Subaru Crew Problems & Solutions

sibbald

On both Outbacks when new, I had a pull to the right. An alignment didn't help and I was told that it was just the cant of the road. Then someone suggested swapping the front tires. This has corrected the problem twice for me and might be worth a try if an alignment doesn't solve your problem.
Tom

manamal

I am not sure if I have a problem or not. It seems that the Auto climate control blows hot air when set to any temperature other than maximum cooling, even when the outside temps are in the 50's.

Is this a feature or bug?

c_hunter

The lowest temperature setting is unheated air (or max cool when AC is on). The next setting, even though it's only 1 degree higher, is heated air. So you will notice a very definite "step" in temperature when it's cold weather.

On my Outback, 65F blows cold ambient air, while 66 blows air intended to heat the cabin to 66F. In many cases, the 66F setting is too warm (like when I am wearing ski gear). I really wish they dropped the scale down further. 66F is just too warm to be the lowest setting.

On the Outback, I can play various games to mix temps (it's dual zone) for comfort. I imagine you can find similar workarounds on the Forester.

Craig

xwesx

FWIW....

Well, it wouldn't surprise me if Subaru and any dealer would deny up and down that the electrical system is less than reliable in these cars, but my experience is nothing if not similar to yours. There are very few illuminated switches that actually illuminate in my '96 OBW anymore. But, they all still work, so if I can find them, I can use them!

I would recommend that you not bother replacing the switches unless they just don't work. If they are Subaru switches, I doubt the illumination would be any more reliable than the switches already in there. Then again, I've lived with mine long enough to be tolerant of them now. It is uncanny how all the lights start to quit only days after buying it though, huh?! I think I made it about a week before my first MIL illumination - at least I know THAT light still works! LOL

kens

I would go to the dealership and have them address your concerns about the right drift. You are entitled to one full alignment from the dealership under warranty if they verify your concerns. If they claim it can't be duplicated, ask to ride with a mechanic to show them what you see. It's not unheard of for a brand new vehicle to have alignment settings off.

As for the steering wheel, it should be pretty straightforward to correct. IIRC, the tech simply needs to straighten the wheel and then adjust the steering rack.

Not all roads are banked towards one side. Some are crowned so find a stretch where you can try both sides.

Lastly, as mentioned earlier, radial pull can also cause drift problems. The old-fashioned way to deal with radial pull is to keep rotating the tires until the pull is minimized. If the shop is well equipped, they can use a Hunter Road Force balancer to measure the radial pull per tire and then decide on an arrangement for net zero pull.

Ken

ebony5

Second that(#4929) slowly but surely the light switches on my '96 OBW are also going out-the latest are the ones for the defroster,heater,etc but as you said they still function. A while ago I noticed that the seat heating light lights up only on occasion or delayed. Though it displeases me I am resigned to living with it. I just hope it is not indicative of more serious electrical problems to come.

xwesx

I just hope it is not indicative of more serious electrical problems to come.

I agree wholeheartedly. I suppose I should quantify my previous statement (was it #4929?) by saying that the reliability issue lies mostly in the lighting. I have not suffered any "serious" electrical problems aside from the occasional sensor malfunction here and there. The door locks are giving up the ghost, but there are some adjustments that can be made to help extend the longevity of those. Overall, I am disappointed but not entirely turned off to the possibility of another Subaru purchase. It is hard to forget about how much fun I have driving it in the winter when I think I have had enough of the problems! And, like any vehicle, there are going to be maintenance costs.

ebony5

When I got in my car last night I realized I forgot to mention that the door locks were the first to go, they only work periodically.

rob_m

Also, don't forget about having to replace the HVAC indicator lights in the 96 - 99 series Legacy! LOL Rob M.

p0926

Having switch lights burn out and various other electrical problems starting to occur on a 10-year old Outback isn't all that surprising. However, I would consider the same problems on a 2001 Forester to be premature and the fact that they started immedately after buying it seems suspicious. I'm wondering if the previous owner ditched it due to a known electrical problem?

