Subaru Crew Cafe

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  • jimmyp1jimmyp1 Member Posts: 640
    That's REALLY off the Dodge Corporate website? Somebody didn't talk things over with the legal staff.

    Jim
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Lil' Sis is fine, she was home this weekend with my dad and step mom. She's a very slow and conservative driver.

    I'm gonna take her to the Subie dealer for a follow-up test drive soon, too. She seemed to prefer the Forester, but I think my dad was putting on pressure to get a Camry, who knows why given one of his went up in flames (literally).

    I'll show her an OBS and a Legacy too.

    Those doofuses at Dodge marketing are gonna give it higher insurance rates than anything else. The WRX is quicker off the line anyway.

    -juice
  • lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    I had to register with my email and DOB to access the link originally. I'm flabbergasted.
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    Click on the GO link from the SRT-4 page over at http://www.dodge.com/srt-4/index.html?context=homepage&type=t- op right by this quote:

     "See SRT-4 in action in this 5-minute street fight"

    I guess it's no different than the BMW films ("The Devil" had a race down the Las Vegas strip). *shrug*

    And he gets to kiss the girl, awwwww how sweet. ;-)

    -Brian
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    That must be one real sup'd up SRT-4 cause it's muffler didn't sound like what I heard, and it certainly looked like it handled better than the SRT-4 I saw at the AutoX.

    Oouuu oouuu... I think I hear foot steps of SoA's lawyers a cometh for Dodge ;-)

    -Dave
  • lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    In the BMWfilms.com shorts, the message that the average driver shouldn't be doing this is presented subtly, but effectively. The central character is a professional driver by trade, not some n00b off the street. All of the stunts are undertaken as a matter of life or death for someone in the film. In the 2 instances where this is NOT the case, one ("The Star") has enough humor content to make it a bit farcical. The other one ("Devil") has a bit more relevance in terms of street racing. Again though, the adversary is Satan himself, replete with dream-sequence imagery and a supernatural transportation of the 2 racers to a desolate stretch of empty road. A very different feel and certainly a different message than this Dodge thing.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    That is funny. I'm writing to Dodge right now to see what customer service has to say about it.

    That is totally whackky. I can't believe the dodge lawyers let that slide!

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Problem is, Dodge doesn't even BEGIN to understand how to appeal to the "Import" crowd. They're not gonna get people out of Civics, much less WRXs.

    Here's the demographic, as they see it:

    * couch potato
    * loser with a bully brother
    * thief
    * dates a materialistic girl
    * hopeless relationship doomed (it's not his car)

    Yeah, that's who I want to be.

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    To every news agency in the country on this.

    There is not one disclaimer, nothing.
    Crazy. I am soooooo fuming mad now! ARGGGGGG

    -mike
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    Anyone want to sue for slander?

    -Dave (decent law abiding Subie [WRX] owner)
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    paisan I'm a bit sickened by this personal mission you seem to have taken up.

    is there no sense of personal responsibility any more? is everyone driving a black Civic a hijacker and every green Eclipse equipped with two big blue bottles of NAWS?

    the video is stupid, no argument there. if I kill myself doing 150mph on my ninja, it's not kawasaki's fault. the more idiots that think it is, the more likely it will become that these sorts of machinery won't be for sale any longer. if they don't outlaw them, they'll make them impossible to afford and achieve the same goal.

    :rolleyes:
    -Colin
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Or by the video?

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    They're gonna occupy all our hospital beds, Colin! We're just concerned citizens! ;-)

    -juice
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    Looks to be a very very tiny 'professional driver' or 'closed course' blurb on the beginning of the street race near the bottom. I really couldn't make it out, but it is very very subtle.

    Nothing at the beginning or in the credits though.

    FWIW, I liked the BMW films and didn't think they were in bad taste. 'Star' was the best with that 'launch' out of the tunnel.

    -Brian
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    it could have been worse - at least there was no cops chasing the SRT-4 in all that high speed action.

    -Brian
  • lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    I think the difference is Kawasaki isn't showing a video on its website of a gang of riders blasting up a commuter parkway at 100+mph, weaving in between cars and popping wheelies on the shoulder. Of course this is what appeals to a young, reckless demographic that buys a lot of these bikes (at least here in MD) but Kawasaki isn't actively baiting them with video of that behaviour.

    Please note I am a firm believer in personal responsibility, but I also think corporations have a responsibility. I don't think Dodge has any obligation to stop people from doing stupid things in their products, but actively promoting the product through depicitions of stupid behaviour is not too good an idea.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Most car makers do it indirectly, but that's the most blatant case I remember seeing.

    -juice
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    all the flak about the WRX commercial with the 2 younguns driving through the twisties with the radio off?

    -Brian
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yeah, but my point then was that it was *nothing* compared to what some car companies do. Dodge has conveniently offered proof positive of my point.

    Two guys driving on a curvy road turn down the radio to pay attention to driving (no traffic in sight), vs. street racing a stolen car.

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Yeah, this makes that clip with the radio off look like an alter boy!!!!

