By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our
Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our
Visitor Agreement.
Comments
I think Discount Tire charges a little more for a rotation/balance, but nothing near the price of what Lexus charges.
Smith67, I will try and see if my local Toyota service department will be as accommodating as yours about the 5,000 mile service intervals. Thanks for the tip.
Here's the link if anyone wants to check out your future maintenance costs: http://www.edmunds.com/products/maintguide/index.html
As far as a simple ($30+) oil change service, I doubt they inspect all the items you described. I just don't believe that these items need to be inspected every 5000 miles. I'll pay for the full "5K" service probably at the 20K or 25K interval, while saving some $$ on the other. I'm guessing the 30K service will be $400 or higher. (Sigh!)
Here are my opinions on synthetic. Bear in mind that I am not a mechanic, nor do I change my own oil or are interested in doing so. However, I have used both synthetics and synthetic blends and have read about the subject.
In general, synthetic blends are better for older engines, around the 50k to beyond the 75k mile range. Supposedly, full synthetics have great loosening and softening properties that might knock the sludge that is holding your seals or pistons tight in an older engine, and actually cause a decrease in power or even increased oil consumption in older, dirtier engines. This is why synthetic blends are recommended here.
On newer engines like in our RX's, full synthetics would be great after an initial break in period of 5,000 to 7,500 miles with regular dino oil. Some people use synthetics to extend their oil changes and therefore, trips to the service station. How long you can extend the oil changes is a topic of hot debate. European manufacturers and even Corvette, recommends 15,000 mile intervals when using synthetics. IMO, this seems pretty long. Even though synthetics can go much longer than dino, without breaking down and losing viscosity, an oil filter is still an oil filter and can only hold so much gunk. I have heard of people who try and address this issue by replacing the old filter and then topping off with new synthetic to replace what's lost during the oil filter switch.
Some people think synthetics are a way to save money, even though they cost up to three times as much as dino oil, because they are planning on extending their oil changes more than three times. I would look at synthetic as more of a way to cut down on one or two less yearly trips to the service station and therefore, saving time rather than money. Synthetics are also a way to ensure your engine will run trouble free for way past the 100k mark, if you are planning on keeping it for a long time.
If you lease your vehicle or buy new every few years, then save your money and stick to regular dino oil. It definitely works and we got along with it just fine, before Mobil 1 came along! And if you have the time to stop by Jiffy or Sears or the dealer every 3,000 miles, then good old dino oil will do just fine.
Love the oil wars :-)
Engine Oil - A slippery subject Part 2
Synthetic motor oil
Steve, Host
We are looking to replace our '97 4Runner Limited 4WD. Its been running great but we are entering the 'maintenance' phase where I need to shell out of my pocket for any maintenance :-(.
We are looking at both the RX330 FWD (We moved to Orlando from Cleveland and don't really need the 4WD/AWD anymore) and ES330, among other vehicles. Part of me wants the RX for the driving height. Having gotten used to the 4Runner height, its tough to go back to a sedan.
For us, it basically boils down to decent fuel efficiency while enjoying luxury (another reason I'm getting rid of the 4Runner - 14-15 miles to a gallon just doesn't cut it anymore for us).
From what I've read in both discussion forums (RX and ES), both are excellent vehicles, with traditional Toyota/Lexus smoothness and solidity. What kind of efficiency are you guys getting on the RX? KBB says 20/26 for FWD, which is pretty good I think (certainly better than my 4Runner). Are you guys really getting close to 25/26 in highway driving?
All things being equal, I don't mind spending the extra 3K-4K for an RX330. I say 3K-4K because I only intend to have leather (which is standard in ES and disappointedly not in the RX) and HID.
Any suggestions? Advice?
Thanks
Pulisubs, on RX mileage, my RX FWD is 3 weeks old and I'm getting 22 mpg avg. (town/suburb./hwy) and 25-27 Hwy IF I use 89 octane. (My mileage was low the first 500 miles, then got much better.) 87 octane is getting around 24-25 highway. I'm glad I didn't get the AWD, but it was tempting. I went with the FWD because in my area at least, AWD's with DVD ALWAYS come with the 2K+! Nav pkg....footnote: The factory DVD is great and fully integrated, also plays CD's or radio and has built in 110 AC converter in rear compart. for game boxes.
Anyway, we have a FWD RX330 with over 12K miles on it. We typically put 87 octane in it. With a combination of neighborhood, urban, and freeway driving, we typically get between 21.5 and 22 mpg. I think 26mpg may be achievable on the highway, as long as you don't try to go to fast. Out here, we have 75mph speed limits, and the added wind drag (common with SUVs) reduces our fuel economy when cruising at 75-80mph.
If you think you need the cargo space, go with the RX. If you want a change of pace with a very nice mid-sized car, go with an Acura TL! I really like our RX, for the sport wagon that it is, but I don't care much for the ES as a sedan. It's too much like a Buick.
Its a bit late for the Sienna, we already have a '04 Quest in our stable, which we love BTW.
doubletrack:
The mileage looks same as our Quest, which is encouraging.