-Frank

xwesx

Hey, if they were JUST STARTING to go out, I wouldn't have a problem with it.

But, most of the lights that are no longer working have not worked for at least 5 years. In fact, the only things that DO light up any more are the instrument panel, seat heaters, and a couple lights on the radio. Better than nothing, I suppose! I wouldn't mind it so much if other makes had the same problem. I mean, my other two 35-year-old vehicles still have all original lighting in them with NO burnouts. Eh. I'm not going to waste any more energy on it - Subaru electrical has quality issues.

cptplt

I have a 98 Legacy which lost some lights too after only a year, the replacement bulbs are fine now 5 yrs later and I leave my headlights (and as a result all the HVAC etc lights) on all the time. I wonder if there was a problem with the bulbs they used for those model years?

ateixeira

Both of you should look into the Single Point Ground mods that have helped some people. I think someone even sells a kit for that now. It might help cure strange electrical issues like yours.

-juice

irish24

have an 00 outback w alignment issues. had it aligned in dec, 3K miles ago and it seemed worse. Last week I took it in to another subaru dealer and wanted an alignment. They couldn't do it bkz the rear adjustment bolts were frozen. Asked then if anyone else were having similar problems.

They got the parts in and did the alignment today. 288 dollars to do it as they had to cut the bolts out and replace them. The mechanic said they are having some problems w the 2000 outback. they replaced the cam bolts and bushings. The steering wheel also started vibrating so had the wheels balanced too and it seems to drive much better.They said they sprayed I think graphite on some parts before installation. Hopefully this will finally take care of the constant pull to the right.

larklane

Hello,
Does anyone know if an older subie radio
that has a cassette will fit the 2004 forester?
I do not use cd's in the car and prefer to
use a factory radio. A cassette/cd unit or
a cassette/weather/cd unit would be ok.
thank you,
James

stantont

Hey folks, the CEL in my '02 Legacy just came on on a long road trip; I first noticed it at just about 60,000 miles. I checked the fuel cap, no change. Does anyone know if the CEL is set to come on at major service intervals (30k, 60k, etc.), or if I should see the dealer about this? I bought the car used at 57k, so I don't have a history with it - we are just bonding, as it were ;-). The trip helped that process, BTW - 1000 miles in two days, mostly at 75-78mph, relaxed cruise, and 29 mpg. But the CEL was a worry for the last 400 miles.

Stanton

maverick1017

They will fit as far as the sizing goes. all subie radios are DIN sized. however I believe the rear connector have changed over the years. so if you are looking for a first gen forester factory radio it would have different connector male pins in the back than the female plug that's in your car. If you are good with wiring then I am sure you can figure out how to wire an old connector to the new one but that would require either cutting the existing connector or splissing into the wiring.

c_hunter

The connectors have not changed since 1998 at least, though some of the models have additional connectors for subs and/or external changers.

I would have no issues using a 2000-onward radio in a newer Subaru, thought it might look outdated!

Craig

hypov

I'm pretty sure radios of 1997 -> 2003, which uses the 14 pins plug will fit the '04s.
My OEM HU from the '98 OB is in my brother's '97 OB.
A '02 WRX 6 CD/Cassette/AMFM which was originally swapped into my '98 OB is in my '99 OBS now,
and as of today, a '03 WRX 6 CD/Cassette/AMFM looking for a new double DIN spot to call home.

-Dave

p0926

Does anyone know if the CEL is set to come on at major service intervals (30k, 60k, etc.

No such luck. If it's not the gas cap, odds are you have a bad CO2 sensor. Go ahead and take it to the dealer as it may still be under warranty. FYI: some auto parts stores (like AutoZone) will read the code for you for free.

-Frank

pavery99

I would be suspicious of it being in a flood or rebuilt after a wreck - check Carfax.

ebony5

I read in a posting here a while ago(#3170) that one can reset the cel by disconnecting the negative battery terminal for about 1/2 hour. If that does not work then I would either go directly to have it serviced or have the code read.

p0926

Disconneting the battery will work so long as it's a one-time CEL and not a presistent problem (in which case it will come right back on).

