Oldsmobile Aurora: Acceleration

blk97aurora

This discussion has been dead for awhile. Yesterday on my way to work I was stopped at a traffic light next to a bright yellow Mazda with a big rear wing and loud chrome coffee can at the back. When the light turned green, he punched it and so did I. As is typical, my Classic fell back 1/2 car length, but I quickly took the lead before shutting down to make my turn. I don't know what model Mazda and it may not have been much of an achievement, but the look on the kid's face under his backwards baseball cap was priceless.

garnes

I love those stories. That stuff never happens to me though.

Great job smoking another coffee can exhaust & wing idiot.

rjs200240

There is a guy on a car-care forum that has a 1995 Aurora. He mentioned the one time he took his car to the track. He ran a 14.9 second 1/4, but I don't know what final speed or what the conditions were like. I'll ask him. Anyway, he has a 1995 Autobahn with a Superchips ECM. Also, he removed the spare, the rear seat, and the rear audio stuff. Don't know if the superchips is all he's done. Pretty impressive time.

seth042280

I thought that the only thing that you could do with the current ecm is reprogram it . I just looked on superchips inc and found nothing for an aurora

garnes

Seth - 1995 are pre - OBD II computer. Super chips once had a chip for it and they once listed it on their site. It supposedly added +20 HP and +33 lb-ft of torque. I highly doubt those claims. It may not be available any more. RJS once posted a link to an article on C&D's web site called "chips ahoy" and it was a pretty sobering look at these chips and what little they do - if anything. Superchips probably won't make anything for OBD II northstar engines.

Just do the intake, throttle body and exhaust. That's my theory at least.

RJS - 14.9 is pretty darn fast. Something had to be up with that.

BTW - I glanced through MT's review of the new Accord. 60 in 6.6! Hmmm. I know, I shouldn't even look. Somehow it's faster than a SC 3.8 with the same HP and almost +70 lb-ft of torque (at a WAY lower rpm too - like half the rpm's). I think it had a really goofy 4+ transaxle though, but still.......

rjs200240

Yeah, that's real fast. Maybe it's the chip. They claimed like 20+ hp and 30+lb-ft. Something real large. For all I know, it knocks like crazy, though. I don't know if he did more to the car, or if it was a super cold day or what. I think some tracks are "faster" than others too. Talking to some of the guys at the track I went to, they said they can consistently cut about .2 seconds by going to a particular different track. It might be a slightly lower elevation, or maybe the track has the tiniest bit more decline to it or who knows what. It might also just be crap. I didn't want to ask to see a time slip or be offensive. I'll wait to see what he says about what he's done to his car. Maybe he just got a fast one.

Even if the chip does add that much power, or drop times that much, I still wouldn't be interested (if they made one for my car).

6.6 seconds for an Accord... What a joke. When I looked up numbers on my Corvette, back in '87 it did a 6.1 second 0-60 (and that feels about right). So with an automatic, it would probably be about 6.5-6.6. But hey, they both make 240hp... You are absolutely right, there is no way in hell that damn Accord would beat a GTP. I haven't read the MT yet, but now I'm not looking forward to it. C&D pretty much made me sick. They even praised the new thick steering wheel the Accord sports after bashing the idea in an Aurora.

garnes

There is no way a chip will add that much. You should hear the guy with dyno - and what he thinks of chips. It's not pretty. He personally has not seen any good in them. Only when the car is highly modified does a change of the programming seem to really help. The bolt on stuff does not make for highly modified at all (but sure seems to get at about 50% of the gains you'd get from doing the expensive internal stuff).

