2005 Mercury Montego

ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
edited March 2014 in Ford
2005 Mercury montego, a chromed clone of the Ford Five-Hundred. Here are some pics....

http://osx.wieck.com/pv/WKA/2003/02/12/WKA2003021245079_pv.jpg

http://osx.wieck.com/pv/WKA/2003/02/12/WKA2003021244029_pv.jpg

Debuting with a 3.0L DOHC V6 Duratec engine, probably making between 220-240HP. A year later, a 3.5L DOHC Cyclone V6 will debut, making 250HP. An available AWD version will be an option. CVT and 6 Speed transmission will be used as well.

Any thoughts, opinions?
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Comments

  • alman08alman08 Member Posts: 282
    only if they will build it very very very close to the drawing. by the way, ANT14, where did you find that pic of the interior? I looked all over and couldn't find one. good job!
    there is a lot of talk out there about this car (Ford 500) needing a V. I personally don't see a need of it. How fast do cars need to go? Who really cares about 0-60 data? Anyone out there really going to gun the 0-60 on a daily basis? Either the 3.0 or 3.5 V-6 will work for me. And I can't wait to see test drive the CVT. I think for this car to be a success, Ford will need quality quality and quality.
    Will this car look good in white? hehehe
  • navigator3740navigator3740 Member Posts: 279
    I'm loaded with those..... Has potential.
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    Because of packaging constraints, Ford would have to modify a current V8, to place it into this car. Lets take an example, they can use the 3.9L DOHC V-8 from the Tbird/LS. It's the smallest V8 they have and would fit. Issue is, Jag will be the exclusive user of that engine in 2 years, meaning it wont be viable. By the time this vehicle debuts, the 3.9L V8 will be phased out, because the 3.5L Cyclone V6 will debut, and it's power levels will be competitive with other 3.5L DOHC V6 engines.

    Personally, I believe any FWD vehicle with more than 240HP is a bit rediculous unless it doesnt have some major counter balancers to counteract the major torque steer it'll encounter. And even so, it's a bit too much for just the front wheel to handle.

    But the Montego and 500 will have AWD available. That should answer that question. And that 3.5L thru the years will be tuned to make more power if needed, without the need of a V8.

    The car is also intended to buyers who would buy the Avalon for example. Big, trying to convey luxury, no sporting pretensions, elegance. Already some people are placing the vehicles competitor to the new Chrysler 300C and thats totally off the mark. Considering the 500/Montego, the late arrival answer to the exiting Chrysler LHS sedans. That would be it's more direct compeitor.

    It's also intended to be a small volume product, so dont expect to see one at every corner. And there's MAJOR concentration on quality and interior materials. J.Mays' influence is quite evident in the future products we will begin to see. J.Mays was the designer for VW/Audi before he jumped ship. Which explains the nice interiors and quality materials. Which is why VW has a high level of "perceived quality" amongst it's buyers, while in reality it's realibility and dependability, is that of a KIA, go figure what some nice touches here and there can convey.

    Overall the quality level used for this vehicle will be like something we havent seen from Ford before. And they dont intend to push them out of the dealership with $2K rebates either. The vehicle will be profittable at over 70K units, and the assembly line is using, can easily switch to the Freestyle, if need be. Depending what theres more demand for.

    Pictures are from Wieck media. It's a media site for journalists and other automotive authorities to view pictures of vehicles and such. Many of these are pictures we see in brochures and such. They also take pictures of racing events, and pretty much anything pertaining to vehicles, such as car gatherings, car shows, etc.
  • navigator3740navigator3740 Member Posts: 279
    So, ANT, is Lincoln planning to put something on this platform, because a tall big car is looming in my future someday..... The pictures look nice.
  • upsetter1upsetter1 Member Posts: 205
    ANT, interior looks very similar to Ford Mondeo of Europe. So it may be Mondeo or something based on Mondeo. I don't think that Montego or 500 for that matter interior even exist to make a photo. As far as I know Mondeo interior beeing good enough (by NA Ford standarts) still isn't up to VW competition.

