B6 S4 like it or hate it

cross6

Audi could have done some great things with this car instead they have done some good things. 344 Non aspirated horses, dual exhaust, 6 speeds that's good. Tweaks to 370, SMG, new better than ever interior would have been great. Will I buy when my lease is up in a year? That will remain to be seen. How many will buy, how many will keep their B5 S4's and mod them for the same or more power. Pricing will factor in, please Audi don't charge more than 45K base. By the way the Recaro seats I hope make it to America and are not only Euro spec, don't tease us. Also does anyone think Audi maybe holding back on the potential of ordering a 370HP version? Very little was said on options..If your listening Audi you will get my $$/

merc1

I agree, with only 344 hp and a more weight than the already heavy A4 3.0 Quattro, the S4 is not going to be beating any M3s or C32s.

I guess the really hot A4 will be the next RS4.

M

hotdogonastick

the question is...will the new rs4 be coming stateside or stay in europe??? i'll wait for it if it is coming...

rolsmi

Various websites indicate that the RS4 will not make it to North America. A local dealer told me that it won't meet emissions. The RS6 will be coming, however, at about $85K.

merc1

If Audi is serious then they'll spend the money and engineer it to meet U.S. standards, because the new S4 isn't going to be topping the M3.

M

effero1

Help me understand why people in this discussion are comparing an M3 to the future S4? Isn't the M3 a 2 door while the S4 is four? Strange why someone could mix the two up. BMW's four door is the M5 which we all know the S4 couldn't touch nor do I think Audi marketing will be attempting to go after the M5 with a 40,000 less vehicle.

JBaumgart

The RS6 is Audi's most comparable competitor to the M5, in both size and hp. It is reasonable to compare the S4 to the M3 - Car & Driver did a head-to-head a couple of years ago, and the S4 won the comparo. Since then of course the M3 has been redesigned and has received a large hp boost. Despite its edge in 0-60 and quarter mile times, I think I would opt for the new S4, due to our harsh climate here in MN - it's a more practical vehicle year around.

coolsly2

I currently own a Corvette 2002 Z06 and I don't think comparing both cars would be something possible nor comparing a M3 to a "2003" S4 would be possible or either the M5... Why? Not really the fact of the performance issue but I think that the S4 is different by all means. The S4 is all-wheel-drive and the M3 or M5 is rear wheel drive only. 4 doors for the S4 and 2 doors for the M3... Personnally, I'm planning on purchasing the "next generation" of S4 with the V8 just because I live in Montreal, Qc and the Z06 is sleeping in the garage 4-5 months a year and the S4 would be driveable 12 months a year wich would make a good compromise between a Z06 and a A4 3.0.

I have some sites with good infos on the S4 V8, I guess some of you already have them but here's a site with some "2003" S4 specifications.

1) http://www.fast-autos.net/audi/03s4info.html

2) http://www.bilportal.com/supercars/audi/2003_s4_sedan.asp

I find 5.6 seconds for 0-60mph a bit slow, what do you guys think? A M3 pumping 333HP could do between something in the high 4 or low 5...

Sylvain

JBaumgart

The sites you link show a 0-100km time of 5.6 seconds - this translates to 0-62 mph. I suppose this would knock off a couple tenths of a second if it were 0-60 mph. Will never be as fast as a new M3, but then again the M3 would not be your ideal winter vehicle in Montreal.

coolsly2

For the 0-60 or 0-62 times, it would change maybe something like 1/10 of a second that would still be shy of the 4.7 BMW claim for the M3. Something near 5.0-5.1 would have been great. Anyway, for sure it won't be a M3. It will be a S4.

My main concern now is the price tag that will come with the S4.

Sylvain

cross6

These times don't really matter much to the euro sport sedan crowd now do they? And what is the difference between an M3 driven by an expert driver and any other car driven by a similar expert? Mere fractions of seconds. A better question is can the car take this beating of wide open throttle driving? German sport sedan's again have a good history except lately the Audi S4 has been known to blow turbo's if not cared for properly. And if one visits the BMW bimmer.org forum in the M3 section you will no doubt understand the frustration of owning the S54 engine or should I say paranoia? Lately these engines have had catastrophic failure at an alarming rate, worse than Audi's turbo failures. What is my point you ask? Well, when you plop down 50K on a state of the sport sedan it should not blow up if driven spiritedly. So I would hope going forward that BMW and Audi build the car to go the speed rather than build for the speed alone. So far I love my Audi S4 and look forward to reviewing the next generation S4 and possibly own it. But when I stir 344 horses with my six speed I want to be confident that it can take the abuse. Build them better Audi and BMW and stop making the consumer your research and development team.

tausc82

I spoke with an Audi salesman who ststed the price of the new S4-V8 will be $3-4K below that of the M3. Assuming that to be true the cost will be around $50K for a S4.

