Saab 9-2X

regfootball

Saab's Michael Mauer on media.gm.com

"The Saab 9-2X needs to look as aggressive as its driving capabilities," says Mauer. "Additionally, even though it is a functional 5-door vehicle, it shouldn't look like a traditional hatchback. Therefore, we spent a great deal of time making sure it had a strong face and sleek Scandinavian lines."

YOU REBADGED A FREAKING SUBARU....IT DOESN'T HAVE 'SCANDINAVIAN LINES'!!!!!!! WILL YOU SAY ANYTHING FOR YOUR PAYCHECK? JUST ADMIT ITS A JAPANESE CAR WITH A SAAB BADGE AND MOVE ON!!!!! WHY TRY TO SUGAR COAT IT!?!?!?!?!?!

EVERYONE AND THEIR FREAKING DOG CAN TELL ITS AN IMPREZA WITH A NEW GRILLE.!!!!! MY GOD DO THEY THINK WE ARE ALL BRAIN DEAD?

its not the car I am against, its the continual marketing BULLSTUFF from GM and its completely soulless corparate morons who check in with the PR idiots 3 minutes before a speaking engagement and read off a teleprompter.

Just like the "new" "crossover sport vans".

My God, THEY ALL THINK WE ARE A BUNCH OF IDIOTS.

I like the idea of a WRX masquerading in Swedish drag......WRX is a good car....BUT FOR CRYING OUT LOUD DOn'T TRY TO LIE ABOUT IT.

DON'T INSULT THE PUBLIC'S INTELLIGENCE WITH A BUNCH OF MADE OF JIBBERISH!

vcjumper

Now that the WRX sedan has had its face redone, I think I like it more than this Saab. I don't really like the WRX wagon looks either though.

nippononly

the WRX hatch better than the sedan, but I'm hatch-biased!

Agreed, the new front end plus the standard 16"ers from Soob look a darn sight better than the glued-on Saab front end and those wild rims.

regfootball

yeah that WRX has scandinavian looks.....hehe

merc1

That was one hell of a rant. I agree.

I can't help but think we haven't seen the worst of it yet. Just wait until the Trailsaablazer debuts!

At least the Saab hatchback concept is good looking and much more a true Saab.

M

ateixeira

Now that I look closer, the entire center console looks lifted out of a Forester. Look at the climate controls. It's nothing new, just parts bin Subaru stuff.

So they gave it a slight nose job for the Saab corporate "face", then used a Forester interior, and the taillights from the pre-2004 WRX.

The Forester's interior is a little nicer, IMO, but only slightly.

-juice

nippononly

Saab have GM's parts bin to use? Might as well have used that. At least it would have differentiated the car a little more from a Subaru.

logic1

to make substantive changes. Subarus have always been too unique to affordably swap other GM brand pieces into them.

The next WRX/9-2 will be planned to share from the ground up. There should be more palapable differences between the next generation vehicles.

ateixeira

Yep, everything metric for instance.

Imagine Saab dealers, once the Trailblazer clones arrive, they'll have to have every tool size imaginable.

The only thing we've seen Subaru get from GM so far is OnStar. They even bailed out on the idea of borrowing a platform for Subaru's 7 seater.

-juice

logic1

might use the Solstice platform for a vehicle. I am not certain how concrete the plans are, however.

robr2

Just wait until the techs Sven and Lars get a look at chip upgrades, catbacks, induction systems, "tuned" tailpipes, and big spoilers. Traditonal SAAB buyers typically aren't adding those sort of mods.

"Yah Yah vee see, but no varranty for you."

wheelz4

The front end does look Saabish but the back end needs more work. As suggested above, they should've blacked out the "D" pillar. Also, they should've made the tailights wider...ie extended them over to within an inch or two of the license plate cut-out. Not perfect, but it would've been a step in the right direction...

ateixeira

Solistice looks interesting, but I'd hate to see Subaru start using clones. Yuck. They sell a Traviq in Japan that is an Opel Zafira clone.

One potential vehicle mentioned was the B9 Scrambler concept. I don't see how that would be cost effective, given the Subie would get AWD, a hybrid engine, and an adjustable suspension. What exactly would they re-use from the Solistice?

Please don't!

-juice

harlequin1971

With the apparent backlash building, I will be able to buy one at discount prices by year end...yippie.

I will take a chop-shop Impreza at cut-rate prices, thanks very much, especially with a better interior (grade of materials) and a better face.

