Redesign of Yukon/Tahoe

adj032

The 2003 C1500 and Sierra Trucks had a face lift on the front and interior, usually Yukons and Tahoes follow the the next year. Is there going to be changes in 2004 Yukon/Tahoe?

marc_orl

I have not been able to get any information on this subject. I am considering a 2003 Tahoe at the moment and I want to at least know if the Tahoe will get a new look, that way I can decide which one I like best and either wait or buy.

chile96

From what I've heard, the front end will be redisigned to look more like the avalanche and trailblazer. OTOH, I haven't heard if that will be MY 2004 or 2005, however most feel 2004. Let me know if you hear something different.

fo

yukon97

I have heard that the redisgn will be in 2005. It will look nothing like the trailblazer. It will have a 'rado front end. it will also not look exactly like the Ave.

marc_orl

The way I figure it, someone has to know something about this. I'm surprised that there are no spy shots of a redesigned Tahoe. Its May already and the new model year trucks will be out in 3-5 months. This leads me to believe that the redesign, if any, will not come until at least 2005, but I have no independent confirmation of this assertion.

GM could be waiting until both the Silverado and the Tahoe undergo a complete overhaul with new styling. That way, GM keeps the more conservative present day styling of the popular Tahoe around for a while longer, while making the Silverado a bit edgy with its new look.

glsable

IMHO the Avalanche nose is u-g-l-y. Apparently someone at Chevy has decided to slap it onto everything (Avalanche, Silverado, Express, even the Malibu!) just as Cadillac is doing with the hatchet-cut front end on the Brougham, Escalade, CTS and XLR. Not a great moment in GM styling history! :-)

Fortunately we just bought a 2003!

ianshaw

Within the last several months, there was a discussion about the redesign on the Tahoe discussion board. In that thread, several people indicated that the Tahoe will NOT be re designed for 2004. There was a link to a picture of the 04 Tahoe. It will have new rims (like those on the 02 and earlier Silverado trucks) and some other minor changes.

Undoubtedly, GM will discontinue some standard equipment and yet increase the price!! That 0% financing for 60 months ain't free!!!

jchan2

guess what? A new concept here!!!!!! Raise the price while cutting equipment and then offer $3000 cash!

dardson1

It is kinda interesting. I have an 02 LS lightly equipped. Listed for $34.4k. Eighteen months later an 03 (as closely optioned as I can get it) is $2910 more. Specifically the options I added to the 03 over and above those I bought on my 02 that were standard (then) are side air bags, cargo pkg , and universal overhead door opener (which for the record includes adjustable pedals and radio controls on the steering wheel). So much for the 3k rebate.
   With near zero inflation a 9% price increase in 18 months is nothing but an advertising scheme by the marketing department. I seriously consider a trade based on all the hype until I did the math. I bought my car at invoice and got a $2002 rebate. Same/same deal today at invoice and a $3000 rebate would be right at $1500 more.
    All things considered these trucks are a good value, but I'm not too crazy about the numbers game GM is playing.

bkkatz

How do you think GM is able to keep offering 0% financing?

Since the zero percent came out, GM has systematically raised the price of their vehicles about every 60 days. Its no wonder the identical vehicle is $1500-$2000 more. The cost to build them hasn't gone up that much....but they have to make their money somewhere.

jchan2

they say something like "This is a marketing scheme. There is no rebate- we just raised the price and then offered a rebate".

jchan2

he, he, he.....................

dardson1

they've done way more than just raise the price and give it back in a rebate. Same/same vehicle with a 3k rebate vs a 2k rebate is $1500 more than it was 18 months ago (and, by the way, 0% was available the first half of the 02 model year vs a rebate the second half). Any way you look at it the same/same vehicle is out the door at 6% more in a near zero inflationary period 18 months later.

rugeti

The fact of the matter is that the bottom has fallen out on the effective pricing of these cars. I just bought a loaded Tahoe for $35k, and could find that deal all day long. For comparison, I bought a loaded '98 Tahoe new for $38k.

jchan2

Yeah, but you've lost some equipment that 98 had that you had to buy optional on the 2003 you just picked up.

rugeti

But that's not my point. This car has everything my old one had and more, Autoride, XM, Onstar, memory seats, 3rd row seat, 2nd row buckets, in-dash CD changer, tri-zone climate control, and more. On top of all that, it's a completely new style which you know is far superior in ride and handling to the old one.

