Subaru XT Turbo Forester

bsumpter

I hated the hill holder at first, very annoying in stop & go traffic on a mild incline. But after several thousand miles it loosened up to the point where it didn't drag the brakes until the clutch was fully out, and engages just enough to keep you from rolling backwards. Seems like it was in the 3,000-5,000 miles range...

zman

I could not agree more re: the WRX STi manual transmission and suspension for the F-XT.

Zman

p0926

Zman- I have the MT.

Re hill holder: I was one of the early skeptics but I've since converted :-) I have heard though that some come too grabby from the factory but that's easily adjusted.

-Frank P.

zman

Thanks. My wife (who will drive only a MT, bless her soul) is encouraged by your experience with the highway mileage. I am encouraged by my wife's being encouraged.

Zman

ateixeira

The sheet I saw listed new models, didn't mention leather at all.

-juice

samiam_68

Mine was very annoying when I first got the car, but then I had it adjusted by the dealer during my first oil change (5 minutes, free of charge). It now works beautifully and engages only when I press the brake real hard (as in to hold the car up a big hill).

bluesubie

It was annoying to me at first, but gets better over time.

Don't forget that there's a strong chance that it was because of the "Crew" that it was even added (along with about a dozen changes in '03)! Sorry if you guys don't like it. I think I may have been one of the folks that requested it. :-)

-Dennis

ateixeira

Indeed, we asked for it. )

-juice

miamixt

the M/T, & the A/T XT because you can always get a New Car, but you can't always get a new Wife, or can you?

subewannabe

A close friend of my wife who is very urban, liberal, eco-friendly was moving up to my area from the flatlands last fall and was convinced she needed something more capable in the mountains and snow than a Volvo wagon because she would be communting 45 miles each way to work . I suggested she look at the Forester and consider the XT. One drive was all it took...Cayenne RED FXT PP...six months later she still has a permanent turbo grin on her face!

Mark

subearu

Took my IMBA VIP paperwork to the dealer tonight. No Java Black MT with the bumper cover/cargo tray/spash guards AND boost gauge on the lot, and none in their queue. They won't install the gauge, they prefer the port does that job. So, lucky me gets the honor of dibs on one right from Subaru that matches my option list. Expected delivery mid-April or so. 8)

All that for invoice and no funny fees. Couldn't have been an easier transaction. Anyone contemplating the VIP option, it's worth the 1 year membership @ IMBA, no doubt.

So, can I still sit on the fence while I'm waiting for it to come in?

-Brian

stever

I think that's called straddle the saddle.

(humming a Carly Simon refrain for you)

Steve, Host

hypov

The waiting begins ;-)

-Dave

ballistic

The CG-Lock seatbelt gizmo arrived today, and I can't call it successful. It definitely did hold me in place much better, as I hoped it would, so the 1-way knurled cam portion works fine. However, the assembly has to clamp onto the plastic-covered part of the metal tongue that clips into the seatbelt buckle. Therein lies the problem.

The CG-Lock attaches to the plastic part of the tongue with two pieces of flat metal that fit over the front and back of the plastic tongue. The two metal pieces then clamp together via two Allen screws. Mine has come off twice so far, even though I screwed the Allen screws in as tightly as I dared. If I tried to clamp it any tighter, I think the Allen wrench would probably snap. Even then, I don't think the device will stay attached to the Subaru seatbelt tongue.

Possibly it would work better on differently-shaped seatbelt tongues of other cars, but I'm not optimistic. What's needed is to replace the entire stock tongue with another that incorporates the CG-Lock mechanism into a single integrated item.

