I keep reading and reading reviews/opinions on the GX470 and the RX330. Ive narrowed down my choices to those two (I think). Im really stuck in the middle. Both have plusses and minusses. I really would like to find out if Lexus is adding stuff to the 2004 GX (goodies that the RX has already). Also, anyone know if they plan to change the rear door from swingout to lift? Thats a thorn in my side.
Pricing, at least in our market, depends on the equipment.
Premium Plus trucks you can get for about $1,500 off in our area.. maybe a touch below that depending on the dealer. Right now we seem to be doing $500-1K off as a rule on $41,478 330s.
But if it's a NAV... forget it. As I have said my salespeople have a lot more sold than we can get easily.. we're quoting 12 weeks. We're at MSRP, MAYBE $500 off... but that's like if you're a returning customer..etc.
bentwoodvolvo - Isn't it true Lexus will bring a the hybrid version of RX300 as a 2005 model? Any detail about it? Also, I wonder why dealer can offer discount on RX330 at this early stage. I got quote for high $39K for RX330 AWD with Premium Plus package. In the meanwhile, I got no luck on 04 Sienna... pay MSRP and don't know whether the dealer will have the 8-seater.
smg1062 - I don't know why Lexus put the rear swingout door on GX470 and the two pieces type rear door on LX470 (same on Land Cruiser). It is very inconvicent for a SUV. I saw one guy try to load stuff from the back of his RAV4 on city street. He can only get the rear door open half way. The rear liftgate on RX330 is just prefer, especially with the power liftgate (open and close). Not to mention, it can be a shelter when it is raining.
As I understand it (which may be wrong) the single biggest difference between the two is that the GX is a truck based vehicle and the RX is a car based vehicle. As our desire was for as car-like a vehicle as possible, we went with the car based RX. If your tastes/needs lean more towards truck like performance, then the GX would seem more appropriate.
But it seems to me that the only real difference is the drivetrain. The GX is basically RWD torque biased and in addition to the RX330 brake modulation type AWD engine torque distribution it has a true 4WD system for backup.
For me the one aspect I would dearly love to see in the RX is rear torque biasing.
The new 4runner (for which the GX is an expensive upscale duplicate) brochure implies that torque to the front wheels is automatically reduced when turning, something on the order of 50/50 down to 25/75, I think. Anyone know the truth of this feature and if so how is it accomplished?
Well, I originally wantd a truck-based SUV (I've wanted one for a long time). However, the new RX has some things that I prefer, like a rear lift up cargo door. Some other options on the RX are cool as well, which the GX doesnt have (did Lexus drop the ball, or did they leave out options on purpose?). If the RX had running boards, Id buy it. If the GX had a rear upswing door, Id buy that. If I could morph the two, Id have the perfect SUV. BUT, since I'm torn between these two, I may end up torturing myself thru the summer deciding. Maybe if I hesitate long enough, the 2004 GX will pop up. C'mon, guys, help me spend my money!!!!!!
Lexus GX470 (US) = Toyota LandCruiser Prado (Japan). They offer the Prado both three doors and five doors models.
smg - I think the RX330 is better looking than GX470 and thousand dollars less. Not sure why Toyota/Lexus don't offer running boards on both RX330 and previous RX300. Yes. I like the rear liftgate on RX, especially the power operated. And you will find it (GX) difficult for loading stuffs in the back. Read my previous post about the RAV4.
The Trac system (motor/pump) on my 92 LS400 will operate ten times within a fairly short period (up to 3 miles at 35MPH) and then will shutdown, Trac disabled, until next engine restart.
Just completed a Florida to Maine trip of 1650 miles, fully loaded with all our "stuff" for the summer. Came north on 95 intil VA. , then north east to I-81 and up through the Shenandoah valley into PA, NY, VT , NH and then Maine. Could get 26-27 MPG routinely on the road. Mileage dropped off to 25.5 or so going through the mountains of PA and VT. Set cruise at 75+ a little and let her roll! Transmission downshifted from 5th tp 4th fairly often in the mountains. Shifted smoothly, but was not happy pulling long grades in 5th gear with a full load. Not a problem, but I did notice the difference from my 4.7 V8 Jeep Grand Cherokee. That would pull any grade in top gear with no sweat. I guess the saying "No replacement for displacement" holds true. The ride in the 330 was superb - 450-500 mile days with complete comfort. Great car and am completely satisfied with it.
