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Toyota Tundra vs. Chevrolet Silverado

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Comments

  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    And how much will this bling machine cost, since you have to buy all the features to get the engine?
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    I guess his response got under my skin with such misinformation ;) I feel better now though. :D :P

    Rocky
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Ford Lighting is no longer made but was easily whipped by the 6-speed manual 400 hp. SSR. The fastest lighting I ever saw ran 0-60 in 5.3 seconds. That was very fast back in the day. I will also dig up the past also with the 91' GMC Syclone that would out run the current and famous R/T. To put it simpily the GMC Syclone is the fastest truck ever made 0-60 in 4.4-4.6 and Quarter mile in the high 12's and was actually faster than that when a rainy mist was present which cooled the Syclones intercooled turbocharger.

    This isn't apples to apples. Heck, I'm not sure the SSR is even the same food group as the rest of these. It was a convertible with a carpeted bed and no real "truck" capabilites.

    And a 1991 vehicle? I guess that's apples to decaying apples, since that's a truck that is 16 years old. At least then, the 4-speed automatic that comes standard in GMs and Fords wasn't outdated.

    I don't have irons in GM's or Toyota's fire, so I'm trying to be objective.

    The Lightning and Syclone are both irrelevant to this discussion, best I can tell.

    How much is that Denali looking to cost?
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    I haven't heard for sure. Some say the base will be $43-45K range. A loaded out one could run you close to $50K I would assume. The good thing is the consumer will be able to negotiate the cost down. I seriously doubt the Tundra buyer will be able to do that because of demand which is limited to 200K. ;)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    Doesn't the Tundra come standard with a 4-speed automatic ?

    Rocky
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    love the mixed metaphor
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    I will say it again their's more to a truck than just it's powertrain. the 5.3 is a proven high mileage, ultra reliable engine. If I was driving the 5.7 I'd be concerned with sludge issues and such since that is making news.

    While I know that you were just poking with a sharp stick - the 'sludge' issues were on 90's engines developed in the 80's. There have never been any reports - ever - of any of the new VVTi or dual VVTi engines ever experiencing any kind of sludge.

    It's in the past.

    I am sure that one or two of the vehicle mags will be doing some kind of head-to-head this spring, if it's not done already. It will be interesting. But having driven all 5 of them recently I can tell you that you heard it here first. The other 4 will be smoked in every category except, maybe, hauling where the top three are close.
    Acceleration ( free and under load )
    Braking
    Standard Equipment
    Safety equipment

    And to top that off... disregarding ridiculous incentives the Tundra is generally lower in price, similarly equipped.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    2007 GMC Sierra Denali

    The King of 1/2-Ton Pick-ups

    http://www.sportruck.com/news/2007-GMC-Sierra-Denali/index.htm

    This should satisfy you........

    Rocky


    Dated? Oct 2006 5 months before the Tundra beast hit the streets.... 5 months as No 1 is a good reign. :shades:
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    The 4.0L V6 and the 4.7L V8 both have 5 speed AT's. The 5.7L beast comes only one way with a 6 spd AT and the towing package is standard on all the V8's. No Charge

    GM/F are still stuck with a 4 spd AT. Plus, the other 4 charge anywhere from $350 to $1200 for a tow package.

    Again I think that this is intentional on GM's part in that it wants buyers to move up to the DuraMax. Ford OTOH has very few options given their current state. GM has the best diesel powertrain; Ford is suing its partner and supplier over its diesel powertrain.

    Ford currently is using an out-of-date engine as their primary 1/2 ton workhorse and it has no other option on the top end. Unless it has a miracle engine under wraps for the 2009 renewal it's in deep doo doo for the next 7-10 years. But given its financial state where is the money going to come from to develop such a miracle engine. It needs to do cars in the worst way and it needs to get the new crossover Explorer to market tomorrow. All the while it's burning through $20 Million every single day ( that is it's sending out $20 Million more every day than it takes in ). It may have to live off a very loyal fan base like the Red Sox did for the foreseeable future.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    While I know that you were just poking with a sharp stick - the 'sludge' issues were on 90's engines developed in the 80's. There have never been any reports - ever - of any of the new VVTi or dual VVTi engines ever experiencing any kind of sludge.

    It's in the past.


    Kd, that was a sharp stick. I'm sorry :blush:

    I am sure that one or two of the vehicle mags will be doing some kind of head-to-head this spring, if it's not done already. It will be interesting.