Good idea, and I really need something that accomplishes this function, but I'll be sending the CG-Lock back.

volkov

I am leaving after this post to pick up my new WRX wagon. Had been hanging around the boards as I tried to decide between the WRX vs a Forester/CR-V as the final fun versus function decision. Someone recommended the F-XT as an alternative. I was disappointed on my first try with it, because it wouldn't accommodate a middle booster seat properly because of the seat belt latch spacing. Anyway, I shopped around until I found booster with a narrower frame track, and went back. Test drove the XT and liked it, but I'll still take the WRX. Yep it is a touch slower on a straight line 0-60, but who drives like that? Come do timed routes on my local rural roads and the 'Rex will destroy the XT. Even at the same speed the WRX "feels" faster and a heck of a lot more stable. Anyone remember the original Civic Si? It wasn't that fast, but it felt fast. I loved that feeling in my Civic and just got it back when I test drove the WRX. Don't get me wrong, I'd kill to have your low end torque in the WRX wagon, and you guys get to gobble all that extra power for only $1K more than the XS premium. It's not fair, man, I had to shell out much for for a smaller and I'm sure cheaper engine upgrade. :-(
Still, if I had decided on the Forester I would have stuck with the XS. No matter how big or powerful an engine you drop in that puppy, it's no sports car. I actually found the handling worse in the XT than the XS - big surprise right - more power means the car gets thrown around more. I just hope we don't have a bunch of kids modding Dad's old F-XT in a couple of years. That could get real scary if they don't do the suspension upgrades, then Foresters will become the Ford Explorers of the new millenium. Roll, roll, roll. Enjoy guys.

hypov

Jack-
Shame it didn't fit. Would have been a plus for you.

I'm sure there are other manufacturer out there with a similar product. I'll point you over when I come across it.

-Dave

ace1000

On this week's Car Talk show, two callers talked about their Forester and Outback clutches wearing out early (segments 5 and 6). Ray said that he is not a fan of Subaru clutches. They don't seem to last as long as those in other cars and his shop replaces a lot of them early in the Subarus' life. This would be another argument in favor of the automatic in the XT.

samiam_68

I sold my 96 Legacy with 58,000 miles, all on the original clutch in perfect working condition. I don't think my XT clutch is going to go anytime soon.

zor

ace,

Thanks for that pointer! Ray does know what he's talking about. I was leaning toward stick, but a short-lived clutch could tip the scales.

Does anyone know how well the 4EAT holds up?

-Zor

bpratico

I'm considering getting a manual XT. My dilemma is that I'm afraid I've been spoiled. I'm currently driving a 96 RAV4 with 140,000 miles that has not had one thing go wrong (not even a light bulb burn out.)

Current XT owners: How reliable is the XT? Specifically - have you had to take it back to the dealer for anything other than normal maintenance? If so, for what? Thanks,

johnb2251

How reliable is the XT?

I was wondering about this too. I haven't had any problems with mine yet, but several people on nasioc have had problems with rear differentials. Anyone here experience problems with diff's?

njswamplands

pon1

Any current owners want to comment on volkov's review of the Forester XT and stability, and the need to mod the standard car's suspension to handle the power. How important is this to the 95% of us that dont push the car to its limits. How do I explain this to my significant other - "honey, we have to pay $1000 to turn the new Forester back into a wagon"?

Does this logic also apply to the new 250hp Outback, with I assume similar ground clearance? Is the Outback a better "sports car" for those of us who want to combine performance and light off-road ability??

I always thought my Forester L was pretty stable, even compared to a regular wagon. Several emergency lane changes made without great drama. Use the extra power of the XT in the wrong situation, and sure you could get into trouble and barrel-roll into the ditch. And I agree maybe the XT is not a suitable vehicle for a young/inexperienced/fearless driver (my kids have not been born yet, they will likely learn in a hybrid/h2 powered vehicle).

I also dont completely buy the idea that the XS handles better than the XT, I think it's more likely that the XT is driven harder and the handling deficiencies show up more clearly, particularly on test drives.

paisan

They should handle fine un-modified. However if you start adding power you'll likely want to do suspension and brakes BEFORE you do any power mods.

Those of us who do a lot of mods or perform mods or track/auto-x know the rule is:

Tires/Wheels
Suspension
Brakes
Driver Training
More Driver Training
Even More Driver Training

Then Power Modifications...

