New S40/V50

creakid1

http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/brunoluong/vwp?.dir=/Album+02&am- p;am- p;am- p;am- p;am- p;am- p;.dnm=frankfurt_sedan_5.jpg&.src=ph&.view=t&.hires=t

Tell me if this car reliable enough to replace the Impreza is ugly at all. In fact, it's most likely more cool than the Sube in everyway. It's made-in-Japan & will be available before January. Even the most expensive model w/ navigation & HID xenon headlights is only $23k, which is still $1k cheaper than a stripped 5-cyl new S40. Both this car & the new S40 will be the only cars sold in America sharing this same C-1 platform. The present S40 shares the Euro-market Mitsubishi Carisma's platform.

http://www.mitsubishi-cars.co.uk/carisma/

qbrozen

creak, you're looking at the msrp of the S40. It can be had for FAR below that, as wantapassat just pointed out.

However, that being said, I would probably pick the mazda3 over it. Only downside for both cars is that the S40 has HORRIBLE resale and so do Mazdas, typically (although i am hoping that changes with cars like the rx8 and mazda3). Oh, and Mitsu also has the resale of used concrete. out of all your choices, the Subaru probably has the strongest resale (unless the mazda proves otherwise).

Anyway, to answer your original question, I would not get the current S40. Just not worth it. If I were in your shoes and needed something, I'd probably get a beater for $2K or less and wait until the new S40 comes out so I at least can compare it with the Mazda3 and Impreza. when the time comes, if you took care of the beater and got a decent deal to begin with, you should be able to sell it for the same money you bought it for.

creakid1

"creak, you're looking at the msrp of the S40. It can be had for FAR below that, as wantapassat just pointed out."

Are you saying the stripped 5-cyl new S40 w/ std stability control will give lots of discounts off the base price of predicted $24K?.

"Only downside for both cars is that the S40 has HORRIBLE resale and so do Mazdas..."

Just keep the Mazda & don't sell it. That way it'll save you $, too. ;-) At least the typical made-in-Japan Mazda will last forever so you won't have to worry about getting rid of it due to the repair issues.

The non-STi version of the Impreza WRX is suppose to have a reasonably supple ride, at least more compliant than the BMW 3-series 3-dr hatch, which has the std lowered sport suspension.

Per CR, the RX-8 & Focus SVT also ride amazingly comfortable for a sports car. So w/ this combined technology, the Mazda3 might beat the Impreza in the ride/handling compromise. & so does the new S40/V50.

qbrozen

i see the disconnect. You referred to the price of the "new S40" while wantapassport was referring to the existing S40. So i got a little confused. I meant that the existing S40 he was inquiring about could be had for way less than $24K.

wantapassatnow

Thanks for your help. I guess I should forget the current Volvo S40 (if I could wait for the new one, I would ... oh well).

Funny you should mention Mazda. After my post, I started researching the Mazda 6. Apparently there's a major rust issue with that car right now. So I crossed it off my list. But if the Mazda 3 doesn't have that problem, I suppose I should consider it.

BTW, I plan to lease. I need a low down payment (no more than $1,000) and low monthly payments (preferably lower than $250/mo.) on whatever I get, and it seems leasing may be the only way to accomplish that. Plus, I haven't had the best of luck with keeping cars. My first car was a 1985 Honda Accord that I had for 7 years but died at 72k miles. Then I had a Honda Del Sol for 7 years that died ay 59k. In both cases, no mechanic could figure out what was wrong. So then I decided to lease the 200 Mitsu Galant; I like the idea of putting less money into the car (I pay $215/mo.) and giving it back after 4 years so that I don't have to deal with all the problems!

jchan2

have you tried the 9-2 yet? Coming in December, built by Subaru, some Saab features, and a decent price range of $22K-$27K.

wantapassatnow

Really? The Saab 9-2s are coming out so soon? I didn't realize that. Thanks for the tip. Though I am always hesitant to buy a new car in its first year. Thoughts?

jchan2

It is really a rebadged Subaru with some fancy Saab trim......

jchan2

they expect a December/January launch date, though don't quote me on that.

wantapassatnow

Hmm. I thought it was due in spring 2004. No real pictures seem to be out yet, at least that I can find, so it seems odd that it will be in showrooms in the next two months. But I hope you're right -- I'd love to check it out!

creakid1

Right after being a passenger in a '98 Passat recently, I felt like I really want a Passat now! ;-)

Anyway, low lease rate wise, you might as well get a year-end clearance Accord or the improved '04 Civic. Reliability wise, most 4-cyl Accords are assembled in Japan, which might help.

wantapassatnow

Re: the Passat, I wanted one when I created that screen name, then I test drove it. Icky.

