Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
Options
Comments
Too Bad Honda!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Doing all we can so that you loose sales. May not be much but work gets around pretty quickly.
Carefull folks ,even the dealers don't know what the true situation is.
I was told by my salesman that they could no longer sell to Canadians(as of December '07) The dealer would not even take Visa from Canada but allowed my purchase to go through since it was already in the works. I don't know if anything has changed but I will share the info if you email me at ronedgar2@rogers.com
That would deprive everyone else here of valuable information.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
So I'm all puzzled how some of you can buy Toyota in the US, since they said that it is an across the board rule by Toyota USA.
I have pretty much given up hope and am going to buy in Canada, eating the difference.
Any last minute tips before I go to the local dealers and pay the thousands of dollars extra?
One word of advice, "DO NOT GIVE IN TO THESE BIG AUTO MANUFACTURERS TACTICS".
You must not buy from those manufacturers in Canada, otherwise you will be helping their aim of wearing the Canadians down.
Buy from those who are not gouging from Canadians.
Buy any other brand but the big ones who are openly committing the day light robbery in Canada.
You most definitely can purchase new Toyota and Hondas, but you need to add an extra step to do it.
Basically you need to have the vehicle bought and titled in the US, then sold to you. There are a number of ways to do this, and various pros and cons. Some use a family member and others use a service provided by a broker. Remember Honda will not provide warranty if you transfer it across the border.
Contact me if you want more information, or just ask away and I will respond on this forum.
Take care.
Thanks
Twotone
Get a PO Box in any of the US towns $100/year. Use that as your mailing address and your set. If they ask for a physical address use the following
I use 123 Happy Street,. Box xxxx Linden , WA
Citizenship is not the deal for dealer it is having a US address.
Contiue the battle, do not give in to the Toyota Can Fu(kers
As you asked this of me I will answer with my approach.
I am always concerned about title. I know that this can be fast in some cases, but the method I use includes titling in Alaska...the turnaround is one day for title preparation. Some states can take 4-6 weeks. As I provide this to customers this is very very valuable... allows us to accurately work a schedule. We do not pay any state taxes either as we purchase in New Hampshire or Oregon or Montana.
The friend in Texas approach is fine I am sure, but you are relying on folks who don't have experience with it. I know you can read many posts demonstrating how effective this can be and of course follow that route if you prefer. I am not going to discourage you and will provide all the information I can to help. I have no doubt you would avoid the taxes with the approach you are suggesting, but you will be required to title it in the state that has no tax so some leg work will be required. The tax is applied in the state of title.. so if he is in Texas he will need to go to NH and have it done.
Paying for it is a matter of bank draft or wiring it from bank to bank. We have a lawyer take care of payment and avoid this as well. I am not doubting the poster who mentioned the PO box...just haven't done it myself so I can't comment on it.
I hope this helps some. Lots of opportunity in the US right now despite manufacturers attempts to slow it down.
Take care.
Thank you to hacheyimports for your comments. Much appreciated.
If you e-mail or phone a dealer and ask about selling to a Canadian, of course they have to answer back in the negative. But ...
If you keep contacting dealers by email about low mileage used Toyotas - such as you will find through http://www.cars.com/go/index.jsp - sooner or later you will find a diligent salesperson. Keep checking with him/her so they know you are serious. Let them know you want near new and eventually ask what it would take for them to "find" (hinting at creating) one. Note that with no sales tax in Oregon, some salesperson will find a way of registering it - thus making it used.
I bought highlabder from usa few months ago and saved $ 10000.00 . So it was great. But In end of december toyota started giving some gas coupons in canda. I think gas coupon's were not working So Finally TOYOTA Lowered thier MSRP's yesterday. Check their website. Before you head to south check for difference. On highlander's the diff after imp. duties and expenses you can max save up to $ 4000.00 or so.
Regards
February 5, 2008
Subject: Texas Motor Vehicle Sales Tax Exemption Certificate 14-312.
This is in reply to your e-mail question concerning whether Texas Motor Vehicle Sales Tax Exemption Certificate for Vehicles Taken Out Of State, form 14-312, can be used to claim exemption from the Texas sales tax for a vehicle that will be exported to Ontario, Canada.