-mike

bobshere1

I thought Outback handled twistys better than FXT when I tested them. I would have bought a Pilot or MDX instead of Outback though. I wanted FXT Zoom, so my solution was to spend some extra bucks on 17" wheels/tires and rear sway bar. If you sell your OEM wheels/tires, you are looking at as little as $500 for this. I think if you're worrying about spending that kind of dough you probably wouldn't want to spend the extra money gas for an FXT is going to cost. You've got to pay to play. Of course, FXT is a perfectly fine vehicle without these mods; but it is so so much better handling with them, for such a small expenditure, that many of us are willing to pay to have this done.
      Bob

atlgaxt

that F / XTs will become the Explorers of the new millennium. While it's true that the roofs of these cars stick up a little higher than most other cars, Foresters have comparably low center of gravities as compared to other compact or midsize cars due to engine design and the AWD. And while Foresters are not built to be race cars, the handling is very balanced and stable.

BTW, 5 months, 6,000 + miles, zero mechanical problems.

njswamplands

p0926

Stability is relative but the FXT is one of the most stable mini-SUVs on the market. Mainly because it sits lower to the ground but also because the boxer design contributes to a lower center of gravity. The suspension bits on the XT are identical to those of the XS so they handle the same. Volkov's assertion that the FXT is less stable than the XS presumes that the driver will drive more aggressively. His comment about the handling being scary without suspension upgrades was based on the assumption that an inexperienced driver would only mod the engine for more power and ignore the suspension. The Forester handles fine with the stock suspension. Upgrade to 17” wheels, better rubber and stiffer suspension and the Forester will handle even better.

Bottom line is that the Forester is one of the safest mini-SUVs on the market. Yes a sports car (or most any sedan for that matter) will handle better but then the Forester will handle better than any truck or mid-size and larger SUV.

-Frank P.

bluesubie

"Any current owners want to comment on volkov's review of the Forester XT and stability, and the need to mod the standard car's suspension to handle the power."

I already commented in one of the other numerous places this thread was posted. Having owned a WRX wagon for a year, the post is full of inaccuracies and misinformation. ;-) The WRX does handle better, but his description of the XT is a little off.

swampy - IIRC, Bob got Rota SDR's and Falken Ziex 512 in 225/50-17.

-Denis

ateixeira

Keep something in mind - the first gen Foresters were very stable, the only one I ever heard of rolling over was lifted big time, it was a guy in Australia that had a 4" lift on his. And he was off road anyway.

By the way, none of the glass even broke, a testament to the rigidity of the Forester's unibody.

Then take into account that the 2nd generation has a wider track and got aluminum roof rails, which means less weight up high, which means an even lower CofG. So it only got better.

You'll lose traction and skid/slide long before it tips over.

Clutch life - my 1998 still has the original clutch at 60k miles, and no slipping. Honestly, I think the issue may have been clutch feel, not clutch life. Some people replaced them due to clutch chatter, not clutch failure. I don't recall complaints of clutches slipping, for instance.

-juice

volkov

30 lines of public service. :-(
Sorry if my post above was misleading. I will try to clarify.
Preamble. I drive on snow covered roads Nov-Apr. City streets are fine but secondary roads are rarely plowed up here, so traction and control are at a premium when I venture out of the city. Part of my standard test loop for a vehicle is a winding gravel road and a broad gravel covered parking field which is empty. Currently our gravel roads are an even mix of mud, gravel and packed snow/ice. This presents an excellent place to explore traction limits in a safe situation (lower speed and no traffic) and without terrifying car salesmen. Most people never do these exercises on a test drive. Most drivers have never pushed their own vehicles to this limit. They should, but that's another rant.
 