Is this vehicle being sold in Europe and if so what's the price tag there?

poondogger

I think that the old comparison of the S4 to the M3 came from when the M3 had 4 drs back in its E36 days. I think that comparing the old B5's and the E36 M3 4-drs was appropriate because they had around the same mfg rated hp (255 vs 240 respectively) and any hp above the M3 was offset by the weight difference. However now, in terms of the E46 and the B6 comparison, i don't believe it is appropriate. I think that the new M3 will beat a new S4, especially with a more advanced Transmission system in the M3. But then again, I think all of our opinions are speculation at this point until we can actually compare the new S4 to any car in person or until we read a review by edmunds, car and driver...etc. Its true that the RS6 and the M5 are more comparable, however its believed that the RS6 will demolish the M5 despite its Automatic Transmission. My question for all of you: Is the Engine in the New S4 the same as the one in the RS6. They are both V8's, however I know that the S4 doesn't come with the Bi-Turbo. If you could put that on the new S4, considering the weight and the availability of the 6-speed Tranny...I think that the new S4 would be potentially a 0-60 & Quarter Mile monster. However, we won't know until later. As for me and any of my dreams of getting an S4, M3, or anything nice...I'll take any of these cars any day. I'd love the S4's (B5's or B6's) for a year round car and I'd love an M3 to tear people apart during those summer drives down Highway 1 *(For those of you from California, you know). Hey, if I were a Ricey Teenager, I'd probably still want an Impreza WRX STI which comes out soon. Anyway, I thought i'd add my 2 cents. Thanks for reading.

merc1

Automobile Mag has a comparo (Dec issue) in which they contend the M5 is still the king. The RS6 is unbelievably fast though. I mean 4.3 secs to 60 and something like 10.5 secs to 100 mph! In that respect it does kill the M5.

M

daman82

Does anyone know if Audi is thinking of putting the S4 in coupe form when the A4 coupe debuts?

tausc82

I recently visited an Audi dealer in PA to test drive an A4 3.0 to get a feel for the vehicle, knowing I seek the new S4. The salesman, who has 30 years with Audi, stated the S4 will come in around $43K. Sounds like a deal to me. :-)

nedmitchell

I think I'll have to agree with "poondogger" on this one. If you're looking for a good deal look no further than the STi. Around 30K you get something I believe will be as fast as this new audi and definitely less cumbersome. Look to the STi discussion for a report on it.

redout

The price of the S4 in Montreal will be like 68k$ base approx. and arrival date is something like september 2003.

storagemaster

I've read a lot of M3 vs. S4 talk here and thought I'd share my experience. Having owned an E46 M3 and now owning an APR stage II+ S4 Avant I can say firsthand that the M3 is UNEQUIVOCALLY a better machine all-around. I blew doors off of my friends MTM stage 4 S4 with my stock M3. Even though he had 400+ horses running on 93 octane he still couldn't touch my ultra-efficient 333 HP engine. However, as some have stated here, comparing the B5 S4 to the E46 M3 is comparing apples to cucumbers. The real comparison will be the B6 against the E46. Given the talk that I've heard about the B6 S4 and the comparison of the RS6 to the M5 (in which the Audi takes it hands down in my opinion) I am very eager to see the B6 S4 here in the states. Given the variety of current aftermarket tuning options offered for the S4 and assuming that will continue into the next generation, I predict that under $10,000 in aftermarket mods will leave M3 owners a car-length behind. Now the issue becomes price...If you are like me the price takes second place in priority to speed and performance, but in my educated estimation you'll be looking at a sticker on the S4 that will allow most or all of the mods required to beat the M3. For the real answer we'll just have to wait and see. To sum up: I can't wait to drive the B6 S4!! Hate to say it, though, but nothing comes close to the style of the M3 no matter how much you spend.

nedmitchell

I feel like BMW and Audi are taking two completely different philosophies when building their sports cars. Audi is taking the heavy-handed approach, cramming horsepower and V8s into their cars in the meantime not caring about the weight. BMW is looking for the balance, nimble but powerful. Frankly, i think Audi is going about it all wrong in terms of developing the most appealing sports car. However, the S4's main advantages are the price and the 4wd because of where I live. Beyond that, the M3 takes the cake.
just my thoughts.