Response: Yes, Texas Motor Vehicle Sales Tax Exemption Certificate for Vehicles Taken Out Of State, form 14-312, can be used to claim exemption from Texas motor vehicle sales tax on a motor vehicle purchased in Texas that will be immediately exported to Canada. Under The heading that makes reference to "state where vehicle will be used / registered" insert either "Canada or "Ontario Canada". There is no need to cross out the pre-printed statement and insert "Country where vehicle will be used / registered".
Section 152.021 of the Texas Tax Code imposes a 6.25 percent motor vehicle sales tax on every motor vehicle purchased in Texas. The motor vehicle sales tax is based on the total consideration paid for the vehicle less any amount allowed for a vehicle traded in to the seller by the purchaser.
However, Section 152.092 provides that Texas motor vehicle sales tax is not due on the retail sale of a motor vehicle that is purchased for use exclusively outside of Texas and is transported directly out of Texas prior to any use in Texas other than the transportation of the vehicle out of Texas. Also, title and registration fees are not due if the vehicle is taken directly out of Texas within 20 working days of the purchase of the vehicle. Titling and/or registering the vehicle in Texas create the presumption that the vehicle is for use within Texas and the sales tax is due.
To qualify for the exemption, the purchaser of a motor vehicle is required to give the selling dealer a signed and properly completed Texas out-of-state use exemption certificate (form 14-312) at the time of the purchase in lieu of the motor vehicle sales tax. The selling dealer should then provide the purchaser with all of the necessary paper work in order for the purchaser to title and register the vehicle in some other state or foreign country.
To download a copy of the exemption certificate go to:
Scroll down to "forms" and click to open, and then scroll down to Texas Motor Vehicle sales tax exemption certificate-for vehicles taken out of state.
In the event a motor vehicle is to be exported outside the United States and a third party requires that the vehicle be titled in Texas before being exported, the vehicle may be exempt from Texas motor vehicle sales tax at the time the vehicle is titled provided the vehicle is not registered for use in Texas, the purchaser gives the seller an exemption certificate as required by section 152.092(b) and Rule 3.90, and the purchaser provides, at the time of titling, proof of export such as a copy of the original airway, ocean, or railroad bill of lading issued by a licensed and certificated carrier that describes the motor vehicle being exported and a copy of the air forwarder's, ocean forwarder's, or rail freight forwarder's receipt if an air, ocean, or rail freight forwarder takes possession of the motor vehicle in Texas; or a copy of a bill of lading issued by a licensed and certificated carrier of persons or property that shows the seller as consignor, the buyer as consignee, and a delivery point for the motor vehicle outside the territorial limits of the United States; or documentation provided by a licensed customs broker certifying that delivery of the motor vehicle was made to a point outside the territorial limits of the United States; or formal entry documents from the country of destination showing that the motor vehicle was imported into a country other than the United States.
For online access to the sections of the tax code and rules noted above go to: www.window.state.tx.us/taxinfo/mtr_veh/mv_su.html
Scroll down to "Statutes" or Rules" and click to open.
I hope this information helps. If you have further questions, please e-mail them to tax.help@cpa.state.tx.us, or you may reach me by phone at
(800) 531-5441, ext. 3-4986.
Our goal is to provide you with prompt, professional service. Please take a moment to complete our on-line survey at http://aixtcp.cpa.state.tx.us/surveys/tpsurv2/index.html.
Sincerely,
Ken Koch
Tax Policy Division
Comptroller of Public Accounts
P.O. Box 13528
Austin, Texas 78711
512.463.4968 (phone)
512.475.0900 (fax)
ken.koch@cpa.state.tx.us
**************************************************
over our United States market price! I Just sold a saturn outlook to a
dealer in canada. So, does that mean he's going to jack the price up
to a canadian buyer?
to a canadian buyer? "
Without a doubt, those hypocrites!
I had asked the sales person why many other Toyota dealer don't want to sell new cars to Canadian, but he can. He said it is because Toyota does not penalize them, that is why they are keep selling it to CAD customers. But the rule can change any time.
A couple of other attractive rebates/price adjustments are the $8,000 rebates on the Subaru Outback and Tribecca.
Responding to the few good members' suggestions:
1. Register in a diff. state such as Oregon. First I don't have a real address there, so it is lying and I'm not sure if there is any legal consequence. Second, some said title can take up to a month. I don't want to wait that long, and then transfer the title back out.