    Interior is still Ford's weakness. I don't like the feeling of LS interior e.g. Steering wheel doesn't look sporty, actually my 2002 Sable steering wheel has more sporty looks. Then LS gauge cluster looks dated. Thats very dissapointed because LS is very good car and interior just doesn't match. I just hope that this time they are going to do it right with interior. They have to sort out relations with suppliers to be on long term basis.
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    Upsetter,

    I myself have a 2000 LS8 when it came out, and I've taken an extensive drive of the new 2003 LS, and those interior issues pertaining to the materials, have been addressed. Surely there's a few items here and there, that were not updated, I was anal enough to notice because I just know whats going on. The steering wheel has a different texture and feel to it, as well as the dashboard texture. It's an improvement by far, but there's always people who want JUST a bit more. Thats where the line gets drawn, as to how much it matters, and what your willing to work around with.

    In relation to overall Fords interior...From a recent study conducted, independently, Ford's interior were placed as the best, pertaining to the Big3 manufacturer's. This test dealt with ergonomics/placements, etc, tactile feel, operation, material, workmanship, etc. And overall, from the major manufacturer's, those polled place the Ford behind Toyota, for overall quality.

    I do NOT remember where VW placed, I do believe it was in the top 5, but I do not have this information with me, nor will I be able to find it (shreded LONG ago). What VW has (In another study, independent as well) is the highest "Perceived quality". And ironically...it's really just perceived because overall reliability and dependability, is quite bad.

    Other things that were pointed out in this study. Customers are more critical of their vehicles, if they have a boring/tacky/plasticky interior. While you have (for example) a VW owner who swears their car is trouble free, yet in reality it's falling apart.

    What has been learned? Do NOT go cheap with interior materials/textures. Many people sit in their cars hours a day, do NOT cut costs that they can see.....

    The interior does look like the Ford Mondeo because the same designer (J.Mays) who worked for VW/Audi, now works for Ford. HENCE, all future Ford interiors, will have that euro flavor and richness in materials. Look at the gauges, and they look like VW/Audi's layout. Look for simple elegance, simple luxury.

    Navigator,

        Yes, this platform serves as the basis for the current Volvo S80, S60 Xc70, XC90, Etc. It's Volvo's P2 platform, heavily modified, and Ford-ified. Meaning, less use of aluminum and weight savings. Basic backbone, different bone structure in other words.

        Will Lincoln have a version of it... Hmmmm, well not exactly. A few factors must take place for that to occur. As in, Montego will be in the same showroom. It will cause product static (like the Mountaineer and Aviator deal with). It'll depend how successful the vehicle is, along with the 500, along with the Freestyle (which share same platform as well). There are "talks" for a Lincoln version of the Freestyle, ONLY if it's successful at first. Although all the details have not been thought out, THAT I will confirm. As to a sedan version of this platform, as in 500/Montego wise (I have NOT seen such plans, or heard such talks) Is not something I can confirm,

    BUT personally, and this is JUST ME using my brain and giving you a wild educated guess. I dont think they would. Why? Because the above mentioned product static, not only in the same dealership, but Volvo will deal heavily with this platform where it originated from, so it might cause brand static as well. Lincoln is more prone to work with the DEW platform (LS,Tbird,S-type) and Futura platform, over the one found in the Montego.

    Personally, I'm rather excited about the Montego/500 project because it'll send Ford into a very positive path pertaining to customers expectations, and will rather suprise them. Just hold out for the 2nd year version which will have the 3.5L Cyclone V6... The 3.0L that will be released first, will be a bit of a heavy porker, but not THAT bad though.... THAT will depend on the CVT they will incoporate.
  • danielj6danielj6 Member Posts: 285
    Can someone tell me if the Montego is slated to replace the Sable?
  • upsetter1upsetter1 Member Posts: 205
    Montego is upscale car. I think it will rather replace Marquis, may be not replace but will be top of the line. I beleive smaller vehicle based on Mazda6 (of hopefully Mondeo) will replace Sable.

