Customer Satisfaction Surveys

wtd44

I think we agree that fairness on both sides is the way to go. It's a contest, but should not be allowed to deteriorate into a grudge match.

exb0

Speaking of CSI

Last Honda survey I filled out had a section on “what other dealers have you shopped at, but haven’t purchased from” (or something like that), and a few questions about those dealer experiences. How do our remarks in this section affect those “other” dealers?

wtd44

I would assume the questionnaire providing company wants to determine which other brands represent the greatest potential for strong competition. I do not readily see that the survey has any appreciable effect on the other company at all.

exb0

I guess I should have been clearer. The question was more like what other Honda dealers have you shopped at.

art_vandelay

I just took delivery on a new Mustang. When the "customer care manager" got to the point in the discussion where he told me about the survey, he did say that anything less than "completely satisfied" was a failing grade, and that if I had a good experience they'd appreciate me grading them on all items as "completely satisfied", but he never offered anything in exchange for me doing so, nor did he ask me to bring it in to the dealership to fill it out there. My salesman also said the same thing. No bribery, no coercion.

I had a completely no-stress, no B.S. experience with this purchase and would be giving them the highest marks anyway, but I kinda got my hopes up after reading everyone else's posts that I'd at least get a free oil change out of 'em!

bobst

I went to the bank to draw out some money.

As I was leaving, I was thinking, "They should have given me $5 because I didn't try to hold them up. I should be paid for being honest."

art_vandelay

Come on now bobst, I was joking... hence the smiley face. Good grief man, lighten up!

alfox

bobst doesn't joke about the car business. This is serious stuff!

oregonboy

Bob does joke, and I believe he was joking. (He can be pretty subtle). But then alfox was joking too.

bobst

Heck, this whole DG is a joke, isn't it? If I wanted to do something serious, I would be practicing my putting stroke.

joshs

I'm a teacher, but my perspective might be different. When I bought from Acura/Honda, the salesman told me "anything less than 5 is a failure" and that the dealership would give me something (I think an oil change and a car wash) for a perfect survey.

Rather than complain about the unfairness of it all, why not look at it pragmatically. Would people be happier if the dealership said: Any score except 'George' is a failure? It seems like people are getting hung up on numbers, which is silly. When I give an 'A' in a class, I designate exceptional work; a 'C' designates average or acceptable work. If a 5 designates average or acceptable work for Honda (or a 10 for Toyota, etc), then use the terms as we get them.

As for the "it's not my problem" argument--it really is. If the businesses we like don't get some kind of reward versus the ones we don't, then we aren't encouraging good practices. We might get stuck with bad ones as a result.

In my case, I gave 5s and asked the person if I could give the salesman a '6' because of his attitude. She entered this as "Liked the salesman's friendliness" in the subjective part and we all moved on.

rroyce10

....... **I would be practicing my putting stroke**

       Speaking of Buicks, have you tried any of the new drivers yet .. like the Taylor R510 TP Titanium driver or any of the Rossa putters.?

                          Terry.

bobst

No, I am using a Orlimar that I got used for $65. I think the type of clubhead is not nearly as important as the loft of the club and having a shaft that suits your swing, which you can only tell by trial and error.

As for putters, I stay away from the ones that are face balanced. Mine is a heel balanced one from Dynacraft, 3 inches longer than standard, which gives it a nice hefty G-6 swingweight, just the thing for my poor 59-year old nerves that have been worn out by car salesmen (lol).

isellhondas

That was nice of you. The worst surveys seem to come from teachers, engineers and, by far, the elderly.

joshs

Isell,

Thanks. Still, I see it less as a matter of 'nice' and more as a matter of practicality. Why shouldn't I do something to benefit a salesperson who got me a good deal, especially when it costs me nothing? The next time I buy a car, I might want to go back to that same salesperson with the same practices.

Regarding the whole teacher thing, I'm a college teacher, and my specialty is teaching argumentation, so maybe I'm just odd.

Finally, I have a question for you: what kind of buyer question do you prefer:
"What's your best price?" or "Will you take X?" with X being invoice or near?

isellhondas

A serious buyer making a serious offer is much more desirable than a price shopper.