Re: the Hondas ... I will never get another Honda again after my first two pooped out on me at such low mileage. Besides, everywhere I look there's a Honda! I guess that means they're good (I don't think so), but I also want to be a *tad* unique.

creakid1

If Hondas are not reliable enough for you & you want a reliable car that's not common? The Mazda 3S will be your ONLY choice!

http://www.theallnewmazda3.com/chd/common/images/gallery/gallery2- - - _1024.jpg

http://www.theallnewmazda3.com/chd/common/images/gallery/gallery1- - - _1024.jpg

Avoid the 3i. It doesn't even have balance shafts to cancel the 4-cyl vibration, nor the jet-like taillight styling:

http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/brunoluong/vwp?.dir=/Album+02&am- p;am- p;am- p;.dnm=red_sedan_8.jpg&.view=t

http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/brunoluong/vwp?.dir=/Album+02&am- p;am- p;am- p;.dnm=silver_sedan4.jpg&.src=ph&.view=t&.hires=t

Kirstie_H

FYI, we have a discussion on the new Saab:
The New Saab 9-2!

blockislandguy

Wantapassatnow, may I suggest that with your wish list that you consider a more upscale model as a Certified Preowned? Its kind of a win/win/maybe win: going CPO gets you a better car than you could afford new for less money and sometimes a longer warranty!

This week's ( 24 November) Autoweek has a great review of the new S40 which they say will be out in January with AWD to follow. They feel that the T5 with AWD and sports suspension will be a killer package. Here in New England where AWD rules, it should give the A4 Quattro buyer concerned about Audi reliability something else to look at. The problem though will be though that you start with a 23.5K 168 hp base vehicle (which itself won't be available for the first six months because they are bringing in only the FWD automatics at first) and then add the T5 package, leather, AWD and sports suspension IMHO you will be over 32K. Thats now the big leagues and I'm not sure the S40 can compete there.

jchan2

I guess I was right on the January launch date.

frenchy2002

The only 6 speed manual with AWD at 32K that I can think about would be the Audi A4 1.8T quattro, which is underpowered compared to the S40 T5 AWD. So I think the S40 will be definitely competitive. The other cars are either more expensive, or do not offer 6 speed manual or AWD, or the same level of equipment. Just my 2 cents.

qbrozen

The Subaru WRX STi fits that description (6-speed, AWD, ~$32K). But, of course, we're not talking near the luxury.

volvomax

From what I have heard a T5 AWD should sticker for less than $30,000. With a nice level of equipment.

blockislandguy

An S40 with AWD dressed up with leather and a roof will put a dent in the Jaguar X type's (modest) sales. At least here in the East, some people bought the X type because while AWD isn't part of the Jag DNA, it is appealing. Now an AWD S40 will put some hurt on Jaguar with the better Volvo dealership network, better pricing etc.

jchan2

forgot about that. the S40 could really have Jaguar rethinking about the next X-Type. Then again, the proceeds still go to Bill Ford any ways.

creakid1

Both the unreliable X-Type & the S40/V50 are derived from the similarly-designed excellent Euro-market-only Fords, the Mondeo & Focus II.

Hey, how about this upcoming '05 reliable...
http://www.autofiend.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&a- mp;a- mp;a- mp;a- mp;a- mp;sid=51
possibly available w/ AWD!

tiredofmanual

Chop off everything forward of the front tires, and nobody would know it wasn't a SAAB!

jchan2

look a lot like the Acura TSX.

frenchy2002

The new V50 is now on the Volvo-US website. Not much info. Mostly pictures. Nice car. Definitely some competition for the A4 and Passat.

jchan2

sure looks pretty elegant. The Passat, A4, 3-Series and C-Class wagons better watch out, as Volvo pretty much has it.

creakid1

http://www.carpages.co.uk/volvo/volvo_the_new_v50_part_1_04_12_03- .asp?switched=on&echo=343984934
http://www.carpages.co.uk/volvo/volvo_the_new_v50_part_2_04_12_03- .asp
http://www.carpages.co.uk/volvo/volvo_the_new_v50_part_3_04_12_03- .asp

jchan2

is pretty clean and elegant.

anythngbutgm

Anyone know if the combination will be available? I've read the V50 wagon will get the hot engine, with AWD but will not be available with the 6-spd

Same goes for the S40 sedan? I'm hoping they will offer the AWD/6spd with the sedan at least. I am really on a Volvo kick right now, and would love to see an S40R!!!

volvomax

Prob not till the fall.
All S40's will be auto to start.

jchan2

all S40's at launch will be automatic transmissions with FWD.

creakid1

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/?news/ae_news_story.php?id=42574
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/?news/ae_news_story.php?id=42555

jchan2

will not show up in the US. The closest competitor to the V50 is the 9-2X price wise.

sross

Is that what you're saying? If so, that sounds odd. Volvo currently sells both the S40 and the V40, so why not the new S40 and the V50? Do they think the XC50 is all we want in the US?
Any dealers know the inside scoop?

creakid1

jchan2

what I meant is that the Peugeot won't be popping up on dealer lots anytime soon. So the 9-2X is the closest competitor to the V50 in the US.

vcjumper

What about the a4 wagon

frenchy2002

and the passat wagon

creakid1

like the new Golf/Jetta V, will also share the S40/V50-type Control-blade 4-link rear suspension designed by the Focus engineers.

qbrozen

tough to know exactly what will compare since we don't have it here yet. But, by all accounts I've read up to this points, the V50 will be lighter, faster, more nimble, and cheaper than a 3.0 A4 Avant (based on a v50 AWD T5 variant). We'll have to wait to see if that holds true.