-Frank

subearu

and you can shorten the process by stepping on the brake after you disconnect the battery. that supposedly draws any remaining power out of the system.

your mpg may be lower as well after a reset as it optimizes to you.

-Brian

locke2c

Juice, many vendors make kits. I don't want to advertise for someone even indirectly, but there are grounding kits for most performance import cars these days.

I thought about one for my Evo, for $100 or so it's easier than building my own and I have significant "stuff" going on with my stereo wiring.

~Colin

xwesx

I did some research on the single point grounding modification as well, and I can certainly see the benefit to it for sensor / ECU purposes, but I do not see why it should have any effect on the longevity of the dash lighting. Considering that my car is not "performance" nor do I try to extract extra performance from it, I will probably not pursue the mod. With 181K on it now with no noticable problems that could be attributed to grounding, it most likely is not an issue.

It is simple enough to perform though! Thanks for pointing it out, and if anyone has reason to feel that the factory grounding could affect the dash lights, door locks, etc., please speak up.

xwesx

So, I finally picked one of these up. Technically, it has paid for itself after I use it twice to check the MIL readout, but, as I suspected, the codes are not worthy of pursuit. The nice thing is that every few days when the light comes on, I can shut it off by performing a readout. Peace of mind is worth a little, I suppose. The total cost of the unit was $147 (that includes shipping to AK) from Northern Tool for a Equus Innova 3100 OBD II Code Reader. It is not nearly as flexible as many of the more expensive models out there, but for my purposes it is perfect and AFFORDABLE! I was annoyed that I had to modify the battery compartment in order for the batteries to fit and the cover to attach, but it was a quick fix and it works well now.

My codes? P0502 and P0420 - Throttle Control Malfunction and Cat Converter Below Threshold. The CCBT code concerns me a little, but it was giving me the same problem this summer and I had no problem passing the I/M test, so it is not worth it (to me) to replace the converter at $450 as the dealer had suggested back then. The cause of this malfunction code is too small of a ratio between the % oxygen prior to the converter and the subsequent % oxygen after the converter. What are some possible reasons for this?

fibber2

Jason,

IIRC, the cat con uses a precious metal, like platinum as a catalyst to a reaction. It 'grabs' oxygen and free, unburnt hydrocarbons, and along with heat, promotes an 'afterburner' effect. The liberated byproduct is water (H2O), carbon dioxide & carbon monoxide (CO2 & CO), and various oxides of nitrogen (expressed as NOx). If everything is in balance, there should be few long chain hydrocarbons or free oxygen left at the end of the reaction chamber.

I guess if the catylist is either depleted (somehow burned away), poisoned (by leaded fuel), or passivated (excess hydrocarbon buildup), it will no longer have enough active surface area to do the job.

Steve

xwesx

the cat con uses a precious metal, like platinum as a catalyst to a reaction. It 'grabs' oxygen and free, unburnt hydrocarbons, and along with heat, promotes an 'afterburner' effect.

Correct. So, your assertion is that the converter is probably running inefficiently and there is more oxygen on the post-converter side of the exhaust system than ought be present? See, I wasn't sure if it was that or if there was, for some reason, not enough oxygen entering into the catalytic converter. Either way, the converter would not function efficiently, but the tailpipe numbers on my last I/M test did not vary significantly from the test that was performed two years prior. Maybe 2-3% or so, but not much. I will have to go back and compare the two printouts again to verify.

According to the Subaru dealer here in town, rarely if ever do they need to replace a cat converter on any of their cars (they sell/service Subaru, Honda, Toyota, and Hyundai), regardless of age. I would not expect a converter to fail within a normal car life-span, and 181K is certainly within that life. Maybe if I had 250-350K miles..... I guess that leaves the possibility of something having fouled it up. But what?