I would have gone for the DVD but we already have a dual screen DVD in our Quest. And that's going to be the family vehicle.
cotmc:
Surely love the weather down here. Although I didn't grow up in the Cleveland area (grew up in the country that's ostensibly taking away all the jobs these days), but spent 10 years there. Certainly miss the fall, and just a little bit of the white stuff but won't trade the sunshine for anything.
I did consider the TL 6-Spd, the G35 6-Spd and a used 5 Series.
I need to test drive the TL but I'm not a big fan of Acura's interiors in general. I believe that since we spend more time inside a car than outside, I should like the interiors better. And no manufacturer does better in interior quality than Toyota/Lexus, IMHO.
The G35 topped Car & Driver (or was it Motor Trend?) comparison tests but to me, the steering wheel, the interiors look too much like our Quest. So, wanted something different.
I'd have loved to own a BMW 5er but in general their reliability seems to go downhill as the miles keep piling. Since I don't want to spend 40+K on a new one, I'm not left with many choices.
But I tend to agree with you. I test drove an ES300 a few years ago when we had owned a 97 V6 Camry. I didn't find any difference except for the luxurious decor inside.
We plan to test drive the Lexus this weekend. I'll post more then if I have some questions.
All the previous posters have given you great reasons to go with the RX over the ES. This is no surprise as this is the RX forum. If you also posted in the ES forum, I'm sure that they are giving you good reasons to go with the ES. I bought the RX330 to replace an LS400, and was apprehensive that I would sorely miss the smooth and quiet ride of the sedan. Fortunately, this has not been the case. The RX330 has turned out to be the most versatile vehicle we have ever owned, after having owned many European and Japanese sedans, three SUV's, and a sports car. It is without a doubt, the most pleasing to drive of any car I have ever owned. I say pleasing rather than most exciting, quiet, smooth, agile, or quick. The RX is like a jack of all trades but master of none. It does so many things so well: it is quiet enough, quick enough, smooth enough, agile enough, luxurious enough, roomy enough, utilitarian enough, all while being handsome enough.
The only pros I can think of for the ES are the lower maintenance, gas bills, and price. However, the RX has historically held its value better than the ES.
If you didn't already have the Quest, I would say it would be difficult to give up the utility of an SUV for a smaller sedan. However, since the Quest is your family vehicle, the ES330 might do just fine. But then again, so would the RX330 but with more panache.
Finally, I would earnestly ask myself, "Will I feel a pang of regret every time I see an RX330 coming down the road, as I drive wistfully by in my ES?" Good luck and happy hunting.
I had an ES as a loaner, and while driving it, I honestly thought our RX had a richer looking interior, as well as a better sound system.
By the way, the RX is primarily my wife's car. My own driver is a used BMW 5-series, one of the options you mentioned. Mine is a 2000 528i Sport which now has 54K miles on it. I bought it 2 years ago with 29K miles. Only problems I've experienced were very minor: A bulb and a sensor needed to be replaced. Even so, I would never feel comfortable owning this sedan after the warranty expires; which is why I bought it as a Certified Pre-Owned vehicle from the dealer, which provides me with extended warranty coverage up to 100K miles (or 6 years from In-Service date). It's a great car that I thoroughly enjoy driving, but I sometimes find the cabin and trunk to be rather small for this class of sedan.
I completely agree with you on the G35!
My skiing buddy happened by while we were there and we wound up visiting the "other" SUV's. Knowing she was dealing with two huckers from the slopes, Faye figured it was time to make a ladylike retreat. Good move on her part as every vehicle we inspected required a firm grip on the A pillar handle to scramble up.
J
I think you hit the nail right on the head. That might actually settle it for me. It increasingly seems like RX for me.
Thanks for all the help. I went through as much in detail as I could these board/forums and gained invaluable information.
Then you get to have that pang of regret watching that especially beautiful ES330 go by.
Human nature.
If we didn't have winters here I'd be buying an LS.
Looks like pulisubs won't, either.
The LS430 is a very attractive luxury sedan.
The ES330 is a .... hmmm...
Did I mention the LS430 is a very attractive luxury sedan?
I know you would not regret getting an RX330, especially one with a later build where Lexus will have fixed all the small gremlins of earlier models. By the way, just at this last fill up, I have gotten my best gas mileage to date on combination freeway/city driving. It was 19 mpg. Finally, the BMW 5 series is a great car but only the '99 model has a better than average reliability rating from CR, last I looked.
Wwest, I don't think you would feel a pang of regret watching that beautiful ES330 go by if you were in your awesome LS430! You make a good devil's advocate.
Cotmc, my sentiments exactly, regarding the interior of the RX versus the ES. Also, the stereo probably sounds better in the RX because acoustics must be improved in the larger cabin.
About the BMW 528i, you have echoed my fears about getting a pre-owned Beemer that is not CPO. I have toyed many times with the idea of getting a pre-owned 5 series but remembered the hefty maintenance required by my last German car. However, it is a beautiful vehicle in every aspect, and there are many possibilities when we are ready to replace our other vehicle. Cotmc, you are driving the best of both worlds!
To be curious, as you are an MB, C class owner, did you ever consider getting an M class SUV?