    -mike
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    The depiction of the characters was not in good taste either.
    Dodge = your average clean (well almost) cut kid being suckered by a girl.
    WRX = gangzta looking hoodz cruising around looking for a race, and instigating a race.
    I view that as slanderous, and racial.

    -Dave
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It's bogus anyway. Motorweek measured 0-60 in 6.0 for the SRT-4, 5.6 for the quicker WRX. C&D's benchmark is 5.4 for the WRX, 5.6 for the Neon. I can't find one publication that has the Dodge being faster.

    -juice
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    I bet it's faster in a 5mph rolling start, but that's beside the point.

    -Colin
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Funny thing is the video had it the other way around, the WRX getting the hole shot, then the SRT-4 passing.

    Any how, lame ad. Here's a great one:

    http://www.honda.co.uk/newcars/accord300k.html

    It's the euro Accord, here the Acura TSX. Wagon, no less. :-)

    -juice
  • lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    ...an M3 for sale around here... heh heh
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    LOL

    yeah Loosh, I've noticed you are in OT with some regularity. I see Ed posting there every now and then too!

    just posted a picture of me holding a bottle of shiraz in a different thread. :-)

    -Colin
  • lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    well there have been some threads actually worth contributing to of late. And having the War in Iraq as a separate room has done wonders for my blood pressure ;-)

    -Loosh (<--political moderate, therefore everyone's enemy in NASIOC OT)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Went and drove one of these last night. Very nice, I was impressed. Just a couple of nit-picks and one big Achilles Heel.

    Drove a 6s 5 speed auto with sport shift. The auto tranny Subaru needs to start offering NOW. Good, close ratios, very smooth shifts. The sport shift response was slow, my only complaint with the tranny. Subaru's is quicker.

    Engine was nice, thumbs up. Still made power high in the rpm range, though. That's OK, it was quick. Slower than the Altima but more refined, and definitely never felt underpowered at all. It rides much better, and it quieter on the road.

    This had leather, moonroof, 17" alloys, it was loaded up for $26 and change. That's good because loaded Camrys and Altimas hit $30k.

    Nit picks? The slow-shifting tranny. The rear seat is not as comfy as I remembered from the NY auto show last year. No toe room under the seats at all made it less comfy than our Legacy. The side mirrors were not break-aways, cost-cutting? Odd when you have lots of neat bonus features.

    Nice features like multi-link hinges to open the huge trunk, 15 cubes! Our 626 has just 11 or so IIRC. Very nice styling inside and out. Sporty suspension, just right, not too jittery like the Altima, but not too soft like almost every other sedan I've driven.

    Red gauges and silver trim are a bit of a stretch, but link it to the RX8 and make the interior several steps above the Altima's. Tilt and power telescope wheel, wow. Rear armrest. Spring loaded back seat Subaru should copy. Dual tip exhaust. Side curtain bags offered. Perforated leather. 220hp. Lots to like.

    But...I did not fall in love. From a dead stop, we were turning onto an on-ramp, uphill. Needed to accelerate uphill on a turn, and FWD disease reared its ugly head. Torque steer tugged the steering wheel nearly out of my hands, it was hard to aim the car properly. I was so distracted that I hit redline before shifting to 2nd, at least the tranny bounced off red line and didn't shift by itself, which gives the driver more control.

    Note this was a broken in program car with 3000+ miles, so no harm driving it hard.

    So I still demand AWD, but I'd love to see Subaru copy the 5 speed sport shift, the spring loaded back seats, the cool trunk hinges, and the extra power.

    Among FWD sedans, I think I'd put it down as my favorite (that I've driven). Thumbs up for what it is.

    Bob - they had an Acura dealer right next door, but they were closing. It would be intereting to compare one to the TSX. The 6s would be hard to beat in the FWD class with that price and 220hp though.

    Make it a wagon with AWD and I have to admit, I'd give it serious consideration.

    -juice
  • kenokakenoka Member Posts: 218
    The wagon should begin production next February. All other markets have an AWD variant, so keep your fingers crossed. What I'm personally hoping for is an AWD hatchback (preferably with a turbo version of the 2.3 liter four, but hey I'll "settle" for the V6). I agree that FWD is probably the single biggest glaring weakness of the 6. Torque steer is not nearly as prevalent as it is in the Altima though.
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    Good 6 review, juice. Sounds like a decent car with some well sorted details, others not so well sorted.

    Colin, Loosh: I show up in OT very rarely, mostly when it relates to food and beverages. Too many little soap operas and scatalogical coversations going on over there! I spend most of my time in Forester Forum, a little in Tri-State, a little in Motorsports (less now that I have little time for auto-x or backroads drives).

    Ed
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    True, the Altima had worse torque steer (and a harsher ride), but you can still feel FWD's limitations. Perhaps 220hp is just too much for the front wheels to harness?

    I drove a Protoge5 and it was similarly tuned, sporty. No torque steer in the 130hp engine. Maybe the 6i is better balanced? 160hp ain't bad.

