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Comments
No manual yet again; what a shame.
Also, is it roomier in here today, or is it just the echo that makes it seem that way? :P
It may still come, plus can the front wheels handle that much torque?
Aren't they supposed to make a wagon?
Add AWD and Subaru execs will have sleepless nights...
For the record, the headlights on that Sonata are how Subaru should have done the Legacy if they really wanted the "stretched" look.
The new Santa Fe will probably get the same V6 (276hp) as the Sorento, but mpgs suffer.
http://www.drive.subaru.com/Fall10/2011preview.htm
They must have gotten a lot of complaints.
Bob
Bob
http://www.autoblog.com/2010/10/05/subaru-launches-2011-mediocrity-marketing-cam- - paign-w-video/
Also, it's own website.
http://www.subaru.com/content/static/fightmediocrity/index.html
..Mike
..Mike
Funny ad campaign, for sure.
..Mike
A 5-speed AT or CVT would also be welcome.
At least both axles are "managed" by VDC.
I'll say it another way:
A Legacy GT doesn't need a rear limited slip.
There's a new Audi dealer a short distance from my home, but there's nothing XT equivalent from Audi in the USA (the A4 Allroad would be a viable contender, but it's euro only). Audi's are very low to the ground, which would be problematic in the snows we get in Portland OR (last two years my 'bu drove around a lot of stuck German cars). BTW the first car the new Audi dealer sold was an R10 for around $180K (sold before the showroom opened to the public !!).
The Nokian WRG2's are doing ok with probably 1 - 2 years more use before they wear down to their winter tread warnings.
I am really disappointed in Subaru's continued use of a 4spd auto. Heck, I'm disappointed Honda only has a 5 speed!
I must say the 7 spd auto in my G37 is really nice. As much as I like to drive stick, I can humbly say this tranny would be able to shift faster than I can with perfect rev match downshifts everytime all with me just flicking the magnesium paddles next to the steering wheel.
I think the days of the manual transmission are numbered.
Subaru had better get their act together with their trannys or find themselves on their heels like Toyota!
tom
Bob
..Mike
The AWD system is Nissan's ATTESA-ETS similar to the one in the GT-R without the rear diff. It is set at 100% RWD until slip is detected. It uses an electronic center diff (Electronic Torque Split- hence ETS) that monitors slip 100x/sec and can transfer 50% of power to the front to a viscous diff- almost instantly.
I have yet to test how good it is- just barely broke the engine in! Although it sounds like we're in for some snow this winter so I'll be able to tell you soon enough! But since the GT-R seems to do quite well with it's AWD system, I figured the G37x might be a reasonable AWD sedan.
It's fun to drive and has quite a bit of grip- not quite as much as the STI but it also doesn't lean over like the STI did! It's got a ton more torque lower in the rev range and in some ways "seems" faster even though I know it's not. It's a much nicer car to live with on a day to day basis than the STI to be sure, but there are days I miss the STI. Not many though.
tom
:P
I have run the gamut, in my imagination. So far I have considered:
GTi 5 door
Elantra Touring
Mini Countryman
Outback
used BMW 3 Wagon
WRX 5 door
Impreza 2.5i
Jetta wagon
Mazda3
Mazdaspeed3
Ford Fiesta (ya I know)
2012 Ford Focus
obviously this is a wildly disparate list. I make no apologies; it would be my daily commuter, since the MINI is Kirsten's. Some excel in driving dynamics, others in practicality, others in frugality, and others in utility. Not knowing what the financial future holds in these uncertain times, there exists a range in potential purchase price. It is what it is.
The stupid MINI has ruined me. I want a car just like it, but the size of a `99 legacy wagon
Meh. Maybe I'll just get an Impreza 2.5i 5 door, slap on a sway bar and the SSR Comps (I still have those!) and call it a day.
Thanks for listening. Nighty Night!
So, given the lifespan of the Outback, you will still want it to be exciting in 12 years! That narrows the list to :
GTi 5 Door
Mini Countryman
Outback (possibly not this year's model which seems a bit "off"
used BMW 3 wagon (you wouldn't would you!?
WRX 5 door
Impreza 2.5i
Jetta wagon
No Fords - they always end in tears. Like cute blondes, they are great to start with but get tired rapidly, particularly when you realize that the blonde colour is not natural...
Mazdas might be a possibility but... have they made anything beautiful after the Bertone Luce (1500)
The GTi is looking good.
I just ready an article in CAR that reminded me of my love affair with a 1990 VW GTi Mk II 8v. Probably the most fun that you could legally enjoy on a sinuous road - sunroof open, windows down and Thin Lizzy on the stereo - heaven!
But, like Jekyll and Hyde, a fabulous long distance tourer and fun city car.
Cheers
Graham
My first observation is that every vehicle you have mentioned is smaller than your current Outback, other than another Outback. Are you really sure with a family of four that you want to downsize, even if only slightly in some cases?
I would consider the Sonata turbo, at the least, but it seems like the v6 Fusion and a host of other midsize sedans ought to be up for consideration. Personally, I'm not interested in a compact sedan for my family of 3.
It took me 2 cars to meet those criteria.
Given you already have one Mini, I would really urge you to make the other vehicle the bigger trip-oriented car.
Fiesta - no way no how, WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAy too small. My friend got one and I barely fit in the back seat, you have to move the driver's seat way up.
Go sample a Mazda5. It's a super-sized Mazda3, and handles like a small car but mimicks a minivan (emphasis on mini).
Since I looked at it, they gave it more power and a better transmission (5EAT w/manual control), and I think you can still get those in manuals if you want to go that far. It's a 4+2, but the +2 is fine for Q's instruments, or the port-a-crib, and later you can car pool the little tikes around (I bet you use the 6 seats at least once a week).
