BMW 1-Series

fedlawman

If I were shopping for a 1-series, there's no doubt I'd choose the 135i. However, I do have a problem with a couple of the comments previously posted...

The 128i being lighter and better balanced would likely make the 128i the "better handling" car from a neutrality point of view (I haven't driven one yet so I'm only guessing). Also, for street and track driving, it can be more fun and challenging to drive a "momentum car" at 10/10ths than to drive a more powerful car.

Also, the smaller brakes on the 128i will never be a problem on the street. Panic stop distances are basically unaffected by the size of the brakes, and the lighter weight of the 128i may actually give it a slight edge. Larger brakes have more surface area though, so on the track, they are more fade resistant.

Yes, 0-60 in 4.8 seconds is quick - quick enough to make my heart flutter. Knowing that the 135i exists would make it impossible for me to not spend the extra money for it. On the other hand, 0-60 in 6 seconds is hardly anemic - supercar territory just a few years ago.

I can totally understand why someone would choose the superior balance and save a little money by choosing a 128i - in my opinion, it's the purer sports car of the two.

bodble2

'It's nice to effortlessly do what some cars are a burden to accomplish."

I just think the 128 would not likely "burden" to accomplish any driving task one would reasonable expect to encounter. I think the fact that the 135 is almost an overkill overshadows the credentials of the 128. One needs to remember that not too long ago, the 328 won a C & D sports sedan comparo, and the 128 arguably should out-perform the 328.

Yes, I know, as in the case of money and sex, one can never have too much hp, but the 128 is probably as much car as, if not more than, most sane enthusiasts would need.

(Of course, I'm not conceding that, budget permitting, I would not spring for a 135 :P )

cdnpinhead

". . .a 128i - in my opinion. . .the purer sports car of the two."

I couldn't agree more.

Does the 1-series come with the abominable run-flat tires?

tagman

You never second guess yourself that you may have paid for something you don't need, or something with diminishing return for your extra $$?

Not really. I'd much rather have a feature I might have ended up not using very much, than to NOT having a feature I wished I had purchased!

If I always drive my car at 10/10th, or 9/10th, then the extra $5k for the 135 would probably be a bargain, but we all know most people do not drive their cars anywhere near the limit.

Whatever percentage you apply is fine... but in the end even if you drive at 50%... 50% of a 128i's performance is still less than 50% of the 135i's. C'mon, now... anyway you spin it, there's still a whole bunch more to the 135i to experience.

Heck, even when I get on the freeway, I don't have to go one single mph over the speed limit in order to accelerate faster and feel the exhilierating feeling. The same holds true for many driving scenarios. I've discussed with others at length on another forum about the reality of driving within all the legal limits and still experiencing the enjoyment that can come from driving a car that has great performance attributes.

TM

tagman

You know, at the end of the day, a car is just a machine

Cars are special machines... there are few machines that we can actually interact with, with so much excitement and passion.

Tell the NASCAR folks that their cars are just machines. :surprise:

TM

tagman

Man, I really like most of your post... a lot... BUT...

The suggestion that the 128i has superior balance is a stretch. There is a very slight front/rear weight distribution difference between the 128i and the 135i, true, but not enough to amount to a hill of beans. Heck, for that matter the 135i is within 1.1% weight distribution of the M3.

Also, panic stops are rare. Most braking is done in normal driving, where better brakes can make a difference.

The weight difference between the 128i and the 135i is a mere 121 pounds.

Suggesting that the same model car outfitted with smaller brakes and less power is the "purer" sports car is pushing the definition. On the other hand, no one is suggesting that the 135i is the purer sports car either. So, neither one should get the bragging rights to that title over the other, IMO. In reality, they are essentially the same sports car, but with different capabilites.

I would venture to say that a Porsche Carrera and Carrera "S" are both "pure sports cars", even though there are performance differences. To me, the same holds true for the 1-Series.



TM

bodble2

"...there are few machines that we can actually interact with, with so much excitement and passion."

computers, big-screen LCD TVs, Blackberry, 3G cell phones, Wii game consoles, AK-47 ....just a few machines that people seem to interact passionately with. :P

"Tell the NASCAR folks that their cars are just machines". I dunno about that one. People in the profession may just view them as "tools of the trade".

tagman

You must be just messing with me. Are you telling me that there's nothing special about cars? That they are barely more than the Maytag appliance you referred to earlier?