Thanks for the reply, Steve.

-Wes-

fibber2

Wes,

Sorry for using Jason. You are probably like my wife and go by your middle name?

Realize that I am only guessing on the O2 ratio failure. Just an assumption on my part.

The actual emissions test can tell both the output COx and NOx levels, something the onboard diagnostics cannot do. Gas analyzers are expensive and somewhat delicate toys. Our cars make do with a free oxygen sensor that is suppose to equate to tailpipe output by churning a bunch of other input data - striking a balance between the different types of emissions.

Oxygen and combustion temp used to be regulated (in part) thru the use of exhaust gas recirculation, but recent ('00 and up ??) Subi engines do not have that. Your '96 might, though. Air pumps are also out, but some systems use a breather tube on a one way valve that draws air into the exhaust manifold.

BTW, in my book, 9 years and 181k miles is pretty up there. An inefficient cat doesn't seem that unreasonable.

Steve

xwesx

Eh, not a problem. I am a dual-namer. I typically use -Wes- online; just a holdover from my college gaming days. My intent is to actually sign all my posts, but I constantly forget. For some reason, I tend to remember more frequently on the long ones.....

I'll read up some more on the system. If the cat is bad, I don't mind replacing it, but I would rather not replace it if a less expensive solution is to be had. It may turn out that I need to replace the cat and repair whatever caused it to go bad so I don't end up having to replace the new ones in another 50K. *shrugs*

I suppose a car's age/mileage is also a factor of region. When I drove my '69 C20 down to PA back in '99 with my then-to-be wife, it was the oldest vehicle on the road by 20 years once we hit about Minnesota, so there is a definite trend toward more frequent vehicle turnover as one goes east. Or maybe it is a trend in all populated areas and it is just easier to avoid those places in the plains/western states.

You can tell me my car is "pretty up there" in another 2 years when I have 220K on it. ;-D

-Wes-

dalelynn

Should the rear brakes typically wear out faster than the front brakes on the Subaru Forester? I have 30,000 miles on my geolander tires and they are now almost threadbare. The brakes are also VERY spongy. Dealer says the wear is not due to the car and that the back brakes being replaced before the front is normal. I have highway miles on my tires and brakes.

maverick1017

The front brakes typically wear faster than the rear ones. my 98 has got over 120K miles and it's still on the original set of brake pads for the rear. If you only got highway miles I wonder if the rear brakes weren't adjusted correctly and has been draging for a while, or maybe the parking break didn't fully release and cause the rear brake pads to maintain contact with the rotor or drum. 30K miles of highway shouldn't warrant a brake pad change unless the pad material is pure organic. Subaru uses semi-metalics, those shouln't wear out for at least 60K under normal use.

hondafriek

Rear discs are self adjusting, and the parking brake shoes technically should never need to be replaced as they are not used for braking.

Cheers Pat.

smoky66

A well-cared for 99 Forester with under 60K has started losing several quarts of oil between changes - there is a pump clicking noise when it is low. No signs of drip under the car. Anyone seen this problem? Seems a bit early for rings or valves.

Thanks
Smoky66

cmuniz

I had the rear disk brakes wear out faster on my 98 Isuzu Trooper and was told that it was not unusual. They needed replacement at about 30,000 miles on the vehicle, but it was mostly mountainous driving on curvy roads.They said that was also not unusual. My FXT only has 18,000 on it so no brake replacement, yet.

locke2c

several quarts is a lot. only 1-1.5 quarts between changes should be tolerated, and you're under the 5 year / 60k mile powertrain warranty-- go that route first!

inspect the coolant for obvious oil contamination. if you don't find any, consider getting it professionally tested.

pull your sparkplugs-- definitely time if they are original-- and see if there is any oil on them.

~Colin

hammerhead

I'm still getting a wobble like a tire imbalance at freeway+ speeds. Hunter road-force balanced, hub rings in place. I've not yet done an on-car balance.

