Can anyone tell me the weight differential between the new Duratec35 and the current 3.0 duratec? I've read that it's the same dimensions as the 3.0, but I can't find out anything about the weight difference.
It's probably named after the Roman god of fire, but with the Vulcan's lackluster performace, I wouldn't rule out the possibility that it was named after our emotionless intergalactic neighbors.
I assume it does have a jack because one of the Fusion commercials starts with an iPod.
This is an incorrect assumption. The iPod commercial has been previously discussed on this forum as being poor because it can cause this kind of confusion.
Personally I think any car coming out without an auxiliary input connected is poorly equipped these days...
does the 4 banger have chain driven ohc's? and if so, is the chain life of the vehicle or does it need to be replaced at 60k miles? also, what is the final drive ratio for the manual 4 banger? one more: how many revs does the 4 banger turn in top gear at 60 mph with the manual tranny?
I've seen lots of Fusions but very few have moonroofs on them. when I went to the Ford Innovation drive they had about five SEL V6 models and only like one had a moonroof. At the Ford dealership that we always go to, they have about 10 Fusions on the lot and only one has a moonroof and that was an SE Sport model. Is there any particular reason why Fusions don't have many moonroofs or is it just a coincidence.
is a great engine. Granted low tech, but this engine design is simple and that is what makes it great. I know a good handful of Taurus owners with this engine and some have as high as 165,000 miles on this little V6... Anyway.. Anyone have an update of Fusion/Milan sales ???
Does anyone know if you can custom order a Fusion. I want an SE without the trim package. You know the aluminum or wood accents. I'd also like my SE with fog lights if possible. I think it wasn't a good move to not offer the fog lights as an option or accessorie.
Sales of Ford cars were up 18 percent compared with a year earlier, while truck sales declined 7 percent. Ford's new mid-size sedans -- the Ford Fusion, Mercury Milan, and Lincoln Zephyr -- continued to gain momentum, the company said.
The sales results for the new mid-size sedans translate to an annual sales rate of 220,000, well above Ford's original estimates, the company said.
For the most part I agree with you, but it will depend on where you live.
Here in Milwaukee the fog never gets that bad and so the fog lights do not add much value against fog. They do help highlight the road markings in the dark when wet as the main beams tend to get "absorbed" by rain making it hard to see road markings.
But when I lived in England we would have very dense fog and there the fog lights were life savers. I'm taking both front and rear fog lights. Infact in the UK rear fog lights are a mandatory item on cars sold there. In dense fog or heavy rain with lots of road spray the normal rear lights will not be visible from as little as 50 yards away, and that is where rear fog lights come into their element.
Why do most US made cars not have rear fog lights? I would have thought that these are more necessary than front...
does the 4 banger have chain driven ohc's? and if so, is the chain life of the vehicle or does it need to be replaced at 60k miles? also, what is the final drive ratio for the manual 4 banger? one more: how many revs does the 4 banger turn in top gear at 60 mph with the manual tranny?
I think I can answer some of these questions for you. The Duratec23 is mostly a Mazda engine. The intake manifold is Ford, the head, cams, valves are all sourced from Mazda, last I read. I have the 2.3L in my Mazda6. It's a DOHC 16 valve with VVT. Mine has a timing chain, self lubricating, self adjudting, no replacement required.
Yes, the 2.3L has a timing chain, they are less likely to break, and last a longer terminal than the belts. Sidenote: the chains make a bit more noise over belts. Which is why the competitors are praised for being "Sophisticated, quiet and high-tec" come review time...only because they aren't there when they do snap come ownership time.
I'm sure you can add the fog lights but they may not be available just yet.
You can custom order any vehicle but you can only choose from the factory options. Which trim package does it come with and what would you like, exactly? You can probably get a dash kit that will cover the factory pieces anyway.
Some dealers will purposely not order them for stock and will have on installed aftermarket if the customer wants one. This gives them more flexibility since some customers don't want one. Aftermarket moonroofs can be just as good as the factory roofs if installed correctly.
