What used car shall we get?

dar56

Time to replace a Pontiac Montana van with nearly 300,000 miles on it. What to get next? Prefer to spend less than $15,000 for a decent used vehicle that will tolerate lots of hilly and windy highway driving. (Western Montana). Right now we're spending about $200 a month on repairs!

I own a Scion XB, which is just a BIT too small to be ideal for him, but it's perfect for me.
Preferences:
>20 mpg
Sutiable for big and tall folks. He's 6'3" and I have legs almost as long, although I'm not as tall. Adequate hip, head, and leg room.
Wagon or SUV (MAY consider another mini van)
Removable or stowable rear seats? (Dog and /or cargo)
4 or more doors.
Hatch or swing back.
Good in snow
Well constructed
Enough power to carry us plus 600 to 1000 pounds of cargo occasionally. Hilly terrain throughout our territory.


So what say you? What models do you recommend? Based on what I've read we should stay away from the Subaru (underpowered) Looking at things like CR-V, Highlander, etc. But would love to hear from the community at large.

dar56

In the original post, By windy, I mean curvy, twisty roads.

suydam

Is there some reason you aren't thinking of a Jeep Grand Cherokee? I think the Subaru Outback can be had in a V6.

graphicguy

Would something like this be totally out of left field for you?


http://www.motortrend.com/ni/classifieds/223363618/3279/

stickguy

Crv is no more powerful than a forester I don't think.

Maybe a hyundai Santa Fe (the version that went through 2012).

Last generation ford escape with a v6.

Highlander is much bigger and truckier. Not to mention expensive.

dar56

graphicguy said:

Would something like this be totally out of left field for you?


http://www.motortrend.com/ni/classifieds/223363618/3279/

Graphic Guy,
This is NOT out of left field, but I'd like to know more... road noise, reliability, comfort of seats, etc. My sweetie is a big guy, 6'3" and pushing 300. The seats in the Montana van didn't support him well at all!

stickguy

Transits are functional but not speedy or all that drive able. Probably better off sticking with a real car!

dar56

suydam said:

Is there some reason you aren't thinking of a Jeep Grand Cherokee? I think the Subaru Outback can be had in a V6.

The mileage on the Cherokee is below our ideal range.

roadburner

I like the Nissan Xterra.

xwesx

The $15K cap puts a big question mark on any of my suggestions.

First suggestion, however, is to not write off the Subaru based on power. That's both funny and silly. I have a 2010 Forester with the somewhat-maligned EJ25 engine, and it is a straight-up workhorse. But, one thing that might get tiresome is the 600-1000# cargo hauling requirement. A Subaru (Outback or Forester) would do it, but you'd be saggin'! Call that puppy the "saggin' wagon" LOL!

My family (4) took a nearly 13K transcontinental trip in our Forester last year with it loaded to the gills, including a cargo tray on the back, and it returned nearly 27 mpg average over the whole thing. Our best tank was a little over 30 mpg with the worst a hair under 26. So, pretty consistent and respectable results for that loaded of a car. I am just guessing, but I think cargo was likely around the 700# range (it was squatting heavily). Even so, I passed when I wanted and had a blast scootin' that poor little 4-banger up the mountain grades (a 5MT helps the fun factor).

Other options: Room... how about a Ford Flex? Those things are like caverns inside! Power is good, the cargo weight shouldn't be an issue, and available as AWD. Comfort will probably be WAY better for your beau (than a Subaru or other Subie sized vehicle like a RAV4 or CRV). Full size SUVs are likely out on a general line due to the FE requirements, but Yukons, Tahoes, and Expeditions are like driving around in your living room! Fuel economy isn't horrible on the open road - probably around 18 mpg realistically - and, depending on the price of the vehicle and the miles you drive, a small difference in FE between models is probably not the biggest factor to consider.

In vans, you have the Sienna. AWD available, but pricing might be an issue depending on year. Comfort is likely good (at least, I think so, but I'm on a much smaller frame).

Finally, full-size HD pickups in diesel variant. You'd have to go back a few years further than other options to get into 15K range, but FE is very good on Dodge pickups, especially. Even pulling heavy loads, you'll likely see 12-15 mpg, and normal highway cruising will put you at or near 20 or more.

