The introductory DVD on the Avalon given to sales people by Toyota during training, among many other things, illustrates what they say is the Avalon's superior maneuverability on a slalom course (testing in part emergency-type control/lean, etc.) compared to others of its competition (Ford 500, Chrysler 300, etc.). They claimed Avalon was superior. You might ask your sales person to show it to you.
Well of course they are going to claim its superior. You don't sell something by instilling doubt about your product . As much as I am likely to purchase an Avalon, I think it is important to step back for a moment and try to be objective (which includes being open to criticism and seeking out unbiased sources).
For those of you that already realize this, my apologies. I just don't want folks like bikergal to feel like their thoughts are not welcomed. Too much enthusiasm can be unproductive.
"But most folks here pooh-poohed the article. Because nothing can be wrong with the Avalon. "
Yes, it is hard to notice flaws when you have just bought the car of your dreams and laid out more than 35 grand for it, but there are some aspects to the Limited that I am not as pleased with as I wish I were. One of them is the transmission at very low speeds, particularly when you are transitioning from slowing down to speeding up again in traffic. But the '02 had a similar tendancy, so I am somewhat accustomed to working with it, waiting for it to catch up to my throttle movements.
The other is the ride. I expected it would be like the silky big-car feel of my beloved '02, but instead it is more choppy and feels every pebble. There, too, I still prefer it to other cars--except for that great 2002 XL Avalon. What surprises me is that the Limited feels more like a Touring model I tested and disliked, instead of like the very smooth XLS. I wonder why this is?
BTW, I had bad scratches on rear bumper repaired at my dealer--I think they even put the dust back on! It is utterly like new, and only cost $168. Thanks, Mackabee, for the tip.
Considering a 2005 Touring but realized navigation system only available on XLS and Limited trim levels. Wondering if I should wait for the 2006 model...
Any historical precedence or news on whether Toyota has plans to eventually make the nav. system available to other trim levels?
I JUST BOUGHT A 2005 AVALON LIMITED, BUT THE IS AN ARTICLE IN THE JUNE CONSUMER REPORTS (PAGE 9) THAT IT WOULD BE EASY TO CRACK THE CODE TO START THRU CAR; THE THIEVES USE THE SAME CODE FOR SPEED PASS AT EXXON TO FILL UP YOUR CAR..."JOHN'HOPKINS RESEARCHERS SPOOFED THE IMMOBILIZER AN STARTED THE VEHICLE WITH A BARE IGNITION KEY"- IS SOMEONE GOING TO STEAL MY CAR? WHAT CAN I DO TO [PREVENT IT? THANKS, CHOATE
It looks like I just may not be able to get the Avalon Limited and even XLS models are in short supply down here in FL.
I really don't want to rent a vehicle for 2-3 months while Toyota builds one for me.
I'll check with dealers outside the SE distributorship, but then I need to consider the logistics of getting there and driving back or having it shipped.
All that stated, *IF* you couldn't get an Avalon, what cars would you be looking at? The Maxima is just ugly to me and I really don't want a Buick or Ford 500.
I'm willing to go to $40k if need be.
I really prefer a full sized car, but my options open up a good bit if I go to mid sized.
I'm pretty bummed out. I never thought it would be impossible to get a Limited. Even the XLS's available are spotty and colors I don't want like Indigo Blue.
Only 2 options I must have are VSC and NAV.
Anyways, what would you be looking at if the Avalon wasn't available?
For some, the sunshade is great. When I am at my Florida condo and I park facing east with the intercoastel waterway behind me, I get the afternoon sun directly on the back of my Avalon Ltd. I previously had to place a sunshade manually on the back shelf and now, just push a button and the sunshade goes up. Great idea.
I found myself agreeing 100% with his observations. Healey wrote an overall extremely positive review. He highlighted most of the great features that contributors to this list are excited about. A few quotes:
"The latest Avalon is a stunning piece of work..."
"Here's what Toyota did to improve the already respected, if not celebrated, Avalon: Everything."
"The new Avalon is:
* Bigger, though no bulky behemoth.
* More powerful.
... Its crisp response to the throttle and keen, mature growl under the spurs beg you to use all that oomph. The '05 is an Avalon that likes to romp, ...
* Stylish.
* Sportier
* Fancier."
And here is, verbatum, the one negative feature, as Healey described it:
"A sometimes-indecisive transmission is the one mechanical hiccup noticed during the test drives. In stop-and-go traffic or cruising at walking speed looking for an address or street sign, the transmission can't settle on a gear. Little jerks and shudders come through as the transmission hunts for the right ratio. Disappointing in such a well-done car."