Sidenote: the chains make a bit more noise over belts
One thing that Mazda designed for the 2.3L is cassette sized counter balances around the crank shaft to help reduce noise, and vibration. The 2.3L is relatively quiet. It also have very similar technology to Honda, Toyota, Nissan. So, Ford does have a refined 2.3L engine, now.
I think it's possible the Fusion might really help Ford get out of the rut they are in. If they can sell over 120,000 units this year on regular customers, and then expand on that as selling them as a fleet car to corporations, it is not unrealistic to see sales numbers hit 200,000 in the near future. IMO.
I really think it's a nice car, competitvley priced. I really hope it does well. If it drives even somewhat like the Mazda6, it should be a pleasure to drive. :shades:
Consumer Reports gave a pretty positive review to the Fusion/Milan in the March issue.
One new concern to me, though, is the brakes (or more likely tires) on the 4 cyl. The stopping distance was much longer for the 4 cylinder than it was for the V-6. Both of the tested units had ABS. I assume the brakes the same on all versions of the Fusion/Milan...if so, the difference must be crappy tires on the 4 cyl???
“The brakes don't stop the vehicle - the tires do. The brakes slow the rotation of the wheels and tires. This means that braking distance measured on a single stop from a highway legal speed or higher is almost totally dependent upon the stopping ability of the tires in use”
I wrote something like this here a while back: “This means that the limiting factor in the typical published brake test is actually the tires ability to grip the surface. And the ability of the ABS to deal with the different (and changing) weight distribution between front and rear – and the rather violent weight transfer inherent in a simulated ‘panic’ stop.”
I am well aware that there are other critical aspects of a braking system than the pure ability of the calipers to clamp the disks. All I am suggesting here is that:
“My sense, after a lot or reading over the years, is that today, a (dry, clean, smooth pavement) brake test is largely a tire test.
By that I mean that nearly any competent, current brake system is capable of overpowering / locking the wheels / tires.”
There are a lot of other important considerations in many real world situations, and I do appreciate the engineering that went into the total brake / tire package on my GP GXP.
"We have 3000+ miles and no problems whatsoever. Feels very solid. It's a pleasure to get in the car every time. Where are the rest of you, though? I have yet to see another Fusion on the road (MD suburbs of DC)!"
Hey! I have 6,700 on my SEL V-6. I'm the black one you see on Route 50 in the HOV lane in MD. But I've only seen one other. Where are they being sold? :confuse:
thanks for the response, i know that's it a mazda powerplant...ford has been using mazda parts for years...my 93 explorer had a mazda 5 speed manual tranny in it. i figured it was chain driven cams but it's good to be certain and it's great that it's life of the engine.
actually, back in the day, chains needed to be replaced just like the belts, in fact, they didn't go much past the belts in terms of mileage interval for replacement. now, does anyone know what the final drive ratio is for the manual? and what's the story with the different braking distances between the 4 banger and the v6? i would think the calipers,pads, and rotors would be the same.
I've noticed while traveling on I-80 (Ohio/Indiana toll)the last several years Taurus's with brighter(halogen) rectangular horizontally red lights mounted in the bumper. Definitely big help while driving in the lines of 18 wheelers during a rain storm/foggy conditions. Something that's actually useful? Not sure if this was an option or fleet vehicles Ford was doing experiments. It sure was useful as it was the only thing visible. I too remember the useful fog and rear fog lights on the autobahn way back in 1969-70. Unfortunately our present decorator fog lights, by all manufactures offer in the States, are nothing more than wasteful current draw and mostly annoying to approaching drivers. Of course how many dealers have clue how to properly adjust the headlights, do even ask about the fog lights! Paul
I saw three that were sold and on the road today. Okay, one of them was as I passed the Ford dealership and someone was picking one up.
