though I doubt that 3rd row has any foot space. Neat how it folds back like the Sienna, also.

    I'm impressed. Seems a little narrow, so it might be Grand Vitara XL7 sized more than anything.

    Torque is class-leading, above the Forester turbo even.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    14" longer than old Rav4! Not happy about the new on-demand AWD, though.

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    It looks great!

    Between this, the new Rav4, and the new Civic, Subaru really has their work cut out for them in the next few years.

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Just got the latest issue in the mail. The new Impreza is detailed in there.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Now I wish I hadn't seen the rear. It just doesn't complement the aggressive front at all. Make it a true sedan, that looks like a shrunken R-Class.

    Eos looks great, best new age VW design IMO. The Jetta looks too Asian, the Passat is just too long with huge overhangs. The Eos looks just right.

    It's supposed to start at under $30k with the 2.0FSI engine, if so that'll be competitive. Right now all you have is the soft Sebring or the even softer Avalon in that segment. Beyond that the Mustang is too brute and the lux brands cost too much.

    It's the first VW to interest me in a long time.

    -juice
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    the Passat is just too long with huge overhangs.

    Juice - huge overhangs are a result of the new European pedestrian safety regulations I understand.
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    The rear gate, someone will be stabbed with one of those thing. :surprise:
    image

    -Dave
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