Blasphemy!

TM

fedlawman

An additional +/-100 lbs sitting over the front axle is more than "a hill of beans." Plus the bigger brakes and bigger wheels add unsprung weight, which pound for pound, has more influence over handling and braking than body mass.

Again, I haven't driven them so I'm only talking theory, but I believe that the lighter nose and unstaggered front/rear wheels must give the 128i crisper turn-in, less understeer, and more responsive steering. I'm not saying it's a dramatic difference (far from it - most people probably wouldn't notice), but I do believe the difference is there.

tagman

I'm not saying it's a dramatic difference (far from it - most people probably wouldn't notice), but I do believe the difference is there.

That's because the difference IS there, and you are right that it is not a dramatic difference, and most people wouldn't notice. But, if we are here taking notice of the smallest differences, then surely we should also take notice of the eye-popping differences... the ones that most people WOULD notice.

So, we've identified one such small difference in the weight of the two vehicles. The increase in weight for the 135i is all of 3.5%.

But, consider that the 135i has an eye-popping 30% increase in horsepower!
It also has a massive 50% increase in torque! The 135i's front brakes are 12.75% larger in diameter!... And even larger in terms of their corresponding surface area. You referred earlier to the 0-60 times. If we visit those numbers we would discover that the 135i is 25% faster getting to 60mph! Now, those are all some significant numbers, and I'd say they make for some profound differences.

So... I think it's safe to say that it's going to be those very large profound differences that ultimately are sure to be the ones noticed the most when driving the two cars as a comparison.

TM

circlew

Does the 1-series come with the abominable run-flat tires?

But, of course!

Regards,
OW

circlew

When it comes to cars, I respect your knowledge and capabilities. You are one of the best teachers for me over the last 3 years. Please drive these 2 and let us know what you think.

In my non-professional opinion, the added cost for the power and brakes alone make the 135i a screaming bargain for someone like you who WOULD track the car at least 6 - 10 times per year but only you could make that personal choice and probably could get as much from the 128 on the track as well. Coming out of the turns without TC/DSC would give the 135i and edge that IMHO is undeniable.

I tend to purchase as TM does...give me the added performance up front.

Regards,
OW

fedlawman

I mostly agree with you.

"The increase in weight for the 135i is all of 3.5%."

Using a percentage here gives the illusion of an insignificant difference. I still say 120 lbs is 120 lbs - mostly right over the front axle. Of course, you're talking to someone who removed the air conditioning from his M3 to shave 30 lbs off the nose .

As for power, I'm with you. The difference is dramatic and intoxicating. The 128i is quick - the 135i is a rocket.

On the street, who cares about another 1" diameter on the rotors? You'll never fade either system.

Another minus (in my book) for the 135i is the twin-turbo engine itself. If I were a leasing/short-term ownership kind of guy, I wouldn't hesitate to choose the 135i. But if I was looking for a long-term relationship with a 1-series, I wouldn't touch the hot running, no dipstick TT with a ten foot pole.

Don't take it personally Tag. The 135i is a car that I could easily own and I'm jealous that you have one. If I were in the market for a car right now, it would be on my very short list (again, I wouldn't choose the 128i either - simply because of the power deficit).

fedlawman

I don't know if I deserve the compliment, but thanks. Yes, I do want to drive them.

I agree the 135i is the better bargain. If I owned a 135i though, I wouldn't track it (OK, maybe just once to see). It's too heavy and luxurious to subject to that abuse. No, I'd probably leave it mostly stock and enjoy it's combination of sport and comfort on the street.

qbrozen

It's too heavy and luxurious to subject to that abuse.

LOL!

I'm not laughing at you ... kinda laughing at myself. I track my 3750lb G35X.

bodble2

People have a special relationship with cars because (for most people) they perceive their cars to be an extension of their personality, accurately or not. Also, because cars are constantly on public display, people view them as a vehicle (pardon the pun!) for personal advertisement for whatever qualities they want to project (real or imagined), be it wealth, sexiness, machismo, coolness, etc. And of course, the high cost of a car is also a factor in creating this "passionate" relationship. I would hypothecate that if your refrigerator costs $40K and you can customize it with personal options and lug it around in public, you may also develop a "passionate relationship" with it too!