    Yeah, it will be interesting. My prediction is the 5.7 vs. 5.3 will win. I can see and understand that. If they use a 6.0 vs. 5.7 that might make it close enough to give the Silverado a fighting chance. ;)

    But having driven all 5 of them recently I can tell you that you heard it here first. The other 4 will be smoked in every category except, maybe, hauling where the top three are close.
    Acceleration ( free and under load )
    Braking
    Standard Equipment
    Safety equipment


    So you've test driven all the 07's ???? Like the Tundra, Silverado, Titan, F-150, Ram Hemi, Ridgeline, Sierra =7, right ????

    Can you give more details ????

    And to top that off... disregarding ridiculous incentives the Tundra is generally lower in price, similarly equipped.

    Yeah, they are pretty close. I however know people that are paying close to invoice on the GMers. If that is true then the Silverado, IMHO will be the better deal if people are able to negotiate $3-4K off w/ $1K incentive. A co-worker was only able to get $1500 off but that was like almost 2 months ago. GM, has a promotion going on now where you can get $1K off for GM loyalty. I haven't seen very many new trucks on the lots down here because they are red hot !!!!

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    Yeah, the Denali doesn't come out until next month. The Silverado however is the current king. ;)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    Well supposably once they can get enough 6-speeds to be available they will slide those in and the 4-speed will go bye, bye..... ;) GM, has to share the 6-speeds with Ford since they co-developed it. ;)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    Kd, The Slade EXT is the dictator. :P

    Rocky
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    So you've test driven all the 07's ???? Like the Tundra, Silverado, Titan, F-150, Ram Hemi, Ridgeline, Sierra =7, right ????

    Tundra 5.7L, Silverado 5.3L, Titan 5.6L, F150 5.4L and Ram 5.7L HEMI

    IMO the Silverado looks the nicest from a traditional pov and it has the most upscale interior. My beef is that it almost looked too dainty. The buttons were well placed and tight but too small for me. I can see some worker getting pi$$ed at something and smashing at it with a fist. The Tundra certainly looks different but it's a reflection I think of a statement Toyota is making: 'Here it is love it or hate it but you've got to accept that it's here now and it's gonna stand out. Take your best shot.'

    The Tundra was significantly better than the others in performance....and its turning circle is at least 3 ft shorter than any of the others.. and yet it's bigger than the rest.
    The Titan is quick but it's not designed to carry very much.
    Surprisingly the Ram with the 5.7L HEMI isn't very good in hauling either.
    The F150 with the 5.4L is a solid workhorse, it can haul and it can tow, but it just can't do either very fast. A burro rather than a thoroughbred.
    The Silvy with the 5.3L is the weakest of all 5 in towing but it hauls very well.

    All of the other 4 are seriously lacking some standard equipment.
    .. You can't get Stability Control or Side/Curtain airbags on any F150 at any price.
    .. Nissan charges $1200 for side and curtain airbags. GM $715.
    .. Stabilitrak/ESC/VDM is optional on all but the top end models for GM/D/N.
    .. Nissan and Dodge have 5 spd AT's GM/F only 4 spd AT's

    GM has the 'best' PT Warranty but it's a bit of a mirage. If you drive 'normal' miles or low miles then GM's Warranty is about the same as the others. If you drive high miles then the 100K mi limit is worthwhile. Good Marketing by GM.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    Kd, The Slade EXT is the dictator.

    Rocky


    Yep, for the 9 people who know about it and the 2 who can afford it. But for Joe and Debbi 20-Something who need a truck for their new framing business the 5.7L is their new best friend.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    Okay, good review...... That's best one I've seen on this site and I mean that with all honesty. ;)

    My only bone to pick with the Tundra's interior is the drivers side of the dash stack looks okay but the passenger side almost looks like it belongs in some other truck !!!! It just doesn't flow with the rest of the truck. The other thing I dislike on the Tundra, is the double-cab's rear roof angle. It just looks very odd to me. :surprise: I'm sure I will like the CrewMax better.

    Outside of those 2 things I mentioned the Tundra seems nice. I'll have to get my paws on one to get a good sound opinion. I have no doubt I'd like the powertrain and it's capability' s. The grill looks fairly good and isn't super attractive nor' ugly. :) I am very attracted to the interiors and exteriors of the GM trucks of course. I've always thought the current F-150 is to boxy. I'm also am unimpressed with the Ford's interior and laughed when some car mags called it audi-ish. :surprise: I was like audi, doesn't use hard, hollow, plastic in it's cars. I suppose they were referring to the design ;) The Dodge exterior and interior's are flat out atrocious :lemon:

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    Yep, for the 9 people who know about it and the 2 who can afford it. But for Joe and Debbi 20-Something who need a truck for their new framing business the 5.7L is their new best friend.