Volvo has a more luxo image than VW (otherwise VW wouldn't need Audi). But, in any case, the same advantages the volvo has over the a4 should apply to the passat.

jchan2

the A4 is close, but since when could you buy a Audi A4 Avant for the price of a V50? Doesn't the A4 Avant start at like $31K? And isn't that where the V50 will top out?

qbrozen

(that's why i said the v50 is cheaper)

jchan2

that still means that the closest competitor to the V50 will be the rebadged Saab 9-2X.

creakid1

& the upcoming Passat will look like a baby Phaeton.

creakid1

Check out pp120-122 of Jan '04 C&D about the new TL stick w/ limited slip differential:

"If anything, the limited slip exacerbates the existing torque steer, pulling on the wheel as if each pound-foot were a G.I. Joe action figure in a tug of war."

I'd avoid the FWD version of the new S40 T5.

qbrozen

I'm not sure what one has to do with the other. Different cars with different engineering means different results.

stevenh7

Hey just heard about the new S40. I have been loving Volvo for awhile and like the S60 but hate that black molding. This may be a good alternative. I have been looking at the 325CI but am reading a bunch of bad stuff about the 3-Series seats. I have a bad back and have always heard Volvo is among the best in comfort. Not knowing much about the new S40, is it in the same league as the 325?

creakid1

The Lexus IS300 & my '93 Camry SE sedan also have the thigh point far behind the front edge of the seat cushion! So forget about the reliable Japanese cars? ;-)

My brother took the European delivery of an '02 325xi w/ the optional sport package that includes the super-thigh-support(manual thigh tilt & extendable thigh length) sport front seats urged by me. Luckily the AWD xi doesn't go w/ the lowered taut sport suspension even w/ the 17"-wheel sport package. So he gets both the comfy seats & the AWD's Mercedes-ish comfy extra-long(by 1 cm) suspension travel.

The 2-door 325, N/A w/ AWD, only comes w/ the lowered sport suspension even w/o the 17"-wheel sport package.

At least the optional memory pwr seat now includes the thigh tilt adjustment not available for the non-sport seat prior to '03.

Thanks to the side airbags not attached to the seat, the dealer told me that I can purchase from the parts dept one manual cloth sport driver seat for "only" $1500, which already costs more than the factory-option $995 memory seating w/ both power seats or the $1100-1400 sport package that includes both front sport seats.

But factory cloth is not available in the U.S., & I also want to keep the comfier std suspension of the 325i 2WD sedan, so this is my only alternative -- Getting a base 325i w/ neither the power seats nor the sport package, & just replace the driver seat w/ the sport-cloth-seat accessory. I might even try to get that manual cloth sport seat w/ optional 4-way lumbar support, which, as a factory option, is only available for the much-more-expensive 330. But the 330's larger brake disc also requires the less comfortable 17" wheels, &, I believe, only the convertible can be equipped w/o the lowered taut uncomfortable sport suspension, but most likely also w/o those nice sport seats.

Anyway, I ended up changing my mind about getting a BMW.

The 325i has an in-line 6-cyl, neither the S40/V50 nor the same-platform Mazda3 has 6 cyl, but they all got 2-way lumbar adjustment w/ any engine. I, 5'11", find the Mazda3's front seat cushion relatively short like the BMW 3-series's non-sport seat, but sufficient in thigh height even w/o tilt feature.

stevenh7

So on the 325CI you would recommend getting the sports seat over the regular seat? How does your brother find the sport seat comfort? This is a hard one because the 325 Discussion Group includes so many issues with the seat, mostly because there is no lumbar support on the 325 but I don't know if these Folks are the exception or the norm as so many people drive the 325. Anyway, I have heard that the Volvo Seats are the best around. Do you think they would be putting the same quality seats in the cheaper S40 as in the S60/S80? I may hold off on a decision till the S40 comes out. Any idea when? I sound worried but I have had a Honda Prelude for 7 years and although the car is great, the seats are not good for more than 45 minutes. Shopping for a new car is the best !!

qbrozen

The S40 T5 will have about 40 more hp and 30 more ft/lbs torque even with one less cylinder.

Steven - you're info is right that volvo seats are some of the best in the business. Let's hope they stick with that formula on the new car.

As far as arrival time, you should be able to text drive them by early February.