The best advertising HAS ALWAYS BEEN word of mouth. Now is the same as in ancient Rome. It is positive word of mouth that really sells cars. Look at Toyota, everybody will tell you "Oh my friend has a Camry with 2 million miles on it, not one problem". At my job it is an Accord praising gallery. Though every time the department goes out for lunches, everyone wants to take my Mazda. The "buzz" about the Fusion is just starting up. Ford needs to up date it this year though to make sure that they tidy some things up like adding the 3.5 and manu-shift and getting an MP3 player jack in the radio.
ALL auto moonroofs are "after manufacturering" in that the roof was added after the car was built.
I'm sorry, but that is not true. I've heard the same statement from many salesmen as well, but remember their motive is to sell you a car - preferably one from their current inventory. Dealers often will not order sunroof equipped models for their lots because certain shoppers absolutely will not buy a car that has one (for reasons of headroom, added cost or fears of problems). If someone (like me) comes in refusing to buy a car without one, they'll just offer to "add" the sunroof to a car already in their inventory. Don't do it.
If you doubt my veracity, compare a car with an aftermarket roof alongside an identical model with a factory installed one. You'll be able to identify the aftermarket roof because it will have a rubber "lip" around the glass on the exterior. This is to cover the exposed metal edge created from where the customization shop has actually sawn into the roof (in factory jobs, the metal for the roof is stamped with an opening for the option from the get-go). From the inside looking up, on aftermarket jobs you'll see a thick rubber boot covering up the damage done by where the reciprocating saw cut through the standard headliner. On factory equipped models, the headliner is designed for the roof opening and is reinforced rearward from the hole. If you glance up through the opening, you should see a vertical ridge where the metal around the hole was "folded over" in the stamping process. This ridge does not exist on aftermarket jobs.
Even worse, aftermarket hack-jobs cost about double what a factory installation would and they're far more prone to leaking and electrical maladies. I have never had a problem with a factory installed roof, but when shopping for used cars, I have yet to run across an aftermarket job that hasn't developed a serious problem (and none of these were very old cars). I've seen countless sagging headliners (one, a 3 year old Chrysler LHS, had a headliner held up with carpet staples) and found roofs that bind in their tracks.
You may not notice a problem from day one (how fortunate for the sales staff), but if you intend to keep your new car more than 2-3 years, prepare for the inevitable issues that will develop. It's too bad but the problems stemming from aftermarket roof jobs have given the entire sunroof option a bad name. Don't confuse the two. Factory sunroofs good. Having your new car attacked from the top with a Milwaukee Sawzall bad.
I too seem like the only one in a Fusion. I'm in the western suburbs of Chicago. Now, after 3000+ miles, what kind of mileage are you getting on your SEL V-6? I have 1200 miles on mine and am very worried about my 16.9 miles per gallon in the city. Is it still too early to worry? It seems like a far stretch for me to average what I thought might be at least 22 miles per gallon for city driving. Am I really going to increase 5 miles per gallon after breaking in, or do I need to take in for a service check up.
* Mileage will improve, usually by about 5000 miles.
* You probably will not ever get the EPA city mileage figures in heavy, stop and go traffic like Chicago and its suburbs has.
* 18 MPG in the city on a virtually new car the size of the Fusion and with its relative power really isn't all that bad...
* If you do take it in to the dealer for low mpg complaints, there is little that can be done unless there is a physical problem with the car causing the fuel economy complaint. You will most probably be told some version of "They all do that."
Well not really, but the driver did look like my twin. It was a black SEL heading uptown on 4th Ave and 14th street in New York City. This is the first one I've seen since I saw another black SEL in Brooklyn back in October. With the Ford, Lincoln, Mercury dealship only .5 miles away from my house I would of expected to see more. Twice I went by and saw only one blue SE. For some strange reason there are also displaying a few late model Accord and Camry. I guess their owners must have traded them in for a Fusion.
At least two people (me and the reviewer for Motorweek) feel that the Milan has a bit softer ride than the fusion. It seems everything else I have read says that the cars are mechanically identical and I am aware of no one else who has noted any differences in the ride and handling between the two.