    Perhaps, but the Slade EXT is quite popular and will sell well. It wouldn't be the #1 stolen vehicle in the U.S. for no reason. :D

    Joe and Debbie, 20 something just starting a framing buiz I doubt is buying a new vehical and will likely buy a used domestic for that line of work because that's all their budget will allow them unless they inherited some dough. If they can afford a new truck, the new Silverado, will make dollars and sense because it's likely to cost them less money over the long haul because they paid less for it and they have the best factory powertrain warranty that will back them if something ever fails. The repair cost on the Tundra, could get expensive. Toyota, parts don't come cheap as you know. ;)

    Rocky
  • gearhead1gearhead1 Member Posts: 408
    Edmunds review which btw is the only car testing company that has the Tundra, ranked over the Silverado.

    So far, Edmunds is the only comparo I'm aware of. Are there others?

    thus the Denali isn't a luxury truck.

    Sorry, but any truck that starts with a MSRP of $40,000+ is a luxury truck.

    The 6.2 will make it to the Silverado, probably as a SS. Rumor's I've read are saying 500+ hp. It could also be a option called the VortecMax for other Silvy models with 400 hp. Look to see it available this fall for 08'. So far, so good for the 6.2. It's been in the Slade since last spring. Has the new 5.7 Tundra V8 been proven ????? What are it's reliability issues ????

    500hp sounds very impressive, but it also sounds like a domestic fan's wishful thinking. We'll have to wait and see. You'll have to keep a thousand lbs in the bed just to keep traction upon acceleration. Nope the 5.7 isn't proven, but the 4.7 and other legendary Toyota truck engines like the 22RE are proven. Toyota has earned the benefit of the doubt. GM has taken advantage of their customers for so long with inferior products especially their trucks (from the 80s-90s) from my direct experience that they'll have to prove themselves first.

    by a biased edmunds Toyota, kool-aid drinking staff

    Come on, Edmunds has positive reviews about GM products when they deserve it like the new Silverado and the new Saturn Aura for instance. Did you know that GM is Edmunds biggest advertiser? Do you hear me say Edmunds is biased in favor of these two products because of payola. Nope, I think they deserved the praise they recieved from Edmunds. The bottom line is no publication can afford to praise an unworthy product. Publications can't get away with that stuff and risk credibility. Customers are to savy and see through it. No credibility, no readers, no ad revenue, no job. It just doesn't pay in the long run except in the music industry where your selling to 16 year olds. They're stupid. Car buying adults are not.

    while several other credible sites picked the Silverado over the Tundra ?

    Links please. I don't doubt you, but when you say that links are always nice to back you up. Plus I can't recall any other hands on comparisons from reputable sites. Edmunds is about as reputable as it gets at least on the internet.

    If I was driving the 5.7 I'd be concerned with sludge issues and such since that is making news.

    If the 5.7 has sludge issues, I myself will call for Toyota to be driven from US shores.

    Just as a side note, I have relatives that own a Camry from the sludge period. They believe in changing a car's oil every 20K whether it needs it or not. That Camry still runs great at 140K with no sludge issues. They beat that thing on and off road and use it as a ranch vehicle. Amazing.


    You can't be serious.....One (1) good apples to oranges review and now GM, has to play catch up ?????

    It's not just the review. The powertrain differnces can't be denied. They are facts that can't be denied. They can be denied, but only by people in denial (not the river). I don't think they need to be repeated ad nauseum

    Ummmmmm you've lost all credibility from me.

    Okay, now that just hurt.

    BTW-The last generation was their first attempt at a full-size truck

    What? you think Toyota wouldn't spring for a tape measure for their engineers and they made the last Tundra, parked it next to a Ford or Chevy and said "Dang they're bigger than us, and they have bigger engines too. Toyota's only fault was making a truck that they thought did the job and it did do the job. Their only mistake was not taking into account the "Super Size" mentality of the american consumer and the fact that domestics would discount thousands of dollars off of MSRP off their monster trucks. They under estimated the american thirst for more than they'll ever use or need. Personally, I'm convinced that Japanese executives look at the new Tundra and almost burst out laughing saying "Well, if that's what they want give it to them". I just don't think they comprehend the need for that much power and size the segment demands. If I hear one more time about the needs of the american construction worker, I'll hurl. I have news for people, all those building supplies are delivered by the supply companies, not by 3/4, 0ne ton trucks. Most of the contractors, sub contractors I see at the sites are using any vehicle that gets the job done ie, Tacomas, older Toy trucks, vans, beater little trucks as well as a sprinkling of full size trucks that typically never have more than a couple of hundred lbs in the bed.

