I own a 2001 TL ( purchased Feb 2001 ) with 13000 miles on it and have been using it primarily as my weekend car. So far I have not experienced any transmission problems. When I drive the TL, 90% of the time, my wife and 2 daughters are with me. I am very concern about transmission failure happening while cruising at freeway speeds. Decelerating at a high rate of speed without warning to me and to the vehicle behind me is a SERIOUS SAFETY ISSUE !!!!There has to be a way to force Honda/Acura and the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration to take action . GOD FORBID that a death or serious injury occurs before action is taken !
Honda should learn from the Ford Explorer/Firestone Tire controversy . They should also take lessons from Toyota in their handling of the engine sludge problem. It is up to Honda to maintain their reputation as builders of solid , high quality and safe vehicles. If Honda fails to act now , they have lost me as a faithful customer as well as potentially a million other owners with defective transmissions.
Honda , you cannot afford to wait and do nothing . The longer it takes for you to respond , the more damage you do to your good name. When you lose a customer , you don't just lose one individual. You lose that customer and probably his family , his friends and anyone who will listen to their horror stories.
Here is an excerpt from my lemon law/breach of warranty case reports relating to transmissions. This is my opinion, as entered in court proceedings:
I confirmed through comparison of the part number used in the transmission replacement that, in fact, a “new” transmission was not used in the replacement operation, even though the vehicle had only xx miles at the initial failure. A “remanufactured” transmission was used and several points come to light on this issue: - A remanufactured transmission uses a transmission housing from unknown origin, application of vehicle and mileage on the “donor” vehicle. - A remanufactured transmission’s internal components are usually only replaced if they are “out of specs” with a certain requirements - obviously not the same wear and tolerance specifications as a new transmission. - A vehicle with a remanufactured transmission, especially a newer vehicle such as this, bears the burden of “not being in original condition” and subsequently assumes a loss in value of at least 40% - considering there are no other contributing factors as is not the case on this vehicle. An educated consumer or used car manager, upon having the ability to compare this vehicle to one that is similar but is equipped with the original transmission, would choose the original vehicle. Even if the mileage on the vehicle with the original transmission was more than on the remanufactured unit, a buyer can be certain the original transmission is built to tighter tolerances and constructed by the vehicle’s manufacturer – not an “aftermarket” transmission-rebuilding factory.
This link was posted on another board, it provides an enormous amount of information on the extent of the Acura transmission problem. A lot of owners are unhappy.
No. Issue is with TL's from 2000 onwards. 1997 TL was previous generation TL that was totally redesigned for 1999. Honda has taken note of this issue and extended warranty on the affected 2000/2001 TL's.
Sorry, I can't say I know enough about the '97 car to recommend it. Currently a '93 Accord owner looking to upgrade to either a '99-2000 TL or a newer Accord. But if you are in the market for a '97 TL, I would recommend you take a look at the newer generation TL (1999 onwards) and see if it fits in your budget. If not the '99 TL, then a '99 Accord EX V6 would be more comparable price-wise. It'll be cheaper to maintain than the Acura and easier to resell and you'll still get most (if not all) of the features of the '97 TL.
that's about what several of the posters have reported, they are at speed, push down a little further, and all of a sudden it's a-whining and a-screaming and they are down to second gear with a truck in their trunk. no lights, no warnings, no nothing. out of the blue they have a one-speed tranny and a bit of a challenge at highway speeds.
if you've got a potentially-affected Acura, I would suggest don't you be playing "fighter pilot" in traffic until this issue is resolved.