Can Swedes speak Japanese? Don't care. I still think this is a vehicle that will merit a test drive and careful consideration...but then, what do I know? I was all ready to buy a Volvo S40, another pretty face without any fan base.

regfootball

"There was not enough time from concept to market
to make substantive changes. Subarus have always been too unique to affordably swap other GM brand pieces into them."

a- take the extra time so the result isn't so ridiculously obvious

or

b- don't bother

I doubt Saab really needed to rush the 9-2 to market. A better plan would have been to offer some value editions of the 9-3 or do a hatchback version of the new sedan and call it the 9-2.

I mean, the 9-2 as it is is fine because the Subaru WRX is a sweet ride.....but for cryin out loud give us a real Saab interior and don't try to make like you designed an all new car.

This is what the press release shoudl have said....

"we took a WRX because it was an awesome car and decided we needed to offer it available for sale through our Saab retail channel. We feel the WRX with slight mods is a wonderful vehicle that would be an attractive product to market to potential Saab customers as well. The two brands share some unique commonalities."

nippononly

amen to that!

It is nauseating the way they talk about "product development" - what product did you bozos develop? You just went out and struck a deal to buy cars from someone else!

and this: "And being one of the first entries, we intend to shape that segment." is fairly revolting too. Uh, I'd say the car you BOUGHT from Soob was ACTUALLY one of the first entries, duh.

jchan2

are currently on sale in Sweden- the 1.8 litre 9-3 models. Find this out by visiting Saab of Sweden's website. I don't know the actual address, but I've been there before. I just forget.
         A hatchback version of the 9-3, I think, would sell quite well. You'd win your Saab loyalists back who are saying that the 9-3 isn't unique anymore and gain some new customers who want a Saab but want a wagon and can't afford the 9-5 Linear.

regfootball

these marketing and PR people as well as auto exec's mistake the buying public as a bunch of idiots.

even my dead grandma can tell the saab 9-2 is a WRX with tan pieces inside.

ateixeira

Keep in mind Saab's sales numbers are doing very well right now the new 9-3 in the lineup. Didn't they just have record sales, IIRC?

I don't think they'll bring the hatchback here any time soon given the sedan is doing much better all by itself.

-juice

jchan2

just bring over value editions of the 9-3 and make the 9-3X wagon development a top priority over the 9-7?

r34

I wonder if it will be better to bring the 9-2X to a Subaru dealership for services. I think they may know the car better than Saab dealers. How can a Saab service guy be familiar with a Subaru in several months ? The advantage to bring the 9-2X to a Saab dealership may be free warranty work but there is no guarantee they will do the job right.

Now I wonder if buying a WRX is better than buying a 9-2X....

rsholland

the next-generation WRX/9-2X will offer different body configurations from one another. Make the 9-2X a 2-door coupe, or a roadster, or something not offered by Subaru.

Bob

nippononly

that's a great idea! :-)

I hope that happens too.

rsholland

I think the only way for a Saab/Subaru alliance to work is for both companies to offer products that don't step on one another's toes. I'm very concerned about this, as I see greater Saab-Subie ventures in the future.

Both companies want to be perceived as "premium" carmakers. So how do you do this without competing against one another? Offer products that the other company doesn't.

Bob

rsholland

I read that the pricing will range from $22K - $30K. $30K for a spiffy WRX? When you probably will be able to buy a (much nicer!) Legacy turbo for about the same price? We'll see...

Bob

robr2

Don't forget that Saab offers maintenance with product purchase, roadside assistance, loaners, etc. The Saab has to sell for more than the Soob.

ateixeira

Would have been interesting to see Saab make the 9-2x a coupe and/or roadster.

FWIW, Subaru offers 3 years of roadside assistance with every new car. The 3/36 and 5/60 warranty is pretty good, too.

Only the LL Bean model gets free service though.

For $30k, that's too close to an STi, you'd have to be mad not to choose the STi.

-juice

jchan2

the one main advantage would be lower insurance costs, as more careful drivers will chose the 9-2X whereas young kids will crash WRX cars, making WRX premiums higher than 9-2X premiums.

nippononly

agreed! 'Twould be madness not to get the STi if you are going $30K anyway! :-)

BUT, there isn't an STi hatch though, right? So if you are hooked on that body style, you might have to stick with the Saabaru/WRX.

rsholland

http://194.18.30.201/92x/main_v1.html

ateixeira

Good point about the hatch.

Just noticed one more thing - the steering wheel is indeed like the one in the STi, and exactly like the one going in the 2005 Legacy. It's definitely parts-bin stuff, albeit very nice.