Whether all this stuff was standard or optional doesn't matter when you look at the bottom line. I paid $3k less for a better car 5 years later.

jchan2

He, he, he.... Chevrolet did this to the new Malibu- intentionally raise the price and then slap a rebate.

blockislandguy

OK , we all agree that we live in a zero inflation environment and additionally commodities, a lot of which wind up in vehicles, are dropping in price. But GM's COSTS may still be going up. Don't they have a huge inverted pyramid (compared to the number of present union employees) of retired union workers drawing pensions, health care benefits, etc. etc.? Kind of like a precursor to our looming SSI problem?

dardson1

There was a great program on cable last week with an auto industry expert. The discussion was not about whether the American auto industry will thrive, but if it could survive. The Japanese (mostly) have opened non union car plants in the South where they pay labor $14 per hour on average + benefits (she didn't put a number on those benefits). Detroit pays on average $27 per hour. When she added in benefits + support for the retired worker benefits it was $70 per hour. Kinda makes you wonder how they can make anything at the prices they do. She mentioned that GM is the largest buyer of Viagra in the world...lol.
    A generation ago the "smart boys" mortgaged the future. The "smart boys" today are scrambling to make the math work. It's too bad.

rugeti

It's funny, but I switched from buying a Toyota at the last minute when I saw the ridiculous deals offered on the 2003 Tahoe. After I brought it home I told my wife that although I was happy to bring home a $45k car for $35k, I really felt bad for the US auto manufacturers and employees. I don't know how they can keep it up without sacrificing quality. In my opinion quality problems are what got them here is the first place. Not a good sign.

blockislandguy

Rugeti, you didn't get a 45K car for 35K. You got a 35K car for 35K. This is a market economy. What you and others pay for something is what it is worth.

dardson1

If you compare similar Tahoes and Sequoias, the Chevy can easily seem like a $45k vehicle for $35k. I suspect price on both vehicles has more to do with supply than demand. When I bought my Tahoe almost 2 years ago my local Toyota dealer never had more than 10 or 12 vehicles on the lot. The four Chevy dealers in my area probably had 250 Tahoes combined. I shopped both (Toyota and Chevy) and came away with the same conclusion as Rugeti.......that I saved $9k buying a Chevy.

rugeti1

Sure. I know plenty about economics. Can't argue that I paid market for it.

How do you think Chevy feels about these economics? Think they are making the same margins? That was my point. This "market" pricing may not be sustainable for GM.

Saw article yesterday that said while GM's volume is up, its EPS may go down by 50%.

rugeti

Sounds like our car interests came from the same mold. I read your profile and I have had many of the same cars, BMW, Merecedes, Toyota, etc. I now own a Lexus and a Tahoe (about a month old).

I agree with you. The Lexus is by far the best all-around lux car I've had. The funny thing though is that the Tahoe may be our best car ever. The ride (with Autoride) is amazing! I upgraded the wheels and tires and it is now even better. I keep trying to get my wife to trade with me! I was also very disappointed with Mercedes.

jspmatrix

Boys, has anyone heard if the 2 door might make a comeback in '05? I have seen the images of the "avalanche" looking 2 door concept and was not thoroughly impressed. Currently I am in a 2002 Z71 4dr. I love the truck that I am in, but would love to get back into a 2 door model. If anyone has any thoughts please let me know.

