Subaru Crew Problems & Solutions

paisan

If there is slippage on the road (as would be the case when you have the blizzaks on it doesn't matter because there won't be any driveline binding. Also you can run a spare tire in an alteranate size temporarily without damaging the system. It's just that as a daily occurance running different size/wear tires will cause damage.

-mike

mortpeaberry

I hate to give even more press to non-local people but tirerack has pressure sensors and display to help indicate problems

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/accessories/monitoringsys.html

I've seen this on BMW m/c about 6 years ago, so I think most major bugs should be worked out - but I do not have any actual exp. in this area (though I believe the CHP are using some sort of system like this on their BMWs)

steve v

santa cruz

dan2001

More info.... the car is garage kept. And has not gotten really cold yet. Only in the teens. The starter turns, and engine needs longer to start. Then the idle is very rough. Very low RPMs, like its about to die. Then the idle revs up and down between 1200 and 1700. This is my first Sub and not sure if this RPM wandering, (good description Colin!) is just normal.

Thanks, Dan

locke2c

teens! that's plenty cold. since it's cheap, I'd be inclined to agree with mike's first suggestion to try a water removing gas additive, like HEET.

after that initial 'very rough idle' everything sounds normal to me. how's power and driveability once you get on the road?

-Colin

dan2001

Thanks for the reply. After that initial 'very rough idle' everything is great. Power and driveablity is excellent, just like the brochure! A dream to drive and great power.

-Da

dukephoto

I have an '01 VDC. On some cold mornings (not all), it doesn't start on the first try- it cranks but doesn't turn over. The second try, it does start, but "hangs" at around 500-750 RPM for a few seconds and sounds like it is about to die. Then it "catches", goes up to around 1700 RPM, and then does the rpm wandering it normally does. Once it warms up, there is no problem at all.
I use the same gas all of the time- if there was water in it, why would it only happen in the cold? I would think it would be a more consistent problem.
Also, I had read here that there was a known cold start problem in the ECM on the H6's made before Feb. 2001. After that they used a new program. I also read that it is possible to have the ECM in the car reprogrammed. Are these the classic cold start symptoms that the reprogram might fix? I tried to get the dealer to reprogram the ECM before I picked up the car (I had checked the mfg. date and it was Jan '01), but they said they couldn't do it as a warranty repair since they hadn't "sold" the car yet. Seems it would cost Subaru more to have to do it now, especially if I would need a loaner car (the reprogram I had read about required sending it back to SOA, it wasn't at that point being done at the dealership).

DUKEPHOTO IN WV

c_hunter

Kate: you did the right thing by replacing all four tires. I recently found myself in the same position. After some research and talking to folks here on Edmunds, I bought four new tires. The official Subaru spec calls for all 4 tires to be within 1/4" of circumference, and that translates to ~0.08" in diameter. Not a whole lot -- you can easily wear this much off the tread in 10-15K miles.

Whether Subaru's 1/4" spec is realistic is another issue.

Dan: before starting, turn the ignition on and wait a few seconds. You will hear the fuel pump (in the tank) run and then cut off. This will reduce the amount of time (and cranking) required for the engine to start. Works for any car with fuel injection.

Craig

leo2633

Mike,

Thanks for the reply. I'm aware that there wouldn't be a problem with a small difference in tire sizes in the slop. My concern is if I should mount the Blizzaks in anticipation of a forecasted snowstorm, then drive 50 miles to work in the dry and encounter a flat. Then, if the storm never came (the weather-folks have been known to get it wrong...remember the big, bad storm of '00 that never came?), I'd have another 50 mile trip home. I'm curious as to how much difference in tire diameter the system can tolerate without damage.

Len

paisan

My guess, and I'm not an engineer, would be that 50 miles in that situation, at moderate speeds say 50mph max, you should be ok. If you have an AT you should put it in FWD mode also which would further eliminate problems caused by a mis-matched tire size. I believe the reccomendation is for long-term use, not a one shot quick trip type situation.

-mike

cptplt

I've driven over 100 miles with the donut spare more than once, didn't notice any problems during or after. as paisan says its its not good long term but if it were a real problem even for short trips they wouldn't provide a donut spare. Or would they????

ateixeira

I share the same concern because my spare is 205/70R15 and my regular tires are 225/60R16, enough of a difference to potentially create a problem.

If I had to mount it, I would keep it at 33psi and probably lower all other tires to 29psi, and then drive straight home or to a shop that could fix the flat.

Definitely in my case it would be very short-term only. At least my Subie has open diffys on both axles, that can handle some variation better than a LSD.