That Accord may have been a manual. I can't remember. I'll have to check the C&D. Anyway, what did your vette have in torque + 120, + 130, + 140 lb ft?? (@ < 3000 rpm?) The Accord is 212 @ 5000+. It weight around 3400 lbs now too for 2003. Unless it's torque curve is really flat (like the Aurora or Intrigue 3.5) that 212 way out at 5000+ is weak. Even if it is flat, that's still not a lot to launch a car from 0. Ever since the Altima and G35 flap, we are going to all sorts of crazy stuff.

rjs200240

Here's more info on the guy's car. Yeah, I agree, I think the chip claims are bogus. But that is what they claim. It's a huge (read: absurd) amount. But I don't know. He didn't really say how it felt after he changed it. Maybe it really does work for the Aurora. I seriously, seriously doubt it, but I can't really say it doesn't.

He said he got the Superchips chip, and then sent the whole PCM in to be reprogrammed (apparently they change the shift points and such too). He also cut the cat off and replaced with a straight-pipe (although he might mean the resonator as many people confuse the two). He also cut out the bottom of the airbox and has a K&N. He said the day was cool. 80 degrees max, but I don't think he remembers specifically what the temp was.

The 'vette made 345 lb-ft at 3200 rpm (maybe 3600?). Only the 2-door Accord V6 will have a manual option. But maybe that's what MT tested. Yes, I think the Altima has made it more of a necessity for competitors to lie/cheat too.

garnes

RJS - yep, at 345, you are +133 of the new accord, maybe a little lighter, but still not quicker/or about the same with an auto. Yeah right. But that's what the mags want you to believe. Your old vette puts it into perspective.

800wattaurora

Going to the track tomarrow. Can't let my free track pass go to waste, tomarrow is the last test n tune night. So me in my 96 Aurora and my father in the 99 monte Z-34. Can't wait. The weather is supposed to be nice, high of mid 70's, come night time should drop into the 60's, A nice cool night. Northstar likey! I'm going to get there earlier than last time hoping to get some extra runs in before it gets packed. This weekend I started flushing out the 93 for the 100 octane (@ 3.19 per gallon). Before I go I'll hit the pump and fill 1/2 way. Tracks about 65 miles from work, should end up at 1/4 tank of pure 100 when I hit the track. I do have to say I notice slight difference with the higher octane gas. Not much, but that Traction Active light seems to be coming on more often. Chirps those tires little easyier. Can't wait for the Corsa exhaust, tires be chirping MUCH easyier than. Sigh.

Finally finshed painting my shield today, took pics of everything, I'll take a couple more at the track tomarrow and get the roll devolped ASAP. Pics by the end of the week for sure this time.

Taylor

http://www.cardomain.com/id/800wattaurora

mike98c

My unscientific observations (for what the hot air is worth) is that even though I didn't think the cat added much restriction to the flow. Now that I have taken several of the broken honeycomb pieces out of the cat, not only is the car somewhat louder, the michelins followed by the conti contacts, will squeal EVERY TIME from a stop if your to agressive. flooring it around 27 miles per hour will get you a healthy squeal almost every time unless the temp. is approaching the 90's. I noticed this the day I cleaned the broken pieces out of the cat.

rjs200240

Ok, people are probably getting sick of hearing about the Accord and the other V6 cars, so I'll stop after this (until the next magazine outrage). But I looked back. I did read the MT review, I guess I just forgot. They tested an automatic 4-door, so that 6.6 second time was with the auto. They also got a 14.9 sec 1/4 mile. Here's what they said about the coupe: "... the Coupe will certainly top the Sedan's 6.6-sec 0-60 run, probably by enough to break into the 5s." I mean, who the hell are they kidding??? How can they seriously print that stuff?

Mike98c, that's pretty interesting about the cat. Were there pieces that were rattling around in it? That sucks when that happens. It sounds so annoying. Well, now you've got some free extra power. I imagine it will have a pretty insignificant effect on your emissions.

garnes

RJS - you had to share that. Mustang GT's beware - the new Accord is here.

Mike98C - that is really interesting. Now I wish I didn't have that cat. If it was removed or gutted, would this hurt the operation of the car in any way? Of course this is not legal, so this is all in theory - right?