You know what? Healey was right. A number of contributors to this forum have also noticed transmission shifting misbehaviors that they described as "hesitation", "inappropriate shifting" or "transmission hunting" [rewop #5029, havalongavalon #5045, pricecutter #5159, int #5221, pjasek #5340, bikegal #5345, williamt #5350].
On the other hand, many other owners may have honestly not noticed any shifting problem, or choose to ignore it, which is OK, but does not take away from the fact that for some owners this can be a blemish in the otherwise excellent performance.
I like best the term that Healey used: "sometimes-indecisive transmission". I like least the term "hesitation". "Hesitation" has the connotation of a sluggish, delayed response after stepping on the gas, something that was a problem with some Lexi and Camrys, but it is my understanding that this kind of hesitation has not been observed by 2005 Avalon drivers.
A question for rewop, pricecutter, int, pjasek, bikegal, williamt and any others who have experienced transmission glitches: Do you agree that "sometimes-indecisive transmission" correctly describes what you have experienced?
A final comment: this "sometimes-indecisive transmission" behaviour may be annoying or disappointing, but in my experience, it has never been dangerous. The forward motion of the car is hardly affected by extra shifting activity when it happens. Which may be the reason why many more drivers honestly don't notice the extra shifting, even if it also happens to them sometimes.
Car and driver has a short piece on the Azera in the June issue. Considering Hyundai's recent continuous quality improvements as reported by J.D. Power & Associates, the Azera should be reasonable competition for the Avalon and all other cars in the mid-luxury category.
One question though, will the Azera be manufactured in the U.S.? If so, where? And could the Americanization of the car compromise its quality.
While the article doesn't specifically mention the Avalon, it does say that "The problems have been reported in all of the Toyota and Lexus products that have the five-speed automatic transmission". Doesn't the Avalon have the 5-speed automatic? If it is not experiencing hesitation and other models are, I wonder what the difference is.
A person posting on the Engine Hesitation board (bkinblk) said that he has been contacted by Toyota or Lexus (can't recall which) about a new solenoid that they think will solve the problem.
I believe the link you posted refers to the Lexus ES 330 and other Toyota and Lexus products with the 3.0 L and 3.3 L V6. It does not cover the Toyota Avalon which has an all new engine and drive by wire throttle. Whether a car is a dissapointment for some people is completely subjective. Not everybody likes a particular car's driving characteristic or the way the transmission shifts That does not mean the car is defective or dangerous. The USA TODAY review is just that, a review. There are probably dozens of reviews out there on the new Avalon. For some reason the reviewer was disappointed by the car's low speed transmission response. That by itself does not make the car "problematic".
Considering Hyundai's recent continuous quality improvements from J.D. Power & Associates, the Azera should be reasonable competition for the Avalon and all other cars in the mid-luxury category.
I will definitely have to check out the Azera. Actually, I have been reading about these improvements and I even took a look at the new Hyundai Sonata. It's look almost works for me, but it looks a bit old-school for my taste. My guess is that the Azera might be more attractive (any one have any links to pics of it?).
One question though, will the Azera be manufactured in the U.S.? If so, where? And could the Americanization of the car compromise its quality
That's a good question bwia. Based on all the reports I've read, and the consensus of this forum, it sounds like the Americanization of the Avalon hasn't had adverse effects on quality control. But, since the Avalon 2005 is so new, one has to assume that the reliability of the previous model will carry over to the new one: so long-term reliability remains to be seen. Furthermore, the americanization of a Toyota sedan isn't necessarily the same as the americanization of one from Hyundai.
Again, it does not mention the Avalon specifically, but it is about a software upgrade for Toyota and Lexus 2002 - 2005 with 5-speed automatic transmissions. Does the Avalon have a different transmission from the Lexus? I thought these were essentially the same cars with different names (and additional luxury features in the Lexus).
It is good news that the hesitation problems in earlier Lexus and Toyota models can be fixed with a software upgrade. This suggests that someday Toyota may also upgrade the software for the 2005 Avalon in order to correct the more minor "sometimes-indecisive transmission" issue.
I just found a number of links to info on the new Hyundai Azera. And I see they are also releasing a new Sonata. Since I will be buying in the fall, it looks like these cars could very well be on the lot in time for my consideration. Of course, this is an Avalon 2005 forum, so we shouldn't go into too much detail about these new models. But, It should be worthwhile to do some comparisons.