No doubt the Jeep would have pulled better up those long climbs, but what kind of mileage penalty would you have paid for the entire length of the trip? At 75 mph average I bet your 25-27 would have been more like 15-17, tops.
I just realized that the voice guidance would not lower or mute the cd/radio volume like the Pioneer system. It makes the direction hard to hear when you turn up the ML system. Did I miss the set up somewhere?
In an article by Bloomberg. com titled: "Toyota Plans to Double Hybrid Vehicle Line-up by 2006", said that it plans to introduce the hybrid Rx 330 next January in the US.
In the Bloomberg site click on "Japan".
The article also includes references to Nissan and Honda.
"Toyota sells three hybrid models including the Prius sedan, Estima minivan and Crown luxury car. The automaker said in January that it will release a hybrid version of the RX330 in the U.S."
I don't read that sentence as meaning we'll see the RX330 hybrid come Jan 2004 - but rather that Toyota released a statement back in Jan 2003 that one would be coming in the future.
I think the article is saying that Toyota announced back in January (2003) that they will release a hybrid 330. Not that they will release it this coming January (2004).
But they do note that Toyota is aiming to sell 300,000 hybrid cars by 2005. That would be amazing if they reached that goal.
Also that Toyota is considering selling their techology to other auto makers, including Nissan.
Has anybody had difficulty with rear visibility in the RX330?
When I drive my wife's current RX300, I am able to look over my right shoulder and see most of the road with a small blind spot where the rear right pillar blocks my vision.
During my test drive in the RX330, the triangular window in front of the right rear pillar is so small that I can't see anything through this window or the rear right pillar so my blind spot is much larger.
What is the experience of other people who have driven these two automobiles? The ML350 and the X5 appear to have significantly improved rear visibility over the RX330 (based on short test drives) but I hear bad stories on Edmunds about the reliability of these two vehicles. I'll probably go on another set of test drives before I make a decision.
...is certainly not great in the 330 and is a factor that must be considered when shopping. However, I drive the roads of DC and have been able to compensate for the reduced visibility with no problem. Only you can decide how important it is versus other vehicular factors. I was deterred by the reported reliability issues with the X5 and ML350, so they were not on my shopping list.
To JBaumgart and bodble2 - Thanks for the response. You are right, the mileage on the Jeep would have been much lower. As for breaking down - while the Jeep could be a pain in the butt with the A/C evaporator going bad, it never left me stranded on the road. I just opted for the great reliability and comfort of the 330. This is the best vehicle I have had for years.
I too find the rear visibility to be poor. I use the spot mirrors on the rear view mirrors anf this helps. I just have to be sure to use them every time. I can lose a very large car in the blind spot. I also find the large mirrors and the wide front pillar really cuts down on my side visibility as well. Have to be real careful to look to each side before pulling out. Still love the vehicle though.
You are fortunate indeed to be seeing $2600 off MSRP in the NWest. In the southeast (Atlanta)a dealer refused $2500 under MSRP for an 850+ miles demonstrator 2WD with the Premier package in Neptune Blue.Finally got a different dealer to price same type RX 330 with no miles at $1500 under MSRP. Lexus dealers around here have none on the lot.Everything is preorder.
I'm sure the larger Lexus suv vehicles have the swing out doors to prevent damage to them from home garage doors and parking garage floors when raising the door. These suv's are higher and would pose a problem in either situation. Gotta love Japanese ingenuity. The RX 330 rear door is c-shaped from the side to prevent the door from being too high.
The old Ford solution would have been much better, retractable glass, door swings open to the side or down, owner makes choice.
Easy solution to horribly painful helicopter noise too.
Dealer told me the only reason for the swing door and the lack of remote control of the rear window winglets on the GX was to distinguish it from the LX.
I am getting ready to take in my RX330 for its first service. I am having trouble removing the gas cap. It usually takes me a few tries. Am I doing something wrong?
Does anyone notice wind noice on the driver's side when travelling on the highway? The noise isn't constant or very loud.