    You also need to remember gearhead1, the Euro's don't come over to the U.S. and try to americanize themselves in our culture and I think many americans respect that. I know I do.

    Come on, the hate was there for asian imports long before the Japanese put on the big belt buckle, cowboy hat and said Yee Haw! They supply thousands of american jobs, feed and put thousands of american kids through college, take billions of their profits that people say go to japan and pump those billions back into building factories on american soil supplying more american jobs. They are more American than most Americans. They can be as American as they want to be. I'll give them the spurs and chaps myself. I just hope they can continue to produce reliable products with american hands assembling them, because in this society where the work ethic is in short supply I sometimes doubt it.
  • gearhead1gearhead1 Member Posts: 408
    Perhaps, but the Slade EXT is quite popular and will sell well. It wouldn't be the #1 stolen vehicle in the U.S. for no reason.

    You know it's the number one stolen vehicle becuase somehow some way that god only knows, the hip hop/rap community has connected with it, and what they want, they get whether they can afford it or not. The Caddy branding has translated well into the urban areas. Nothing says excess and pointless luxury like the Escalade. If you want more than you need or can use, buy an Escalade and don't forget those 24" rims. "They spin! They spin! My how we love to watch them spin!!" -Chris Rock
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    One point I'll grant you is that Toyota should step up their warranty if not to compete with GM, then to compete with Hyundai which is the greater threat to both Toyota and Honda.

    Toyota is doing fine, with sales up 10% a year for like a decade. Toyota isn't going to "spike" the Kool-Aid! ;)

    Some companies HAVE TOO add warranty. Some don't.

    DrFill
  • gearhead1gearhead1 Member Posts: 408
    Some companies HAVE TOO add warranty. Some don't.

    Part of Toyota's quality/reliability history is due to their philosophy of "We're always on the verge of failure." It does no harm to offer a 10/100 powertrain if you never have to make good on it. It only helps sales. If they offered a 100k warranty on my truck, it wouldn't have cost them a dime, but would have made me feel better about the purchase. Hyundai has truely stepped up the competition, just take a look at the Azera. It competes with the Avalon at Camry prices and with a 10/100 warranty, and the dealers are oh so friendly and accomodating which is more than I can say about the attitude of my local Toyota dealer. Toyota IMO has a major problem with their dealerships. I would have to consider the Azera over a Camry. Toyota may be a little too smug in their position which may have shown in their growing pains over the last couple of years.
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    Toyota is not hard up for sales. They can barely keep up with demand as is.

    Adding warranty is something you do when you are losing market share, or trying to get the ball rolling, like Hyundai, GM and Ford.

    Just another incentive. Incentives are for struggling companies. BMW, Toyota, Mini, Porsche don't use many incentives. I don't expect that to change.

    DrFill
  • gearhead1gearhead1 Member Posts: 408
    Honda certainly wasn't struggling for sales, and was/is posting record pofit statements every qtr, and yet they stepped up their warranty from a 3/36 powertrain to 5/60. It's not something Honda had to do, but I think they realized it would cost them little to do so and improve perception.

    Not only is Hyundai on their heals and improving perception about their quality. We shouldn't forget about the Chinese entering the market. Toyota can either respond to the market to late or be smart and preemptive with a move that has little risk or cost.

    It's not like they're going to slaughter GM with this truck. The truck has just arrived and is finally competitive with the Silvy. They are not competitive with their warranty however. Everything should be class leading about the Tundra, not just the powertrain. If they're going to be smug in their position, that's fine I'm happy to shop Hyundai with a better warranty infinitely better attitude at the dealership.

    I've had a bullet proof little Toy truck (22re engine/MT 5 speed) for 15+ years. I love it, but I had no problem jumping over to Honda buying both a Ridgeline and a Fit. After my analysis Honda is just a better product. Not only is the quality at least equal, they offer their safety for all program. Every Honda on the lot comes standard with a full complement of air bags. Safety is not an option with Honda as it is with Toyota. Just try to find a Tacoma with side air bags. I tried and couldn't find one. Honda leads Toyota follows. Toyota is now changing their stance on safety, again responding to the market not leading it, too late for this customer. They pulled their new Corolla from release after seeing the new class leading Civic. Again, following not leading. Toyota always plays it safe. If they're taking the stance of we're not doing that for the customer because we don't have to. They've taken my business for granted. If I were buying a full size truck, Toyota would have me as a customer. It is clearly the superior product, but Toyota has grown away from me as a customer in many ways.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    They pulled their new Corolla from release after seeing the new class leading Civic. Again, following not leading

    This is false btw. Some journalist somewhere made a supposition 12 months ago without having all the information. The Corolla was delayed because it ran into a monster and had to take a back seat...it wasn't the Civic it was the Tundra!!!