I feel this problem is a tad over blown. I have been unable to find any TL drivers I know who have had any trouble with their transmissions. Also, Consumer Reports gives the TL their highest rating for the reliability of the transmissions. As they consider a 2% problem rate as a benchmark for their highest rating one can understand the high rating given to the TL.
specifically, it takes 2-3 months after their annual subscriber surveys in or around january for them to have definitive data to generate red circles (tm, pat, all rights reserved Consumers Union, etc.) based on reader experiences.
if they have one or two cars in long-term test and they fail, they very quickly get the info out on their web site to those extra-subscribers, and into the magazine and the TV/radio news department affiliates as quickly as they can.
if you're looking for a creeping stealth-type issue that gradually evolves as parts get to Magic Mile 53,427 or whatever and then explode in a shower of sparks... if it doesn't show up in a public forum or in the news, it will take a while until the subscriber base experiences it. some cars that don't sell well are are thus only one or two cars among the readers, like the Flamebait One-Lungee, are never going to get enough mentions to get rated with circles.
I recently checked JD Power's web site and they give the TL their highest rating for long term reliability. I don't understand how both Consumer Reports and JD Power give their highest rating for reliability to a car with all these reported transmission problems....something's wrong somewhere!!
My 02 TL-p just had it's tranny replaced this week, 11 months old, 19K miles. The wife's car, she does not drive aggresively.
When I initially read about this problem on the net, it was already too late, we had the car. But I'm thinking..... it must only happen to those guys who drive their cars really hard, but no, it happened to me too.
This is a prob that Honda/Acura realizes, but after reading numerous posts, and talking to the service mgr at the dealer, it appears that Honda is trying very hard to downplay it. Although they've admitted the prob, they are not releasing any specific info as to why it's happening, or even if the replacement has had the issue addressed. For all I know, I may be back at the dealer for another tranny in the next 11 months, at 38K miles.
Since I do not know for sure that problems will reoccur, I am hoping that Honda holds their rep in such high regard, that the issue is resolved. Talk about blind faith.
After I got my 02 TL-p back from the dealer i read about other owners experiencing warping of the front brake rotors. And I have to say that I experienced that about 3 weeks ago while braking at a stoplight. But I tried to duplicate the problem but was unsuccessful, so I chalked it up to a fluke thing.
But after reading more posts about this problem, I asked my wife if she ever felt anything like that, and the answer was yes. And it's getting worse.
So here I go back to the dealer tomorrow after getting the car back only this Wednesday.
But I'm going to try to keep my blind faith alive. The service mgr seems sincere, and service is above average.
I don't know of a car in the US, produced since asbestos was taken out of brake pads, that doesn't produce some rotor warpage. The cure is aftermarket rotors and pads, unfortunately. Mosts manufacturers are using rotors that are too thin in composition and warp because the newer pads pass on more heat.
My family's previous cars were a 95 Mazda 626 and 96 Nissan Altima. I drove the Altima 160K miles without ever warping the rotors, and the Mazda needed the rotors turned only once, at 60K miles.
Then there was an 88 RX7, once at 90K miles.
I cannot dispute your claims, but I also cannot believe that rotor warpage is "common". Too many consumers would be up in arms against the manufacturers.
And although I can believe that rotors now warp more easily due to higher heat from asbestos-free pads, this should not be an issue that occurs to Acuras with low mileage, in the teens, 20's or 30K's.
I guess I had high expectations from my Acura and I'm now disappointed that my Altima's initial quality was substantially higher.
until 1997, and wasn't fully phased in until 1999, so there's no reason you would have had any experience with rotor warpage since you were using the old design (pre EPA interference) pads.
Trust me - I see lemon law claims every day as part of my job - consumers ARE up in arms over brake rotor warpage and also low brake pad life.
Nice comeback Zeus. What's your background? It's refreshing to "talk" to someone who backs up their statements with sound facts (either that or the B.S. is really convincing).
Sounds like you work in the industry, so let me ask you, in your opinion, are the manufacturers replacing the warped rotors under warranty? I'm planning to ask Acura to change mine on my 02 TL with 20K miles. I'd like to know my chances.
I'm a former service manager/service advisor who worked through the changeover to these short life pads and weak rotors.