Trouble is, that invoice or near invoice offer probably won't buy the car.

Sylvia

I was disappointed (in the industry in general) when after negotiating the purchase of my (then new) 2003 Honda Odyssey - all very pleasant via email and phone...spent 15 min at the dealership signing paperwork and handing them a check - - the internet sales manager says to me "you will get a call from the survey dept of Honda asking if the sale went well...you must tell them all 'excellents' (or 5 if 5 was the best) or there will be problems. You need to promise me that you will give all answers or I'll be in trouble."

I was shocked. I basically stood there and told the guy that up until that point he would have received great ratings from me. I was pleased with the process and no-hassle. I did take great offense to the "we don't trust you to use your brain and heaven forbid you might be honest and we can learn to improve somehow" line.

Funny - when the survey person called...the last question she asked was "did the salesperson ask or pressure you to give all 5's or excellents on this survey?" My answer - "Yes - very much so"

sad, sad, sad day for the industry when how surveys are conducted actually encourage people to pressure customers into lying. Seems like a broken process all the way around.

boomer1b

Its done and asked for EVERY day.

Any brand vehicle.........From Cadillac to Kia....

Seems from what I read here...The dealer and sales person gets the shaft on anything but a perfect score...........

Thus the freebies and handholding..........FAIR
To the dealer/salesperson........NAH !

I LIKE the freebees..................

alfox

The saddest part of the whole thing is that the manufacturers are not getting the information they are trying to get. That last question just underlines how broke the system is. They don't understand that the dealerships' attempts to get a high score is not the problem; it's the rediculous "all 5's or nothing" policy that makes the entire system worthless. In fact, it obscures the problems more than if they scrapped the CSI system entirely.

I cannot believe that any research company would attach it's name to a system where only one answer out of 5 possible is acceptable, so I have to believe that the CSI programs are all designed and operated by "Zero Tolerance" types within the manufacturers' operation. Why not employ a professional research company to design a questionaire that, based on honest answers will tell them how customers percieve the process.

Sylvia

Oh, I believe it's done by everyone. I also agree with alfox that the "system" is broken as the manufacturer doesn't get the information they need to find out "how & what" might be improved upon.

audia8q

your disappointment with the industry ended up hurting nobody but the salesperson. The guy provides you with a positive experience and you kick him in the teeth becasue you, like most of us, find the survey process flawed. That isnt fair to the salesperson....

alfox

Is it fair to expect routine customers to participate in a flawed system? Is it fair to ask me to lie about an experience? Where do I get to tell someone who cares that it was pretty good overall but maybe this or that could be improved? Where do my honest opinions get taken into account? CSI's do nothing but ensure perpetuation of the flaws in the process.

Why doesn't the industry try to understand who it's customers are, and what our needs/desires are rather than trying to force us to conform to it's bizzare take on reality. I know audi8q, you didn't make the rules and shouldn't have to get "kicked in the teeth" by them. But it's they who are doing this to you, not us customers. Why isn't the dealer network screaming bloddy murder at the manufacturers who impose this rubbish on you? Leave me out of it.

bobst

Sylvia gave an honest answer to a reasonable question. What else was she supposed to do?

Sylvia

Call me old-fashioned, but I get annoyed if anyone asks me to cheat, lie or otherwise give a false answer.

Maybe this would make a great article for our Consumers Advice Editor to write?

isellhondas

"Top box scoring" and Honda no longer uses this.

Sylvia's salesperson used a poor choice of words when he explained how the survey worked.

It was a terrible system. I know some dealers offered bribes for giving perfect surveys. Customers who were mistreated would sell themselves out for a lousy tank of gas or a 50.00 restaurant certificate.

Now, the system has changed. We can no longer coach customers on how to answer the questions.

I still don't like it. The worst surveys always come from the customers who were difficult to deal with and who ground us down to the last penny.

Recently, I had the displeasure of dealing with a VERY cold, unpleasant woman who made buying a new CRV a four day event. She made a very low offer and left only to return fours later after going to two other dealers. She claimed they had the same CRVS in stock...They didn't.

Anyway after two miserable hours of grinding, she bought the car.