Other than the above, I am enjoying my Flint FWD Nav/Lev RSES.
I don't like aftermarket rear DVD that uses RF signal for the audio. The sound quality will not be as great. In the case of Lexus, you are kind of wasted the ML sound system.
With aftermarket DVD, I don't believe you will be able to watch DVD on the front NAV screen (provided you are in Park with emergency brake on). I had no trouble getting my FWD, NAV/ML with rear factory DVD.
September is also what my dealer told me. My RX330 includes the so-called towing package, yet with no hitch. I was told it will cost about $400 to install the hitch. Is this a rip-off? My co-worker told me her Sequoia has hitch included standard.
Is the GX simply a dressed up 4Runner? I know the cabin/dash layout is different, and Toyota doesnt offer a rear DVD system. Are there other major differences, besides the $$$ ? I really do want a truck-based SUV, which would eliminate the RX from my list. HOWEVER, that vehicle does have some things I like over the GX. OOOOHHHHHH, what to do. I'm gonna throw myself down the stairs...........
I am trying to decide between a MDX and a RX330. The RX is a nice vehicle...more plush than the MDX. The previous gen RX300 was deemed a chic vehicle. Does the new RX330 still hold that rep? What's your opinions for this guy?
Buy the RX330 and be done with it. You'll only be sorry if you end up in a situation wherein you need true AWD, RWD, or snowchains, very rare circumstance indeed.
The RX330 is VERY "chic" and the ladies absolutely love it too. Kidding aside why does this issue keep coming up, are some of you afraid of showing your feminine side?
I agree with wwest on this. Who cares, if YOU like the vehicle? I was parking our 330 on Saturday and as I exited I heard remarks behind me of "very nice truck, and sweet." I turned and it was too young guys leaving a mustang. So, you be the judge.
Personally I'm going to say no - it's not a chic vehicle. Mine's black with black interior with the performance package so it does look a little sportier. I'm 33 and single so if I thought it was a chic car I wouldn't have gotten it! Where in Alabama are you? I'm in Mobile.
As to comparing the RX and the MDX, I'd say the RX beats the MDX hands down unless you want a ton of space in the back. The RX has more bells and whistles and has much nicer leather and actually has real wood. The MDX uses plastic wood.
Interesting story about uptake of NAV systems and how they may ultimately give way to handheld systems (PDA or cell-phone-based systems) which give you walking directions to locations.
I hope my future PDF or cell phone doesn't has a 7" screen. Actually, I think in five years all luxury cars will have a 7" -10" LCD screen that hooked up to a PC which enable us to send emails via voice recognition and listen to the content from web page.
It would be used to clear the air since the electrostatic charge that builds up on the screen will attract and collect airborne dust thereby removing it from the air. Obviously, safety conscious members of Town Hall will not be VIEWING anything but the road while driving and we'll all breathe a little easier! :-)
We are experiencing climate control problems with our RX 330. The system blows excessive cold air from the upper vents. We are having to set the system at 78-80 degrees when the outside temps are in the 60's. Even with these settings and outside temps, its still not a comfortable climate inside the car. We previously owned a RX 300 and set our climate control on 73 and never had any problems. Is anyone experiencing this problem?
The article on PDA with GPS capability was a typical "infomercial" to promote that particular PDA. In fact, Garmin makes a true PDA with built in GPS and mapping software, much slicker than the one mentioned.
As to the question whether or not PDA with NAV will replace the NAV on my Lexus -- wonder if the author of that article ever thought of carrying with him a Discman or Walkman instead of having an audio system in his car? It will be a LOT cheaper and he can listen to music while he is walking!
Incidentally, I finally received my Silver on Gray RX330 last week after waiting 9 weeks. Loving every minute driving it. As for the NAV on the car, suffice to say that I had been using handheld GPS for hiking, boating and driving for a few years; the comment I have above sums up my impression.