    The Corolla is due to be released next month but that ran smack into the Tundra rollout. The good trooper ( and money printer ) Corolla takes a back seat. No biggie.

    A second reason why this journalist's view is wrong is that the new Corolla is almost exactly like the current one except for the interiors maybe and a tweak to the engine. This model is already out in Europe and China, where there is no Tundra rollout.

    A third reason ... the next Gen Corolla is done already. Plant personnel and dealer/owners have seen the final product as long ago as last July.

    I do agree that Toyota does often take baby steps and moves at its own glacial pace sometimes however it often takes the time on very important decisions to make certain that they're doing it right. Hybrids for example.

    Between the two companies, Honda and Toyota, it was Honda that rushed into the hybrid field and since have had to withdraw both the Insight and the HAH. It's IMA just isn't as capable as the HSD for midsized vehicles. They have quickly shifted to diesel for this segment ( Ody, MDX and Accord for 2009 ) but their hybrids are limited to the Civic and smaller. Toyota took more time on the TCH and it has staying power for a long long time.
  • dreasdaddreasdad Member Posts: 276
    2003 was the last redo on the Corolla so with a 5 year tuen cyccle 2008 would be the time for a new model. Last time I checked that was next year when the new Corolla comes out.

    Also what Honda comes standard with Knee airbags like the Avalon has had as standard since 2004 and the Camry now comes standard, who is leading Who?

    and you probably haven't noticed the ton of post here by people who's ridgeline's had water leaks on them for the 1st 3 months of production as well
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    Yes it was an '03 model but it actually came out in Feb of '02. I drove the first Matrix the day of the SuperBowl that year. It was due for renewal this month. But one year isn't going to affect it at all. Even in it's ancient form it's a killer in sales and a printing press for Toyota profits ;) if not for the sales people.
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    Good points, Spyder! ;)

    Toyota will never please everybody. I wanted them to reproduce the Supra, not give me an FJ Cruiser (a 6th SUV?).

    Have seen the Next Corolla, and it is hauntingly similar to the current car, so Toyota is not moving in fear of the Civic. They seem very happy with the theme of the current car, and the new one reflects that.

    BTW, The current Corolla is on a sales tear, and the release date of the Corolla is still more than a year off!

    Honda is definitely more aggressive, but many times they should look before they leap (Element, Insight, RDX, Acura).
    It's not all sunshine and rainbows at Honda.Strong engineering, not the best at market analysis, doh. :confuse:

    I totally dig Honda, and have an Integra myself, so I'm not one to throw stones, but Honda is "Mini Me", not 'Yota.

    Hondas 3/36 powertrain warranty was THE worst in the industry, archaic, and is just now getting up to average. No pats on the back thur. :confuse:

    Throwing stones at Toyota, like they don't have a clue, is.......uh.....not too bright at this point. I think they have the situation well in hand. ;)

    DrFill
  • gearhead1gearhead1 Member Posts: 408
    Also what Honda comes standard with Knee airbags like the Avalon has had as standard since 2004 and the Camry now comes standard, who is leading Who?

    What? no exterior pedestrian airbags? :) It's good that Toyota offers these on two models, but you have to give it to Honda for making the very important side/curtain air bags standard on all models. Safety shouldn't be an option you have to pay for. Toyota is moving in that direction. They will get there.

    and you probably haven't noticed the ton of post here by people who's ridgeline's had water leaks on them for the 1st 3 months of production as well

    There is also a ton of posts about the tranny problems with the new Camry. I'm not sure what your point is. Toyota has admitted and apologized for the quality issues they've had since 2004. They say they are back on track, and I believe them. Despite issues, the Ridgeline and Camry are superb vehicles made by class leading companies that understand the words quality and reliability.
  • gearhead1gearhead1 Member Posts: 408
    Toyota will never please everybody. I wanted them to reproduce the Supra, not give me an FJ Cruiser (a 6th SUV?).

    A new Supra would be a good move. If they would at least make a nod that they care even a little about driving excitment with a move like that, I think many would find that encouraging, but I also think the FJ Cruiser is one of the things that Toyota has done right. The FJ was a good move. Toyota has given up anything that might be even a little sporty. They have abandoned the Camry Coupe (Solara) while Honda is introducing an Accord Coupe in 08, that looks very Porshe like. I guess the one thing I find appealing about Honda is that they seem truely enthusiastic about their business ie. S2000, Civic Si Coupe, Civic Si sedan, Fit, upcoming Accord Coupe, and yes even the Element and Ridgeline. From driving performance to the Funky sublime, the Honda boys seem to be having fun. Toyota? not so much. Maybe now that they have this new class leading Tundra out of their system, they can relax and have some fun. They've been so focused on being taken seriously with this truck, they've become ....well, serious.