The Avalon has a 5 speed squential shift ( do it yourself shift) transmission. The 5 speed auto in the Lexus ES and RX are 5 speed adaptive transmission. In the Avalon if you don't like the automatic transmisson you can always downshift or upshift by pushing the lever to + or - position
In the Avalon if you don't like the automatic transmisson you can always downshift or upshift by pushing the lever to + or - position
Yeah, this is sort of what I was thinking. At the moment that the transmission begins to play musical gears, would a simple jab towards "+" or "-" snap it out of it?
about a new solenoid that they think will solve the problem.
who cares what the dealer repair-shop thinks he (bkinblk) has a real problem, that can happen. Do not wonder look for the answer and post it.
It does not mean all TOYOTA HAVE THIS PROBLEM---The point is man that your car was not mention whatsoever----so cool out---go race somebody enjoy your car be greatful it doesent have a permanent wheel alignment problem :P
VOOOMMMMMM 280/hp---- I just saw a lexus hesitate. .
"A question for rewop, pricecutter, int, pjasek, bikegal, williamt and any others who have experienced transmission glitches: Do you agree that "sometimes-indecisive transmission" correctly describes what you have experienced? "
YES. And furthermore, let there be no doubt--this machine has plenty of scramble and it comes out quickly, as I have learned now that my Limited is broken in sufficiently. In fact, that's why the transmission sometimes makes me a little uncomfortable--you have to measure carefully to get the right low-speed response because that big engine will do what you ask, and very quickly. As they say, be careful what you ask for!
Also I made some remarks about the ride, which is harsher than my older Avalon. But don't let me give the wrong impression--I love this car already, and doubt there is anything available right now that can match it for the money. And on a recent thousand-mile trip I got no more tired than I would have in the '02. How could I, with the car doing nearly everything for me?
"In the Avalon if you don't like the automatic transmisson you can always downshift or upshift by pushing the lever to + or - position
"Yeah, this is sort of what I was thinking. At the moment that the transmission begins to play musical gears, would a simple jab towards "+" or "-" snap it out of it?"
Well, sherr. But really, it isn't so big a deal as all that. I find you quickly adapt to the way it works, and learn to work with it rather than at cross-purposes. However, I do like the manual feature of that transmission and how easy it is to employ when you need it (almost invariably slowing down, as on an exit ramp).
havalongavalon writes: A question for rewop, pricecutter, int, pjasek, bikegal, williamt and any others who have experienced transmission glitches: Do you agree that "sometimes-indecisive transmission" correctly describes what you have experienced?
I would describe it as "slow transmission engagement at low speed." Here is what happens in my case. When I coast at low speed, for example, I notice a red traffic light ahead and take my foot off the gas, the car then continues forward as if in gear and after a period of time it feels as if the transmission shifts to neutral, the rpms drop to below 1,000. Then the traffic light changes when my speed is about 5 - 10 mph and I slowly depress the accelerator. The engine rpms increase about 300 - 500 rpms but there is no acceleration. Then the transmission gets the message and we start to accelerate.
This is the only situation I have noticed the transmission and engine being out of synch. Perhaps if I depressed the accelerator faster when the light changes it might help.
Toyota has had complaints re transmission hesitation with Lexus too. I drove my daughters 2005 Lexus and it hesitated 5-6 times in 10 miles.
I have had two Crown Victorias ant the transmission hesitated when I slowed and resumed acceleration. This is not uncommon and happens from time to time in many cars. Ranrom problems are liveable. I doubt Toyota will do anything as this has been going on for several years.
Hi Havalong...... Thanks for the link to this review. We have owned our new Avalon for about 2 months now and have not noticed any great amount of transmission indecision. We live in an area where we are going up and down hills every day and the transmission would be shifting up and down to adjust for the different elevation. On our first test drive of the new Avalon I did notice a sudden downshift as I returned the car to the dealer's lot. This was more of a sudden jerk and a clunk, which made me wonder what had happened. I passed this off an abnormal occurance and have wondered ever since if I would encounter this again. When we picked up our new car, I was a little concerned if this problem would ever show up in our car. Fortunately It has not reocurred and If it does maybe by then Toyota will have a fix. Great news.......I am back behind the wheel again and it sure is nice to tool around in this great car. Thanks again and keep up the great posts!!!!! Gladiator99
I have twice requested (with no response) someone to post a picture of their Cassis Pearl Limited (or any other model). Please!!!!! Someone!!!! I'm dying to see what mine is going to look like, even if it has an indecisive transmission.