On the survey, she said she really liked me but gave me low marks in a couple of catagories because..." the process took too long"

One of the few customers I hope I never see again.

alfox

that Honda is listening to customers' honest answers. But the only way the system will work right is if they also listen to the sales people's comments about specific deals, and didn't overreact to the input. CSI's should be considered statistical data rather than report cards. A dealer's score for "How Long the Process Took" from aon (or 10) customers is meaningless. The score over a calendar quarter is more relevant, and this year's results compared to last is very meaningful.

audia8q

Isell makes the point the salesperson used a poor choice of wording. I agree....What if the salesperson explained the reasoning for his request?

You mentioned that your experience was positive, so the salesperson wasn't asking you to lie, was he? It sounds like you were going to give a good score anyway. If you had posted that the experience was terrible, my thoughts would be very different.

The problem with the flawed system is the salesperson is stuck in the middle....he/she must live with the outcome. Often the consumer doesn't realize that the system is unfair and the "honest" answers are hurting somebody the consumer has no intention of hurting. Which is my point.

We see folks who give us the line "I don't give a perfect score to anyone" They give 9's...for a perfect score. They might as well give us zero. The results are the same.

Sylvia

Maybe not all dealers have received this information? A friend of mine bought an Element from the same dealership - same salesperson - who gave similar coaching to her after she signed the paperwork and he was handing her the keys.

I agree - the system is probably broken all the way around and manufacturer's shouldn't treat 9's as 0's, etc. It punishes the salesperson and adds a negative feeling to the entire experience.

I would have been happier had the salesperson never brought up the survey at all. As it should be.

alfox

discard the highest and the lowest responses anyway. Any customer who gives all 0's is a moron trying to grind an axe. Likewise, anyone giving all perfect scores is gushing a bit. If the store is really that good - or bad - there will be more than just one all-0 or all-5 response.

Some have questioned whether the customer is qualified to judge how well the process was conducted, considering they do it only once every year or two or three. Fact is, their opinions are ALL that should matter, and the process should be geared to those people. Ultimately they are the ones who need to be pleased. It's the dealer staff's opinion of how well it went that is less meaningful.

bobst

When we bought our last Honda, even I didn't give them a 0 on everything. I gave them several 5's, but I threw some 0's to show them I was not totally pleased with the way I was treated.

alfox

everyone has a purpose, even if it's to serve as a bad example. Just goes to show that the entire problem with the CSI program is not only with the manufacturers and the dealers.

bobst

I don't see any problem with the CSI surveys. In fact, I think they are wonderful. It gives us buyers a chance to tell our side of the story, and it appears that the car manufactures care about our input.

When we bought our RSX last Fall we did not recieve a CSI survey in the mail. I had to call Acura and tell them everything about the car-buying experience we had at Pohanka Acura in Chantilly VA was wonderful. If we had gotten a survey, I would have given them top marks on everything.

KCRam

Credentials: 15+ years in market research.

The general public has no idea how to answer a survey unless it's a straight Yes or No. This holds for products, services, opinions, and evaluations.

Those of us who spend our free time here know better about the manufacturer surveys. We know they are Pass/Fail but are not asked that way. But the millions of people who buy cars and trucks in the US each year have no idea what this survey is really about and take it for what they think it's worth - not much. "Yeah, give it all 5s, it was fine", if that's what it takes to get the person off the phone.

If the manufacturers genuinely want to know what the experience was like, they wouldn't use ratings at all. Ask specific Y/N questions and calculate by those responses...

* Did the salesperson explain the features of your car to your satisfaction before you left?
|_| Yes
|_| No

instead of

* Please rate the salesperson on "explaining the features of your car"
5 Excellent
4 Very Good
3 Good
2 Fair
1 Poor

As a consumer, which question is easier for you to understand?

kcram
Host
Smart Shopper and Wagons Message Boards

rroyce10

.... **The general public has no idea how to answer a survey unless it's a straight Yes or No. This holds for products, services, opinions, and evaluations** ...

                   ... Bingo.! ...

                   The vast majority of buyers "are" satisfied, but those are usually the ones that never respond to the surveys. It's the ones that would argue in an empty room or still have their first communion money.