    ANT btw how old is Volvo platform. I mean isn't it too old ? I never liked Volvos, but why Volvo is better than Mondeo ? Is that new 3.5 emgine one of Fords modular engines (like Duratec) or it is completely new ?
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    Yes correct, the Montego will "compliment" the Grand Marquis. They both have totally different roles. IN other words, when the Grand Marquis sales begin to die, and they concentrate LESS on that vehicle, the Montego will eventally be another offering. But there's plan for a future RWD sedan. And THAT would be correct to state it'll replace the Grand Marquis. But the Montego has it's own mision. It's an FWD/AWD V-6 engined, large size sedan.

    And to be more precise, the Sables replacement will be a Futura based sedan. Names have not been released yet because they are being studied, but it will start with an "M". So we can safely call it "Sable replacement".

    Upsetter,
        The Volvo's platform originated on the current S80/XC70. And that on itself was a newly engineered, from the ground up platform. I wouldnt say it's old, many things can be changed on it, to make it "All new". There's just no correct measure as to how much a platform morphs from one generation to another, to classify it as 're-engineered', or all new.

    Mondeo's platform isn't bad at all. We knew it here as the Contour/Mystique. And it's drivability and performance are above many others in it's class (in Europe). But it failed here because of a tight rear seat, size, and costs. The Focus marketed it's death here in the U.S. We have different consumer thinking on both sides of the pond.

    Without going too far off topic. In the U.S., if you charged $20-25K for a Focus, people would laugh at the car. Most American consumers believe that the size of the car, should be relative to the price. Whereas in Europe, you have a loaded Focus that can get expensive, but it has far more features thatn what we see in the U.S. Focus, because people there are about quality, not quantity/size.

    I originally wanted the Mondeo stateside, as a Mercury offering. Ford did pick up on that. But if we were to take the current Mondeo, and federalize it, you might have the above issue (being too expensive for it's size) and overall not being a profittable product. Plus (as the Focus), they might screw it up as well.

    So they thought instead, lets start with the next generation Mondeo NOW, and by the time it's finished, it would be time for Mondeo's life cycle to finish. So you could say the Mazda6,Futura ARE what WILL be the next generation Mondeo. Although by the time it debuts in Europe, it'll be tailored a bit more to their tastes. So look for size/dimension differences, suspension tuning, but same heart as the Mazda6, Futura.

    Now in relation to answer why is Volvo's platform better than Mondeo. It's comparing apples to oranges. The Volvo platform had to be intensivly modified, in fact ssooooo much, that it might be deemed "NEW". The Volvo platform is very expensive to produce because it's quite solid and sophisticated. For Ford to introduce the 500/Montego/Freestyle at a decent price class, the platform had to undergo major re-engineering, plus more "models" had to be introduced to spread the cost and efficiency.

    It's either, ONE model priced at $38K and pray they sell 300-400K (which common sense dictates it's extremly difficult). Or have 3 models which each can sell 100-200K units, filling 3 different tastes, at a decent $28-34K pricepoint. Most consumers who pay for $30K+ for a sedan, do not want it to be as common as a Taurus, because it might drive down their resale value for having so many flood the used car market. Those buyers prefer low volumes.

    Volvo's platform would be TOO expensive, to use as a basic sedan like a Mondeo/Futura and keep it in their price classes respectively, which is why there's another platform that they will share. But think of it this way, the platform will have very good expensive genes. Just as with the LS to S-type relation, your getting a platform fit for a Jaguar, but at a lower price.

    And that same platform that underpins the Mazda6, and future Futura/Mondeo, etc. will spin off the next generation Focus, Volvo S40/V50, Mazda3 entry sedans. It's a smaller, modified version, of that same platform. Volvo will be the first to debut the results of this newer platform on the S40 to be released at the end of this year. Mazda3 will follow after, Focus will follow later next year. And that platform is even BETTER than the current Focus platform, which Focus has received acoloades for it's supierior drivability.

    In response to the the 3.5L, yes it's a bored out 3.0L DOHC Duratec V-6. It'll be refered to as the Cyclone. The current 3.0L Duratec, can be pushed to pump out 240HP (as in the S-type 3.0), while it's torque is set at 221TQ.