I have owned the XLS for 3 weeks and love it. great car, good mileage and awesome power in a smoothe riding car. I have the Blizzard pearl which required a wait while it was built. Everything works great except the remote start. Since mine was the first the dealer ordered with the feature we didn't know it's very limited range of operation. It will only start the car within 80 ft or so. We have tried it in various situations and it's a very weak feature versus other remote starters. My wife loves the aftermarket unit on her Highlander. The Avalon can't be started from inside her office while the Highlander starts each time.I ordered it for the cold winter days when it's nice to start and warm the car before leaving work. It won't do it. I wasted $450 on that feature and the dealer/Toyota don't seem concerned. Trying to find out if I void the warranty by adding another unit with the range I need. Toyota Service thinks it will affect the warranty. As of now I'm stuck. So if you want this feature make sure you know what you're getting performance wise. Otherwise the car is great...Toyota just missed the boat with the remote start.
Dean Have you tried Precision Toyota in Tampa ? Try emailing the internet sales dept. I just gor my XLS with VSC Thursday in Titanium and they have a bunch coming in .
I would describe it as "slow transmission engagement at low speed." Here is what happens in my case. When I coast at low speed, for example, I notice a red traffic light ahead and take my foot off the gas, the car then continues forward as if in gear and after a period of time it feels as if the transmission shifts to neutral, the rpms drop to below 1,000. Then the traffic light changes when my speed is about 5 - 10 mph and I slowly depress the accelerator. The engine rpms increase about 300 - 500 rpms but there is no acceleration. Then the transmission gets the message and we start to accelerate.
This is exactly what others are callinhg "hesitation". Call it what you want, but it can happen as you describe, slowing for a red light, light changes to green before you fully come to a stop, you press on the accelerator to go and nothing happens for a moment of time -- fraction of a second for some, full 2 secs. or more for others. Another situation is in a merge lane, trying to move into highway speed traffic, you see a break in traffic, press the accelerator and nothing for a moment or several moments in time. Or you are slowing in a turn lane and there is a break in traffic, so you press the accelerator to move forward and again, nothing. I guess some (rewop) are having the problem so I don't know if you can say it is non-existent in the '05 Avalon. One thing that has been true of the other models where it has been reported is that not everyone experiences and even the ones experiencing it seem to feel it to different degrees (differing times before it takes it to engage and go). So for all of those who are driving problem free, enjoy! To all those with the problem, it sounds like there could be some fixes on the horizon. The software upgrade referenced in the article just came out in April and only for the Lexus ES330, so we will have to see. The solenoid repair has just been reported by one Edmunds poster (who also has a Lexus btw), not even a TSB yet that I am aware of, but hopefully one of these two fixes will be expanded to other models and do the trick.
It is premature to conclude this as a transmission hesitation. What he described could be duplicated with just about all cars with automatic transmission. I have felt this kind of "hesitation" in a 1999 Regal, 2002 Century, and many other cars. With all due respect I have to question your motive as to why you are hanging around this forum. I have noticed that you have linked the article on Lexus hesitation at least 6 or 7 times on just about all Toyota/Lexus forums. It seems you are trying to dig out a problem where none exists.
Hi bakeroid!! Try logging on to www.tirerack.com where you can look for custom wheels for the 05 avalon. You can then select any current color offered by Toyota and you'll see your dream car in cassis pearl. This site has a great selection of custom wheels if you intend to change them. The image shows a side view but it will definitely show you the Avalon colors. Regards.................Gladiator99
Anyhow folks, ever since I started posting to this group I have been thinking, and rethinking my options in terms of the car I will be purchasing soon. My List of options has been changing numerous times, but I think I have finally settled on a realistic list of options of the cars that are under consideration:
Choice #1: Toyota Avalon Limited 2005 Choice #2: Lexus ES 330 2005
As it now stands choice #1 has a major lead over choice #2. The point of interest here is that if I were to decide against the Avalon Limited: I honestly think I would prefer the Lexus ES 2005 as opposed to other trims of the Avalon. Of course, this isn't my final call. Originally the following were (but no longer are) under consideration: Audi A4, Lexus GS 300, Infiniti G35, Acura TL. My plan is to make the final decision and actual purchase between Mid-October and Mid-November.
Hi Bakeroid... go to www.ebay.com and do a search on 2005 Toyota Avalon. There is a Cassis Pearl Touring model for sales and there are pictures. I looked at the picture on tirerack.com but the color is a bit off (at least on my computer). I may be getting my Cassis Pearl next week !!!