-juice

yogi29035

I have been to the mountain of SAAB, USA and I have seen the "burning bush" of the SAAB 92X... and what I saw was exactly what everyone else saw... it's an Impreza WRX! No wonder that for months the SAAB guys only put a front end photo out on this car, since from any other angle, it's obvious what this car really is.

I damn near bought a WRX just a couple of months ago until I found out I couldn't get the options I wanted (no all-weather package on the wagon, and the sales guy had never HEARD of a strake kit). I might just get the 9-2X, though, because it has traction control, better for all weather driving.

....but its still a WRX.

jchan2

the person announcing it at the beginning did admit they worked with Fuji Heavy Industries to pull the car to market so fast.

buddhabman

Yea, what did you expect, with a 1 1/2 to 2 years to market at most. They changed the hood, the lights, the front dash pieces, the leather seating trim, probably some sound material, all stuff they can do at low costs. Moving the ignition placement is a little more cost. Look at the bright side you can get all the Sube upgrade parts, plus the Saab warranty hopefully. Although I would buy it either at a Saab specific shop or a shop that has Subaru also. This way they have sent someone for tech training.

nippononly

no traction control available for WRX? Didn't know that.

harlequin1971

I know it is disappointing, but I think the 9-2x is exactly what it needs to be, for now, a rip on the WRX with spiffy interior bits and a better looking face.

This will increase Saab sales and should allow Sube to make a few more cars (won't cut into Sube sales as much as the overall sales increase).

It is a win-win. Saab fans get AWD, reliable zoot and the normally luxury touches. Sube fans get a chance to see what happens for the next generation WRX when Sube takes the WRX upmarket.

I still may have to consider the Legacy Wagon as a contender, but I would take the Saab variant over the Sube variant. Retuned suspension, better looking grill, nicer interior (where I have to spend my time) and a chance that Saab will end up subsidizing the models to move them at year end.

So much to look at coming in the next 2 years. Audi A3 (possibly with R32 engine available). BMW 1-series. Ford Mustang. Saab 9-2x. Dream car Lotus Elise (too much for me? for now it is). Better diesel VWs.

Lots of fun in the car world. Instead of just attacking the worst aspects, try looking at the bright side...choice is good, competition is good. Most of the complaints about the Subes design have been addressed by Saab designers for a small chunk of change. Let the games begin.

I won't know for sure until I drive one. When will they hit the showrooms?

aldehyde

According to the video clip on saabusa.com, the 9-2x will hit dealers July 1 as a 2005 model. The video clearly shows that one of the 9-2x's being driven around has a moonroof... something Subaru declined to put in the WRX because they said it would reduce the strength and stability of the roof and hence the car as a whole for brisk maneuvering... I guess Saab either found a way around that or has decided Saab buyers won't drive quite as aggressively as Subaru buyers...

ateixeira

No, Subaru only offers traction control on the Outback VDC. I'm sure that'll change soon.

WRX sedan actually does now offer a moonroof, started with the 2004 model year. All weather package was also added. Oddly, both on the the sedan only. So if you want a wagon with both, you'll have to get the Saab.

Saab announced the 9-2x in April at the NY show, so it may have been done in less than 18 months, even. If it hits showrooms in July, could be as little as 15 months from that announcement.

-juice

jchan2

maybe the reason for having no moonroof or all weather package was to protect the Saab 9-2X. I think both are offered on the 9-2X. That would be smart, as people who want a WRX wagon with a sunroof would have to be sent to the Saab store.

yogi29035

On my current 2000 Impreza wagon, I did get them to install a moonroof, but it was a big deal since it wasn't an "official" option on the wagon. It's great having the moonroof, but then again I've never rolled the thing over, so I don't know if structural integrity was affected or not. It's weird how Sube decides to make some things available as options on the sedan (weather package, moonroof, leather) but not on the wagon. Maybe you're right that they were protecting the 92X.

The info regarding traction control being available on the 92X I got from the Edmund's website, but there's no reference to it on the SAAB site, so I hope that information is correct.

...I know the whole thing with SAAB is that it's supposed to be more upscale than Subaru, but does anyone else think that the WRX interior (especially those black seats)is actually way cooler than the interior of the 92X?

ateixeira

That creates a little differentiation, yeah.

But that could hurt WRX sales. It's in its 3rd model year now and really only got a face lift for 2004.

This may be personal taste, but I prefer the Saab's interior. They actually used a lot of Forester parts bin stuff.

The WRX shares parts with the Impreza TS, which starts at $15k street price, so there are some compromises there.

The Forester starts at about $4 grand higher than that. There are more soft-touch materials in that interior. It's not a big difference, though.

Saab could have made heated leather standard, and used thicker/wool carpets, but looks like they didn't.