A new one is coming and may be worth the wait, but these are dirt cheap bargains IMHO. Fitz has 3:
Sport Auto: $16,173 (probably cheaper than that Fiesta)
Touring Auto: $19,255
Grand Touring Auto: $21,165
That GT has leather, 17" alloys with V-rated tires, moonroof, LED tails, HIDs, electroluminescent gauges, 4 disc brakes, traction/stability control (finally), 6CD, bluetooth, and most importantly - 6 cup holders!
That last part was a joke.
Any how, to be perfectly honest, as a dad with 2 kids, that's absolutely as small as I'd even consider going for the primary trip/family car.
Other options - another Outback, Passat Wagon.
On your list I think the Jetta wagon TDI would be my pick.
The Mazda 5 would probably be a great solution but IMHO, the 2011 redesign isn't that attractive.
As for the Passat wagon, they are no longer offered. The Jetta Sportwagen (that's how they spell it) is based on the MKV - not the new MKVI - which many will say is a good thing.
The new Focus 5 door looks like a winner.
How about a Transit connect with the rear seat option?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ql-N3F1FhW4
My guess is some sort of Euro-wagon will come the closest to filling Loosh's needs/desires.
Bob
A minivan is not on my radar. Wouldn't mind a new Grand Cherokee, though...
Bob
Grand Cherokee isn't really any bigger inside than a Forester. Wider, perhaps.
Lucien would need a Durango or Explorer in that class.
But it can do so much more than a Forester, and is far more luxurious. Plus it's not saddled with an ancient 4-speed automatic. Yeah, it's pricier, but you get what you pay for.
"Lucien would need a Durango or Explorer in that class."
Only if he needs a third row seat.
Bob
I think the Outback is currently underpowered in 2.5 guise. And I am not enthusiastic about the auto in the 3.6. Nor does it handle well on the road, or perform admirably in braking. I always have felt our OB had to work too hard with all of us plus a couple of bikes up. Hence my thinking that a WRX with a pod up top could be an agreeable compromise.
Nonetheless, OB is likely where we'll go. I don't trust VW just yet.
Once again as usual Lucien needs a 2.5GT manual wagon. And once again as usual, Subaru won't sell one when he needs it.
So I'll be fixing the current car for another year, maybe two. And see what's on offer then, and how the budget looks.
Bob
BTW, I drove a new '11 Forester Touring the other day. It was very nice (except for the automatic tranny). It certainly doesn't handle like my WRX, but it's much better than my wife's '01 Forester.
Bob
But I'm happy to surrender my clutch. I won't miss it. I can row my own on 2 wheels. To me the most important factor in "fun to drive" is the horsepower and torque. I don't carve many canyons as a dad, not that Kansas is renowned for them anyway. :P. My evo has awesome brakes but I don't think it is a coincidence my stock pads lasted over 60k miles.
So yeah. Power.
Healthy six cylinder or turbo four, 5 or more speed auto of any type (dsg is damn cool, though), sedan or small/midsize ute. Done.
Sedans are a non starter here. bikes, bike trailers, camping gear, musical equipment....our life is not a sedan life. wagon or mini ute.
and after last winter, I gotta say, AWD is nice to add to the mix, although I suppose most of the time it's irrelevant.
Isn't Hyundai supposed to do a Sonata wagon? The 274hp turbo sedan runs $24k, a wagon would still be $25k or so. If they do, that would be a HECK of a bargain, a good $4k less than an H6 Outback.
I'm sure market research showed that the 16 people interested in a TSX wagon with a manual didn't justify the certification costs.
On another forum I visit, there were grumbles that Acura didn't bring the TSX wagon with the diesel and a manual - I'm sure the 2 poeple that would actually buy that combo will be happy with a Jetta.
The Sonata may come as a wagon soon but AFAIK, Hyundai hasn't said anything.
The RD-X and MD-X don't come in manuals, so I don't think they have a single wagon bodystyle choice with one.
http://www.acurainthenews.net/video-2011-acura-tsx-sport-wagon-ad-blitz-begins/#- more-102
I know we think that sports means it should have a manual but Hondaphiles will be happy to get something. In reality, most of the competition doesn't offer a manual version either. No stick in the A4 Avant, the Jetta offers one only in the base or TDI models, there's no Legacy wagon offered, there is the 9-3 Sport Combi.
Bob
I know what you mean. Mine has 183k now, and my long-range crystal ball sees one, maybe two more Subarus in our future (Grace likes the Forester!) The 99 is going to need some work - the center diff is on its way out - but that's still cheaper than new, and there's nothing comparable in the Subaru lineup right now.
I'm about 6 years away from retirement, so it would be nice to have a couple newer cars bought and paid for before I pull the pin.
If we sell the trailer and go back to a (smaller than before) motorhome, we'd have no need for the towing capacity of the Suburban. The truck and/or a small trailer would suffice for our hauling needs.
Cheers!
Paul
183k? Ok good, that gets me to 2014!
ugh. just got back from a hop in the MINI, I am hopelessly in love with the thing. Especially the brakes. I just hate the idea that, most of the time, I just drive myself to and from work in a car that gets 19mpg city. Whereas the Cooper gets 26 or so, goes fast, stops well enough to bruise your harness shoulder, and is so driver oriented- from headlight throw pattern to steering weight. Champagne tastes on a beer budget, as my college guidance counselor told me in high school. That hasn't changed, I guess.
perhaps I should get another Mini, and plan on trading it off on a family car in 5-6 years when the kids hit the lanky stage and really demand more car.....? By then we'll know exactly what our needs are, Elie will be 12 and Axel will be 6. Forester 2.0D by then?