motown, I've seen these types of posts before where someone is disgruntled for whatever reason with the manufacturer and tries to discredit the product no matter what. The current generation Camry had this "problem" and it was "fixed" by a software "reflash" of the cars' computer. That was well documented by Mr. Healy of USA TODAY in his review of the V6 Camry in model year 2002. It took a while for the dealer's service department to find out about it. As a matter of fact I brought it up to my service department as I had a customer with that problem. A TSB was issued shortly after. Mackabee
Sounds like someone needs to start an Avalon 2005 Problems and Solutions board so these things can be discussed. There is a board devoted to hesitation problems for those who do not wish to keep their head stuck in the sand. "Engine Hesitation (All makes/models)"
For those who care, what rewop describes is EXACTLY what is described in the new Lexus ES330 TSB for the hesitation problem ( http://www.mycgiserver.com/~nonlinear/TSB.pdf ) and EXACTLY what those in models that I thought had the same tranny and engine as the Avalon have been experiencing. If it is not happening at all in ANY Avalon, it would be nice to know what the fix was ... is it the ECM calibration that even the Toyota spokesperson in the linked article says isn't a 100 % fix or could it be a hardware fix? Keep in mind that even in the models where owners admit to problems, not everyone experiences the hesitation. So for those of you who don't have the problem, you likely have a perfectly fantastic car, happy trails.
Which by then your vehicle choice(s) will have changed, again. The new ES330 or ES335 whichever engine they decide to put in will be out. No disrespect here ryan, but you sound like a poster on the Scion tC board who at first couldn't decide between a tC and a KIA Sportage (that's right a Kia!) then, the tC or Mazda 3, now the tC, the Mazda 3, and the Sportage are out of the running. It's the Scion xA special release series 2.0 that this poster is dreaming. Decisions, decisions, decisions......
This is not a problem with the car but a problem with the way some folks drive. In my 8 years plus of experience with Toyota vehicles I have seen this first hand with folks who press the accelarator then release it and press again. All you are doing is confusing the electronics in the car which is trying to "learn" so to speak your way of driving. I remember taking a vehicle (Camry) to a customers home that was about 50 miles from the store. On the way back he kept doing what I described an I noticed it was a habit he had and was not aware he was doing it. In order for the car to downshift you have to fully depress the accelarator, all the way down to the floor. Mack
At a local auto show here in Dallas, Buick displayed their new Lucerne...it's larger and more luxurious than the LaCrosse and actually a bit less expensive than the Avalon LTD even in mid line trim. It won't be available until September but do check it out. My wife was all hot for the Avalon until we saw the Buick. Now we have to wait to test drive them both and decide. I would suggest you might do the same
ryandse, folks, I have had a limited avalon ordered since March 10. I finally received a temporary VIN #, and a manufacture date of May 23. Does anyone know how long after the manufacture date until the car arrives to the dealer? Additionally, I have noticed that the Highlander has the tire gauge like the Highlander and Lexus cars. I was also notified that Toyota through the media has stated that all their toyota Camry's and Highlander's were going to have tire gauges. However, I noticed that the Limited Avalon does not have such. I am amazed since the Limited is the top of the line for the Avalon's. Does anyone have other data?
mackabee, Thank you so much for your post. I was beginning to think something was wrong with me and perhaps I didn't know what hesitation was. But I do, and you confirm for me Mack, that I must have the perfect XLS Avalon because I have no hesitation whether going slow or fast. Also when firmly pressing on the accelerator from a stop I fly off without a seconds hesitation or when pressing hard while doing ten or twenty or 40 miles an hour without even being aware of gear changes, that's how quiet and smooth it is, and I'm not deaf yet, and I have no reason to lie, I would say it if it were otherwise. With all this talk about hesitation, I had to see for myself so tested it out today in different scenarios, etc. Well I guess Mack you must be right, maybe I know how to step on the gas pedal. I don't know whether people are making a mountain out of a molehill or not, And Ryan I think when October comes around you will have changed your mind again, but either way I wish you good luck. One can overdo the research because nothing is perfect.
Hi Jordan7: I tried buying an Avalon through UBS after learning I was eligible because of my employer's affiliation w/UBS, but because I live in Montgomery County, Maryland, the UBS agent I dealt with said they could not authorize a purchase from the Glen Burnie dealer, and that if I wanted to buy through UBS, I'd have to wait for UBS to find a Montgomery County dealer willing to offer pre-negotiated low prices for Avalons, and as of 5/1/2005, they had not found any.
I was very upset because if the Glen Burnie dealer was happy to sell them to people in their area, then why in the world wouldn't they want to sell one more to me? The UBS guy could not argue with the logic, but insisted that I couldn't buy from the Glen Burnie dealer, so I negotiated w/3-4 dealers before getting my deal from Darcars of Silver Spring.