I also worked as a finance manager and used car appraiser and have been in the car business for 9 years, after 10 years as a military cop. I now investigate dealer fraud, lemon law and breach of warranty cases, so I'm not "in the business" any longer.
henri - you accuse me of talking BS, but then ask my opinion. Why? To prove I'm not "elitist" or a jerk, I'll answer your question to the best of my ability. At 20K miles, you're out of the 12/12 "adjustment period", so it probably will not be covered unless you ask nicely. By the way you've talked to me, I'd say you should count to 10 before talking to your service advisor.
"Nice comeback Zeus. What's your background? It's refreshing to "talk" to someone who backs up their statements with sound facts (either that or the B.S. is really convincing)."
This meant that I was impressed with your knowledge, and the substance of your response. The thing is, that there's so many BS'ers on the net that you could have easily been throwing some around and fooling me, I was trying to be a little funny,.... guess I failed. Like I said your responses WERE convincing. I wasn't accusing you of BS, I really wasn't.
I wasn't try to be facetious or anything like that. A little guarded with my praise? Most certainly. And the "talk" was in reference to online talk, since we're not actually talking.
My last paragraph truly was requesting your opinion, sincerely.
Hey, I'm really sorry you took offense, that was not my intention, not even in the slightest.
And I only asked your background because I WANTED to believe what you were posting, and if you had responded that you were a 20 year old, who's favorite movie was "Fast and Furious", I would take your advice, if offered, with a grain of salt.
Again, and I can't stress this enough, I'm sorry for the miscommunication. I feel like a piece of crap for insulting you; it was NOT my intent.
Thanks for the info though, and I was nice to the Acura service manager, and he resurfaced the rotors yesterday under warranty.
Hi, got my tranny changed a short while back, it lasted less than 20000 miles, but I can't find any data that may indicate that the reman'ed transmission they put in is good.
Did Honda fix the problem in the reman'ed that caused my first tranny to go?
The guy at the dealer wasn't much help, and I'm mulling over the decision whether to call Acura. I've browsed the Acura-tl.com and Acura-cl.com, but there hasn't been any specific data. And most responses I've seen, seem to indicate that the manufacturer is not being very helpful.
Does anyone know anything? I'd like to be able to keep my TL without having to worry everyday about whther the tranny will go south again.
HONDA/ACURA will extend the trans warranty on 2000-2002TL/CL with 5 speed automatics trans & some other models as well as some 2003models. The updated warranty will go for 7years or 100000 miles.
For the record, I have 2 friends driving TL-S. One does not seem to have a problem but the other has already changed the transmission at 25K miles and had the rotors resurfaced because of vibrations. The transmission was not new but a remanufactured one and dealer tells my friend that all TL have the same "characteristic" with the brake, in other words is "normal" in all TL's.
in my 01 TL started slipping last week. Even though I had read about the problems every1 else was having I never thought mine would do it. It slips going from 2nd to 3rd now and its doing it on the regular. I will make an appointment with my local dealer this week. I know they are going to say they can't duplicate the problem so I'm going to make the tech ride with me when I drop it off. The car has 44,000 miles on it.
Sorry to hear about your tranny. When I got mine done a few weeks ago at 20K on my 2002, they also changed the throttle body because it was stiff, and I had them resurface the rotors because of vibration from warpage.
Good luck, I got mine back in 6 days, hope they don't keep yours 3 weeks like I've read on other postings.
I'm in the market of buying either an TL, G35, ES300, Maxima or an 525. Currently I have TL listed as my first choice, primarily due to the overall value compared to other vehicles, but the frequency of transmission problem is making me rethink about the TL. Has anyone had this kind of problem with a 2003?
My 2 vehicles are Infiniti and an Lexus, and I have never had any sort major problem. Also, any purchased price around DFW area?
I dropped off my car on Thursday morning and I haven't heard a peep from the dealership. I was hoping they would give an Acura RSX to drive but they rented me a Ford Taurus. I don't believe I'm about to post this but I like the Taurus a lot. The drivers seat is big and comfortable and it doesn't have that curve in it that makes my back hurt after long driving. I'm in the insurance business so I spend lots of time behind the wheel. I've made up my mind that I will probably sell this car or trade it once it is returned but I will not be buying a Taurus though. I might check out the new Accord, or if I can I may try to hold out for the 04 TL.