POINT 1: I think the XT handles very well. Better than any SUV I've actually driven. Maybe because it's not really an SUV (it's better,but don't tell the average consumer that).On my test drives I make a point of pushing traction/handling limits. What I meant was that when accelerating through/out of a turn, the extra power of the XT naturally induces more body roll than the XS. It's much easier to get it going faster if you are mashing the gas pedal. (PLEASE NOTE:I DO NOT DRIVE LIKE THIS ON MY DAILY COMMUTE!!)
 I sincerely doubt anyone would find the handling is any different between an XS and XT in day to day driving if you drive both vehicles the same way (and not like a lunatic).

PLEASE NOTE #2: The non Subie vehicles I tested didn't just have body roll - they broke loose and drifted. Yes, I could have drifted the Subies too, but that would have required more speed and I made a point of doing the same speed for certain turns to get a decent comparison.Drifting the Rex is my project for this weekend ;-)

POINT 2: In no way did I intend to suggest that the XT was unsafe with more power. My comment about kids and XT's was really a bit of a joke and in no way a criticism of the vehicle. Don't any of you remember being 17?? This is a detuned but very powerful engine that will have all sorts of readily available mods due to crossover from the STi. Paisan knows I'm sure that the for young kids the upgrade list goes : Horsepower, Stereo, Horsepower, Rims, Horsepower, window tinting, driver training? what's that?, give me more horsepower. I'd expect the output can easily be pushed well past 300hp. Put that in the hands of inexperienced drivers who think that AWD means it can't lose control at any speed and it's a recipe for disaster. That was my point. It was not a caution to potential buyers, well maybe just a caution when it comes to handing it down to their kids. Still, it's probably safer than the majority of overpowered SUV's currently stuffing the market.
My sincere apologies if I came across as a blow hard, and I hope I didn't mislead anyone.

pon1

Having spent 100,000 km in a gen 1 forester and about 6 hrs in an XT on test drives, the only comment I have on stability is it is very easy to be going much faster than you intend in an XT, and changing direction at higher speeds is only partly about the car and much more about the laws of physics.

I have no concerns regarding forester stability (any model), just wanted to clarify how important people thought the handling mods really were if the motor remains stock. I want to keep the ground clearance and the ride height, so lowering would be a disadvantage.

bluesubie

would be for SoA to at least offer a sportier suspension set up. They are offering some things through SPT now (STi springs).

The WRX is the better handler stock, but the XT is very close and a couple of mods will improve the handling considerably. :-)

-Dennis

pon1

The primary mod in question is the Sti rear sway bar and bushings that bolt in right in place of the stock sway bar? I assume this does not change the ride hight.

Having said all I just said, I wonder if I can get this fitted prior to delivery of our FXT and just pay the difference.

volkov

The "roll, roll, roll" was meant as a comment on Explorers. What I was trying to do was make a smart @ss comment about how suped up Foresters (modified, not a stock XT) in the hands of teenagers who drive as recklessly as I type could be a recipe for disaster. I spend many of my nights working on young people who pushed their motorcycle/snowmobile/car/mountain bike beyond their limits. This weekend we harvested organs from a teenager who took off in the family SUV after an argument and rolled it within a mile of his house.

BTW I agree that an XT with WRX or STi suspension just might be the perfect vehicle in my world. But I'd have no chance of testing one so it wasn't an option.

ballistic

Any car - or truck, SUV, minivan, motorcycle, whatever - in the hands of an inexperienced and/or overconfident driver (young, old, in-between) has the potential to instantly become a lethal weapon. It is not the fault of Subaru (and certainly not the XT) if people drive it beyond its well-above-average limits and injure themselves or others.

akasrp

Any car - or truck, SUV, minivan, motorcycle, whatever - in the hands of an inexperienced and/or overconfident driver (young, old, in-between) has the potential to instantly become a lethal weapon

word.

srp

fwiw, my now officially broken in XT (had to do another Mad Max 200 mile RT L.A. run yesterday) delights more and more each day. despite all my initial grumblings, i believe i have purchased the bang-for-the-buck vehicle of 2004 - and would do it again in a palpitating heartbeat...despite the sultry come hither look a new Black Acura TL just gave me in Costco's Parking lot...jeez, some girls...

krccrk

Nine months without any problems, unless you count the braindead design of the climate control system.

