2005-2007 Toyota Avalon

johncdnrockies

I've never received one of those questionnaires - not when we bought the car, nor for any repair work this past year.

For the record, when we bought the car (new) I actually sent it out to be professionally cleaned on my dime as it was filthy throughout (looked like a New York City cab). Dropped that dealership right away and then every time our car was serviced at the next one the carpets (sometimes the leather seats) would come back with grease stains on the drivers side. We also had the vehicle bumper damaged while at the lot and general service levels have been pretty dubious. 3rd dealer (a) didn't respond on one enquiry and (b) stated trtansmission is working as designed" (as did dealer #2).

I'm sticking with dealer #2 as they are close to the Calgary house. Once the car is off lease it will go to an independent mechanic (Kal-O-Tire actually) who looks after one of our other cars as well.

I'm just grateful to have the rig's transmission issues fixed thanks to this site. After that we will go back to good old Mercedes and forget the fine folks at Toyota. Had 6 new Toyotas prior to ten years ago but they have really fallen off the wagon as best I can tell Mackabee. No worries, life is too short to seat the small stuff now that its running OK.

ange

Can anyone give us a laymans explaination regarding how the super computer remembers a person's driving habits and makes the transmission shift smoother? Why didn't the computer self correct the factory settings when we first started to drive the car?

I have worked with engineers to program calculations with using formulas. Does the computer add up all of the bad transmission shifts and all of the good ones and average the two and uses the average to make future shifts?

My dealer tells me it takes 3-4 driving periods, allowing the car to cool down, between the driving intervals. This may be where the "about 500 miles comes from".

ange3

ange

I agree with you about the air borne bacteria causing the air conditioning odor. I have seen slime scraped off water and placed on the ground. In weeks this became septic. I have run bacteria counts on water samples and the concern begins when the non-harmfull baceria, sometimes called soil bacteria, increase in population beyond the acceptable level. In drinking water standards, the number is less than 500 plate counts is acceptable.

I believe the problem is compounded by the carbon filter used. While the activated carbon adsorbs odors it also is a food source for bacteria. This in turn serves as sort of a greenhouse where bacteria can live and multiply.

Most of all of the carbon filters installed on building drinking fountains have been removed because they feed and harbor bacteria and actually polute the water.

The point I am trying to make is, while the odor is offensive, when does the bacteria increase until it becomes a medical problem? One possible explaniation for random issues with odors is, if you drive often the slime -bacteria on the coil remain moist and continues to grow. Possibly if you drive at, say weeky or longer intervals, the bacteria may dry up and die, and have little or no problem.

ange3

wwest

Quite some time ago I happened to find an engineering "white paper" posted on the internet concerning this driver habit/style learning issue.

As I remember it today...

Within a fairly short time of the driver starting the car into motion the learning technique will categorize the driver into 1 of 4 types. Within an additional driver period it does a "finer", more definitive, categorization, now into 1 of 16 styles/types. From that time forward it keeps a "rolling" record of the previous (2 minutes??) period and will change the category "on the fly" if the driver changes him/her driving style/type.

The "record" is ERASED each type the ignition is turned off, in preparation for the possibility of a new/different driver in the next drive cycle.

Some of the confusion, especially for the dealer personnel, arises from the fact that there are two types of learning that these ECUs perform, driver style/type, and control system parametric sensor signals and servomotor feedback sensors.

Two examples of the 500 mile learning period:

1. Prior to DBW almost all vehicles used an "off-the shelf" electric solenoid as a linear servomotor to control the idle air bypass flow. The idle RPM rate was set by the factory at say, 800 RPM, the downstream oxygen sensor is used as feedback for "learning" the correct level (no residual "unburned" oxygen in the exhaust gasses) of A/F mixture to attain that RPM.

Over time the engine ECU "learns" the correct voltage setting for that idle air bypass solenoid.

2. Most vehicles today use the downstream oxygen sensor to "calibrate" and learn, track, the tolerances, of the MAF/IAT signal levels. At idle or just cruising along at a constant speed the A/F mixture is controlled strictly and ONLY by the oxygen sensor(s). If you wish to accelerate, or use engine torque levels beyond normal cruising (uphill, towing, etc.) the system must enrich the mixture beyond the range of the oxygen sensing capability and so a switch is made to using ONLY the MAF/IAT signals to control the A/F mixture.

So the 500 mile learning period, or sometimes referred to as "drive cycles" have absolutely NOTHING to do with driver style or techniques.

algee

Excellent!
Thank you for this informative note.