    Issue is, if you take that current displacement, and keep increasing it's power, your going to create what I call "Honda-esque" issues. Meaning, you'll have gops of HP, but hardly any decent workable torque. And to attain it, you'll have to rev to 7000+ RPM, which is rediculous. Already the 240HP 3.0L Duratec reaches that number at 6800 RPM, a bit too much for regular sedan drivers. And it DOES get tiring having to hear the engine work that hard.

    I personally believe, your torque rating should be equal or MORE in relationship to your HP figure. So this 3.5L Cyclone V-6 will resolve that issue. It'll pick up where the 3.0L Duratec left off (240HP) and work upwards. With equal torque. So look for 250HP and 250TQ. at respectable RPM levels.

    This is why the current 3.9L DOHV V8 found in the LS and Tbird, have been "upgraded" from 252HP 267TQ. to 280HP 286TQ., to allow the introduction of the 3.5L. While Jag just increased displacement from 4.0L, to 4.2L. It would be rediculous for Ford to debut the 3.5L Cyclone V6 with 250HP, while offering a 3.9L V8 pumping almost the same figures. So this engine will fill the 240-290HP sector. Anything over that will be answered with V8's.
  • alman08alman08 Member Posts: 282
    thanks for the exciting info on this...
    I appreciate it :)
  • navigator3740navigator3740 Member Posts: 279
    I'm very impressed. Thank you.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    How do you know so much, and how I can I know as much as you do?

    Somewhat related: I am thinking of subscribing to Auto News, a weekly publication that seems to feature lots of insider information. But one year is $135! Do you think it is worth it?

    ~alpha
  • regfootballregfootball Member Posts: 2,166
    you'll get much more entertainment out of the 135 bucks on an 'adult' site.
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    LOL good point. But it would be even better to find resources where your able to enter these sites, for free. Like Password hacking sites.

    Alpha,

        As for what I know, I can safely say I'm a step closer to the total story, so I'm just sharing what I see. Nuff' said.

    I'm familiar with Automotive News, some of the main stories there, are released in their sister site Autoweek.com, and for free. Depends on the story. If it's an exclusive story/information, then you would have to pay for it. But I really haven't seen any interesting topics (for me to read at least) from the members stories. In other words, I think you would find more information on these forums, than you will there.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,285
    Ant, you mentioned an AWD version, but is it a normal front or rear driver???
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    The standard version will be FWD which will debut first, then the AWD will be offered as an option.

    Same issue with the Futura (and whatever Mercury will name there's). FWD standard, AWD versions soon after.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,285
    Not my first choice, unfortunately, but I guess it's to be expected.
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    Neither for me. I prefer RWD, but if AWD is available without adding too much weight onto the vehicle, then even better. All depends on the power routing of the AWD system. It'll be FWD biased such as the Volvo S60's, but as to how much, has not yet be determined.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,285
    The concept picture you broadcast is very appealing, at least the exterior is. I like the front end treatment, large wheels, looks like a very long wheelbase. Not sure about the rear end, resembles new 750i, which is wierd IMO. If it's "tall" like the 500 is supposed to be, it may fit my sedan needs when my SUV days are over. No chance of a Town Car version, hmmm? I like the tall concept. My knees are tired of trying to raise up out of cars these days......
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    Now that itself is a sketch, and a racy one at that. The 500 Sketch is very close to the real thing. The Montego sketch is a bit 'fluffed' up. If you look at a larger version of that picture, it looks as if the front hood/bumper is lower. As if the whole vehicle is lower, and the wheels just adds to this visual impact. But don't let it fool you. It's still a pretty high vehicle overall.

    The benefit of these cars, will be it's ability to enter/exit easily since it's H-point will be higher than traditional sedans. The cars will have a wedge look to them, but don't look for the tail-hump of the current 7-Series (which is undergoing the fastest redo in the industry since the [non-permissible content removed]-tek, because if it's styling).

    Nope no Town Car version, or Lincolned version, BUT look for something close to it, but more of a cross-over senario. And that itself is quite some time away.
  • alman08alman08 Member Posts: 282
    e.o.m.
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    Ford hasn't released much information on this car to the general public, so what I've been sharing is more than they are willing to admit. Look for more news releases towards the end of the summer.
  • daytona3daytona3 Member Posts: 24
    This is a sharp looking car. I think (and hope) that the Montego and 500 do very well for Mercury and Ford. The interior picture is great.