Motorweek review includes:
Handling hardware consists of a short/long arm front and multi-link rear suspension. But tuning felt different than Fusion, a little softer...The up side of this softer setup is a very quiet and compliant street ride, fitting nicely between Fusion and Zephyr.
Braking is by 4-wheel discs with our car's optional ABS, which produced longish stops of 135 feet. Nothing dramatic here, but we did have to apply a few more steering corrections than in either Fusion or Zephyr. Mercury has traditionally favored comfort over performance, but we think Ford should tighten up Milan's overall feel so it completely lives up to its Euro-trendy look.
Another possible explanation for the differences could be different tires. I know from experience that different tires (even though they are the same size) can make a big difference in the ride of a car. Is the Milan perhaps equipped with different tires from the Fusion?
tires definitely play a big part in lots of areas: fuel economy, handling, ride, and braking. wider, softer tires can make a definite difference in the braking distances. the major component of the braking numbers are the size of the calipers/pads and rotors. road and track always gives the "brake swept area" in their data panel. this number is helpful in comparing different braking systems on different cars. but, make no mistake...the wider the tires the greater the resistance: for all that emcompasses...some good, some bad...it all depends on your requirments.
FWIW, it seems that Ford engines tend to take longer to break in, with significant effects on mileage.
After a string of GM cars, which achieved the EPA mileage within 1000mls, my Focus went from 22 to 26MPG after 1000 and 6000mls, respectively.
I was upset in the beginning that such a small car would have a poorer mileage than my other larger, more powerful, V6 sedans, but now it's more reasonable.
I was in the 18's for city driving until I hit around 2500 miles, now I'm just above 20 and still climbing at 3500 miles. I expect it will flatten out at 5000 miles around 22.
Last week I was doing 65 behind a dump trunk on a flat road and when I reset the mpg it was showing 35!
The MPG is that part of the package/option with compass, outside temp dingus? Standard or option? Drafting can really boast the MPG, unfortunately stone abrastion is high,also!
Those with ABS, any strange anomallies driving on snowy roads, yet? I'm remembering the Contour/Mystique setups. Wonder if it's the same vendor or costing cutting engineering?
Comments
Yeah, I'm not sure where they got that from!
IIRC the Edmunds article stated that the 3.0L Vulcan is currently being installed in the Fusion. I was just poking fun at their mistake a bit.
I assume it does have a jack because one of the Fusion commercials starts with an iPod.
This is an incorrect assumption. The iPod commercial has been previously discussed on this forum as being poor because it can cause this kind of confusion.
Personally I think any car coming out without an auxiliary input connected is poorly equipped these days...
Anyway.. Anyone have an update of Fusion/Milan sales ???
It might be because the Moonroof cars are definately skimpy in the head room area.
Mark.
Mark.
http://www.arifleet.com/production.html
Enjoy,
- Ray
Milan: 2,023
Zephyr: 2,692
Sales of Ford cars were up 18 percent compared with a year earlier, while truck sales declined 7 percent. Ford's new mid-size sedans -- the Ford Fusion, Mercury Milan, and Lincoln Zephyr -- continued to gain momentum, the company said.
The sales results for the new mid-size sedans translate to an annual sales rate of 220,000, well above Ford's original estimates, the company said.
Here in Milwaukee the fog never gets that bad and so the fog lights do not add much value against fog. They do help highlight the road markings in the dark when wet as the main beams tend to get "absorbed" by rain making it hard to see road markings.
But when I lived in England we would have very dense fog and there the fog lights were life savers. I'm taking both front and rear fog lights. Infact in the UK rear fog lights are a mandatory item on cars sold there. In dense fog or heavy rain with lots of road spray the normal rear lights will not be visible from as little as 50 yards away, and that is where rear fog lights come into their element.
Why do most US made cars not have rear fog lights? I would have thought that these are more necessary than front...