It answers questions for me.

pat

Hey Willard, have you seen our new Member Blog feature? That would be a great central place for you to discuss this and other related issues. You are a wealth of information on these things and to have your comments collected all in one place would be very helpful for many owners across the make/model spectrum. Have a look and see what you think.

wwest

I've already had a look but am on vacation in MT at the moment and can't take the time to write the long desertation that would be required of any of the various automotive related subjects that I "follow".

Will be back home next weekend.

MT 236 to the P&N bridge, from Lewistown, is one beautiful drive.

pat

Cool! Enjoy the rest of your vacation. It'll wait until you get back.

jlsexton

Anywhere near Alberton ????????????

ange

Thanks for the info. Maybe the dealers should get an explaination. Their general statment of the computer-transmission has to learn the drivers driving habits is a bit off.

Thanks for a real explaination.

ange3

ange

I was reading some past forum posts and read yours re the car jerking right before you came to a complete stop.

This is exactly one of the crazy shifts noticed after driving home from the TBE fix for the 2005. After some real heated discussion with the service manager he agreed to contact corporate technical for answers and get back to me. Next day he tells me another procedure not listed on the TBS was suggested to get it right. This second try appears to be right on, with about 20 miles driving. The braking as you approach a stop, either slow or fast, dos not jerk into a lower gear. The down shifting, when in auto, appears to be slower and more braking is required. More time is needed to follow this a few times.
ange3

So far I am pleased with the fix. I would insist, demand, request,and tell them I will not go away until it is right.
ange3

andy82471

Me and my father test drove a 2007 Avalon about a month and a half ago and was very impressed with the car. Smooth, responsive transmission, no squeaks and rattles, no bump from the behind feel when you come to a stop etc that some people on this forum are complaining about. My guess is, the car we drove probably had all the TSB done. But my dad bought a Salsa red Lexus IS350 in the end. Costs a bit more than the Avy but definitely worth it.

tjc78

I am surprised he would have even shopped the two. The ES and the Avalon cross paths, but the IS is a totally different animal. Much smaller than the Av and RWD with a sport suspension. Sounds like he was in the market for a sports sedan, something the Avalon is not (even in Touring form).

jlsexton

The ES and the Camry I thought were the same vehicle with all the Lexus upgrades. And you are correct the Lexus IS is as you stated, living in the Northeast with all the snow & ice I'll take the front wheel drive. My Limited was built on June 6th. 2006, I've had had none of the problems portrayed here so either I was lucky or the problem is erradic and not on every Avalon. Also I drive consistantly, I drive this as the large family car it is, perhaps the driving habits one has contributes to the tranny behavior. I truly feel sorry for all that purchased Toyota for their quality and instead received their arrogance.

andy82471

Actually I kinda made him buy the IS so I can drive it once in a while. If it was up to him, he probably would have gone for the Avalon. Since he lives in Chapel Hill, North Carolina, where it rarely snows, the traction advantage of FWD is kinda moot.

johncdnrockies

Must admit that the latest tranny update has made an incredible difference in our satisfaction levels. It drives like a completely different vehicle!

The tranny shifting pattern was my only complaint. Now that it is fixed I'm very pleased and use it as my main rig.

gohawaiian

Maybe some of you who have done the transmission fix can let us know whether you're seeing any adverse effects in your mpg figures (city, highway, overall) compared to what you were getting prior to the repair. I believe someone recently predicted on this board that mpg would likely drop by about 4 mpg after making the changes called for by Toyota's TSB.

vicm

Had my TSB transmission work completed two weeks ago. Have put over 400 miles on the car. It feels like a completely different vehicle. Smooth as silk. I have noticed a increase in gas mileage both city and highway driving. Before the fix the max I was getting was 26 highway. Today its 29/30 mpg. My last fillup indicated 26 overall. Never expected this kind of improvement. I should mention its a 05 Avalon LTD.

johncdnrockies

After 3 fillups and about 600 miles of driving, I can report that there has been no change to our mileage. For control purposes I drove 150 mles (after fill) on a barren, flat road on cruise control. Speed was only 60 mph with no passing. We have driven this stretch many times before (leads to a favorite recreation area) and the mileage over those 150 miles was 34 miles per US gallon. This is slightly better to what I have previoiusly recorded for the same jaunt.

The same is largely true of our city driving, but of course that is very variable, so I can't offer any true comparisons in that area.

I have always been impressed with the gas mileage for this size of car. Sometimes I wonder whether the trip computer is lying, but I can certainly testify that our gas mileage is the same as before the transmission memory reflash.

fin

Always keep in mind that you may be doing even better than you think! Many '05 and later Avalons have odometers that read 3% low. You actually travel 103 miles and register 100 on the instrument panel. Check yours with the mile markers on a nearby interstate. It will take less than 5 miles to really see the 3%.