What troubles me is the way Honda/Acura is playing loose with this issue. They've extended the warranty on the transmission to 7ys/100K miles, but they are not willing to discuss the specific issue that causes their transmissions to fail. They've stated that the transmission has been redesigned to address the problem, but again no specifics. Some believe that the components have simply been beefed up to prolong the transmission's life and the flaw still exists, even on the 03's.
I am currently thinking of purchasing a Maxima SE/GLE, lots of power and they're selling about $300 below invoivce in Florida. On the negative side is the high fuel consumption and the lack of prestige the Nissan brand has.
In addition to your options, I'd like to have the Lexus IS300 (solid buy, all around performer), then 325 (so visually pleasing!), G35 (value and power galore) in that order; these are on the small side. If more room is in order, ES300 then I35, flip this choice if power is preferred over luxury.
Also troubling is that Honda threw in ACura TL's, CL's, Honda Preludes, Oddyseys, and V6 Accords in their total tranny counts, about one million in all, so that the 16,000 failures will seem insignificant, 1.6%.
I fear that if one would look at CL/TL's only, the failure rate would be higher.
Also, 1.6% failures only reflect as of Aug/Sept 2002.... yet transmissions are continuing to fail everyday. In some markets there's a back order of 2-4 weeks for the TL/CL transmissions, that failure rate will actually end up MUCH MUCH higher.
The TL has surpassed all my expectations in every other way. It's fast, comfortable, has a little prestige and is good on gas.
To enjoy this car, all one requires is a substantial amount of faith. The nay-sayers are still a little in the dark, and Honda is not being totally open; their past reutation has been excellent though.
Also, if you change your cars before the warranty runs out, this is THE buy for you. If you're like me, and is looking for 100K plus miles, look elsewhere other than the TL (unless you have that faith of course).
(I was a little bored tonight....sorry about the multiple postings)
I appreciate your information. With the frequency of the transmission problem I would think that the TL would depreciate little more than what it use to, but the resale value of the TL has been one of the best, right behind BMW. I also read some posts on the ES300 board in regards to ES300 transmission issues. Good luck in your search for your next vehicle.
I just received my 2003 Consumer Reports buyers guide for 2003. They continue to give the 99-2003 TLs' their highest rating for reliability including the transmission. Their research seems to back Honda's claim of a 1.6%failure rate as CR gives their highest rating to a 2% or less failure rate.
was fixed and I got car back on Tuesday. I missed the power it has, have to be careful not to speed too much. The car drives as if it is new again, much smoother transmission shifts. I will keep you posted.
and it is serious when it occurs, but I believe a 2% failure rate is accurate, and much, much, lower than other manufacturer's transmission failure rates.
I'm looking into buying a new car in the beginning of the year and I've had an Acura for many years (Integra LS). So far, the TL Type-S is the front runner of my choice. The other choices are 350Z, G35 coupe, Maxima SE, and G35 sedan. So, is the transmission problem fixed in the new TL's? I don't want to pay 30K+ for a car and have to keep thinking about the tranny crapping out on me. Please let me know... anyone?
Comments
unfortunately, it has to fail out on the road, which could be as dangerous as a set of => KILLER TIRES! <= tm.
Honda should learn from the Ford Explorer/Firestone Tire controversy . They should also take lessons from Toyota in their handling of the engine sludge problem. It is up to Honda to maintain their reputation as builders of solid , high quality and safe vehicles. If Honda fails to act now , they have lost me as a faithful customer as well as potentially a million other owners with defective transmissions.
Honda , you cannot afford to wait and do nothing . The longer it takes for you to respond , the more damage you do to your good name. When you lose a customer , you don't just lose one individual. You lose that customer and probably his family , his friends and anyone who will listen to their horror stories.