I think I can answer some of these questions for you. The Duratec23 is mostly a Mazda engine. The intake manifold is Ford, the head, cams, valves are all sourced from Mazda, last I read. I have the 2.3L in my Mazda6. It's a DOHC 16 valve with VVT. Mine has a timing chain, self lubricating, self adjudting, no replacement required.
You can custom order any vehicle but you can only choose from the factory options. Which trim package does it come with and what would you like, exactly? You can probably get a dash kit that will cover the factory pieces anyway.
I don't like them because the controls don't integrate with the factory controls.
One thing that Mazda designed for the 2.3L is cassette sized counter balances around the crank shaft to help reduce noise, and vibration. The 2.3L is relatively quiet. It also have very similar technology to Honda, Toyota, Nissan. So, Ford does have a refined 2.3L engine, now.
I think it's possible the Fusion might really help Ford get out of the rut they are in. If they can sell over 120,000 units this year on regular customers, and then expand on that as selling them as a fleet car to corporations, it is not unrealistic to see sales numbers hit 200,000 in the near future. IMO.
I really think it's a nice car, competitvley priced. I really hope it does well. If it drives even somewhat like the Mazda6, it should be a pleasure to drive. :shades:
One new concern to me, though, is the brakes (or more likely tires) on the 4 cyl. The stopping distance was much longer for the 4 cylinder than it was for the V-6. Both of the tested units had ABS. I assume the brakes the same on all versions of the Fusion/Milan...if so, the difference must be crappy tires on the 4 cyl???
Whether the roof gets added by a good aftermarket company or the OEM is little difference now adays.
Mark.
http://www.stoptech.com/whitepapers/brake_systems_and_upgrade_selections_122701.- htm
“The brakes don't stop the vehicle - the tires do. The brakes slow the rotation of the wheels and tires. This means that braking distance measured on a single stop from a highway legal speed or higher is almost totally dependent upon the stopping ability of the tires in use”
I wrote something like this here a while back: “This means that the limiting factor in the typical published brake test is actually the tires ability to grip the surface. And the ability of the ABS to deal with the different (and changing) weight distribution between front and rear – and the rather violent weight transfer inherent in a simulated ‘panic’ stop.”
I am well aware that there are other critical aspects of a braking system than the pure ability of the calipers to clamp the disks. All I am suggesting here is that:
“My sense, after a lot or reading over the years, is that today, a (dry, clean, smooth pavement) brake test is largely a tire test.
By that I mean that nearly any competent, current brake system is capable of overpowering / locking the wheels / tires.”
There are a lot of other important considerations in many real world situations, and I do appreciate the engineering that went into the total brake / tire package on my GP GXP.
- Ray
Not a brake system engineer . .
Hey! I have 6,700 on my SEL V-6. I'm the black one you see on Route 50 in the HOV lane in MD. But I've only seen one other. Where are they being sold? :confuse:
Not sure if this was an option or fleet vehicles Ford was doing experiments. It sure was useful as it was the only thing visible.
I too remember the useful fog and rear fog lights on the autobahn way back in 1969-70. Unfortunately our present decorator fog lights, by all manufactures offer in the States, are nothing more than wasteful current draw and mostly annoying to approaching drivers. Of course how many dealers have clue how to properly adjust the headlights, do even ask about the fog lights!
Paul
Otherwise, why would a Porsche with ceramic disks and pads brake much faster than another one with conventional brake components with the same tires?
The best advertising HAS ALWAYS BEEN word of mouth. Now is the same as in ancient Rome. It is positive word of mouth that really sells cars. Look at Toyota, everybody will tell you "Oh my friend has a Camry with 2 million miles on it, not one problem". At my job it is an Accord praising gallery. Though every time the department goes out for lunches, everyone wants to take my Mazda. The "buzz" about the Fusion is just starting up. Ford needs to up date it this year though to make sure that they tidy some things up like adding the 3.5 and manu-shift and getting an MP3 player jack in the radio.
