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The original Windstar was a success out of the box. Great ride, looks, safety (which is still exceptional). Can't touch its cruising range either - best in class by a hundred miles at least. But........it was a reliability disaster after the 36k warranty expired. Only time will tell if this vehicle is a real winner for the long haul.
In the better cars from BMW and Mercedes, even the most non-reliable cars (and they're really bad) has an excellent satisfaction rating.
So they're 2 separate ratings. I posted my above article about the satisfaction part.
Besides, recent studies shows that even the Windstar was improved on reliability and long term use. And most issues with the early Windstars were engine and tranny problems (the main component of the vehicle) which has since improved a lot, and especially now on the Freestar, Ford made sure there shouldn't be any issues. I think that's the only advantage of an old-tech engine, that they had so much time on their hands to fix all problems.
I really hope the Freestar will be reliable after 36k miles... If not it will be a disaster for Ford...
My leased Windstar is now over 30K miles, and no major problems. Better than expected before leasing...
The children will be in car seats so no big deal; However the second row seats are a little low, but quite comfortable. The front seats are very good, even for longer trips.
besides that, I think you'll have a pleasant ride with the Freestar.
Have a great trip!
As for our SEL 4.2 we now have 2,200 miles and have been averaging local driving at 17 mpg and 22 highway mpg. I believe it's all in the way individuals drive.
In city driving I was getting between 14-16 mpg.
Overall we love the van and it has plenty of space for me, my wife and 2 children
http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=7506
http://www.blueovalnews.com/2004/recalls/recall.04s24.freestarhub- s.htm
This story struck me as a bit odd since my Quest is a Ford assembled van and I always heard that the power window switches were sourced from Ford (and they look similar to my friend's F150). You have to pull up on mine to get the window to raise.
Steve, Host
Most recently on 8/20/04 on our return from a 2 day min-vacation the car suddenly lost power steering control and immediately heavy smoke billowed out from beneath. Owner (husband) got out to inspect after pulling over to side of road and found flames shooting from the under carriage. Immediately ordered wife to get out. Some belongings were removed from rear as 911 was being called. Emergency personnel arrived (police) and extinguished flames showing. Upon arrival of Fire Dept. and after they pulled away the dash cover in the engine compartment, it was found to still be on fire. A fire extinguisher was used once again putting the fire out. The battery was disconnected and towing to the closest Ford dealer was arranged.
The car was in the repair shop 22 days. I had to return to NJ from MD to drop off rental and pick up Freestar! Took an entire day!!!
Since this has occurred we have learned several things about this model. A recall for a possible defect in the axle/hub has been issued on it by Ford. Additionally a source from inside Ford (a friend) says he checked the VIN# on our van and the dealership knew it was defective and was advised to not sell until defect was remedied. This defect being a Technical Service Bulletin to all service departments regarding the power steering hose not being seated properly hence causing possible loss of power steering control, smoke or fire.
The vehicle should never have been sold to us as is. The vehicle was brought back to the dealer several times for service and replacement of molding. There have obviously been numerous opportunities for this known defect to be corrected and it was NEVER addressed.
We have filed a formal complaint (5 days ago) to the manufacturer in Detroit and have not received word yet as to the status. We feel this vehicle is a Lemon! It has been riddled with problems which were at first just annoyances and cosmetic. Now it is safety (steering and wheel could fall off). We don't want it back. We want to have them buy it back.
We hired a Lemon Law firm to handle this case since we feel we have a lemon. It seems there are other's out there as well.
We like the van for many reasons (comfort, safety, features) but feel there are serious safety issues. This is unacceptable since the main reason we chose it was the safety rating was high.
A vehicle as new as this one should not have one problem after the next regardless of the severity. Ford needs to take a harder look at this model!!
thks again.
But I think your dealer is the one to blame, not Ford, since they asked the dealers to take care on the recall.
It is also interesting to me that you never heard of the recall before. It was widely announced, and in many magazines (as well here on Edmunds) it was talked about it.
i got 18-19 and 22 23 at 70-75 mph and up to 26 with '01 windstar(26 mph at 55-60 mph) on same course and for >40k miles.
i suspect you hv bought by now. what hv you found?
I have had massive problems and the dist rep engineer is lying and ford refuses to do anything. they are terrible to deal with. I am waiting to see what happens. I would like to talk to you my email sndthomas422@cox.net if you can email me your phone number. thanks
My friends with Aerostars disagree completely. The Aerostar had more room for passengers and luggage.
GM Trio (extended models) had better crusing range with their slightly smaller fuel tanks but much better gas mileage.
Pros: Features for the price, fold in the floor 3rd row seat, good build quality, good ride and handling, minimal wind noise, plentiful interior storage.
Cons: The 4.2L V-6 is unrefined at times and a bit on the thirsty side, 3rd row seat is a bit cramped and bottom cushion is too close to floor for long term comfort.
Suggested Improvements: Get the NVH guys working on the engine, use less hard plastic in the interior, especially the door panels, improve the mileage 10%, raise the bottom cushion of the 3rd row seat by about 4"-6", add reading lights and audio jacks to the 3rd row seating area, get rid of the floor mounted parking brake, make the 3rd row seat a split folding design.
Reliability is average; Here is the full comment CR writes on the Freestar (2005 Buying Guide):
The Freestar is a freshened version of the Windstar minivan. Like its competitors, it features a flat-folding third-row seat. The 2 V6 engines are still noisy and road noise is pronounced. Handling is more responsive, but the ride is unsettled. Fit & Finish is unimpressive.
The Mazda MPV and Nissan Quest have sub-par reliability, and therefor not recommended. I'm almost sure the 2005 Quest will be better, since Nissan took good care of the early production problems, as you can see in the Quest board.