dardson1

when the redesign comes that GM doesn't try to re-invent the wheel. They spent a healthy 10 years turning a pretty good truck (1995) into a very good one. Had a 96 that I liked inspite of the terrible brakes and infamous drive-train thud. The new Tahoe may look a bit like the early version (including that cheesy fabric they use on their cloth seats), but it is different and a way better car in almost every way.
   I'd like to see GM address that irritating engine clatter when started up cold. I've owned 3 GM trucks and they all did it. Apparently it doesn't kill these engines. A day rarely passes I don't see a 20-25 year old Suburban moving down the road....lol. Can't say that about everything.

blockislandguy

I think we all agree that the Tahoe LT is a heck of a buy at 35K and is probably the equal in every aspect to the 45K Sequoia. So, how can Toyota command that price advantage when IMHO the underlying product is basically no better. Maybe simply branding. In other words, Toyota is maybe perceived to be the superior brand and people associate that with qualilty, longevity, better dealers, better resale, etc. etc.

Speaking of dealers, where would the kind of person (let's be frank, an upper middle class person) in the market for an additional 40K family vehicle more likely have an unpleasant, degrading shuck 'n jive experience: at one of the General's stores or at a Toy store? (Funny isn't how that 10K difference can be in part attributed to just a better dealer experience? The quality of dealer experience may go a long way in explaining why a lot of people are going import.)

Attn: Rugeti, what did you upgrade the tire/wheel package to?

dardson1

I lost my mind, briefly, and bought a loaded up 01 Toyota Sienna with an MSRP of $33.5k. It seemed like the PC thing to do after my very un-PC Expedition. On paper the minivan with lotsa room, 210hp engine, and Toyota reputation seemed very smart. To be fair, the Sienna power train was great....... quick, smooth, and very quiet......but, I've never had a new car that squeeked, rattled, and groaned like that minivan. According to the service manager, all the noises were considered "normal". Very Toyota to call a problem, no problem.
   I really bought the thing for the promised 19mpg city driving. Averaged 16ish on premium fuel (per the book). My fuel bill went down a bit after loosing the PC Sienna for my 2wd Tahoe where I get close to 15 on regular gas.
    I changed my oil at the Toyota dealer every 3k miles which usually took an hour........it would have been nice to go to a quick change but the "sludge" issue (true or not) had me worried enough to spend the hour there every 3 months getting a certified oil change. The whole time I had the Toyota I felt like I had a sick child.
     As you said, it's a matter of perception. I never keep a car long enough to evaluate it after 5 years. Perhaps Toyota does better there, but the oldest things I see on the road are Suburbans....lol. Maybe it's a case of the Emperor's New Clothes. Love my Tahoe after 19 months.

tbcreative

Check in to Mexico. I've heard you can get a 2-Door Tahoe, or a Ram Charger there. I've actually seen the Ram Charger, here in Arizona (based on the last generation Ram design), and I have a spy picture from a couple of years ago of a 2-Door Tahoe Z71, just after the redesign of the Tahoe/Yukon came out. I was told at the time that they were going to be available in Mexico.

It's worth a check...

rugeti

I upgraded to 18" Antera 301 wheels, which were enough to add some nice cornering rigidity, without compromising the ride. People tried to talk me into 20's, but I didn't want to risk a rough ride, or even worse bending the wheels. This has happened to me before with what were supposedly "quality" wheels.

As for tires, I put on Michelin Pilot LTX's. They were significantly more expensive than others I could have found, but handle great and are very quiet. From what I've heard, if you are going to put an 18" wheel on a Sub/Tahoe/Yukon, these are the way to go, unless of course you want an offroad tire.

On the topic of dealers, it's hard to say for me. This recent Chevy dealer may have been my most painless experience. I've had an experience with Mercedes which may have been my worst. Lexus has been the best all around. Toyota has been hit and miss. BMW has been so-so. Of course this varies from dealer to dealer among the same brand. I'm not sure what any of these are like across the board. I imagine it's probably different than what I've experienced.