Jordan7, could you elaborate on what your deal was? I checked one of my posts from the second week of April, to which you responded you had bought your Limited for $500 less than I paid for my XLS w/VSC, JBL stereo, mats, wheel locks and glass breakage sensor, which was $30,557 before tax, 2yr registration, fees, etc, which brought my total to $32,399 to get my car "in the driveway". Thanks in advance for your time. Regards, Deanie
I don't know how it's possible to not detect the transmission hesitation in the 2005 Avalon. All you need to do is to press the gas 1/2 of the way down and release it 1/2 of a second later. Nothing happens, and the tachometer doesn't register anything. Exactly same problem with all the other Toyota models that share this transmission (ES330, Camry V6, Sienna, and certain other models).
Comments
Well of course they are going to claim its superior. You don't sell something by instilling doubt about your product
For those of you that already realize this, my apologies. I just don't want folks like bikergal to feel like their thoughts are not welcomed. Too much enthusiasm can be unproductive.
Yes, it is hard to notice flaws when you have just bought the car of your dreams and laid out more than 35 grand for it, but there are some aspects to the Limited that I am not as pleased with as I wish I were. One of them is the transmission at very low speeds, particularly when you are transitioning from slowing down to speeding up again in traffic. But the '02 had a similar tendancy, so I am somewhat accustomed to working with it, waiting for it to catch up to my throttle movements.
The other is the ride. I expected it would be like the silky big-car feel of my beloved '02, but instead it is more choppy and feels every pebble. There, too, I still prefer it to other cars--except for that great 2002 XL Avalon. What surprises me is that the Limited feels more like a Touring model I tested and disliked, instead of like the very smooth XLS. I wonder why this is?
BTW, I had bad scratches on rear bumper repaired at my dealer--I think they even put the dust back on! It is utterly like new, and only cost $168. Thanks, Mackabee, for the tip.
Any historical precedence or news on whether Toyota has plans to eventually make the nav. system available to other trim levels?
I really don't want to rent a vehicle for 2-3 months while Toyota builds one for me.
I'll check with dealers outside the SE distributorship, but then I need to consider the logistics of getting there and driving back or having it shipped.
All that stated, *IF* you couldn't get an Avalon, what cars would you be looking at? The Maxima is just ugly to me and I really don't want a Buick or Ford 500.
I'm willing to go to $40k if need be.
I really prefer a full sized car, but my options open up a good bit if I go to mid sized.
I'm pretty bummed out. I never thought it would be impossible to get a Limited. Even the XLS's available are spotty and colors I don't want like Indigo Blue.
Only 2 options I must have are VSC and NAV.
Anyways, what would you be looking at if the Avalon wasn't available?
TIA
Dean
Mackabee
Mackabee
Mackabee
http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/reviews/healey/2005-02-10-avalon_x.htm
I found myself agreeing 100% with his observations. Healey wrote an overall extremely positive review. He highlighted most of the great features that contributors to this list are excited about. A few quotes:
"The latest Avalon is a stunning piece of work..."
"Here's what Toyota did to improve the already respected, if not celebrated, Avalon: Everything."
"The new Avalon is:
* Bigger, though no bulky behemoth.
* More powerful.
... Its crisp response to the throttle and keen, mature growl under the spurs beg you to use all that oomph. The '05 is an Avalon that likes to romp, ...
* Stylish.
* Sportier
* Fancier."
And here is, verbatum, the one negative feature, as Healey described it:
"A sometimes-indecisive transmission is the one mechanical hiccup noticed during the test drives. In stop-and-go traffic or cruising at walking speed looking for an address or street sign, the transmission can't settle on a gear. Little jerks and shudders come through as the transmission hunts for the right ratio. Disappointing in such a well-done car."
You know what? Healey was right. A number of contributors to this forum have also noticed transmission shifting misbehaviors that they described as "hesitation", "inappropriate shifting" or "transmission hunting" [rewop #5029, havalongavalon #5045, pricecutter #5159, int #5221, pjasek #5340, bikegal #5345, williamt #5350].
On the other hand, many other owners may have honestly not noticed any shifting problem, or choose to ignore it, which is OK, but does not take away from the fact that for some owners this can be a blemish in the otherwise excellent performance.
I like best the term that Healey used: "sometimes-indecisive transmission". I like least the term "hesitation". "Hesitation" has the connotation of a sluggish, delayed response after stepping on the gas, something that was a problem with some Lexi and Camrys, but it is my understanding that this kind of hesitation has not been observed by 2005 Avalon drivers.
A question for rewop, pricecutter, int, pjasek, bikegal, williamt and any others who have experienced transmission glitches: Do you agree that "sometimes-indecisive transmission" correctly describes what you have experienced?