I did see one out of the box and there sure seemed to be a lot of screens or whatever for the exhaust to pass through. It sure seemed restrictive.

Mike - how did you get it off to work on it? Any special tools or ramps?

rjs200240

Greg, on the OBD-II cars there are two O2 sensors. One before the cat and one after it. So if there is nothing in the cat, you will probably get a Check Engine light. There are some devices that replace the 2nd O2 sensor and just send a good signal, but I don't know if they work well or not. I guess if you just took out some of the substrate that might work. It's too bad those hi-flow ones never seem hi-flow.

garnes

How would removing the cat change the oxygen sensor reading - or oxygen (if that's all it measures) in the exhaust? I thought the O2 was only about A/F ratios for optimal mixtures and burn. I thought the cat was all about other pollutants being chemically converted as they react with the hot media in there. Does the O2 also measure other gasses as well? Are you sure you'd get a check engine light?

High flow cat - yeah, I'm pretty sure they are all the same except for maybe a better inlet and outlet design. You have to pass the exhaust through a certain amount of media to meet regulations. There doesn't seem any way legally around that. That's my understanding after looking at one.

Mike - let us know how you accessed your converter.

mike98c

RJS, yes there is indeed a check engine light now that I removed the pieces that were rattling around in the converter. The converters body makes a great sound chamber, people would look around in bafflement trying to locate the sound as the car idled at lights. I put the car up on the ramps and disconnected the O2 sensor to get acess to one of the 4 nuts you have to disconnect on the flange from the down pipe and levered them apart. BUY A GASKET BEFORE YOU DO THIS! I removed with a long pair of tongs three big ceramic coated chunks of honeycomb. I haven't noticede any decrease in gas mileage on my treks between Wisconsin and Minneapolis. But if I were doing this intentionally I think I would have subsituted a straight thru muffler or resonator for a little better tone to the exhaust note. Now to get rid of the check engine light! P.S. the pieces were all acessible from the front, I wonder if the backfires from the bad F.P.R. damaged the media inside.

rjs200240

Hmm... I didn't think you'd get a light from just removing chunks. I doubt it was from backfiring. It's just something that happens to the cats eventually. I've had them break up on cars that were running fine. Also, they can break up on the backside too, but then it just flies out the exhaust and you'd never know it. On the front, they are trapped by the rest of the cat media so they just bang around forever.

Garnes, I dont' know what they measure or how they work, but the second O2 sensor behind the cat is specifically to make sure the catalyst is still working. That is part of the EPA's OBD-II. The car has to be able to determine if the cat is working. Most of the OBD-II is environmental stuff. It's just that it involved so many sensors and such that it also means the cars can track much more. That's why not tightening your gas cap can trigger a light. The EPA requires this so that fuel vapors don't pollute the air.

garnes

Pretty much stuck with that cat then I guess.

blk97aurora

Lost to a G35 today -- no surprise. What was a surprise to me was that the driver, a middle-age woman, raced me. She had me by a car length when I had to shut down at about 60 mph because my lane ended (happens a lot on NJ roads). I take some comfort in knowing that the G35 has the ugliest rear end I have ever seen (on a car).

garnes

You have all the fun. This never happens to me. Yep, ugly butt on that G35 - all the more motivation to pass it. Glorified Altima IMHO.

A car length?? That's not much. As fast as the G35 is SUPPOSED to be, you should have been crushed like a bug. Maybe I'm wrong, I didn't do any calc, but at 60 mph, 200 inches should go by really quick. Hmmmm. Something is up with your 97 with the 3.48. It sure holds it's own pretty well. You have the best stop light olympic stories.

To bad it wasn't a black 98, with the 3.71, airbox mod, K&N, throttle body, and Corsa. Heh Heh Heh. I'd love to see that "look" you describe from the other driver.

rjs200240

A car-length to 60 mph isn't all that small when you're racing someone. But you are right, considering how fast the G35 is supposed to be, it sounds like the Aurora hung in there pretty well. Really, though, would you trade out the nice exterior and nice interior of the Aurora for something substantially uglier just to gain a car-length to 60? Plus, the Aurora really shines in passing power. The G35 is geared pretty low for that shot out of the hole.