It is true that the NAV system on the RX330 is not flawless. On occassions, the NAV directions were not optimal but still took me to the destination. The routing algorithm actually appears to be more intelligent than Microsoft's Street and Trip. My opinion to those sitting on the fence deciding whether or not to get NAV for their RX330 is that the system is indeed very useful. It is meant to inform and assist, and it does an admirable job provided the user understands its limitations. Just being able to tell exactly where one is on a real time map is worthwhile to have it. (I fail to see how one can get lost with the system.) I personally will not buy another vehicle without this option.
Thanks to everyone for their opinion on the "chic" or "chick"ness of the new 330. I won't let preconceived notions affect my decision. Lexus makes great vehicles.
smg1062 - Lexus GX470 is an upscale version of Toyota LandCruiser Prado (JDM). Lexus RX330 = Toyota Harrier (JDM). Toyota 4Runner = Toyota Hulx Surf. These are three different vehicles.
I can't really think of anyway/anything having audio embedded in the vehicle would interfere, constantly, with.
Embedded GPS would only work in this manner if like DVD video, it were only accessable from the rear seat.
Personally I think a law should be passed so that moving map displays must be surpressed when the vehicle is in motion. voice guidance only.
And yes, I do know that can be done with the current systems, which I often do, but if video surpression was required then maybe the ancillary function displays would still be available meantime.
I will assume that your climate control complaint has to do with after the system has "settled" around the temperature setpoint and not the initial cooldown mode.
IMMHO the solar radiation sensor has an undue weight on the mode of the A/C. Bright sunlight will almost always put the system in cooling mode even on the coldest winter day.
Put a piece of paper over the solar radiation sensor and try it that way.
Personally I have added switches to my 01 RX, 92 LS, and 01 C4 so I can prevent the A/C compressor from running when temperatures are too, <65F, low to warrant its use.
Comments
H E L P!!!!
Premium Plus trucks you can get for about $1,500 off in our area.. maybe a touch below that depending on the dealer. Right now we seem to be doing $500-1K off as a rule on $41,478 330s.
But if it's a NAV... forget it. As I have said my salespeople have a lot more sold than we can get easily.. we're quoting 12 weeks. We're at MSRP, MAYBE $500 off... but that's like if you're a returning customer..etc.
Bill
Give the RX330 the same AWD/4WD system as the GX and "no contest"!
smg1062 - I don't know why Lexus put the rear swingout door on GX470 and the two pieces type rear door on LX470 (same on Land Cruiser). It is very inconvicent for a SUV. I saw one guy try to load stuff from the back of his RAV4 on city street. He can only get the rear door open half way. The rear liftgate on RX330 is just prefer, especially with the power liftgate (open and close). Not to mention, it can be a shelter when it is raining.
Craig
But it seems to me that the only real difference is the drivetrain. The GX is basically RWD torque biased and in addition to the RX330 brake modulation type AWD engine torque distribution it has a true 4WD system for backup.
For me the one aspect I would dearly love to see in the RX is rear torque biasing.
The new 4runner (for which the GX is an expensive upscale duplicate) brochure implies that torque to the front wheels is automatically reduced when turning, something on the order of 50/50 down to 25/75, I think. Anyone know the truth of this feature and if so how is it accomplished?
smg - I think the RX330 is better looking than GX470 and thousand dollars less. Not sure why Toyota/Lexus don't offer running boards on both RX330 and previous RX300. Yes. I like the rear liftgate on RX, especially the power operated. And you will find it (GX) difficult for loading stuffs in the back. Read my previous post about the RAV4.
That would pull any grade in top gear with no sweat. I guess the saying "No replacement for displacement" holds true. The ride in the 330 was superb - 450-500 mile days with complete comfort. Great car and am completely satisfied with it.
In the Bloomberg site click on "Japan".
The article also includes references to Nissan and Honda.
"Toyota sells three hybrid models including the Prius sedan, Estima minivan and Crown luxury car. The automaker said in January that it will release a hybrid version of the RX330 in the U.S."
I don't read that sentence as meaning we'll see the RX330 hybrid come Jan 2004 - but rather that Toyota released a statement back in Jan 2003 that one would be coming in the future.
Your mileage may differ...
But they do note that Toyota is aiming to sell 300,000 hybrid cars by 2005. That would be amazing if they reached that goal.
Also that Toyota is considering selling their techology to other auto makers, including Nissan.