A final comment: this "sometimes-indecisive transmission" behaviour may be annoying or disappointing, but in my experience, it has never been dangerous. The forward motion of the car is hardly affected by extra shifting activity when it happens. Which may be the reason why many more drivers honestly don't notice the extra shifting, even if it also happens to them sometimes.
Regards to all,
havalongavalon
You see? The 2005 Avalon has a "sometimes-indecisive transmission". No hesitation, at all.
havalongavalon
One question though, will the Azera be manufactured in the U.S.? If so, where? And could the Americanization of the car compromise its quality.
A person posting on the Engine Hesitation board (bkinblk) said that he has been contacted by Toyota or Lexus (can't recall which) about a new solenoid that they think will solve the problem.
I will definitely have to check out the Azera. Actually, I have been reading about these improvements and I even took a look at the new Hyundai Sonata. It's look almost works for me, but it looks a bit old-school for my taste. My guess is that the Azera might be more attractive (any one have any links to pics of it?).
One question though, will the Azera be manufactured in the U.S.? If so, where? And could the Americanization of the car compromise its quality
That's a good question bwia. Based on all the reports I've read, and the consensus of this forum, it sounds like the Americanization of the Avalon hasn't had adverse effects on quality control. But, since the Avalon 2005 is so new, one has to assume that the reliability of the previous model will carry over to the new one: so long-term reliability remains to be seen. Furthermore, the americanization of a Toyota sedan isn't necessarily the same as the americanization of one from Hyundai.
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05102/486687.stm and that is where the quote I included is from.
Again, it does not mention the Avalon specifically, but it is about a software upgrade for Toyota and Lexus 2002 - 2005 with 5-speed automatic transmissions. Does the Avalon have a different transmission from the Lexus? I thought these were essentially the same cars with different names (and additional luxury features in the Lexus).
f111d, "2006 Hyundai Azera" #30, 5 Jul 2004 5:15 pm
Enjoy!
Yeah, this is sort of what I was thinking. At the moment that the transmission begins to play musical gears, would a simple jab towards "+" or "-" snap it out of it?
who cares what the dealer repair-shop thinks he (bkinblk) has a real problem,
that can happen.
Do not wonder look for the answer and post it.
It does not mean all TOYOTA HAVE THIS PROBLEM---The point is man that
your car was not mention whatsoever----so cool out---go race somebody enjoy your car be greatful it doesent have a permanent wheel alignment problem :P
VOOOMMMMMM 280/hp---- I just saw a lexus hesitate.
YES. And furthermore, let there be no doubt--this machine has plenty of scramble and it comes out quickly, as I have learned now that my Limited is broken in sufficiently. In fact, that's why the transmission sometimes makes me a little uncomfortable--you have to measure carefully to get the right low-speed response because that big engine will do what you ask, and very quickly. As they say, be careful what you ask for!
Also I made some remarks about the ride, which is harsher than my older Avalon. But don't let me give the wrong impression--I love this car already, and doubt there is anything available right now that can match it for the money. And on a recent thousand-mile trip I got no more tired than I would have in the '02. How could I, with the car doing nearly everything for me?
"Yeah, this is sort of what I was thinking. At the moment that the transmission begins to play musical gears, would a simple jab towards "+" or "-" snap it out of it?"
Well, sherr. But really, it isn't so big a deal as all that. I find you quickly adapt to the way it works, and learn to work with it rather than at cross-purposes. However, I do like the manual feature of that transmission and how easy it is to employ when you need it (almost invariably slowing down, as on an exit ramp).
I would describe it as "slow transmission engagement at low speed." Here is what happens in my case. When I coast at low speed, for example, I notice a red traffic light ahead and take my foot off the gas, the car then continues forward as if in gear and after a period of time it feels as if the transmission shifts to neutral, the rpms drop to below 1,000. Then the traffic light changes when my speed is about 5 - 10 mph and I slowly depress the accelerator. The engine rpms increase about 300 - 500 rpms but there is no acceleration. Then the transmission gets the message and we start to accelerate.
This is the only situation I have noticed the transmission and engine being out of synch. Perhaps if I depressed the accelerator faster when the light changes it might help.
rewop
That, and perhaps pushing the shifter towards "+" immediately when you want to start to speed up again, might reduce or elliminate the delay.
I have had two Crown Victorias ant the transmission hesitated when I slowed and resumed acceleration. This is not uncommon and happens from time to time in many cars. Ranrom problems are liveable. I doubt Toyota will do anything as this has been going on for several years.
Ange1
Thanks for the link to this review. We have owned our new Avalon for about 2 months now and have not noticed any great amount of transmission indecision. We live in an area where we are going up and down hills every day and the transmission would be shifting up and down to adjust for the different elevation.