Now the question is why is it mostly men that bond with their cars. I guess it's the machismo ingrained into the male psyche by years of propaganda advertising. And I guess clothes and shoes to women are what cars are to men.

As for the question, am I messing with you? Yeah, maybe, since I'm part of that herd that has an inexplicable bonding with cars. But when you cut out all the rhetoric and analyze the nuts and bolts (again, pardon the pun), that is what it is.

tagman

you're talking to someone who removed the air conditioning from his M3 to shave 30 lbs off the nose

That says it all. I understand.

I had a Lotus Elise two years ago, and I can genuinely appreciate the whole idea of "less is more".

TM

tagman

Good post.

No doubt that the selection of a vehicle can be one of the most emotional, subjective and irrational purchases that folks can make.

TM

circlew

No doubt that the selection of a vehicle can be one of the most emotional, subjective and irrational purchases that folks can make.

So is a pair of shoes! If it weren't for women, no Malls would exist, only car dealers!

Regards,
OW

tagman

So is a pair of shoes! If it weren't for women, no Malls would exist, only car dealers!

HA HA!! Ain't that the truth!

Car dealers... and if ya' don't mind... sporting goods stores and/or Bass Pro Shops!... LOL!



TM

bodble2

Don't forget Best Buy!

venture

What kind of E46 do you have?

Here's the story - Last time I was looking for a driver, the wife was watching every move. Being the considerate guy I am :P I made sure I got the Steptronic so she could drive it. As long as I was getting an automatic transmission, I figured I might as well get the 325i, which I did.

Now - get this - she has driven the car exactly 3 times in a little over 3 years and hasn't driven it at all in the last year and a half. The only times I could get her to drive it was when I had to take her car in for service.

I'm not making that mistake again.

I guess that's more than you wanted to know.

venture

I stopped in at one of the two BMW dealers in my immediate vicinity yesterday. (one is 30 miles away and the other is 32 miles away - in completely opposite directions). They only had one 128i A and no 135i's, which I knew by looking at their web site beforehand, and the other one didn't have any.

Anyway - I pulled in and parked. Got out, looked at the Sedona red 128 sitting near the front door, then wandered the lot a while. After about 10 minutes I went inside. One salesman was sitting at his desk with his white shirt and tie on. He saw me, but he didn't move. I'm pretty sure he was alive!

They only had 2 X5's and a 5 somethingorother sitting in the showroom. The place was almost bare. I looked at all 3 of them figuring someone would ask me if I needed help. No one did.

I went back outside and wandered the lot again, walking right past the window where the salesman was sitting at his desk. He looked at me so I knew he WAS alive.

After 10 more minutes I got in my car and drove away. Weird.

nyccarguy

You have no idea how many times I hear that exact same story! The guy gets the car he want with a slushbox because the wife can't drive stick. The wife drives the car twice a year and the guy says "it is an automatic that you can drive like a stick."

nyccarguy

fedlawman: you'd probably adjust your tire pressure on your E30 M3 after a big dinner to compensate for the amount of food you ate...lol!

I'm sure I'd be perfectly happy with a 128i coupe as my daily driver. With a (soon to be) 2 year-old and a 6 day a week job, tracking my car isn't even on the radar screen. I've never attended a HDPE or Driving School so a 128i would probably be overmatched compared to my average driving skills.

That being said, there's the "you only live once" way of going about things and if you're going to buy 1 car every 10 years, you should stretch your budget and get the car with the ability to pass pretty much any car at anytime and cut your commute in half. Hence the 135i.

Fedlawman: I'm curious to see how the Twin Turbo N54 holds up over time as well.

tagman

Oh yessirree Bob... Electronics chain like Best Buy is a must!

TM

ivan_99

I went back outside and wandered the lot again, walking right past the window where the salesman was sitting at his desk. He looked at me so I knew he WAS alive

Exact thing happened to my co-worker; he spent a long time at the dealership looking at some pretty high end vehicles (M6)...but nobody seemed to want to initiate a conversation.

tagman

WTF? Did you pull up in an old beater? Were you wearing an old smelly t-shirt?