-juice

ateixeira

One more thing - a thought on the rough start. I just replaced my OE battery, and found starting became much smoother.

The OE battery for the manual trans Forester had only 260 CCAs, pretty weak. The replacement has 535 CCAs and seems to result in smoother starts.

-juice

mrkite1

Duke,

Well add another car with the Cold Start problem...

Mine is a 2001 LL Bean Wagon...It sat in garage for 2 days and nights only got down to the high 20's here at night...

Went to start car this morning and it just cranked...

Then did what I do for our 1990 Legacy wagon turned on key waited 10 seconds...It cranked a bit more but did start...Ok after that...

Seems the cars just have trouble on cold morning getting the fuel to flow...

I'm gonna let it sit tonight and see if wating 10 seconds before trying to start helps...

Seems odd that Subaru would have this problem I have a 1992 Honda CRX parked in same garage never had a problem starting...

How do you determine the Build Date of the car??

Also, was cleaning car with CD playing and discovered that the 2 rear Tweeters don't seem to be working...
Anyone know of a way to test them to make sure they are working or not? I suffer from some hearing loss at the high end so would like to make sure before making a issue of them not working...

Treaded all the vinyl and rubber door seals on car with 303 Protectant (found it a Marine supply house) expensive but man it works great!! Low luster on Dash just what I was looking for and not slippery!

Tom

c_hunter

is printed on a metal tag on the door or door jamb (can't remember which).

Craig

hammersley

turn the bass all the way down, the treble all the way up, put in a tune with a lot of high-frequency notes (cymbals, for instance), and turn up the volume. Also might help to adjust the balance & fader controls to isolate one speaker at a time.

Happy New year, all! And remember, don't drink & park - accidents cause people!

Cheers!
Paul

jwoll

My wife and I have complained from the beginning that the headlights in 97 OB are absolutely awful.The illumination is ok,however, the width and distance are disappointing and dangerous. So many times, I have come close to hitting pedestrians who were not at all illuminated by my lights. Any suggestions? I complained to Subaru years ago, but they were mum on the issue.

paisan

In '98 they switched to multireflector and they were a little better than the ones in my dad's '97 Legacy. Try out my Trooper lights and you'll see awful, my dad's 97's are 10000x better a nice focused light that illuminates quite nicely, not the mushy fuzzy glow of my trooper's lights. You might try some aftermarket driving lights if it's really that bad or perhaps they aren't aimed properly?

-mike

subaru_team

Hi all. I did a quick check here to see if there were other reported complaints/fixes. I'm not seeing much. Please report the concern to your dealer. Once your dealer has checked it out, please let us know if it is not resolved (1-800-SUBARU3) so that we can get involved.

Thanks!

Patti

ateixeira

jwoll: for a quick fix, try a slightly brighter bulb, such as Phillips Vision Plus, for a little extra light output.

You can also use higher wattage bulbs, though I'd be concerned about the extra heat produced. Also keep in mind that bulb life can be significantly reduced.

Someone here (I forget who) had HID driving lights added to his Outback, and it was like daylight, amazing. You get what you pay for, basically.

-juice

shortlid

Anyone ever replace the LEDS under the buttons on the heating a/c system??

paisan

There are LEDs under there? I know my dad had his back-lighting replaced on his HVAC.

-mike

popgun

Reading comments on tire pressure issue with intrest. I have been running 32 psi as many of you have reported you do as well. Browsing in the auto dept. of the local Wal-Mart store, I found some valve stem caps that monitor the tire pressure by displaying green/yellow/red color bands. Caps for 32 and 36 psi were available. The little buggers cost a bit over two bucks apiece but seem to be well constructed. A quick glance at these caps, when showing green, will assure you that your pressure is 32 psi. Yellow and red color indicate lower pressure.
Doug

beachfish

They sound useful. Where did you say you parked at night?

Happy New Year!

John

FrankMc

Hi all-
I am experiencing a strange burning smell that I can't seem to get a handle on. I have a '97 Legacy Brighton with 69,000 miles. On Christmas I noticed a burning smell, after a 75 mile trip. I didn't notice it at first, but I noticed it when I returned to the garage a minute later to unpack the car. It happened the next day as well, (again after a 75 mile trip) so I knew it wasn't something I picked up along the road. I put it up on a lift to look for leaking fluids etc. I didn't see anything. I was wondering if it was related to the longer trips (the engine getting hot or something). On New Years Day I drove 2 miles and was able to smell the burning.. (the same drill, you can't smell it at first, but if you go into the garage a minute or two later you smell it). Since it was so cold on New Years I figured it couldn't be from a hot engine, perhaps the brakes are binding up. I figured out that the smell, (no smoke at all) is coming from the drivers front. I took it to a garage. They examined the brakes and they looked fine. They also let the car idle for an hour and no burning smell. It must be from moving. Does anyone else have any ideas on what I can check!