            It's the ones that dropped 15 emails and drove 100 miles and still wants the free floor mats, different wheels and a trip to Madrid that will hammer away on the dealer because "they" feel they were inconvenienced by the long drive or the vehicle wasn't clean enough at 9:30 at night when they changed their minds 7 times on 5 different vehicles ..

              The phone surveys .. on even the good customers, lets call the new buyer during dinner or at work, or when he gets that cell phone bill from his 12 year old daughter for $250, thats always a good time .l.o.l.. and now, you want to ask him/her a 1 to 5 rating ...? you might as well ask them their views on Jeffrey Dahmer ... along with that, you have the buyer that his friend just told him: "you paid too much, they break all the time and my Aunt bought that same vehicle for $10,000 less" .. and the whole time, the dealer has to hold his breath for a good survey.

             Sylvia, from your lips to Gods ears you said: "I was pleased with the process and no-hassle. I did take great offense" .. the dealer was upfront, he told you what to expect, it's business and you took offense, thats a personal thing .. you must be tuff to deal with when someone tells you your shoes don't match your lipstick .l.o.l...

              I have been to 50/60(?) dealer meetings and we have hammered the manufacturers from everything from CSI to rebates and back again for Yeeeaars - I don't know whats worse, Union meetings or Dealer meetings - Manufacturers just don't get it, they all get that dead mullet look and they end up leaving and lookin' like that Bobble Head doll in the rear window .. so what usually happens is a discussion like this, but the dealer is held captive, as usual.

                              
                            Terry.

bobst

Credentials: 57 years speaking and understanding the English language.

The second question is easier for me to understand and answer.

It is much easier for me to rate the person's performance from 5-excellent to 1-poor than it is to rate them in a yes-no question.

For example, one salesman may have done an excellent job explaining the car I bought a week ago, but the salesman where I bought the car yesterday just did an OK job. I would not feel right giving them both a simple 'yes' rating.

On the other hand, I would feel much better giving the first salesman a 5-excellent rating and the second salesman a 3-good rating.

bobst

You don't seem to have much sympathy for Sylvia being offended. Well, a decent salesman does not offend his customers unless there is a very good reason. In this case, I think the salesman was wrong.

"The general public has no idea how to ..."

I have never liked that phrase. It makes me think the person using it is an elitist who has a lack of respect for average people.

rroyce10

.... Nope .. there's nothing elitist about it, it's called human nature and actually, you even answered your own question .. getting offended because someone asks you for a good grade "especially" when they deserved it, is the same if they asked you for refferals, a recommendation or even where you get your hair cut .. getting offended, is being elitist.

            When I went to Bama' last week we stayed at a nice place .. when leaving, we were asked if we liked the accommodations, conditions and if we were happy with the service and the food .. if so, would we be nice enough to respond to a their survey in a positive way and they pointed out the difference between the (are you ready.?) the 1 thru 5 scores ... they busted their butt and then some, do I castrate them because they asked.?

            
            I'm sorry, but Kcram is correct .. I have friends at Searay, Chaparral, Formula, Regal and Cobalt boats and they, at one time or another, have had these types surveys, so this isn't a car biz thing, it's a a business thing and not a good one at that ... they get slammed because the porti potti fails on the 3rd day out, they didn't build it and they didn't install it, but they get the negative reaction from the consumer and *they* get pummeled on the survey .... I need to get you around 200/300 consumers sometime, it's easy to be a Monday morning quarterback when you don't play the game ..l.o.l....

PS: besides all that, your not the "general public" ......

                                Terry.

KCRam

Bob, here's the problem. The survey is given to the consumer as

5 Excellent
4 Very Good
3 Good
2 Fair
1 Poor

That is a marketing industry-standard rating scale. However, the manufacturer sees the same grades as

5 Excellent
4 Poor
3 Poor
2 Poor
1 Poor

and the consumer does not know this. A "Very Good" to the consumer is still seen as failure to the manufacturer. This is the fatal flaw of the system. With a Yes/No, there's no gray area or interpretation of ratings.

While you and I may have a better grasp of the language than Joe Average (I was an English major), that shouldn't mean they shoul be scammed by a flawed survey.

kcram
Host
Smart Shopper and Wagons Message Boards

prophet2

It's like getting denied your degree or diploma for not achieving all A's in your course work.