    Honda is definitely more aggressive, but many times they should look before they leap (Element, Insight, RDX, Acura).

    NO! Don't pan the Element. How many funky concept vehicles do you see make it to production unchanged? The Element is daring. It may be just making its sales target every year, but with flex production, the Element adds to Honda's record sales statements without being a liability. It is their Halo funky fun vehicle. Your right about the rest. they better do something about Acura and quick. They've stated a direction for Acura, and I think they've got it right. We'll see if it's realized.

    Throwing stones at Toyota, like they don't have a clue, is.......uh.....not too bright at this point. I think they have the situation well in hand.

    No doubt. I'm not throwing stones, I just want them to be the best they can be. I want them to transcend from just making quality/reliable appliance vehicles (not that that's a small feat) into injecting some excitement into what they already do so well. Ahh yes...they have Scion for that but still.
  • gearhead1gearhead1 Member Posts: 408
    Between the two companies, Honda and Toyota, it was Honda that rushed into the hybrid field and since have had to withdraw both the Insight and the HAH. It's IMA just isn't as capable as the HSD for midsized vehicles. They have quickly shifted to diesel for this segment ( Ody, MDX and Accord for 2009 ) but their hybrids are limited to the Civic and smaller. Toyota took more time on the TCH and it has staying power for a long long time.

    Hmmm ..diesel vs Hybrid and which way to go? Honda took the Accord into hybrid territory and then retreated feeling hybrid should only be used in smaller vehicles and their new Hydrogen vehicle. They are going diesel, and I think it's the most practical efficient way to go. Real world fuel economy just isn't panning out for the prius. It's a high technology that doesn't really justify itself when compared to a simpler 4 cylinder diesel that can deliver close to 50 mpg. Honda is doing some exciting things with their upcoming diesel. Americans will have to reeducate themselves about diesel because detroit has ruined the perception of it with their smoking belching hogs. The Fit will be getting a diesel and the Ridgeline a V6 diesel in 09.

    They haven't given up on hybrid technology, they have just refocused where it should be applied. It seems Honda will be leading in hybrid hydrogen cars as well as their home refueling station.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    I want them to transcend from just making quality/reliable appliance vehicles (not that that's a small feat) into injecting some excitement into what they already do so well

    Different routes to the same eventual goal. Who has been as focused in new technology as Toyota as of late.
    a) hybrids ... they literally are dragging the rest of the industry ( sometimes kicking and screaming ) into the 21st century.
    b) SmartKey, BT and backup camera's
    c) the Tundra is going to redefine the pickup market. It is likely a whole generation ahead of the others at this time.
  • framer_rubeframer_rube Member Posts: 28
    But can them new tundra ones haul? Got a 48 GMC workin that farm, and it hauls 8 cart tobacco train. Lookin for a new one, but it got to hold up workin that farm. Any word if this new tundra can work hard? Don't need no yuppie truck, just one that can work hard and last long. Is this tundra one of them ones? Anyone workin em yet? Good luck on this one now!
  • geo9geo9 Member Posts: 735
    You KNOW them "furrun" (for loss of a better word)
    trucks can't work ! Been proven again and again !
    These folks KNOW that......Thats why they are talkin'
    those teeny wanna be "cars" and their 99 speed auto.
    transmissions and standard body bags ! Cuz if they get
    hit by a REAL car or truck they are gonna need one
    and a undertaker !!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I am sure Franklin will agree ! :P
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    Silly post with no basis in fact one who until last week didn't even know that there was a new Tundra on the street. As of this week the three domestics had been eclipsed in....
    size
    engines
    transmissions
    hauling
    towing
    acceleration
    safety featires
    PRICING of all things

    Is there any subject that you are often correct in writing about? You do realize that Chevy, Ford and Dodge are in 4th 5th and 6th places respectively in these categories:
    Tundra
    Sierra
    Titan
    Silverado
    Ford
    Dodge