The Chrysler & Dodge vans are also recommended, with average reliability as well, and good driving dynamics, but "falls behind competition".
Japanese designed vehicles NOT RECOMMENDED? Such heresy at Consumer Reports.
Last week I went to my local Ford dealer (Sunday AM before they opened) and looked at all 15 2004 Freestars they had. All were built between 9/03 and 3/04. None were built 4/04 - 8/04. I suspect they just stopped ordering them once they did not sell well. They had a couple 2005 Freestars, that were all shipped on 09/09/04 (the first week of the 2005 model year). One guess is that the models shipped in the Spring of 04 (with free factory DVD) sold quicker ... anyone else have an idea?
Another indication that sales are low is that you just don't see very many on the road. I've seen dozens of the 04/05 Sienna but only 2 or 3 Freestars.
Since I am not ready to buy, and the inventory is so large, I intend to wait until Jan/Feb/Mar when the lot is full of snow/ice. What are the risks (mechanical wise) to buying a new car that has sat on the dealer lot for 12-14 months?
I am in Massachusetts ... anyone from other parts of the USA or Canada wish to share their thoughts on 2004 leftovers or inventory?
Although Japanese vehicles are usually built with good quality. you must agree that the new Nissan Quest is an exception. It had endless problems. Just look over in the Quest board.
Of course, they take good care, and even extended the warranty for the 2004 models.
All this because it was a brand new van, and first year bugs was the main problem. I foresee that 2005's will have better rating.
That makes me understand how the Freestar is now more reliable than ever. Since everything is "OLD", engine, transmission, suspension (tweaked a bit), power doors, and more, they worked out all bugs already, and is now more reliable.
It's not a bad van but there are about 7 or so other vans that are better on the market. That just one man's opinion.
As far as availabilty for 2004, I think there will be some 2004 on the lots but not as many as you think. Ford will dump these vehicles to the rental companies instead of leaving 9 month old vehilces on their lots. They have to bring the 05 to the dealers so they have to create room. I think rebates and incentives will still be in place for either a 04 or 05 in the late winter, obvilusly more for the 04. The consumer is hooked on rebates and Ford and GM can't sell cars without them. It's becoming a huge problem but that is another topic.
I agree that the MSRP on the Freestar is way too high. While a year ago you might have gotten a $2K rebate and a $3K discount, today it is much higher. For the features I want (2nd row captains chairs, dual AC, side curtain air bags) the MSRP is $31K. I cound not see paying $26K a year ago when the 2004 Toyota Sienna (with the same 3 features) could be had for $26K - $27K. But now I'm reading about higher end Freestars selling for $12K - $13K below MSRP. That puts my $31K MSRP Freestar at $18K - $19K. So I am going to take another look at them!
Just wonder how reliable freestar is. I bought a 2005 new car buying guide (2 months ago), it just said 2005 freestar is redesigned, and there's no reliability data for older freestar models).
Do you know when freestar first came out?
Average reliability for which year?
Any idea of the bottom price I can get?
Thanks
Reliability is likely (at best) average, though it will take another year to know for sure (as reliability data has not come out yet to my knowledge).
Today I was in Walmart, and there I found another book (Book #2 - $5.99 or 6.99) which is available at magazine stands only, is colorful, and is for cars they tested only.
Book #1, for example, also have information on new cars (like Honda Odyssey, Chevy Uplander), and only gives you some basic information which almost everybody knows already. Book #2, OTOH, will not list cars only if it has been tested by CR. It gives you much more detailed information, acceleration, braking, ride, handling, emergency handling, crash test results, and reliability data from the past years.
In book #2, the Freestar does not get the 'recommended' (check) symbol, but it does state that reliability is average. I have no idea what's the difference.
For me, CR data is not so reliable, and therefor not 'recommended'... I found some ratings not true, for example, they state that the Freestar has better acceleration and braking than the Chrysler Town & Country, and many other details. But I would say they're 80% true.
And folks, I don't want to start a new fight about CR's reliability here. We had enough from that stuff in the past.
Too Bad!
The transmission is much smoother, the ride is more smooth and controlled, much quieter inside the van (not outside, though), much better designed interior, rear seat folds into floor (but uncomfortable for adults, though), better stereo (especially the bass is much better), steering feel, and more.
I agree it's not up to competition, especially with the engine which is very unrefined, and achieve bad mileage, but comparing to the Windstar (not to Toyota Sienna) it's a big improvement.
The Bottom Line is:
This van is not very exciting and does not entice me to trade my 2000 SEL for a new Freestar. If it had some more features like the Town and Country or Sienna etc... then maybe I would be interested. This van is good basic transportation, but it may be over priced considering what is being offered by other auto makers.
We ended up leasing a Dodge GC SXT, but had Ford had a quieter engine and a power tailgate available we might have gone with the Freestar.
even if i drive 65-75 on hwy i might get close to 19. how fast were you driving when you got 22?
Hope it helps,
Fordguy
But I still saying that the Freestar is a big improvement over the Windstar. But DC vans are much superior.
The 2 main decisions that made me go with the Caravan is the better engine in the DC vans with better mileage, and 60/40 split rear seat. Otherwise both have highs and lows, and if you want to read the whole story, you can find it at the Dodge Grand Caravan 2005+ discussion board:
samnoe "Chrysler Town & Country and Grand Caravan 2005+" Dec 6, 2004 8:48pm
Steve, Host
Ford Freestyle vs Freestar is a significant change compared to Chevrolet Uplander vs Venture. Ford builds tough trucks but the Taurus transmission and head gasket failure of the Ford 3.8L V6 engines have had a seriously negative impact for Ford.