As far as handling, I preferred my 2001 forester S. Not as nose heavy and less steering wheel boost.

And yes AWD cars have more clutch problems, something has to give.

Ken

volkov

Was anyone surprised that the STi and the Forester XT weren't even nominated for Car and Drivers top ten for 2004?

john284

I am glad that they are not nominated, I like to drive a sleeper, a stealth, a mommymobile that can smoke a showoff...

Will there be any suspension upgrade for the FXT in 05?

corkfish

I just hope they don't offer an STI Forester until 2006 at the earliest. I'll lose a ton on trading in my FXT. Suspension upgrades would be nice, I don't care what anyone says, it may handle well for a mini-ute, but compared to everything else, this thing is pretty rolly-polly. There's absoulutely no road feel through the steering at all, like you're driving a Buick LeSabre or something. It is great in a straight line though.

paisan

Have you driven other cars out there? The FXT is anything but buick le-sabre feel! It's built on the Impreza chassis and not much is changed so my guess is that it's more mental than anything.

-mike

bluesubie

pon - No, the swaybar does not change the ride height. I think some folks might be replacing the swaybar alone. Others are replacing the bushings, brackets and mounts. Carter Subaru (allsubaru.com) and Subaru of Gwinnett in GA both offer a complete package for around $130 shipped.

volkov - Ok, I misunderstood the roll comment. :-)
corkfish - Get some lower profile non light truck tires. It should help the steering feel. I'm still trying to decide what to do about tires.

Oh, the less hype the better. Hype probably had a hand in all of the WRX thefts in my area. :-(

-Dennis

miamixt

the XT is a great 0 to 60 MPH straight line Car, absolutely fun, but it does have it's limitations. Keep Driving Responsibly© , as to keep the accident and Insurance rates at a reasonable price

atlgaxt

For all you looking for less hype, sorry to burst your bubble. Forester XT was not on the C&D Top Ten list of cars because they considered it to be a truck, picking it as the best small SUV. Interestingly so did Consumer Reports (OK - they picked the Forester, not specifying the XT only). Quite an accomplishment for two mags on opposite sides of the spectrum to both like your cars.

I think part of the problem with the Forester not getting more awards is associated with confusion as to how to classify it. Personally, although I bought it because of its wide range of capabilities, I really do not consider it to be an SUV.

The fact that the WRX STI was not on the C&D top ten list did disappoint me a little bit. The WRX was on for two previous years but fell off. But the STI did win the reader's choice award for Road and Track, beating out every other sporty car available.

njswamplands

you should drive it after driving an odyssey on mountain roads. the fxt is porsche like compared to the van. now the van drives like a buick boatmaster and the odyssey is the best handling van. btw my father-in-law has a buick and driving it is a true lesson on how not to ever feel the road.

ateixeira

ken: you really fell there's more boost in the steering?

Thing is, they did make the ratio quicker, it went from 19:1 to 16:1. So perhaps to offset that extra effort, they added power steering boost.

And by the way, Forester was not on C&D's 10Best Cars list because it was a winner of their 5Best Trucks!

CR rates it #1 overall, near the top in reliability, and #1 in their passive/active Safety Assessment.

-juice

bluesubie

Quite an honor for a boxy Subaru Impreza. :-)

-Dennis

ateixeira

5Best, actually, they only pick 5 trucks (and 10 cars).

Forester was the #1 small SUV. They only pick one from each category. It beat the BMW X3.

-juice

miamixt

I would rather dump my XT before ever stepping foot in my selling Dealers Store again. By plunking down $1100 plus tax, I now can be towed to any Subaru Dealer, or as far as $100 will take me. Word of advice, make sure your Dealer has qualified Service Personnel, and Factory Parts, and that the Shirt the Employee is wearing doesn't say Daewoo on it, always a bad sign!