BUT - consider the cost of future maintenance in your buying scheme! Clearly, you keep your rigs for a long time. Plus, you're buying used. So, maintenance is going to be a major factor on any vehicle and one that could cause a lot of frustration down the road if you don't go into it with your eyes open. Edmunds has a "true cost to own" calculator that can give you an idea of how much you might spend on these hidden costs.

suydam

A Pontiac Montana can't get great fuel economy either. Are you looking to improve on that but still have the AWD, cargo and towing? That will be difficult with the older models. Maybe a Sienna with AWD?

dar56

Suydam thanks for your notes! Our Montana van averaged right around 20 mpg! That is pretty consistent, it sometimes drops down to 18 in the winter if we are idling or pre-warming a lot. It is pretty good mileage for a vehicle that heavy! AWD is not absolute necessity, but front wheel drive a must. Also need automatic transmission. One stick shift in family is sufficient! We need cargo, we do not tow. Don't plan to. The thing is the power up hills, and good handling. We spend MANY hours in our vehicles. They need to work well and support the back as well. The Montana van is a REAL stinker on long steep downhill grades (e.g., Lost Trail Pass, Independence Pass, etc. It is nearly impossible to gear it down enough to keep from over using/over heating brakes. Even dropping into lower gear, it gains momentum too fast. Definitely want something a little lighter. Note we do not have this issue at all with the Scion. And the seats in the Montana van were/are TERRIBLE! We've been through one replacement seat on the driver's side, and it's already lopsided and seems not attached well. This could be bad in an accident!

dar56

xwesx , we have read a lot of reviews about the Forester, complaints about it being underpowered. The fact that we OFTEN pass Subarus driving 10 to 15 mph below speed limit, usually when in hilly/ mountainous terrain, sort of underscores that it is either underpowered or is driven by timid little old ladies. I admit, I was once passed by a Subaru on such a trip, but that's because I got sidetracked by the music in my car and had accidentally slowed down! What I like about the Subaru is the spaciousness of recent models. However, they do hold their value well (so people must like them) and therefor are kinda out of our ideal price range right now.

Will look into the Ford Flex, it seems like I had ruled that out for some reason... but now I don't know what that was... mighta been leg room.

suydam

From what you are saying I would check out a used Sienna and also the V6 Outback. Both should be very reliable and get decent fuel economy. And have good legroom and cargo capacity.

steine13

Subaru Outback or Forester. Toyota Sienna or maybe Venza V6. Either one of those is a better deal NEW, folk-tale wisdom notwithstanding.

I don't know nuthin' about SUVs, but I do know that people love their Grand Cherokees and I've been impressed with the Pentastar V6 -- it's Chrysler's "Chevy 350" of the 201x years... whatever the question, that's your answer. There's a good chance that a Gd Cherokee is a better buy used over new. It's pretty simple math.

As far as power on the Subaru, the easy solution is to get one with a manual. I have the '14 Outback with that powertrain, and if I need to flog it, it goes just fine. It won't scoot at 2000 rpm, though, the way most people like it. They do have a six-cylinder -- not a "V6", a boxer -- and it's a good one, but it's shoe-horned in there very tightly. The maintenance would scare me a bit for long-term ownership.

Try to suppress your preconceived notions -- unless you really like 'em -- and try out a few cars. You never know. 2007 E-Class 4matic wagon, anyone!?

Cheers -Mathias

suydam

That's right, I forgot Subaru has the boxer engine. Six cylinder, I meant.

xwesx

Yeah, I guess everyone's expectations vary when it comes to power. 175HP in a 3500# car isn't slouch territory, though. I laughed at the comment about "little old ladies," but that's not overly wrong. Subarus get bad-mouthed a LOT in Alaska because there are two types of people that buy them: 1., the people terrified of driving and who want a "safe" car, and 2., the folks who love winter driving. So, the Subaru is either the fastest or the slowest car on the road.

I use mine for towing on my annual dipnet trip and don't hesitate to pass at 70 on a two-lane road when I'm held up by slower traffic. But, going up a long grade, I'm basically limited to 4th gear @ 65 in those conditions.

You're right that they do tend to hold value well, so your price point would be putting you in the range of pre-FB engine block, and you might not want to go there given the strong likelihood of head gasket issues. Outback does have the H6, but, then to get to your price point, you'd be looking at 50% depreciation or more, so you *might* be able to find a 2010 MY with that. Pre-'10 and it is a totally different car. A better car, if you're a driver, but not nearly the space or comfort. Also, Forester does have the turbo-4 as an option, but I have no idea what that does in terms of used market pricing.

My biggest concern about any Subaru is your beau's comfort in them. He might not find them great over long distances.

It's hard to beat the versatility of a minivan! I loved my 1998 Dodge Grand Caravan (AWD) with it's 3.8L V-6. Handled really well, had plenty of oomph, fuel economy very similar to your Montana (I averaged a lick under 20 mpg; probably 18 in city w/ as low as 14-16 in winter but as much as 24 on the highway), and just so much space!!! The Sienna is a good van. Sadly, it is the only option for AWD in the minivan platform today.

I had not really thought about this previously, but what about the Charger or Magnum. Magnum is getting a little long in tooth at this point, but there are still some lower mileage examples out there. Decent space in those. Cargo definitely an issue for the Charger (being a sedan), but AWD available on both units and respectable fuel economy.

Finally, 2012 or older Ford Escape. My grandmother has one of these, and it is pretty utilitarian in terms of the cargo/rear seat area, yet quite comfortable up front. Available in V6, AWD, decent fuel economy (similar to Subaru models). Definitely worth a look. My grandmother paid $19K for hers when it was a year old and 30,000 miles.