    Why would you want to buy one of the trucks at the bottom of the list, Geo9? Would you actually choose one of the least capable trucks by choice?
  • ktpklossktpkloss Member Posts: 28
    lol...well...look at al-qaida and taliban...whenever you see a tv footage of them on tv they drive toyota trucks, exclusively... driving in countries with no paved roads and knowing that very often, your life depends on the car you drive... who needs a better endorsement?
  • geo9geo9 Member Posts: 735
    Yup....I am gonna RUN down and buy a NEW problematic
    truck:
    http://detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070119/AUTO01/701190358/1148
  • framer_rubeframer_rube Member Posts: 28
    We are lookin for a full size truck for that farm. Do them tundra ones still have them pee-wee pumpkins and such? How is that wheelbase on them ones? Lookin for a full size one with haul. This truck will be workin that farm, not that highway now. Not interested in chrome doo-dads, just haul. Whay say? Good luck on this one now!
  • saddaddysaddaddy Member Posts: 566
    Nope -- 10.5" ring gear on these ones. Best in class. Haven't you seen the commercial on TV -- wait, I already know the answer to that.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    Largest punkin in the patch. 10.5" ring gear, 6 spd tranny 4.30 : 1 final gear ratio on all them 5.7's.

    Longest ( wheelbase 145" ) and tightest turning circle ( 44' ). Ya can actually turn up and down those rows of corn in the rear 40.

    It's also the widest ( with the Silvy @ 79.9" ) and has the most room inside.
  • gearhead1gearhead1 Member Posts: 408
    Yup....I am gonna RUN down and buy a NEW problematic
    truck:


    You've really got no room to talk. After more than twenty years of poor quality issues, recalls and problems from the big three, Toyota has not even begun to compete with the big three in the recall arena. The big three are the kings of poor quality and always will be.

    Read the article below. The difference between Toytoa and the big 3 is that Toyota will fix these issues and will maintain the consistent quality they are known for. The big 3 have a spotty quality record at best, and it's very difficult for them to maintain consistency.

    Toyota: Striving for Perfection

    ...The problems got so bad that, in July, Toyota CEO Katsuaki Watanabe felt obliged to bow deeply in apology.

    Has any of the big three apologized for how they've stuck it to their customers? Companies are not perfect. When they fess up admit there is a problem and vow to fix it, customers are understanding.

    Toyota chieftains say the company is making progress. In December, Executive Vice-President Masatami Takimoto said that when it comes to recalls, "the worst is now over." And Watanabe, while again apologizing for recent faults in vehicles, said Toyota is "right on track in ensuring good quality."

    Read and educate yourself for once Geo. Toyota has apologized for these problems and says they are back on track, and I believe them. If any company has earned the benefit of the the doubt, Toyota has with their quality history.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    You KNOW them "furrun" (for loss of a better word)
    trucks can't work ! Been proven again and again !
    These folks KNOW that......Thats why they are talkin'
    those teeny wanna be "cars" and their 99 speed auto.
    transmissions and standard body bags ! Cuz if they get
    hit by a REAL car or truck they are gonna need one
    and a undertaker !!!!!!!!!!!!!


    I am sure Franklin will agree !

    Yet another award-worthy post with lots of background and supporting information for the claims made. Bravo!
  • geo9geo9 Member Posts: 735
    Remember were talkin' RECALLS TODAY, NOW...........
    Not in the PAST ! And toyota is the KING !!!!!!!!!!

    Nah......its just a glitch ! :sick:
  • ktpklossktpkloss Member Posts: 28
    GM/Ford will have recalls in the FUTURE, isn't that even more scary than toyota's recall NOW? at least we know what's wrong with it... i'm sorry to say but chances are you going to be the one "discovering" the yet unknown, potentialy fatal defect....i'd switch to foreign brand now, till there's still time.
  • gearhead1gearhead1 Member Posts: 408
    Remember were talkin' RECALLS TODAY, NOW...........
    Not in the PAST ! And toyota is the KING !!!!!!!!!!


    Ummmm....no, We're not talking about recalls today. since when do you get to define the discussion. When talking about recalls, you need to take the whole history of the maunfacturer into account, and Toyota/Honda are the quality/reliability kings. You said it, it's just a glitch. That's the first thing you've been right about so far. 0ne correct statement out of a thousand isn't bad.

    These recalls at best could be described as an anomaly in an otherwise superb munufacturing system. GM partnered with Toyota in Fremont Ca. precisely to learn how to make quality cars from Toyota. I might add that the Toyota's Tranny glitches were the result of an American supplier. The replacement trannies are from Japan. How embarrasing for the US. Toyota trusts us to deliver one qualtiy part and we can't even get that right. I'm sure that's a mistake they won't repeat twice.
  • framer_rubeframer_rube Member Posts: 28
    How is that one holdin up at that corn farm now? How much haul has it done? Lookin for folks who is workin em hard now. I need one that is long lastin and hard workin. That factory has told them tales on em before, not lookin to get tricked on this one now. I need to hear from folks who has worked em, not read bout em. Has you worked that one in that corn farm? Can you tell me more about how they worked hard? Good luck on this one now!
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    Again you are out of date. I guess you didn't see the trends posted last month on recalls by the top 4 here in the US. Here is a hint: for 2006 the detroiter each had more recalls here than Toyota did.