I'm sorry, but that is not true. I've heard the same statement from many salesmen as well, but remember their motive is to sell you a car - preferably one from their current inventory. Dealers often will not order sunroof equipped models for their lots because certain shoppers absolutely will not buy a car that has one (for reasons of headroom, added cost or fears of problems). If someone (like me) comes in refusing to buy a car without one, they'll just offer to "add" the sunroof to a car already in their inventory. Don't do it.
If you doubt my veracity, compare a car with an aftermarket roof alongside an identical model with a factory installed one. You'll be able to identify the aftermarket roof because it will have a rubber "lip" around the glass on the exterior. This is to cover the exposed metal edge created from where the customization shop has actually sawn into the roof (in factory jobs, the metal for the roof is stamped with an opening for the option from the get-go). From the inside looking up, on aftermarket jobs you'll see a thick rubber boot covering up the damage done by where the reciprocating saw cut through the standard headliner. On factory equipped models, the headliner is designed for the roof opening and is reinforced rearward from the hole. If you glance up through the opening, you should see a vertical ridge where the metal around the hole was "folded over" in the stamping process. This ridge does not exist on aftermarket jobs.
Even worse, aftermarket hack-jobs cost about double what a factory installation would and they're far more prone to leaking and electrical maladies. I have never had a problem with a factory installed roof, but when shopping for used cars, I have yet to run across an aftermarket job that hasn't developed a serious problem (and none of these were very old cars). I've seen countless sagging headliners (one, a 3 year old Chrysler LHS, had a headliner held up with carpet staples) and found roofs that bind in their tracks.
You may not notice a problem from day one (how fortunate for the sales staff), but if you intend to keep your new car more than 2-3 years, prepare for the inevitable issues that will develop. It's too bad but the problems stemming from aftermarket roof jobs have given the entire sunroof option a bad name. Don't confuse the two. Factory sunroofs good. Having your new car attacked from the top with a Milwaukee Sawzall bad.
* You probably will not ever get the EPA city mileage figures in heavy, stop and go traffic like Chicago and its suburbs has.
* 18 MPG in the city on a virtually new car the size of the Fusion and with its relative power really isn't all that bad...
* If you do take it in to the dealer for low mpg complaints, there is little that can be done unless there is a physical problem with the car causing the fuel economy complaint. You will most probably be told some version of "They all do that."
This is the first one I've seen since I saw another black SEL in Brooklyn back in October. With the Ford, Lincoln, Mercury dealship only .5 miles away from my house I would of expected to see more. Twice I went by and saw only one blue SE. For some strange reason there are also displaying a few late model Accord and Camry. I guess their owners must have traded them in for a Fusion.
Motorweek review includes:
Handling hardware consists of a short/long arm front and multi-link rear suspension. But tuning felt different than Fusion, a little softer...The up side of this softer setup is a very quiet and compliant street ride, fitting nicely between Fusion and Zephyr.
Braking is by 4-wheel discs with our car's optional ABS, which produced longish stops of 135 feet. Nothing dramatic here, but we did have to apply a few more steering corrections than in either Fusion or Zephyr. Mercury has traditionally favored comfort over performance, but we think Ford should tighten up Milan's overall feel so it completely lives up to its Euro-trendy look.
Another possible explanation for the differences could be different tires. I know from experience that different tires (even though they are the same size) can make a big difference in the ride of a car. Is the Milan perhaps equipped with different tires from the Fusion?
The Fusion and its siblings sure look like winners, especially if Ford addressed the lack of sound insulation in the Mazda 6.
After a string of GM cars, which achieved the EPA mileage within 1000mls, my Focus went from 22 to 26MPG after 1000 and 6000mls, respectively.
I was upset in the beginning that such a small car would have a poorer mileage than my other larger, more powerful, V6 sedans, but now it's more reasonable.
Last week I was doing 65 behind a dump trunk on a flat road and when I reset the mpg it was showing 35!
Those with ABS, any strange anomallies driving on snowy roads, yet? I'm remembering the Contour/Mystique setups. Wonder if it's the same vendor or costing cutting engineering?
TNX
Paul