Frank

miksmi

Hi Frank,

I'm guessing but what about a dragging parking brake shoe? Salt splashed onto the headers (hence not easily visible)?

You say a strange burning/hot metal smell, so I assume you mean it's not an acrid nor electrical (burning insulation) smell.

Other ideas, anyone?

..Mike

outback165

First of all, thank you everyone for your responses. Unfortunately my siser and brother-in-law were in a bind as there were only in town for a couple of days and had to have the car to drive back home! The new clutch felt good, but there was A LOT of play in the shifter which I don't remember feeling before. Any chance that could be related? Also re the flywheel wearing over time with a bad clutch, that clutch had been "going" for over a year, so I guess they paid the price for not listening to their brother!! Thanks again all for the help.

jwoll- I've heard a bunch of people complain about the same thing with their headlights. Does anyone know whether it is possible to just swap out the bulbs to get a brighter light?

Pete.

fibber2

Glad to see we are getting more Steve's on this board! Have to balance the Dave's, Paul's, etc....

I seem to remember that tire pressure warning systems will be govt mandated on cars beginning in '03 or '04???? My understanding was that the basic systems as used on some Ford and Toyota family vehicles used the components already present: keying off of the ABS wheel speed sensors to indicate a change in tire diameter. A loss of pressure will reduce the overall diameter, requiring that wheel to rotate faster, triggering the indicator. The TireRack system appears to be much more elaborate - sensing and 'radioing' the actual pressure to a host. Chevy introduced a similar system on the past generation Corvette.

Now what I am curious about is how an inflation loss related change in diameter will play against the AWD systems desire to keep all tires rotating together.... Might the two systems work against each other??? Can the system recognise the difference between traction related wheel slip and a loss of pressure? It seems it might not be possible to apply the 'simple' speed sensor system to an AWD car, or even one with traction or stability control.

Steve

fibber2

Some years ago I owned a Datsun with EFI that would start great in warm conditions or restart during the day, but always gave me fits on cold mornings. I finally realized that if I turned the key to 'on' but not start and wait for a few seconds, the fuel pump would 'prime' the system, then she would start up OK. The Nissan service mgr was stumped, but one of his mechanics understood what I was describing. EFI systems run at about 30psi, and the lines should stay charged (under pressure) for ages if the system is well sealed. I had a check-ball leak that dropped the pressure. Seems it only seated poorly when cold. Trying to pump up a dead systems when the injectors were firing took up to 10 seconds, priming it reduced it to 2-3 seconds. Replacing a $5 part restored instant starting.

Steve

c_hunter

Here's how the wheel RPM varies with changes in tire diameter (for the 225/60-16 tire size on the Outback):



It's about a 2% error at 1/2 inch difference in diameter.

I'm amazed that an AWD system could detect changes like 1/2" in diameter when it translates to just 2% difference in wheel RPM, but Subaru's tire specs (calling for all tires to be within 1/4 inch circumference) make it sound like that matters. 1/4 inch difference circumference is only 0.080 inch difference in diameter, and that would be just a 0.3% error in wheel RPM according to my numbers.

Craig

miksmi

That chart brings a tear to my eye. You quantified the problem and made this enginerd proud.



..Mike

FrankMc

It seemed to be coming from the drivers front, however the process of examining the brakes may have "fixed" the problem. I didn't notice it yesterday. (I have a cold so I am going to re-test tonight ). It did seem strange, that there was no visible symptoms. There goes my excuse to buy a WRX

Frank

cptplt

it isn't transmission fluid is it? I had that problem on my 98 when it was new leaking from some seal but I could actually see a few spots of fluid on the floor

miksmi

You're welcome, for what it was worth.

ask my wife to also try and smell the odor

Aren't wives great? I don't know about yours but mine just loves when I ask her to drive the car while I run beside it, listening for a noise. Ok, mabye she doesn't love it.

Honey you never know when the car will burn to the ground.

hehe Frank, you're stretching it.

Dennis may be on to something with the transmission fluid suggestion. Was anything serviced recently (I presume you would have come clean before now)? I'm now in my enginerd's "what changed" diagnostic mode.

..Mike

rsholland

You've become pretty active these past few days with all your posts. Must be the new car show season...

Bob

miksmi

Hi Bob, and Happy New Year! Everyone usually beats me to the punch. I've been following the Crew threads every few days but only check the Subaru ones periodically. But yes, I've been reading the auto show posts by you, juice, et al with great interest.