    ANT, I think you might be right that the Montego and 500 are going to compete against the Chrysler LH cars. The only problem (for Chrysler) is that the fwd LH cars will be gone, which I think is a bad move. The news of Mercury getting a rwd car to replace the Grand Marquis and to compliment the Montego is good news. While Chrysler sells its rwd LX cars, Mercury can sell a rwd sedan, a large, tall, fwd/awd sedan, and a fwd Futura based sedan. I would like to see Mercury take the Montego or the Futura based sedan and go after the Nissan Maxima. The Montego interior, according to the picture, looks like it is up to the task. Now Ford just needs to add a 260 - 280 hp V-6 (if it has one), a 6 speed manual option, dual chrome tipped exhaust, and AWD. Boy would that be a screamer. I can just picture some 300M owners trading in for this.
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    Ford has admitted that the best competitor against the 500/Montego would be the Avalon. I personally don't see any other Full Size, FWD/AWD sedans in that price point. But they mean Avalon as in a car that suits pretty much mass market. It's a consumer that doesn't want to scream for attention, a soft tuned sort of vehicle. And it's not meant to be a high seller either.

    As for Maxima, I think the price point is close, but with the success of the current Altima, I don't see the Maxima's mission too clear. They have admitted they will sell less than the current version, because of the close kinship between both vehicles.

    As I've stated earlier, Ford will implment a 3.5L DOHC V-6 a year after it's introduction. It's not clear what the power rating will be, but look for 250HP 250TQ. minimum. But because of the platform, the AWD mechanicals and such, I doubt the vehicle will be that much of a sprinter to compete with the Maxima. That's not really the 500/Montego's aim in the market.
  • bfc87hbfc87h Member Posts: 1
    I just joined this discussion. I am very interested in seeing more of the Montego, do you have more pictures than the one's posted at beginning? Particulary interested in seeing back of car and more of interior
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    Those are the only 2 official pictures that have been released to the media. As for rear, the best clue I can give you is look at the Ford Mondeo for some influence, as to what to expect. It's nothing too shocking, nor ugly, it's a very safe look, throw in some chrome details here and there.
  • heyjewelheyjewel Member Posts: 1,046
    I hate the name. Rather have it be Monterey or Montclair. Montego has little name recognition. (BTW: Monterey on a minivan is blasphemy. Like Ford calling theirs the Galaxie 500.)

    I like the looks of the sketch a lot. But aimed at the Avalon??? This car says 'sporty' to me from the outside. It Should be aimed at the Maxima as Daytona says. Why not a hot Mercury sedan/coupe to compete with Nissan, VW, ... Sounds like the Cyclone V6 (love that name) should be up to the task.

    That said, if the exterior looks anything like the sketch and they put that mazda-toyota-bland interior in it - it'd be off my list. The guage cluster is pathetic. No style at all. The center stack is better, but still bland. And Ford steering wheels are ill-designed and not appealing. IMHO.
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    The Cyclone sounds like it's up to the task, but considering the weight of the vehicle, it's performances will be a bit more than adequate, but nothing in the sub-7 range. Remember the vehicle is carrying an optional AWD version, that itself will add some weight as well.

    This vehicle isn't meant to be sporty, although from the sketch it looks that way. But it's just a sketch, notice the huge 18-19 inch wheels, and the lower stance. It may look sporty, but the vehicle will NOT have such wheels, and it'll possess higher ground clearance than what you see on there.

    Interior styling? You mentioned VW... Well the intrument panel/console/etc. Are very VW like if you wanted some VW-like. Same designer who worked for VW/Audi designed it.... The interior you see is exactly what will be.
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    http://www.wieck.com/public/*2PV_047707
    Montego Interior

    http://www.wieck.com/public/*2PV_046646
    Freestyle Interior

    Notice the similarities between the Freestyle interior, and the Montego interior. Considering they are both based on the same platform, and use pretty much the same mechanics, the dashboard have the same influence.