2. Would be good if can use US address for registration, because Costco Auto Program price can then apply, meaning quite a bit of savings. But registering in WA meaning that 8.6 to 9.2 % sales tax will apply, which counters any discount on the price.
3. I don't want to find "low mileage" cars, and then get it as "used". I might as well get a friend to do that if I want to go that route. A sales guy who is willing to do it meaning that he's willing to commit fraud. I'm here to save a buck, not to commit a fraud, or even being an accomplice. I also don't want a used car. There are people who are willing to do anything to save some bucks, I'm just not one of them. The suggestion is appreciated the same though.
All in all, the saving is not as much as I thought, after calculating the following extras:
RIV fee
immobilizer install fee (will get it done locally in Canada, hopefully for $200??, don't know)
10 day binder ($50? how much?)
6.1% duty as it's made in Japan. Now this is $1,800. so ouch.
With Toyota Canada now having $2000. off starting this month. The total difference before GST and PST is about $2,800. only. Not even $3000. Some people might not even want to go that route, especially if they can get a broker / consultant to find a local deal.
I was told not to surrender to the local dealers, sure. But I think the saving is not as much as some claimed here. I thought I'd be saving over $5,000. But now realize it's only $2,800. + GST and PST, so about $3100. or so. Not a small change, but for some people it is the threshold for the hassle.
And I want NEW, not near new. Not sure where I have stated that to give you that impression.
As I also said on the other post, I don't want the salesperson to lie or faking anything. It's just money, it's not worth faking anything here. I'm not that desperate.
Immobilizer - also depense - All 08 Camry trim comes with immobilizer - so you don't need to pay anything for that
DRL - you may need to modify the day time running light at CT, may cost you some $120.
Remember you also save money on exchange rate (a little as now). You save the difference on GST and PST. If the price difference between US and CAD $5000, you save 12%, and that is $600 already.
If you buy a top model Toyota, say 08 Camry SE V6 with moonroof and leather (B package in Canada), you could save over CAD$5000 even CAD dealer has $2000 discount.
Resell value - by the time you sell your import car a few years later, you may need to discount more because people may prefer local ones. The impact will be less if you own your car longer.
I have to find out where to get immobilizer installed in Vancouver, and how much.
Because 6.1% takes out about $1800. of the savings, thus it is less. I have also factored in the extra fees such as RIV, 10 day binder, and the immobilizer but haven't even got these costs down yet.
I was also looking at Honda CRV, but since Honda voids the warranty, I am not interested, just in case there is something wrong I can use local dealer for service.
I found the savings really depends. On the Honda S2000 you could save more then $22,000. but that's just a strange phenomenon. Basically nobody is buying the S2000 in Canada, according to a sales at a Honda dealer here.
Does anyone know where to get immobilizer installed (good reliable and skilled installer?), and how much labour and hardware cost?
Although I prefer Japanese made cars, but the 6.1% really has taken some part of the savings off.
1. You have to shop around, even in the U.S. When we were searching for our Sienna, we were quoted a range of over $7,000 difference from the high price to the low price. The best price we found was $1,000 below invoice (whatever that means) plus an additional $1,500 cash back from Toyota. The worst price was essentially MSRP, plus about $500 in "dealer costs". Interestingly enough, the lowest priced dealer couldn't sell to Canadians, but the highest priced one was more than willing. We ended up going the third party, US friend, route and our cost "savings" was about $15,000.
2. The models aren't exactly the same between countries. What we found was you can get a Sienna LE in the US that has essentially the same options as a base model CE here. We ended up with a loaded FWD XLE (a model you can't buy here - you've got to go up to the $50k AWD Limited) for less than you could buy a base LE here.
3. We didn't exactly "save" any money, but we did save at least a couple of years of depreciation. We would have NEVER paid $15,000 more for our van. We can't even afford the price we paid as it is. What we got for our hassle was a brand new car, for the first time in our lives, for the price we were seeing in Calgary for '04 or '05 models with 100,000 km on them.
Here's my thoughts on used cars:
1. Because it's easier to do (less manufacturer restrictions), the prices are staying higher, especially closer to the border. It's simple supply/demand. The big savings are in the new cars.
2. Resale prices of used US cars in Canada will likely be lower than equivalent Canadian cars. Combine that with point 1 and the incentive is a lot less, especially if you're planning on selling it in a short time period.