Garnes, you need to take your car to the track.

garnes

Your right - all of it. Especially the passing part.

OK, I did the math. Using 200 inches as an approximate car length (bigger car), at 60 mph, that's about .2 seconds. Just goes to show that every little bit helps too.

garnes

Make that "You're right".

blk97aurora

rjs200240,

Own a G35? I don't think so! I'll keep my Aurora and work to improve it. Greg is way ahead of me there, but I have the air inlet improvements. One of these days I'll finish installing the MSD capacitive-discharge ignition.

garnes

What is MSD capacitive-discharge ignition?

blk97aurora

Greg,

MSD makes a wide variety of automotive ignition systems for street and competition. Take a look at their website www.msdignition.com. I bought their DIS-4 part number 6615 capacitive discharge ignition. It provides higher primary voltage to the stock coils and delivers multiple sparks for about 30 degree crank rotation. There are reports of lower emissions and increased power -- which is obviously of interest, but I am not convinced.

For me it is an experiment, like working to improve the air intake. Plus, I'm an electrical engineer and love to try new technologies.

800wattaurora

When's the MSD experiment going to begin? I'm very curious to the results, I guy on the caddy board at gmforums just put one on his 4.6 and likes it so far. Let us know

Taylor

http://www.cardomain.com/id/800wattaurora

garnes

yeah, let us know. I guess this would help if there is some incomplete burning of the air/fuel with the stock set-up. That is if I understand that right.

sbeaupre

Anyone checked out the Plasmabooster products from ignitionsolutions.com??? Seen good reviews on Bruce's caddy site...

musclecar97

I've been away from the board for the last 2 months - busy coaching my son's 5th grade football team and I'm saddened not to see any more 1/4 mile runs posted. I thought Taylor was going back to the track in September. What about Garnes and his new exhaust (congrats on finally getting the Corsa). Comeon guys somebody needs to step up....I guess I'm not the only one with a life.

rjs200240

but I just never got around to it. I think the track was only open for one or two weekends in November, though. Back in October, most of the weekends weren't that cool, and the ones that were were rainy. I guess I could have made it if I'd really tried, but it was just sort of in the back of my mind that I needed to go sometime. I think they open back up in March, so maybe I'll shoot for then.

800wattaurora

I was planing on going to the Track again after I get my Corsa, things cam up and never happened yet. Some service problems with Traction off and ABS light, took several dealer visits, than a nice RENO vacation in there too. The good news is that my Corsa should be delivered Tomarrow! The bad news is that expecting 3-5in. of SNOW today, it already started. The track at Union Grove,WI is opened till first serious snow storm, so there now closed for the season. I'll definitly go in the spring time though.

garnes

Maybe I'll visit a track next spring. One of the most interesting things I've heard from the experience from the other guys is not only how fast the car is, but how fast the other cars are as well. There are the magazine numbers and then there's real life. Sometimes they match, but I think they just as often do not.

musclecar97

Thanks for the update guys, I appreicate the ongoing discusions and do continue to read the board though I may not have time to post.

Keep it up.

kletts

I have just bought a 1997 aurora with 45000 miles on it. I know very little about the vehicle I just fell in love with the ride, speed, and sleek good looks. My question is when I start up the drivers info center says all systems ok but a number pops up after that "35". what does that mean and should I be concerned? The other thing I would like to know is if there is a different battery you can use than the Delco? I have had a experience in the past with this companies batteries and prefer to shop else where if possible.

garnes

I have no idea of what you mean about "35".

Henry

Please do not double post on multiple boards. I answered your question on the other Aurora board.