    The Freestyle differs in it's A/C vents which are circular. A new trend by Ford will be making their SUV/Trucks A/C vents circulat. Already the Expy has the same vents. Sedans will usually stick with square/rectagular vents. Montego also receives a clock between the center air vents.

    Also, let's notice how the Freestyle has a Navigation system style, type of stereo interchange. The Montego is shown with the similar layout, radio that debuts in the upcoming Freestar/Monterey. It's a very straight forward, simple, and aesthetically even in the way the buttons are arranged. Very symestrical. The center console/shift gate areas differ a bit as well. This picture shows it much closer. http://www.wieck.com/public/*2PV_046657

    On this picture... http://www.wieck.com/public/*2PV_046655
    WE see the door treatment. Notice the integrated cup holder. Notice how it's similar on the Montego picture as well.

    So far these are the only pictures shown to the public. These are all linked from Wieck Media.
  • hammyztshammyzts Member Posts: 9
    Did everyone miss the Ford statement about how they are tripling their investments of interiors??? They have made it abundantly clear that they plan on utilizing high-grade materials and spreading the costs around all the brands. The latest offerings under this new standard are the Navigator and Aviator. These two share much of the same styles, but are leagues ahead of the competition from the U.S. Go sit in a Cadi CTS and tell me you think it feels like a $30,000+ car. I have better interior materials in my Focus. Also, from what has been shown in the concepts of the 500, Freestyle, Montego, and the actual production F-150, it seems Ford is sticking to their word. The F-150 top of the line is quite polished and resembles the best from Audi and VW. Eventually this new interior focus will trickle down to everything within Ford, and we are all the better for it.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,285
    Do you literally mean Ford, or all Ford product's steering wheels are ugly? Because I can't agree with ya. The new Lincoln wheels are one of the things that not only sold me on the truck, but get the most compliments from guests in my Navigator. I tend to really like the new Ford Wheels generally, and like the ones in these pictures quite well too.

    Personally, I feel GM has the market cornered on ugly plain black steering wheels.
  • upsetter1upsetter1 Member Posts: 205
    Compare Montego interior with Ford Mondeo - very similar:

    http://www.autoreview.ru/cgi-bin/gallery.pl?idir=Ford/Mondeo_new
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    Yes, same designer.

    Ford is tripling it's investments for interior design/materials, etc. VW has done well in that sector, and has a high 'perceived quality' when it really doesn't. And considering people so much time inside their car, surely why not?
  • upsetter1upsetter1 Member Posts: 205
    Still Passat is considered to have higher quality interior than Mondeo. Ergonomics of Mondeo is superb, especially driving position, according to what I read in European press. It was designed using computer simulation, it means that ergonomics and cabin in general was scientifically designed in most optimal way. Mondeo has also better driving dynamics. But keep in mind that Passat is an older design. I am not sure that Mazda6 is as good as Mondeo, didn't see comparo with Mondeo yet.
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    Try Autoexpress.co.uk, or 4car.co.uk (2 european sites that test vehicles) they tested a new Mazda6 and gave it a great overall rating as well.

    The computer simulated testing is pretty much done on all vehicles. The Focus itself was tested so even older folks can reach the buttons, or gloved hands as well. Same with numerous other Ford vehicles. The SUV's go thru another battery of testing that allows for women and smaller framed people to be able to grab, reach, touch certain buttons/levers, etc.

    Ironically something I noticed about the Passat (I have 4 friends which own them, and swear they'll never own another again), at first the materials feel great, are nice, etc. But all are having issues with materials being misaligned thru time, or common one is the interior door outter stripping falling down, and no glue in the world can keep it up with the heat down here in Miami. Etc.

    I would just wish many of these auto-journalists would keep vehicles longer than a few weeks, so they are able to experience it's technical/quality faults. Then I'm sure they wouldn't boast about the vehicle as much as they do.