..Mike

lharvey1

Have a 90 Legacy that has had a couple of cracked front cv boots .... leaking grease will
splatter and cause a burning smell. May want to check this also.
Larry H

FrankMc

any fluids... It looked dry as a bone, I also checked levels and they looked good as well. I will continue to check for odor.

Thanks guys
Frank

3subfam1

I encountered a similar problem to jlawton2 regarding replacing the clutch (after only 26k mi.). Most of my clutch work was under warranty, except for the wear item exclusion. I have driven MT exclusively since 1973 without a single clutch problem, so this was a real surprise.

My specific question is about the ballpark price of the excluded item - the clutch disk linings. Should the linings be over $100? I'm not a mechanic so I don't know parts very well. Are the linings a separate part from the disc itself, or are they attached?

jlawton2's comments about being told to drive hydraulic MTs differently is also disconcerting.

Any insight into the pricing?

Jim

locke2c

the clutch lining is commonly called the clutch disc. assuming the pressure plate (also called clutch cover), release bearing, pilot bearing and a few clips were all covered under warranty, the clutch disc should be cheap. you can buy the exact one that's used by FHI direct from the Exedy.

in fact that disc is used in several aftermarket clutch kits, Exedy's own and ACT street. the exact price could probably be found searching around on the iClub, but I'd guess it to be around $150-180. full MSRP on the FHI part might be as much as twice that. why, what did you pay?

-Colin

3subfam1

The clutch disc was $130, so I guess I have no complaint about the cost. I had been thinking that the lining was more like a $25 - $50 pad. Thanks for educating me.

My only concern now is whether I am going to have to change my clutch technique with the new hydraulics.

ikoiko2u

Usually a dealer wants to perform more than necessary so this is unusual...

I have a local dealer who says that he does not feel it necessary to follow all the recommended work that Subaru recommends. For example, he says it is not necessary to flush the radiator or brake fluids at 30K. At 60K he does this. His lower price reflects this attitude. Should I be wary of his advice?

What should be included in a comprehensive 30K service for a 2000 Outback wagon with automatic transmission?

Thanks,

Paul

ikoiko2u

My 2000 Outback wagon has recently had a horrible odor. It is not coming from upholstery or carpet. It seemed to come from the ventilation system and was most noticeable in the front passenger foot well under the glove box. I sprayed an air freshener into the intake vents and it seems to have taken care of it. Has any else had this experience? Could this be mildew or mold that produced the odor? How can this be prevented in the future?

Thanks,

Paul

cptplt

if you don't do the minimum in the owners manual and something goes wrong SOA might try to get out of covering any warranty work which may be related to your failure to carry out regular scheduled maintenance.

jei

Subaru.com has manufacturer's recommendations on its website. I use those as a guide. Flushing coolant and replacing automatic transmission fluid every 30K are good if conservative preventative maintenance procedures if you plan to keep the car a long time. They could forestall an expensive replacement or rebuild later on.

jfl

Do any of you know of a reasonably priced service manual for a 2000 Legacy/Outback?

The factory manuals are around $275.00!

I'm surprised that Haynes doesn't have one. Not even for the WRX which is a cult car in the UK.

I've gotten so OCD that I'm thinking of doing my own maintenance. (I used to do this years ago but burned-out after rebuilding a car.)

miksmi

James, I'm in the same boat (00 GT and OCD). I saw two on ebay once for $150 and $175 but missed them. The least expensive I've found is $283.53 at http://www.subaruparts.com/catalog/?section=204 . Who sells it for $275?

..Mike in MD

jfl

The "around" was for the price at subaruparts.com. Guess I should've written "around $285".

Jim

bigfrank3

I don't know if this is helpful, but when I bought my set (Forester) from Darlene she told me that you could buy the books individually. You don't have to buy the whole set, even though I did.

For light maintenance, the book on prepping the car for delivery is pretty good, and was one of the cheaper books if I remember correctly. If you have no intention of taking the transmission or engine apart, you could live without a few of the books.

Regards,
Frank

miksmi

Jim, I see; I thought you were on to a new supplier. FSM is my pricing benchmark, hence my curiousity. If I wasn't an enginerd I would know that $275 is about $283.53. My bad.

Frank, that's good to know.

..Mike

ateixeira

A thought on the smell - could it be the infamous sulfur smell of the undercoating burning off the exhaust? Or perhaps the chemicals used the melt ice on roads? Try washing the undercarriage, maybe.

For the HVAC, spray some Lysol through it with the system running to kill off any bad smell. I turn the A/C off a block before my house and vent it out a little before parking to prevent this.

-juice