    -juice
  • kenokakenoka Member Posts: 218
    Many people have reported that the 6i is better balanced than the 6s. With 200 lbs. less weight in the front and 60 fewer hp, it feels more nimble and of course less prone to torque steer.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Could be, I thought there was more than enough power. Deleting weight is always a positive. Is it really 200 lbs heavier?

    -juice
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Nice write-up juice. Good point about the sportshift. Subaru really needs to make it more available -- preferably in 5-speed.

    Ken
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    http://www.blueovalnews.com/2003/tbird/reduxundone_joseph.050103.- htm
  • kenokakenoka Member Posts: 218
    Afraid so. Listed weights with manual trannies:
    6i: 3042 lbs.
    6s: 3243 lbs.
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    I drove a manual tranny 6 and liked it, for a FWD car it handled well. Didn't bother trying the stomp gas / turn one way from a dead-stop thing, that's obviously going to generate torque steer or at the least, serious understeer.

    -Colin
  • hondafriekhondafriek Member Posts: 2,984
    There is no fun in taking a test drive in Ottawa, you never ever get to take a car out without a salesman in the car with you.

    They usually have a milkrun to drive so it is pretty hard to get a fun drive, ergo not really worth the time to go get a new out for a test.

      Cheers Pat.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Good article Bob. I think the reason the Cooper sells is the enthusiast appeal. Look at how long the completely impractical Miata has survived, there are half a million on the road.

    The PT Cruiser succeeds for a different reason - it's practical. It's a little cheap wagon underneath those retro looks. People that have one don't suffer a hang over 3 years later, there is actually a useable car when the fad wears off. Not so with the Beetle.

    201 lbs, wow.

    Colin: funny thing is it wasn't even done on purpose. I had to cross a 3 lane intersection that was busy. Even after waiting I only had a small window of opportunity. So I punched it. I don't think I had ever seen a front-axle boogey, but that's more or less what it did. ;-)

    Pat - this was a demo that the guy with me was actually driving daily. Nice thing was it was broken in, he didn't hold me back, though the roads were not twisty and it was already dark.

    -juice
  • hondafriekhondafriek Member Posts: 2,984
    like I said the problem here with test drives are a yappy saleman,+ they have a route usually through a residential area, so the fun factor is nonexistant.

      Cheers Pat.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Subaru and the world of rally racing lost a great one. Possum was injured in a freak head-on auto accident on Good Friday. He suffered severe head and leg injuries and was on life-support.

    RIP Possum.

    http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=34- 7674&pagenumber=1

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Pat: I always do some highway travel, to get an idea for road noise, on-ramp acceleration, and hopefully, lateral g's on the on- and off-ramps.

    This is way, way off topic, but this is the Cafe right? Any one seen the video for the song "Beautiful"?

    Why would juice mention a Snoop Doog video, you say? Well, it's set in Brazil, in Rio de Janeiro. Very cool scenery, it shows Copacabana beach, Sugar Loaf Mountain, the Christo Redentor statue, etc.

    It's a neat little peak at Brazilian culture, too. They show a percussion group doing a "batucada", samba style, there's a "sagui" monkey, fute-volei (beach volleyball soccer-style). And of course the Mulata girls.

    Saw it in MTV early this AM. Funny thing is my 9 month old was dancin' to the beat! :-)

    At the end you see "Obrigado Brasil" in text, nice because they spelled Brasil the way we do.

    -juice
  • jfljfl Member Posts: 1,398
    I'm the guy who has an extreme dislike for Honda cars. (Having owned two.)

    However, this ad is really impressive!

    This is from a Honda ad in the UK. It's not the company website as it's been getting lots of hits.

    Jim

    http://paradiselost.com/index.php?module=htmlpages&func=displ- ay&pid=2
  • grahampetersgrahampeters Member Posts: 1,786
    G'day

    Of course the real amusement is that it took 606 attempts to get the Honda parts to work together - "Isn't it nice when things just work"

    Indeed!

    Cheers

    Graham
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Hmm, I thought it was staged. The rims seem to roll up hill, which I don't get. Also, the muffler seems to take a couple of extra rolls too.

    -juice
  • jfljfl Member Posts: 1,398
    Great point Graham!

    Well...it IS staged. In the article, it states that the rims were weighted to roll up-hill.

    Jim
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=3844- 762#post3844762
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Keep in mind JD Power IQ measures just the first 90 days. I'm much more interested in their Durability Study, which looks at 5 year old models.

    Also, if you think about it, they were measuring a new Forester and a still relatively new Impreza, against a tried-and-true Outback. The Baja is a nice surprise, but it's competing with trucks. Only the Tacoma has decent reliability in that class.

    It does raise eyebrows, but still, let me know how a vehicle does after the warranty expires, when I have to pay for repairs.

    -juice
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    Anyone else having trouble still accessing the Dodge SRT-4 video? I even went to the website and tried downloading the high res, low res, QuickTime, Media, and preview versions. No luck. Makes me wonder what happened...

    -Ty
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    paisan took 'em down single-handedly! YEAH boy!

    LOL

    -juice
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