Both FWD, same engine. The only two advantages the RX would have is ride height and cargo capacity. He already has cargo capacity in the van and I (were I living in FL)would offset the ride height for the quietness, superior comfort and fuel economy of the ES330/Camry any day of the week.
And no, where I live I would never have any pangs of regret driving an LS430 (RWD, quiet, comfort in the extreme, and RWD) and seeing the most beautiful ES330 (FWD) going by.
Did I forget to mention the ES is FWD?
Likewise, I could never describe the ES as having "superior comfort" over the RX330. I had an ES330 as a loaner, and I was glad to trade it back for our RX after the service was completed. The RX has a nicer interior.
My ES vs LS comparison was tongue-in-cheek, as everyone could probably surmise. The ES vs RX comparison is indeed more valid, but I seriously don't think many RX330 owners will care enough about a couple less dB of road noise or an additional 3mpg of fuel economy.
On a more serious note (you can tell I have just returned from 3 days of great skiing), gardencar, I did try the M320. It drove like a truck, but handled corners nicely. Quality ratings were the key factor which had us drop it early in the search. They are pretty poor for the M series.
Btw, Willard, quality short falls (mainly electrical) also apply to our C320. You definitely do not want to trade for your fine machine.
John
I would not likely find any fault with the handling characteristics of a C320 (except maybe on snow and ice?). I do like RWD on cars. Really. That's why I drive a BMW.
Be careful if wwest appears to accept your trade. Last I had read, Willard owns an older (2001?) RX300. And don't expect him to have an RX330 to trade to you anytime soon. He had recently reported that we convinced him to buy a new BMW X3! (You got it -- a RWD biased AWD system!)
By the way, the very best on-line entertainment was provided by the comedy team of wwest and jeffmust2, who I dubbed the King of Town Hall sarcasm. I enjoyed his wit. Don't know what happened to him...
I can think of more advantages than the two you mentioned, in addition to what cotmc already pointed out. The RX has AWD option, which can come in pretty handy during a tropical rainstorm that Forida is famous for. The RX also has greater towing capacity than the ES. The RX also has a roof rack. One last thing, unlike the ES330/Camry siblings, no one will ever mistake the RX330 for a Highlander.
Thanks in advance.
But I stand by my analysis, were I living in FL and didn't really need AWD, or even the RXes symbolence thereof, the ES330 would be my first choice if restricted to the RX otherwise.
Wouldn't one of those tricycle gears out front be more prone to ground loops? j/k'ing!
Steve, Host
I feel they are dangerous under these circumstances.
That, of course, is a personal opinion.
Good luck on your choice - and you won't go wrong with the RX
Sorry to slap you on the wrist, but PLEASE, let's try to stick to the topic at hand: the ES330.
mfullmer: Ordering a Lexus from the factory seems to be a rare occurrence. I may be wrong, but it seems most of us purchase directly from dealer inventory, incoming stock, dealer allocation, or dealer trade. Perhaps having a factory in Canada will provide more opportunities to custom order an RX330?
The factory allocates the cars to the dealers. These allocations are (in my dealers case) put on square pieces of paper on a board. The allocation is for a RX330 FWD or AWD and a build date.
The dealer tells the factory how it wants the vehicle configured before a certain cutoff date. Fortunately the cutoff date for the 3/8 built AWD one was the Monday after I ordered it. All they had to do is fill in the options and it was done.
I just wanted to clarify that it wasn't an order specified by me, but an already allocated vehicle that I chose early enough to specify the configuration.
Not to worry! I sent him a TOU letter! ;-)
tidester, host
cotmc's comments about generally ordering out of North American dealer stock is supported by our local retailer as well. They were quoting a 2 week (standard configuration) to 4 week delivery scale in Canada at this point. A factory order from Japan (for example the multi-panel moonroof unit we were interested in) was running into 3+ months.
johngreis, thank you! Finally there is someone else taking issue with the HID's. I agree with you 100%. They are great in the city, but out on the highway, they are easy to outrun. The most dangerous situations are mountain driving. I posted several pages ago how I kept outrunning my HID's coming down the winding, twisty roads of the St. Helena Mts. one night. I had to use my high beams, frantically switching back and forth for oncoming traffic. I've never had to use my high beams with halogens in the same situation. It is distracting, to say the least, having to take some fingers off the wheel to disengage the high beams, especially when negotiating treacherous mountain roads without guard rails. One slip of the wheel could send you plunging over a cliff! I wonder if there is a solution for this?
Oh yeah, before Willard or someone else sends me this smart aleck retort, I know you can always just slow down, but it's still aggravating.
Luxury - HIDs are brighter and whiter than halogens. They also use less energy than halogen and last longer. What people are talking about is that they throw light a shorter distance.
European cars have been using HIDs and Xenons for many years. There you have many, many other factors including more grazing livestock in roads, no street lights, higher speeds.
Then again, that BMW would cause several oncoming cars to "flash" me at night, as if I had my brights on. (No, I didn't. Really.) We have never had anyone flash us while driving our RX330 -- not even during spring break, unfortunately.
What would be nice is when one has on high beams -auto dimming when a car approaches in the opposite direction which is an option I had on my Lincoln many years ago.