Must be the new "no-pressure" sales strategy... you're actually sold, but you don't even know it yet! :surprise:

TM

bodble2

I'm almost certain BMW salesmen are trained not to initiate, so as to not appear desperate for sales. In the past year, I have visited 3 BMW dealerships. At 2 of them, after a few minutes a salesperson did stroll over and asked if I needed assistance. At the 3rd one I asked the receptionist to summon a salesperson for me. But the interesting thing is I left my name and cell phone # with 2 of the salespersons, and neither gave me a follow-up call. One answered my email enquiries, but not exactly in an eager manner. I emailed him prior to the 1-series intro, and indicated that I would be interested in a test drive when the cars were available, and to this day he has not called or emailed me! The saleman with whom I did not leave my phone # did not ask me for it. It must be BMW's no-pressure sales tactic. On the other hand, at least 8 out of 10 Honda/Acura/Toyota/VW salesman would ask for your phone # before you've walked out the door. I don't know about salesmen for the Big 3 domestic brands. I never go there due to their apparent policy of using red-neck junior college drop-outs for salespeople. :mad:

I normally can't stand overly attentive salespeople (try going into a Tommy Hilfiger store, for instance), but I think I would appreciate some sign of interest from the BMW sales guys. :sick:

circlew

Don't even bother. Go in and request a test drive. Make no indication if your interested or not. Go home and negotiate over the internet and by phone. I worked my deal in 2005 between 2 dealers and got my price.

You shouldn't waste your time with a floor salesperson.

Regards,
OW

venture

Did you pull up in an old beater? Were you wearing an old smelly t-shirt?

I was driving the E46. I guess "old and smelly" is in the eyes of the beholder.

This particular dealer is know for being a little *snooty* which is why I bought from the other one last time.

Here's a good one - I mentioned previously about my friends new '08 535i. He bought it at the snooty dealer. After he ordered the car I mentioned that the Premium Package was free as noted on the BMW web site. When he called they balked about giving him the $2,200 back. He insisted - and they insisted they wouldn't. Since he gave them his Sequoia as a trade a few weeks earlier, he didn't have much leverage.

He did manage to get all-weather floor mats and an update to his X5's nav. :sick:

venture

Exact thing happened to my co-worker; he spent a long time at the dealership looking at some pretty high end vehicles (M6)...but nobody seemed to want to initiate a conversation.

I'm going to wear a tuxedo the next time. :shades:

kominsky

I have a similar tale... I got a manual tranny (which my wife can't/won't drive), but one time I had an automatic loaner car. I let my wife drive it on a local twisty road. When we got to the end I asked her what she thought. Her reply... "It's not bad, but I'd rather drive my Odyssey".. It was at that point in time I lost all respect for the woman.

bodble2

Yeah, but be careful if she ever asks you for your opinion on her shoes or handbag!

roadburner

Here's my "Ignored at a BMW dealer story"- from back in November 2006:

While we were visiting in Cincinnati we decided to check out the CPO inventory at Jake Sweeney BMW as well as The BMW Store. I had checked both of their web sites and each of them had at least one car I was very, VERY interested in. I was prepared to make a simple deal; 100% cash, no trade. We first stopped at Sweeney's, where we pulled up in my wife's 2004 X3 and walked over to the CPO lot to find the two 540i Sports that I had seen on Sweeney's website. We walked across the lot and through the CPO showroom and received no offers of assistance- not counting the lot jockey who asked me if I wanted the keys to a car I WASN'T looking at. I guess jeans, a BMW CCA golf shirt, and a BMW F1 jacket don't meet Jake's dress code. After about fifteen minutes of this I decided enough was enough; as we were leaving we walked by a sales guy who had been ignoring us while he chatted on his cell phone. As we passed him he heard me tell my wife that we were moving on to the BMW Store. So NOW he asks, "You mean you folks haven't been helped?" "Just forget it." I replied. His response? "Have a nice day. We're busy too, you know." Nice try, but I'd just walked through the CPO showroom and there was maybe one customer in the whole place, and two bored looking sales guys sitting at their desks. I wrote a letter to the CPO sales manager that detailed the entire incident and that was ignored as well. Worst of all, when we did get to the BMW Store the car I was interested in had just been taken out on a test drive- and ended up being sold to that customer... :mad:

bodble2

It's car salesmen that give car salesmen a bad name! :P

I mean, they don't come by their bad reputation idly ... they work hard for it!

venture

"Have a nice day. We're busy too, you know."