    There's huge investments for Ford interiors, the quality of the Montego's/500/Freestyle will be one of the best in it's category from what I've seen.
  • upsetter1upsetter1 Member Posts: 205
    Yeah I also heard about VW low quality issues in the long run (if 30,000 miles are considered as a long run)on Jetta/Golf. Complaints are breaking switches, power windows, flimsy plastic parts that look great but fall apart, and of course coils. VW always was this way, but they came with a great idea to make it look high quality now folks get attracted to VW thinking it is luxury, but it is not much different from Ford or Toyota. But still it is the German cars and has good engines and chassies.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,285
    performers, but high maintenance......
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    In total it's 12 friends I have, who bought them all because they were "trendy".... 7 of them were "I told you so" cases which I warned. All have had numerous issues with their vehicles. Not one will buy VW again. 4 of them have "tricks' to make things work.

    One Passat, the A/C fan turns off, if you slam the car door too hard, so at some stop lights you see us slamming doors to get it running again.

    Jetta's ALL have a burnt crayon smell inside, while all their Passat's have the moldy odor (One friend had to do a Lemon Law for that vehicle).

    One has a stereo which works "when" it wants to, the nickname is "The voice of God"... It just sporatically plays when it wants to. Must kick the dashboard/console tunnel to get working again.

    Another has an issue when she presses her horn, the Airbag light will light on and stay on for awhile. She learned if you HIT it hard enough, it goes away.

    Now while some people put down american vehicles because of their lack of reliability, or bad experience with them. I don't think I know of anyone that has had these rediculous little problems on their vehicles.

    Supposedly this year they their initial quality ratings increased, from last years Kia level lows. But initial quality is a VERY small factor survey to take, and I question most of those surveys anyways, but we won't get into that.

    Without getting too off topic. Major investments will be made to Ford interiors, and while some will look Passat like (as the Montego/500, Mondeo) their materials will be made to integrate and use less parts... Less parts = Less things of going wrong.
  • frasierdogfrasierdog Member Posts: 128
    Background:
    I am in my 30's. I drive a 96 Merc. Grand Marquis & 00 Expedition EB (Previous was a 91 XR7)
    Ford honors warrantees on intake leaks on Crown Vics but not Grand Marquis (Very disappointed)
    Considering switching to import for reliability reasons. Last chance Ford.

    Why I want for my money to go to Ford:

    1 Big comfortable seats (no leather covered bricks)
    2 Leg room in rear seat - Why spend $25-30K if I can't take 4 adults to lunch in comfort.
    3 Very quite interior - like a Grand Marquis
    4 Warrantee 5y, 75K miles - Ford stand behind your product
    5 Great radio with Sirius & MP3 player - be up to date with technology - cassette players for the 60y old drivers won't cut it - Have not used a cassette in 12 years. I don't care what your market research tells you, cassettes are DEAD!
    6 Keep all the amenities, foot well lights, door lights, theater lighting.
    Don't go make a cheap interior like Toyota. El cheapo floor carpet & el cheapo head liner in the Camery for $25k - Why can't the imports put good lighting in their cars?
    7 Don't make me take a sunroof to get some options. It is 100 deg in Texas in the summer, last thing I want is more sun in the car. Fine for some, not me.
    8 Road feed back is way over rated as well as sanity and sobriety.
    9 Get rid of the power pedals - waste of technology in a sedan.
    10 I will never pay $2k for NAV system I will use 3 times a year
    11 OnStar - My cell phone has better coverage. My friends have had very poor results with OnStar, never renewed their contracts.

    I put off my Accord/Camery purchase until the 500/Montego comes to market.
    I hope the wait is worth it!
    Make the first model year great.
    Fix the problems before it's released.
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    Interesting Post, let me see if I can shed on light on some of your concerns. First off, I would recommend the 2nd year 500/Montego run, where a larger engine will be introduced. And the first year kinks will be ironed out.