On our first test drive of the new Avalon I did notice a sudden downshift as I returned the car to the dealer's lot. This was more of a sudden jerk and a clunk, which made me wonder what had happened. I passed this off an abnormal occurance and have wondered ever since if I would encounter this again. When we picked up our new car, I was a little concerned if this problem would ever show up in our car. Fortunately It has not reocurred and If it does maybe by then Toyota will have a fix.
Great news.......I am back behind the wheel again and it sure is nice to tool around in this great car.
Thanks again and keep up the great posts!!!!!
Gladiator99
Bakeroid
Otherwise the car is great...Toyota just missed the boat with the remote start.
Have you tried Precision Toyota in Tampa ? Try emailing the internet sales dept. I just gor my XLS with VSC Thursday in Titanium and they have a bunch coming in .
This is exactly what others are callinhg "hesitation". Call it what you want, but it can happen as you describe, slowing for a red light, light changes to green before you fully come to a stop, you press on the accelerator to go and nothing happens for a moment of time -- fraction of a second for some, full 2 secs. or more for others. Another situation is in a merge lane, trying to move into highway speed traffic, you see a break in traffic, press the accelerator and nothing for a moment or several moments in time. Or you are slowing in a turn lane and there is a break in traffic, so you press the accelerator to move forward and again, nothing. I guess some (rewop) are having the problem so I don't know if you can say it is non-existent in the '05 Avalon. One thing that has been true of the other models where it has been reported is that not everyone experiences and even the ones experiencing it seem to feel it to different degrees (differing times before it takes it to engage and go). So for all of those who are driving problem free, enjoy! To all those with the problem, it sounds like there could be some fixes on the horizon. The software upgrade referenced in the article just came out in April and only for the Lexus ES330, so we will have to see. The solenoid repair has just been reported by one Edmunds poster (who also has a Lexus btw), not even a TSB yet that I am aware of, but hopefully one of these two fixes will be expanded to other models and do the trick.
Try logging on to www.tirerack.com where you can look for custom wheels for the 05 avalon. You can then select any current color offered by Toyota and you'll see your dream car in cassis pearl. This site has a great selection of custom wheels if you intend to change them. The image shows a side view but it will definitely show you the Avalon colors.
Regards.................Gladiator99
Choice #1: Toyota Avalon Limited 2005
Choice #2: Lexus ES 330 2005
As it now stands choice #1 has a major lead over choice #2. The point of interest here is that if I were to decide against the Avalon Limited: I honestly think I would prefer the Lexus ES 2005 as opposed to other trims of the Avalon. Of course, this isn't my final call. Originally the following were (but no longer are) under consideration: Audi A4, Lexus GS 300, Infiniti G35, Acura TL. My plan is to make the final decision and actual purchase between Mid-October and Mid-November.
Mackabee
For those who care, what rewop describes is EXACTLY what is described in the new Lexus ES330 TSB for the hesitation problem ( http://www.mycgiserver.com/~nonlinear/TSB.pdf ) and EXACTLY what those in models that I thought had the same tranny and engine as the Avalon have been experiencing. If it is not happening at all in ANY Avalon, it would be nice to know what the fix was ... is it the ECM calibration that even the Toyota spokesperson in the linked article says isn't a 100 % fix or could it be a hardware fix? Keep in mind that even in the models where owners admit to problems, not everyone experiences the hesitation. So for those of you who don't have the problem, you likely have a perfectly fantastic car, happy trails.
:sick:
Mackabee
Mack
MikeS.
I tried buying an Avalon through UBS after learning I was eligible because of my employer's affiliation w/UBS, but because I live in Montgomery County, Maryland, the UBS agent I dealt with said they could not authorize a purchase from the Glen Burnie dealer, and that if I wanted to buy through UBS, I'd have to wait for UBS to find a Montgomery County dealer willing to offer pre-negotiated low prices for Avalons, and as of 5/1/2005, they had not found any.
I was very upset because if the Glen Burnie dealer was happy to sell them to people in their area, then why in the world wouldn't they want to sell one more to me? The UBS guy could not argue with the logic, but insisted that I couldn't buy from the Glen Burnie dealer, so I negotiated w/3-4 dealers before getting my deal from Darcars of Silver Spring.
Jordan7, could you elaborate on what your deal was? I checked one of my posts from the second week of April, to which you responded you had bought your Limited for $500 less than I paid for my XLS w/VSC, JBL stereo, mats, wheel locks and glass breakage sensor, which was $30,557 before tax, 2yr registration, fees, etc, which brought my total to $32,399 to get my car "in the driveway". Thanks in advance for your time.
Regards,
Deanie