Don't you just love it when they have a smart remark after they have ignored you for so long?

I'm going to start carrying a banana cream pie with me when I go car shopping. :surprise:

bodble2

I think some car salesmen, because they get to wear a suit, and sell expensive toys, forget that they don't rank too much higher than a pimp, in most people's eyes.

tagman

I recently had the fuel pump replaced in the 135i. The check engine soon light had come on, and after they diagnosed the car, they said it was the high pressure fuel pump. There was only 1944 miles on the car when this happened!

The more I looked into it, the more I discovered that BMW keeps fuel pumps in their parts department like light bulbs and fuses. They actually know they are bad and will need replacement. Sooooo many of them are replaced, and this problem has been ongoing for quite some time.

Supposedly, this latest generation of fuel pump, which has a long part number ending with 881, is supposed to be the real fix.

We'll see.

TM

hpowders

The fuel pump has been a problem area for the BMW twin-turbo 535i and 335i vehicles. Now I see it has hit the 135i's too. I am not surprised.

Sorry to hear the fuel pump thing happened to you.

houdini1

Hmmm....it doesn't sound too bad but that bit of bad luck could have been much worse.

hpowders

My diagnosis is you either have developed a rather serious case of goiter or you have been on the wrong end of a high pressure fuel pump. Only the fuel pump injury happens to be covered by your HMO.

You think the fuel pump is a problem? Wait until the piezo fuel injectors screw up!

More problems with BMW twin-turbos than any other BMW's. Not worth it, IMO.

hpowders

the 128i comes with the relatively trouble-free, proven inline-6, it would be the smart choice for most consumers. The additional power of the 135i is not needed in the USA, unless one intends the vehicle for track use.

As others have sadly discovered, a 335i or 135i attracts old smoky with very little effort.

I have yet to see any 1 Series on the road, either in Florida or New Mexico. Seems to be very exclusive.

flightnurse

Well thanks Dad for telling me what car to buy...

Living in Phoenix and traveling to Northern Cal I see the 1 series. The problem I think it, from dead on front view there is no way in telling if you ae looking t a 1 series or 3 series. I'm currently in Santa Cruz Ca and have seen 3, 1 series all of them been 135i.

hpowders

Uhhh....

Nobody was "telling" you anything. I was merely offering a suggestion that most folks would probably be better off with the proven trouble-free inline 6. You want potential fuel pump and fuel injector problems, get the 135i.

Don't forget to call Mom. :P

bodble2

"You want potential fuel pump and fuel injector problems, get the 135i."

If it is leased, then it'd probably be alright.

hpowders

The problem with that is:

BMW leases are unattractive at this time. BMW wants you to buy their vehicles, offering 0.9% financing on most, if not all 2008 models through October 31st.

A 2008 335i coupe can be bought and financed at 0.9%. The same vehicle when leased will have a finance charge of 5.76% with a horrible residual to add insult to injury.

The message is clear: BMW does not want to be stuck with a surplus of used vehicles coming off-lease.

I find the 0.9% BMWFS offer on most 2008 BMW's "tempting."

FYI: The 0.9% is being offered on the entire 2008 BMW model line; that means all 1 Series models too!

fedlawman

Since BMW has changed it's focus from leasing to buying, maybe now they will start building cars that are engineered to have more than a 4-year lifespan.

I can dream anyways...

hpowders

The trick to buying a new BMW is to order one with as few electronic gimmicks as possible-no premium package, no steptronic transmission, no i-Drive, ordering the reliable inline six, etc;

BMW finds itself in a bind. They were the ideal leasing company as few of us would take a chance on long-term ownership. Now with the focus on buying, they will have fewer future customers and their bottom line will take a big hit in the USA. Seeing a BMW on our highways, I'm afraid, will soon be a rare occurrence several years hence.

For the very brave or the hyper vehicle-traders among us, the entire BMW line of remaining 2008's (including the entire one Series line) is on sale for only 0.9% financing through BMWFS.

cdnpinhead

"BMW does not want to be stuck with a surplus of used vehicles coming off-lease."

Fair enough, but how is this year different from last or the one before? They've been bringing in any number of vehicles over the past several years off leases for residuals that were nowhere near reality.

When, and why did they finally get religion?