Thanks

civicnitro

aurora is a little faster than maxima,,,,
if it was stick shift even faster
what do u think about putting nitro on v8
i wanna try.
anyone timed 0-60mph?
let us know ,,,

blk97aurora

It's been a rough winter. The temp today was up to 40 degrees with cloudless sky, and I'm getting spring fever bad. For me that usually turns to things automotive. I'm having my '97 Aurora detailed inside and out tomorrow; I found a guy who does a fantastic job for $100.

As I mentioned on another discussion, I am seriously pursuing an RSM Racing throttle body.

Does anyone have experience with blocking off or rerouting coolant flow through the throttle body? The added heat is needed for good drivability in cool or cold temps, but seems to be a detriment to performance at high temperatures. I'm looking into some kind of a manually activated valve that I can insert into the throttle body coolant inlet hose.

800wattaurora

I'm getting it too! Tomarrow should hit low 50's in Chicago, perfect car washing weather, It'll be the first hand wash of the year. Detail the inside, shine up the chromes and corsa tips. Then go to a St. Patricks day parade. Also this weekend I will have the pleasure of changing all 4 ignition coils on sunday. Thanks for the install tips on that one blk97. Hopefull this will fix my stuttering problem.

Go for the 80mm throttle body!!! Get the plate behind it. I think all 96+ caddies have the same TB. Needs to be an obd-II 4.6 to be identical to our 4.0 classics. Check with RSM to confirm this though.

Coolant by-pass, It would be a very easy to do. Having taken it apart, all you would need is a say 4-5in piece of metal tubing, the same size as the tb connection, probably 3/8in or close to it. There's 2 good clamps holding those hoses on the tb right now, just unplug the lines and hook up both coolant lines to your tube. Just thinking about it makes me want to go do this mod now. Think I will once it gets a little warmer, the heat has to hurt the performance in the summer, I will also swap back to it's next winter. Good plan 97!

rjs200240

It was one of those days... It had been drizzling on and off all day. The roads were wet, but not soaked. They didn't shine from standing water, but were wet enough that your car sprays it up onto the people behind you.

There I was, first in line at a red light. To my left, an Accord coupe, black with tinted windows and some chrome aftermarket wheels. Nothing outrageous, probably 17's. He had weaved through traffic a bit to be up front next to me.

As we sat there, I got the feeling he was going to try to take me. I don't know why, I just knew he would. When the light changed, I gave it about 1/2 throttle just to see what he was going to do. He hammered it from the light and put my bumper about next to the back of his door.

No way that was going to happen... I cracked the throttle to about 3/4 and felt the wheels scrambling to put that 260 lb-ft to the ground. At this point he was getting a solid earful of each one of those eight 1/2 liter powerhouses, and was probably wondering what he had awoken. As I feathered the gas further open I could feel it slipping and gripping. Even at about 40 mph the motor was still pulling those 235's loose. Amidst this scrambling, I put my car even with the Accord. By 65 mph I was walking away from him, and by 75 mph I started coasting and lightly applying the brake.

He flew by me after that, but I'm sure he felt no joy in having to do so. I caught up with him at the next light, and he never saw the front of my car again...

musclecar97

I love these stories. Plus they upset Garnes that nobody ever tries to race him from a red light.

garnes

"Each of those eight 1/2 liter powerhouses" Very cool.

Yeah, it does get me. I never get a chance to do that. Oh yeah, I blew out some obnoxious rust can Astro van that was really asking for it. Oh boy. That does not count.

Henry

I went with a friend on a trip from Newark to Boston. He had rented a ford SUV for the trip. I took the wheel for awhile. I was behind this Grand Am in the middle lane and decided to pass him. Just as I am about to pass the Grand Am speeds up and wont let me pass. As soon as I slow down, he slows down. I speed up he speeds up. So when he sped up again I went back behind him in the middle lane only to have him slow down again.