Who wants to spend $30,000 on a new car, then get a rebuilt tranny put in it?
http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20020914/1036070.asp
I confirmed through comparison of the part number used in the transmission replacement that, in fact, a “new” transmission was not used in the replacement operation, even though the vehicle had only xx miles at the initial failure. A “remanufactured” transmission was used and several points come to light on this issue:
- A remanufactured transmission uses a transmission housing from unknown origin, application of vehicle and mileage on the “donor” vehicle.
- A remanufactured transmission’s internal components are usually only replaced if they are “out of specs” with a certain requirements - obviously not the same wear and tolerance specifications as a new transmission.
- A vehicle with a remanufactured transmission, especially a newer vehicle such as this, bears the burden of “not being in original condition” and subsequently assumes a loss in value of at least 40% - considering there are no other contributing factors as is not the case on this vehicle.
An educated consumer or used car manager, upon having the ability to compare this vehicle to one that is similar but is equipped with the original transmission, would choose the original vehicle. Even if the mileage on the vehicle with the original transmission was more than on the remanufactured unit, a buyer can be certain the original transmission is built to tighter tolerances and constructed by the vehicle’s manufacturer – not an “aftermarket” transmission-rebuilding factory.
http://www.acura-cl.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=3ed9e22475c1ce085c892d221d449c29&forumid=126
Thanks.
if you've got a potentially-affected Acura, I would suggest don't you be playing "fighter pilot" in traffic until this issue is resolved.
if they have one or two cars in long-term test and they fail, they very quickly get the info out on their web site to those extra-subscribers, and into the magazine and the TV/radio news department affiliates as quickly as they can.
if you're looking for a creeping stealth-type issue that gradually evolves as parts get to Magic Mile 53,427 or whatever and then explode in a shower of sparks... if it doesn't show up in a public forum or in the news, it will take a while until the subscriber base experiences it. some cars that don't sell well are are thus only one or two cars among the readers, like the Flamebait One-Lungee, are never going to get enough mentions to get rated with circles.
When I initially read about this problem on the net, it was already too late, we had the car. But I'm thinking..... it must only happen to those guys who drive their cars really hard, but no, it happened to me too.
This is a prob that Honda/Acura realizes, but after reading numerous posts, and talking to the service mgr at the dealer, it appears that Honda is trying very hard to downplay it. Although they've admitted the prob, they are not releasing any specific info as to why it's happening, or even if the replacement has had the issue addressed. For all I know, I may be back at the dealer for another tranny in the next 11 months, at 38K miles.
Since I do not know for sure that problems will reoccur, I am hoping that Honda holds their rep in such high regard, that the issue is resolved. Talk about blind faith.
I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
But after reading more posts about this problem, I asked my wife if she ever felt anything like that, and the answer was yes. And it's getting worse.
So here I go back to the dealer tomorrow after getting the car back only this Wednesday.
But I'm going to try to keep my blind faith alive. The service mgr seems sincere, and service is above average.
My fingers will still be crossed though.
Then there was an 88 RX7, once at 90K miles.
I cannot dispute your claims, but I also cannot believe that rotor warpage is "common". Too many consumers would be up in arms against the manufacturers.
And although I can believe that rotors now warp more easily due to higher heat from asbestos-free pads, this should not be an issue that occurs to Acuras with low mileage, in the teens, 20's or 30K's.
I guess I had high expectations from my Acura and I'm now disappointed that my Altima's initial quality was substantially higher.
Trust me - I see lemon law claims every day as part of my job - consumers ARE up in arms over brake rotor warpage and also low brake pad life.
Sounds like you work in the industry, so let me ask you, in your opinion, are the manufacturers replacing the warped rotors under warranty? I'm planning to ask Acura to change mine on my 02 TL with 20K miles. I'd like to know my chances.