When I drive my wife's current RX300, I am able to look over my right shoulder and see most of the road with a small blind spot where the rear right pillar blocks my vision.
During my test drive in the RX330, the triangular window in front of the right rear pillar is so small that I can't see anything through this window or the rear right pillar so my blind spot is much larger.
What is the experience of other people who have driven these two automobiles? The ML350 and the X5 appear to have significantly improved rear visibility over the RX330 (based on short test drives) but I hear bad stories on Edmunds about the reliability of these two vehicles. I'll probably go on another set of test drives before I make a decision.
You are fortunate indeed to be seeing $2600 off MSRP in the NWest. In the southeast (Atlanta)a dealer refused $2500 under MSRP for an 850+ miles demonstrator 2WD with the Premier package in Neptune Blue.Finally got a different dealer to price same type RX 330 with no miles at $1500 under MSRP. Lexus dealers around here have none on the lot.Everything is preorder.
Ray
Does anyone have an aftermkt. DVD player? What do I lose.
Easy solution to horribly painful helicopter noise too.
Dealer told me the only reason for the swing door and the lack of remote control of the rear window winglets on the GX was to distinguish it from the LX.
Does anyone notice wind noice on the driver's side when travelling on the highway? The noise isn't constant or very loud.
Other than the above, I am enjoying my Flint FWD Nav/Lev RSES.
The RX330 is VERY "chic" and the ladies absolutely love it too. Kidding aside why does this issue keep coming up, are some of you afraid of showing your feminine side?
As to comparing the RX and the MDX, I'd say the RX beats the MDX hands down unless you want a ton of space in the back. The RX has more bells and whistles and has much nicer leather and actually has real wood. The MDX uses plastic wood.
http://www.business2.com/articles/web/0,1653,50392,00.html
n. stylishness, elegance
v. cleverly stylish
adj. stylish, elegant
"The RX 330 is very chic."
"Chic people drive it"
on the other hand...
Chick: slang for a young woman
"The RX 330 is not a chick car, it's a chick-magnet."
"Chicks dig the RX 330 and the manly men who drive them"
There...I feel better. Don't you?
It would be used to clear the air since the electrostatic charge that builds up on the screen will attract and collect airborne dust thereby removing it from the air. Obviously, safety conscious members of Town Hall will not be VIEWING anything but the road while driving and we'll all breathe a little easier! :-)
tidester, host
As to the question whether or not PDA with NAV will replace the NAV on my Lexus -- wonder if the author of that article ever thought of carrying with him a Discman or Walkman instead of having an audio system in his car? It will be a LOT cheaper and he can listen to music while he is walking!
Incidentally, I finally received my Silver on Gray RX330 last week after waiting 9 weeks. Loving every minute driving it. As for the NAV on the car, suffice to say that I had been using handheld GPS for hiking, boating and driving for a few years; the comment I have above sums up my impression.
It is true that the NAV system on the RX330 is not flawless. On occassions, the NAV directions were not optimal but still took me to the destination. The routing algorithm actually appears to be more intelligent than Microsoft's Street and Trip. My opinion to those sitting on the fence deciding whether or not to get NAV for their RX330 is that the system is indeed very useful. It is meant to inform and assist, and it does an admirable job provided the user understands its limitations. Just being able to tell exactly where one is on a real time map is worthwhile to have it. (I fail to see how one can get lost with the system.) I personally will not buy another vehicle without this option.
I can't really think of anyway/anything having audio embedded in the vehicle would interfere, constantly, with.
Embedded GPS would only work in this manner if like DVD video, it were only accessable from the rear seat.
Personally I think a law should be passed so that moving map displays must be surpressed when the vehicle is in motion. voice guidance only.
And yes, I do know that can be done with the current systems, which I often do, but if video surpression was required then maybe the ancillary function displays would still be available meantime.
IMMHO the solar radiation sensor has an undue weight on the mode of the A/C. Bright sunlight will almost always put the system in cooling mode even on the coldest winter day.
Put a piece of paper over the solar radiation sensor and try it that way.
Personally I have added switches to my 01 RX, 92 LS, and 01 C4 so I can prevent the A/C compressor from running when temperatures are too, <65F, low to warrant its use.