Q's for the crew: Could a slight alignment problem mimic a balance issue at speed? Any benefit to trying to find a cure by dong a one-wheel-at-a-time rotating the wheels a quarter turn? I may just rotate them back to front first to try to narrow down which corner is affected.

Cheers!
Paul

kens

Paul,

I don't know if you've checked already, but are the wheels out-of-round?

Ken

kens

Typically the front brakes wear out sooner due to the weight distribution of the car under braking. I wonder if EBD has any impact on wear patterns.

The brake pedal being spongy is partly due to the dual booster design and some firewall flex. I've read about some Impreza owners that have installed brackets to help with the flexing.

Ken

hammerhead

Ken, they weren't last fall when they were on the car, and there haven't been any bumps in the might since then - I suppose anything is possible, and I'll add that to the list of 'maybe' items to check out. Thanks.

Cheers!
Paul

locke2c

quote: Typically the front brakes wear out sooner due to the weight distribution of the car under braking. I wonder if EBD has any impact on wear patterns.

I'm not sure about Subarus, but I know that Evos do wear the rear brakes considerably faster with EBD. I'm not certain how this phenomenon is being achieved, perhaps it has more rear bias when not locking.

~Colin

kens

Interesting, Colin. That's the first I've heard of accelerated rear brake wear being associated with EBD. You'd think the manufacturer would increase the size of the rear brakes to counter that tendency.

Ken

crashton6

This will be the second time you've heard of EBD accelerating rear pad wear. My wifes Audi dusts the rear wheels more than the fronts. According to the Audi service techs it's because of the EBD. Lots of Mazda 3 owners are noticing the same thing with their cars. I think it's a fair trade off, less rear pad life for better braking efficacy.

Chuck

garrett

Heyjude,

Any luck from SOA yet on your 04 Forester problem? I've run five tanks of premium through mine and it has helped a little in that it doesn't ping as much as usual. But up hills, on-ramps, with the A/C on it will still ping pretty heavily. I'm waiting for an appointment with the district service manager but I can guess his answer already - it's 'normal'.

Someone else suggested resetting the ECM by diconnecting the battery but I haven't tried it yet.

Let me know if you make any more progress.

Garrett

locke2c

You'd think the manufacturer would increase the size of the rear brakes to counter that tendency.

um... I have 320mm rotors up front and 300mm in the rear. the front calipers are significantly beefier and four piston versus two in the rear, and naturally bigger brake pads up front to match the calipers.

the exact same calipers, front and rear, are used on the STi, 350Z track and G35.

EBD seems to be way superior to traditional ABS on loose surfaces, btw. Feels a lot more natural and progressive on gravel and snow.

~Colin

jmtreetop

Paul,

I'm getting the exact same thing on my 05' Everything starts to shake at 65+ mph. The steering wheel jiggles back and forth. I have had the tires balanced 4 times (hunter road force) and rotated once and tire pressure checked. Last week I got the factory rep to go on a ride with me and he recommended that I get new tires. He thinks there is an out of balance condition when the tire is under load. Of course I have the R92's that came with the car so now I have an appointment tomorrow with Firestone to see what they will do. Most likely, they will balance my tires and send me on my way. I was told that the alignment will not cause a vibration.

c_hunter

The rears wore out first on my parent's 00 Outback. I found it surprising at the time.

Craig

dcm61

So far every Subaru I've owned the rear brakes wore out first. Usually get around 60k to 65k on the rear and 85k+ on the front.

2 - '89 GL-10 Turbo FT-4WD wagons - 5 MT
1 - '93 L FWD sedan - 4EAT
1 - '96 OBW - 4EAT
1 - '03 OBW - 4EAT

DaveM

maverick1017

Learn something new everyday! Man, am I experiencing an anamoly or what? My old 94 Nissan had the rear replaced at 90K, I had to replace the front ones on that car at 65K. I am still on my original rear pads at over 120K on my 98L. maybe I should have my rear brakes checked out to make sure they are adjusted right? Oh well, its going to be my brother's car soon enough.