3. Used cars are more risky to purchase sight-unseen for obvious reasons. You've got to be more sure of the seller, and ask a lot more questions and see a lot more pictures. When we bought our Sienna, it was basically the manufacturer's spec that we purchased. There's still uncertainty, but considerably less.
I am wondering if this letter will be good enough as I read somewhere that a recall letter should be from OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturer). Any suggestion would be appreciated. Also for warranty in Canada, should I ask anything from the dealer?
Thanks.
Regards
That is, unless the RIV has changed their policy (they never do that, do they?), or maybe it depends on the individual who handles your case.
Does any one know how and where to get a bilingual air bag warnings label? My Canadian Tire inspector asked me to get one before he sign "pass" for my import vehicle inspection.
Thanks in advance.
I could have gone with "US friend" route, but friends in Washington would mean sales tax. I have a friend in Oregon but then transporting would add up cost and time, if he buys there for me, plus it's a hassle I don't want to burden my friend. If friend or I buy it, but have it titled in no sales tax states, but not actually living there, then it's somewhat of a fraud, not about the importing part, but about the circumventing part of sales tax, which I'm sure is not right. Again, as I said, I want to save a buck, not to commit a crime. So the only legit way is for an Oregon (or the other sales tax free states) resident to buy it locally there (or buy it remotely, but titled it in Oregon), but then it's still hassle as I have to use his name.
Now with all that said, what could be the difference? That would be the price on the car itself, that's about it. Assuming that I should be able to save $1000, but probably not likely more than $2000. It's no small change, but I'm quite satisfied by the current savings compared to buying locally. It is not a small thing, and big money is involved, so it creates pressure for my friend that I don't want. It still takes time to hunt and bargain anyway, and that's not easy to do remotely.
The Camry sounds like a good deal except I'm not looking for that style, same for Sienna. Both are great cars for its class. There are always more trims and options and accessories to choose from from US market, that's for sure. It's also a 10x market size so it can work that way.
I'm surprised that you "save" $15000. though, but are you comparing exactly the same car?
What I think are limiting are the various factors that affect the deal:
1. Warranty. Honda is out, for example, but Toyota is in.
2. 6.1% duty. Too bad I really want the RAV4, now have to eat that $1800. too bad I can't get back the duty paid on the car cost from the US Treasury, even at 2.5% (? is that right?). The difference could have been a lot more significance without this one! Big consideration point.
3. RIV list and modifications. From inadmissible to nuisance. Now I have to find places to get immobilizer if the one doesn't come with it (many don't, or as option).
Adding to this is only if the CAD stays high like now. So it is a window of opportunity. For example, my saving calculated so far is only 10%. So if the CAD moves back 10% there is zero savings. BTW, I use the calculation that compared with buying locally at Toyota at list price also, but I am sure I can find a discount somehow (via a broker / consultant etc), and the difference could be even less.
I really am not sure why I'm going through all this hassle. One posted basically told me (more like begged me) not to buy locally (not to give in to them). My saving is likely less than 10% ,and could be 5% if I can find a local deal. Why is that such a big deal? On some cars if you can save $15000 or whatever, of course. It is not on the car I am looking at.
any one know of a good place to store a vehicle that is being imported from the US. Was to pick up the car at the border on the US side to bring up to ottawa (near alexandria bay/ 1000 island crossing). Unfortunately the papers sent by the dealer has not arrived and therefor cannot bring the vehicle across. The vehicle will arrive early next week and i may not be able to pick it up for a week or two. Any suggestion s?
I am not sure who is gouging whom here. I guess the Toyota dealer who is charging me full is not gouging me, but the local Toyota who might be able to give me a discount (I'll use a consultant to get a deal, bypassing haggling)?
Buy other brands? Even brands that are not rated highly, or brands that are unreliable? Just to satisfy a price justice?
I also don't know what you mean by "manufacturers in Canada" as far as I know there are no car manufacturers in Canada, only cars being manufactured in Canada.
BTW, sid11, please tell me what car you have bought in the US and from which dealer, at what savings?
to park the vehicle shoot me a e-mail (in my profile).
I have a summer place within site of the bridge off rt. 81 on rt. 12.
You could park it in my driveway................