So what to I do? I change lanes to pass him, only to have him speed up again so that I could not pass him. Forgetting what I was driving I hit the gas to put an end to his nonsense.

BUT BUT BUT
I was not driving the Aurora.

While not an Astro Van, being toyed with by a Grand Am is no fun. MAN O MAN did I miss my car!

Henri

musclecar97

I just read about the 130 mph club on the Bonneville Salt Flats. Very few cars have actually made the club. Checkout www.saltflats.com I'm considering making a trip to try this, sounds cool. Think the Aurora with Autobahn could pull it off? It sounds like the salt takes some mph off of the car. Anybody else interested?

nne3jxc

Sounds like fun, but I get the impression from a quick Googling and this article that it's much more difficult than it sounds. The trick is you have to make it to (and sustain) 130 mph within a mile. And do it twice. The primary car talked about in the article is a modded (chip and intake) Audi A4. He didn't get it going faster than 116 mph. Our Auroras should be at least as fast as a chipped A4, but he also mentions a 5 liter Mustang that didn't make it -- "only" 123 mph. Now, I've owned a 5.0 and it was a lot faster than my Aurora.
I've gotten various cars to 130 mph (haven't tried with the Aurora though) and it's not difficult for any reasonably powerful vehicle. But I think the lack of traction in the salt, and possibly reduced horsepower from the elevation, really kill a car's performance.
It does sound like a blast though.....

musclecar97

I read the same article and thats what got me thinking. All these other cars that can't get it done and then have the Olds smoke them. I agree the 5.0 is quicker off the line, but if you've got the Autobahn and gotten her up to speed (I backed off at 120mph she's still pulling strong and aerodynamicly the classic seems to get tighter as the speed increases rather than becoming floaty. On the Autobahn the fuel shuts off at 139mph and according to the mags and Zinc the car is still pulling at that point. According to the Article and the rulebook, there's a trap at the end of the mile run to clock you. I know in the 1/4 mile I was around 90mph, so I'm not sure how long a stretch it would take to get her up to speed. I'd probably lose my bodily functions at some point. This is a good topic of discussion and now we just need some brave souls to try it.

rjs200240

So, as I was leaving the Post Office after picking up a package, I was turning out onto a short stretch of road before it hits another stop sign. It's a small road, but rarely travelled. There was an Accord bearing down at about 60 mph or so, but I had plenty of time to turn out ahead of him before hitting that next stop sign. I figured he just happened to be going fast since it was a lightly travelled road. Anyway, I hit the stop sign and made the turn before he got there. I got into the left lane because I was making a left turn at the next intersection. The light ahead had just turned red, and it is a long light as I am not on a heavily travelled street. I notice the Accord has also turned from the stop sign and is barrelling down on me. Seems like an arrogant fellow since there is no real point in flying into a red light. The road splits to two left-turn lanes before he gets up to me, and he rather unnecessarily jerks over into the left-most lane (I had stayed in the right-most left-turn lane). While sitting at the light, I look over at the driver, who is a balding mid-40's guy wearing thick-rimmed Oakley's. Couple that with the way he's driving, and he's obviously having some issues... Needless to say we both punched it when the light changed, and he looked like he was barely hanging on... The Aurora easily turned around him on the outside and continued on making him smaller and smaller in the rearview.

When he eventually caught up at another light, I noticed him in my rearview furiously pushing his remaining hair over his increasing bald spot. He was travelling the same way as I was for a while, and I continued to drive safely aggressively while he continued to struggle to try and keep up.

I just found it a bit amusing, and I think the moral of this story is that if you are a middle-aged guy who wants to play boy-racer, don't buy a V6 Accord unless you want to play boy-racer-in-second-place everytime you go up against me...

garnes

LOL. So perfectly told.

Hey, doesn't your Aurora know that new Accord is SO fast? After all, it's in the magazines.

95mushroom

rjs never said it was the new accord. I know the Aurora would smoke the old one. I think the new V6 coupe would be a tough one.