jdbtensai

$50k to $55k from what i hear.
not bad. a little more than i would have hoped, for now i'm sticking with my 2001, but a lot of car for the money.

kernick

BMW isn't exactly holding the line on engine size. Didn't the Z3 drop it's small engine. When the M3 was redesigned didn't it have a displacement increase?
If you look at many other sports car companies, what is the trend? Lotus got rid of their 4-cyl and went to an 8-cyl for example. Nissan doesn't offer a 300Z, but a 350Z. Viper larger engine. Why? because we have an appetite for more power, and the least expensive and most durable way to do that is to add cubic inches and/or cylinders.

That is not to say that a good small engine can't outperform a large poorly-designed large engine. It means that once an engine is well developed, where do you go from there for more power? Maybe a turbocharger or supercharger? If you already have that in the design then what? Sure you can tune an engine like a race-engine, but those engines need a rebuild every few races.

I think Audi make a nice choice going with a larger engine in the S-4, especially considering the vehicle's size and weight. If the S-4 was under 3,000 Lb say, maybe the 60+ Lb of the 8-cyl would make a difference. The 8-cyl. has a nice base of power which theoretically, tuners can add a lot to.

I will be interested in looking at an S-4, but given the current economic climate Audi better come in no higher than $45K. There's going to be a Subaru Legacy STi coming out the year after the Impreza STi, that would be worth looking at, if there's a $10K+ price difference.

jwilson1

Meanwhile, the arrival comes closer.

And on the 'future cars' page, a picture of a lovely A4 coupe ..... anyone know if it'll be a 1.8 or headed for the S4?

JW

motokichi

I was aghast at the low mpg numbers in a recent Automobile rag. How can i justify a 12mpg car and continue to criticize SUV's?

Performance wise, S4 will be hard pressed by cars like the Evo and STi. Comparisons to the M3 and C32 are inevitable. The C32 and Audi seem to share similar philosophy - Build a beautiful, luxurious car that goes really fast. The M3 has a narrower focus.

As a fan of Audis, I would like to see Audi offer a real sports car. Like a street going version of their ALMS.

cross6

Audi fans will love this review. M3 fans will say " wait for the next gen M3". Mercedes fans well they abhor comparison's anyway!
http://audi.805net.com/CD_S4/

cross6

Audi goes 0-60 in 5.0 seconds!

s4life

5.0 is not bad but when they say "the S4 is in a league of its own in handling and chasis dynamics" and go to give it 10's in handling, fun-factor, engine and TRANSMISSION(at last you got it right audi) then I have to seriously reconsider my initial decision of waiting until the new RS4... I am impatiently waiting for a test-drive now.
 
s4life

pwright2

I think the new S4 is beautiful. Just a work of art. Who cares if the 0-60 time is a blink of an eye slower than the M3. The latest Car and Driver article tells it all.

tausc82

I saw the S4 at the NY Auto Show this past weekend and was really disappointed. With the exception of a few badges, the car looks like an A4. I was also disappointed in the two-tone seats which looked rather cheap. I'm sure the performance will be fine but when I spend $15K more for the S model, I'd like people to take notice. They had better price it right (not like they did with the RS-6) or Audi sales will continue to slump.

s4life

Audi is the most profitable company of the VAG group and their sales are far away from slumping.
If you like people to notice you've spent 15K more in a car I think you might be better off buying a M3 (which in my opinion has been overdone, I like the regular 3-series better). Audi is known for keeping it quiet... 'bauhaus' style.

phil

audibon

Sorry to say but the M3 against a Stage 4 S4 has no chance IMHO. It could be MTM, APR, TAP, ABT or another tuner but the results are all the same. It is just a matter of physics. Torque makes acceleration, not horsepower. Horsepower makes top end or better put top speed. A stage 4 with over 400 lbft. of torque @ around 2k with AWD is no match for a Stock M3 which barely gets 270 lbft. of torque @ 4900 rpm and RWD. If the guy you raced had a Stage 4 it was not functioning properly or he didn't have a Stage 4. A stock M3 0-60 is 5.0 flat. At Stage 4 an S4 should be able to do it in 4.5 or less without trying, the numbers and physics do not lie. Just my $.02...
Drive safe. Brian