I also worked as a finance manager and used car appraiser and have been in the car business for 9 years, after 10 years as a military cop. I now investigate dealer fraud, lemon law and breach of warranty cases, so I'm not "in the business" any longer.
henri - you accuse me of talking BS, but then ask my opinion. Why? To prove I'm not "elitist" or a jerk, I'll answer your question to the best of my ability. At 20K miles, you're out of the 12/12 "adjustment period", so it probably will not be covered unless you ask nicely. By the way you've talked to me, I'd say you should count to 10 before talking to your service advisor.
Didn't mean to piss you off, or put you down.
"Nice comeback Zeus. What's your background? It's refreshing to "talk" to someone who backs up their statements with sound facts (either that or the B.S. is really convincing)."
This meant that I was impressed with your knowledge, and the substance of your response. The thing is, that there's so many BS'ers on the net that you could have easily been throwing some around and fooling me, I was trying to be a little funny,.... guess I failed. Like I said your responses WERE convincing. I wasn't accusing you of BS, I really wasn't.
I wasn't try to be facetious or anything like that. A little guarded with my praise? Most certainly. And the "talk" was in reference to online talk, since we're not actually talking.
My last paragraph truly was requesting your opinion, sincerely.
Hey, I'm really sorry you took offense, that was not my intention, not even in the slightest.
And I only asked your background because I WANTED to believe what you were posting, and if you had responded that you were a 20 year old, who's favorite movie was "Fast and Furious", I would take your advice, if offered, with a grain of salt.
Again, and I can't stress this enough, I'm sorry for the miscommunication. I feel like a piece of crap for insulting you; it was NOT my intent.
Thanks for the info though, and I was nice to the Acura service manager, and he resurfaced the rotors yesterday under warranty.
Glad to hear the dealer took good care of you.
Anything I can help you with, let me know.
Did Honda fix the problem in the reman'ed that caused my first tranny to go?
The guy at the dealer wasn't much help, and I'm mulling over the decision whether to call Acura. I've browsed the Acura-tl.com and Acura-cl.com, but there hasn't been any specific data. And most responses I've seen, seem to indicate that the manufacturer is not being very helpful.
Does anyone know anything? I'd like to be able to keep my TL without having to worry everyday about whther the tranny will go south again.
Good luck, I got mine back in 6 days, hope they don't keep yours 3 weeks like I've read on other postings.
My 2 vehicles are Infiniti and an Lexus, and I have never had any sort major problem.
Also, any purchased price around DFW area?
Thanks.
I might check out the new Accord, or if I can I may try to hold out for the 04 TL.
Here's a link I found interesting.
http://www.acura-tl.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=48452
I am currently thinking of purchasing a Maxima SE/GLE, lots of power and they're selling about $300 below invoivce in Florida. On the negative side is the high fuel consumption and the lack of prestige the Nissan brand has.
In addition to your options, I'd like to have the Lexus IS300 (solid buy, all around performer), then 325 (so visually pleasing!), G35 (value and power galore) in that order; these are on the small side. If more room is in order, ES300 then I35, flip this choice if power is preferred over luxury.
My humble opinion.
I fear that if one would look at CL/TL's only, the failure rate would be higher.
Also, 1.6% failures only reflect as of Aug/Sept 2002.... yet transmissions are continuing to fail everyday. In some markets there's a back order of 2-4 weeks for the TL/CL transmissions, that failure rate will actually end up MUCH MUCH higher.
To enjoy this car, all one requires is a substantial amount of faith. The nay-sayers are still a little in the dark, and Honda is not being totally open; their past reutation has been excellent though.
Also, if you change your cars before the warranty runs out, this is THE buy for you. If you're like me, and is looking for 100K plus miles, look elsewhere other than the TL (unless you have that faith of course).
(I was a little bored tonight....sorry about the multiple postings)
I also read some posts on the ES300 board in regards to ES300 transmission issues.
Good luck in your search for your next vehicle.
So, is the transmission problem fixed in the new TL's? I don't want to pay 30K+ for a car and have to keep thinking about the tranny crapping out on me. Please let me know... anyone?