    Do you ever post anything accurate? Do you ever read (?) or listen to the news?
  • KCRamKCRam Member Posts: 3,516
    AutoObserver.com

    Well-known automotive writer Michelle Krebs is the senior editor and starts the new site with an article regarding the new Tundra, "Truck Wars: Toyota Challenges Detroit Loyalty"

    Be sure to give it a read!

    kcram - Pickups Host
  • geo9geo9 Member Posts: 735
    Yup...........
    toyota LEADING the pack for 07.... 500,000 + truck and SUV
    models RECALLED already and its only Jan. !

    How many from GM, Ford, or Mopar THIS YEAR ????????

    The pacific rim folks are gettin' their panties in a
    bunch because so far THIS YEAR toyota is the recall KING!

    Are the reports true that honda is gonna discontinue the
    SLOW selling Pantyline......err....ridgeline ?
    Have they worked out their strut failure, water leak,
    or squeeky dashboard issues yet?
    I wonder how the Edmunds long term tester pantyline is
    holding up? I wonder how many MORE dealer repair visits
    they have had lately ? Gonna have to check it out.....
  • KCRamKCRam Member Posts: 3,516
    This is not the place for corporate finger-pointing. Topic here is Tundra vs Silverado. Discuss those trucks, please.

    kcram - Pickups Host
  • beliasbelias Member Posts: 316
    Man, this forum is getting people all worked up!! It is interesting to me that people here are trying to determine what makes their favorite truck better than the next when less than 5% of the people that buy 1/2 ton trucks actually tow 80% or more of the truck's max towing weight. Say it with me people... REAL truck buyers get 3/4 ton and 1 ton trucks. 1/2 ton trucks have been relegated to families and small businesses. That is why you see things like rear-seat dvd entertainment systems and dual-zone climate controls. What guy out at a construction site is going to buy a 1/2 ton truck with those things? They're going to get a stripped down truck with a full-size bed or crew cab (or both). Any of the big truck manufacturers are fantastically capable for families/small businesses. It will be things like interior quality, features, options, ride quality, durability, resale, and safety that will determine whether sales of the 1/2 ton truck market start pointing in Toyota's direction.
    However, given trends over the last 30 years, I think it is safe to say that Toyota's sales are continually rising while the Big 3's are continually shrinking. People like geo9 can make all the arguments they want against this trend, but it doesn't change these facts. GM, Ford, Dodge... they are all cutting workers and closing plants and restructuring to become leaner, smaller, and more efficient at their business. Toyota, Nissan and Honda are expanding in the U.S. The argument about Asian vs. NA vehicles is almost negligent anyway. If you want to support Americans, buy from Toyota, Nissan and Honda! Most of their plants, parts, and employees are right here! Look at GM/Ford/Dodge... most of their vehicles are assembled here, but are made in Canada and Mexico (and parts also come from Asia). So, the whole economic/loyalty rules have changed. All you do when you buy a vehicle from any manufacturer is support the stockholders behind them; the workforce is determined by various production/cost factors. I'm willing to bet that a lot of investing American's hold some amount of Toyota stock in their portfolio.
    If the Big 3 really want to stop loosing market share to their rivals, they need to first get back to their roots of being loyal to their own people. Bring manufacturing back home. Improve products by making better interiors and design and stop trying to rely on marketing to state your position... do the job first and then make your claims. I see GM as catching on to this already... Ford and Dodge are still struggling with this concept of do first, talk later.
    In any case, I think the Tundra is an exceptional truck. It probably won't meet its numbers because its work truck is too expensive. But I can see it taking sales from Ford, GM and Nissan. Arguing about a couple of hundred pounds in towing or 50 lbs in payload is not the criteria most 1/2 ton buyers are going to judge their vehicles by. Value has many more dimensions than just towing/hauling. Toyota has a reputation for great resale value and reliability. Bottom line is, like it or not, the Big 3 have few segments, if any, left for them to dominate. Once competitors start producing real work trucks (3/4 ton and 1 ton), their most profitable market segments will be threatened and overall profits will be reduced unless they are successful at doing more for less than their competitors. That takes years of hard, disciplined, and focused work from every level of employee in the workforce and management teams. Hopefully they will get there!
This discussion has been closed.