    1) They'll be supportive, but by all means, not what your used to in a Grand Marquis.
    2) Yes it'll be very spacious in leg room dept., the seating will be a bit more upright.
    3) Yes it will be quiet overall.
    4) Extended warranty can always be purchased. Although I would press the issue if your having problems with yours. If you must contact Ford HQ everyday, to solve the issue, then I would.
    5)CD player standard.
    6) Interior will use very good materials all around, details will be much higher caliber for a product in that price range. Imports use the lighting as a cost cutting feature, which is why many of them do not even have lighted window/switch buttons at that.
    7) Sunroof group option, I'm not sure on that one, too early to tell. But being 500/Montego are related, you will find option groups, grouped differently for each vehicle, so chances are you might find what your looking for.
    8) Roadability, handling and control will be european like, but without being uncomfortable. Do not expect a Town Car ride though.
    9) Power Pedals are one of the higesht options people have picked on Ford vehicles lately, they are here to stay.
    10) I agree, it'll be a stand alone option, and I doubt it'll be available on the first year run.
    11) Ford has a contract with Sirius, instead of OnStar. I've never been fond of using such systems, another toy than can break in my opinion. But Ford doesn't push it on you, as OnStar does.
  • frasierdogfrasierdog Member Posts: 128
    When does the Crown Vic/Grand Marquis get a redesign?

    What direction will Ford be taking these cars?

    Thanks
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    The graveyard...

    There's "word" that Ford will be building the next generation of Falcon sedans, here in the U.S., considering they will be uni-body, over body on frame, they might be more favorable towards consumers. So the CV/GM will be left pretty much towards fleet sales, and police dept's, so far they don't have a life past 2008-2010.
  • a_l_hubcapsa_l_hubcaps Member Posts: 518
    It's interesting that Ford seems to be getting out of the RWD business just as Chrysler is getting in. I wonder if we'll see mainly fleets of Chrysler 300 police cars in 2010?

    -Andrew L
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    Fleets is mainly the issue that has lowered resale value for numerous domestic vehicles. Which is why Ford will push the Taurus, and CV towards rental car fleets and such, while keeping vehicles such as the Futura, 500/Montego, for regular consumer's.

    It's ironic how Ford is entering the Full-size FWD/AWD market, when Chrysler is going the opposite way. But this doesn't mean that Ford doesn't have a replacement (alternative) to the CV. Currently they are studying versions of the Australian Falcon, for Ford NA.

    Overall, unit wise, Ford produces more RWD vehicles than any other automaker. Therefore they aren't abandoning the RWD business, considering some of their best vehicles in history, have been RWD.
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    Update: Considering the Ford 500 thread has not been reactivated yet, and the Montego is the sister of the 500, attached is a link to TCC.Com where they have some spy pics of the upcoming 500. It's very well covered (at least the details) but you can at least visualize the shape and the dimensions of the vehicle itself...

    http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=6163&sid=17- 8&n=158

    Source: The Car Connection. Spy Pics: Brenda Priddy
  • hammyztshammyzts Member Posts: 9
    Do you know which engine will be used in the 05 mustang GT? You seem to know a lot about Ford, andI am very interested in the upcoming Mustang. I have heard it will have the current 4.6 in it, but that it might be tuned to offer around 300 hp. I really want at least 300 hp, and I heard it will not debut until the MY06. Why are they waiting?
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    The Mustang project is very tight lipped, and them being able to decide which engine, and how much it'll finally pump out, are things that are changing weekly. They are trying to refine the vehicle as much as possible, and making sure it's an absolute trouble-free launch.

    First there's word that they'll use the 4.0L SOHC V6 as the base engine. Then they wanted to use the 3.0L Duratec. Then latest word is the 3.9L OHV V6 (I HATE that engine-it's really the 3.8L), so all senario's are still being considered. Their main worry right now is weight.

    As for the 4.6L, Ford is implementing 3V's on their 5.4L, and later, 4.6L. If you see them push back the introduction of the vehicle, it might be to introduce the vehicle with this updated powerplant. But even in current form, it can still reach close to 300HP, but again.... that's still being reviewed. They are meditating for answers on every detail.
  • libertycatlibertycat Member Posts: 593
    Daimler Chrysler is slightly different than Ford. Ford is getting rid of old-fashioned V8 HUGE bulky RWD sedans. DC is making all of their MODERN cars RWD.
  • libertycatlibertycat Member Posts: 593
    Do u work for Ford? I know almost as much as u do and I don't. I was just curious if you are just a car freak like me who finds out everything about cars or a Ford employee.
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    I plead the 5th.
This discussion has been closed.