A = pass;
B, C, D, F = fail.

What a scam/sham, etc.

bobst

But it is not a problem for me.

Like most other Joe Average people in the general population, I know what 'excellent', 'good', and 'poor' mean, and I am very comfortable filling out a survey with those categories. It ain't rocket science.

You say the consumer does not know how the manufacturer interprets these ratings. Do you think we consumers care?

I just try to give an honest answer to a reasonable question, and I am very happy that the manufacturer (unlike most people or institutions) values my opinion.

By the way, the only education I have had in English was high school and one course in college plus what I have learned from listening to Lisa Simpson, so I think I am pretty much Joe Average.

Sylvia

Terry, first off - whoever told you to match lipstick with your shoes, well - you need a different stylist. I do just fine in the fashion department thank you very much.

What I took offense at was the veiled threat that if I didn't answer all "excellent" my new vehicle **might not get serviced** by the dealer. Hmmmm, now, how should that sit with someone. Had I not been holding a 3-week old baby my reaction other than biting my lip and rolling my eyes would have been more akin to "are you out of your mind???" with quite a few colorful words thrown in.

isellhondas

I think you are totally missing the point here. If you think your salesperson was VERY GOOD and you give him a FOUR in that catagory you have, in many cases, given him a failing grade.

Do you think that's a good way to grade a salesperson's performance?

landru2

Two direct quotes from Sylvia's original post:

"you will get a call from the survey dept of Honda asking if the sale went well...you must tell them all 'excellents' (or 5 if 5 was the best) or there will be problems. You need to promise me that you will give all answers or I'll be in trouble."

I did take great offense to the "we don't trust you to use your brain and heaven forbid you might be honest and we can learn to improve somehow" line.

I fail to see this veiled threat to not service your car. IMO, your original post makes no mention of such a threat and you clearly state what you took great offense to; and it was nothing to do with threats to not service your car.

Perhaps if you had mentioned this threatening behaviour more clearly in your original post, your point would've been better understood.

boomer1b

Toyota motor sales USA is witholding incentive awards and contest prises from toyota dealerships that repeatedly try to influence how customers fill out customer satisfaction surveys.

The company is DENYING similar awards to dealerships in the bottom 10 % of toyotas customer satisfaction index scores for sales and service, in their region or nationally. The policies are part of a tough new approach to improve customer service at toyota dealerships.

"We'll monitor dealers to ensure they're not coaching the survey," said nancy hubbell speaking for toyota.

Toyota also has revised the customer satisfaction surveys it uses to measure dealership performance. It assigns individual numerical scores to salespeople and service advisors;

boomer1b

Includes questions aimed at determining how well dealerships resolve customer complaints; and asks customers whether they would recommend a dealership...............
C/ Staff and news service reports.

Sylvia

Agreed. It was actually my husband who asked on the way out to the car what problems might happen and the saleguy shrugged and said "service and stuff."

KCRam

see bold:

"you will get a call from the survey dept of Honda asking if the sale went well...you must tell them all 'excellents' (or 5 if 5 was the best) or there will be problems. You need to promise me that you will give all answers or I'll be in trouble."

That phrase is definitely questionable. He didn't say until the second sentence that he would be in trouble. Failing to say what the "problems" are leaves a door wide open for what they could be.

kcram
Host
Smart Shopper and Wagons Message Boards

KCRam

...what problems might happen and the saleguy shrugged and said "service and stuff."

That answer would have delayed if not cancelled delivery... and would have been followed by an immediate trip to the General Manager's office.

kcram
Host
Smart Shopper and Wagons Message Boards

landru2

That's what I would've done too. That's why I was surprised that such a serious threat was not mentioned in the original post. Sylvia has cleared up why.

rroyce10

**That's why I was surprised that such a serious threat was not mentioned in the original post** ...

         Yeah, thats kinda like saying:

            "I had a great day playing golf today" ............ "Oh, by the way, one of those small planes crashed on the golf course and killed 2 people" ...

         Nothing like leaving the 'portant stuff out until the end .l.o.l....

                         Terry