-juice

yogi29035

40 IMAGES OF 92X INTERIOR/ EXTERIOR/ EVERY ANGLE

BTW: If you're REALLY hungry for lots of those 92X images, you can access about 40 of 'em by taking the url and changing the numbers before the "c" in the address listed below. The first one is 03400C.JPG and the last one is 034039.(Congratulations and credit go to the guy on the NASIOC board listed in my previous msg.for finding this site, BTW)

Here's the first one...change it to 401C, 402C, etc to view them all...Go nuts!

http://194.18.30.108/smo/smopics/0/03400C.JPG

ateixeira

Side view is the least flattering. Front is the best IMO.

-juice

harlequin1971

for sure. No way around it, people in the know will shop both and make their best decisions based on their priorities. I have a strong feeling that a "Saab-tuned" suspension will be about making the WRX drive more like a Legacy on steriods to begin with. Tone and attitude will be the difference makers here, not any substantive differences. Kind of like when the Laser/Eclipse/Talon model was released, or the upcoming fleet on GM SUV-alikes. You have the same basic car, with some notable differences, to meet the tastes and preferences of the buying public, which can be fickle and downright silly at times.

Saab will cut into Subaru sales and Subaru might just steal away some Saab loyalists as well. In the end, both together will sell more cars, which is what they both want.

Having both the Saab 9-2x and a Subaru WRX to test drive might mean you are less likely to also make time to drive the 20-30 other possible choices in that price range and just buy the nice car you are testing right away! WRX sales will fall (already were bound to) and 9-2X sales will make up that difference and then some, that has to be the formula to make this partnership worth doing. In the meantime, Saab may very well be sharing some ideas with Subaru on their design strengths for future improvements. Certainly, Saab has made some of the more enjoyable FWD cars available in the market. Subaru owns AWD. Let's get them married and turn out some killer Saabs with reliable AWD options and upscale the Subarus to compete with Mazda, Toyota and Honda interiors, a game they are a step or two behind in most people's assessments.

I like Subaru, always have, but the interiors are not the nicest place to spend a day driving around town in. My Hyundai Elantra GT is a more luxurious inner realm than an Impreza has ever been. Heck, my Elantra GT reminds me quite a bit of my old Infiniti G20. Nice interior, not enough pep, lower than expected mpg, and some concerns about resale...

jchan2

I've always liked both Saab and Subaru. There is a discussion over in News And Views (don't know if this is archived already) about Saab and Subaru.

ateixeira

I think you're right, people on the fence about an Impreza wagon might step up to a 9-2x.

Prices are supposed to start at $25 grand, that's high considering I've seen Impreza TS wagons with street prices of $15.2k with the same 2.5l engine. OK, content on the Saab will be a lot better, but that's a huge difference, even if the Saab's sell for $22k or so.

Even then you can get a WRX wagon with a turbo for less than that. So Saab is definitely aiming for one step up in price.

-juice

jchan2

prestige, for those interested in "buying" popularity at the office parking lot.

derekgdw

Subaru dealerships appear to be hit or miss as far as quality of service and overall treatment of customers from what I've experienced and have read from others. Same could be said for Nissan and Toyota I would assume.

Nissan and Toyota's luxury brands (Infiniti and Lexus) on the other hand typically treat their customers like gold.

My thinking is maybe you could expect the same when you buy a Saab branded Impreza? I have no idea where Saab ranks as far as how their dealerships treat their customers. One would hope, considering the cost of entry to obtain a Saab, they would be up there however I will admit I haven't done much research into this.

For some this may not be an issue but for many others (like myself) it would be.

Other than that though, I must say, I saw the picture of the Saab 9-2X and thought "Okay it's my car up until the front fender . . ." They did some to the styling to make it look nicer and more upscale but they should've done a bit more . . . Subaru did a good job making the interior look nicer however. The Forester dash kit fit in very well. ;-)

It's a first attempt though and not a bad one in my opinion as it does look more upscale than a Subaru branded Impreza. I would say that if Saab offers a longer warranty on the car than Subaru does (which they appear to) AND if Saab dealerships do in fact treat their customers about as well as Infiniti does (A great warranty means nothing if the manufacturer refuses to stand behind the vehicle after all) I would definitely give this version of the Impreza some consideration over the Subaru version.

jchan2

I'd think they treat their customers well- 9-3 buyers are especially tough about dealer service. (people)

ateixeira

They have to offer something of substance for that extra cost - $25 grand is a lot more than an Outback Sport would cost.

Warranty and service are just a start, maybe free maintenance, too.

-juice