I went to the same CT this morning with onwer's manual and with full confidence.
* Told the same guy that he understood RIV's requirement incorrectly.
* Pointed to him that RIV asks a Bilingual Maintenance Label for those airbags need periodic maintenance, not a general Warning Label of Airbags.
* shown him the manual that my airbag system is maintenance free, and there is even no English maintaenance label existing.
The guy still hesitated, then
* Ask him to call RIV for explaination. I haven't ever called RIV for this issue before because I don't think it is neccesary.
After the call, the CT guy signed and stamped my Form1 and Form 2 immediately and then faxed them to RIV.
Thanks for all.
I certainly agree that not all models and all deals will result in substantial (even worthwhile) savings. As I mentioned, our Sienna model/package is not available in Canada, so we've approximated our savings based on the closest match. In our case, our loaded 2WD XLE we compared to the AWD Limited less about $5,000 for the AWD and the "Laser cruise control", which were about the only difference between the two. The other comparison could have been with the Canadian LE with leather option + some sort of approximation for the sunroof, etc that you can't get on the LE in Canada. Either way, with the low price we got from our dealer in the US, the savings were at least $15k.
When we started shopping, we compared Toyota to Kia and were actually tempted to go with the top model Sedona until we found our smokin deal on the Sienna in Nevada. For about $5,000 less than the Sedona we were able to get a new Toyota with all the bells and whistles. The two Toyota dealers we visited in Canada were never in a position where they felt they needed to reduce their prices to win our business. Last summer, we were flat out told that they didn't need to reduce their rates or provide any financing incentives. Even used Siennas were flying off the lot before they could even be detailed at the shop. Our only leverage would have been with a trade-in, and even that we were low-balled on.
As for the ethics of using the US friend route, I justify my actions two ways:
1. It is totally legal to purchase a vehicle in many states (Nevada in my case) for export out of state without paying state sales taxes. It is totally legal to export a US vehicle to Canada without paying any US taxes. IMO, everything we did with the government of Nevada and/or the US government was above board.
2. I admit that we circumvented a protectionist policy of Toyota by involving a US resident to sign all the Toyota paperwork who then turned the vehicle over to me. Some might call that fraud; I just call it beating Toyota at their own game. Maybe I'm naive, but I can't think of any laws that were broken.
I agree that the dealers who are signing vehicles over to themselves and then flipping them to Canadians are taking a risk, and I can't imagine there are too many dealers doing that. Then again, if you offer the dealer MSRP when his competitors are selling (to Americans) below invoice, there's a substantial profit potential (and less savings for you) for that dealer to get it into your hands. I don't think those dealers are breaking any laws (I could be wrong here, since there are likely pretty strict dealer laws in place), but would certainly be at risk of being fined or losing dealership rights with the manufacturer.
Did you use a friend who resides in a free sales tax state? Otherwise how was it titled without registration in a free sales tax state? I think where it is registered then where it is calculated the sales tax? I guess I never thought of this part too much.
Also how much shipping fee did it cost you to transport your Sienna? Is it to the border?
Another thing is that I'm a bit in a hurry because I don't want to spend money fixing my old car, so I'm less so in a state of hunting and bargaining. Been waiting for this for a while. The drop in 1% of GST also helps to counter some differences.
I didn't think your case is a fraud. I said that mostly about those who used a fake address to register, even though there is no real person there (living). Because I think registration is through a government department, so any untruthful part could be illegal. It is not a simple matter of sales, but registration of something that the government deems significant enough to require this action. If I will use this method, I need to use my real friends to do it. Yea, I'm a bit uncomfortable to involve even my very good friend to do it. The one in Oregon is not as close even.
How long before all join the BMW Wagon Train?
My method is very clear and transparent. I have everything legally titled and registered. The vehicle is then sold to my clients, bill of sale produced by our lawyer and no hidden corners cut to avoid legal repercussions. As we have a network in place, the costs are kept to a modest level and the turn around is less than a week in some cases.
Whenever we start telling anyone what is the "right" way to look at vehicle importation it becomes dicey. I know what works for me and am comfortable with it.
Take care.
Does this pertain to daytime running lights or more just a statement for TC to cover themselves in any disputes? Any comments are much appreciated.
It says in the RIV that it has a EIS clause (immobilizer issue) but if it has one maybe admissible.
thanks