This is nothing new and has been posted many times. Didn't believe it till I tried it. Yes, my '07 Limited odo is 3% low. Speed is accurate, just the miles are off. Go figure... in this age of microcomputers... Still a great car for the money. Enjoy your Avy.

rewop

So, today is Friday and I pick up my '05 Avalon which was having the transmission TSB and an oil leak TSB performed. Good news...the low speed hesitation is gone. Bad news...the car has a major pause in the shift points between 2 and 3 and 3 and 4. First the RPMs jump about 500-1000 and then a second later the shift takes place with a solid "Thunk!" This is worse than the low speed hesitation problem. Clearly no one drove the car to test it since the problem is immediately evident. Monday it goes back. This car isn't much fun.
Rewop

vinster29

I am thinking about purchasing a 2007 Toyota Avalon Limited with VSC and I was wondering is it possible to get VSC without getting Navigation and Laser Cruise Control? All of the vehicles that I have seen so far with VSC include Navigation and Laser Cruise Control and I don't want to pay for NAV and cruise control b/c I won't use it. Any info. regarding this problem would be appreciated. Thanks.

blackdog4

Yes,it is possible. I bought my 2007 Ltd in November from a dealer South of Boston. I did place a special order. It took 6 to 8 weeks to receive it. It has the VSC. I also did not want the NAV or laser cruise control. They gave me no problem with the order but warned me accurately about the wait for the car. I paid $500 above invoice for it. Did not pay any advertising costs. You can probably get a better price now.

jlsexton

Curious, just what does $500 over invoice come to ?????

highroller2

Had the TSB fix done on an '05 touring. Took them two tries to get it right. Almost at the same time the check engine light went on and they put in a new charcoal canister. Between the two fixes the car drives like a rocket and gas milage has improved by about 4 mpg. Got 33.5 for 600 miles on the interstate. Now it is a great car.

mackabee

The 08 Avalon is right around the corner. Will be hitting dealerships in mid to late August. There is a small three quarter picture of it at www.thehollywoodextra.com it's hard to see, but the bumper is changed and the grille, not much is available yet but at least it will give you an idea of what to expect. Vinster, it will be hard to find what you're looking for at dealers lots with the new one scheduled to be built in a week or so.

Mackabee

blackdog4

The extra options were: the VSC, floor mats, and Satellite radio. I paid $32,771.

jlsexton

Thanks, I paid a little less for an 06, to be honest the only things I didn't purchase at the time were the NAV & laser cruise control but options change from year to year. Although Satellite radio is nice it goes against my grain to pay for radio, I'm not in my car long enough. Actually most of the upscale radio, cd & tape stuff is only good for a long trip, I usually drive to town in about 9 minutes as I no longer commute into Manhattan. Once again NO ONE purchase the so called remote start. The service department finally got it to work at about 10 feet from the vehicle but this stupid thing shuts off the engine as soon as you touch the door, so what good is it. My old one was good at 300 feet so you could start the car in any large parking lot in case you forgot just where you parked or just to warm it up or cool it off.

rpoenmitch

I own a 2005 XL and have heard the same noise, my problem is that now the driver side does not blow cold air but the rest of the AC vents all blow cold air.

Can someone help? What is the fix?

marklud

Does anyone know if there will be any rebates/incentives on 2007 avalons, and if the dealers are selling for "invoice" or lower?

650spx

I have a customer with a remote start issue. The customer states the car will start at night sometimes for no reason at all. I have ruled out most other transmitters due to the fact thay live about 600 feet from another house on a 50 achre plot of land. Thay have left the vechile on our lot for the past week and I unpluged the a/f semsor so it would trip a pending dtc if it did start a night. The night watchmen said he never heard it start or run at night and it never stored a dtc which if it did start it should have. I can not duplicate this customers problem. Has anyone had this problem on a 07 avalon xle with toyota factory remote start?

mackabee

There's no rebates or factory to dealer cash that I know of, at least in the CAT region. I doubt if any will be offered. There are not many Avalons left and the 08's will be here this month.

Mackabee

mackabee

I bet they are leaving the remote in their bed and while turning in their sleep press on the start button and the car starts. Reason I say this is four years ago I was in Rome at a Holiday Inn. Mack Jr. and I checked in and when we retired for the night the tv started coming on by itself. After a couple of times I got frustrated and went to the front desk. The night watchmen asked me about the remote. I didn't see a remote. I told him. Then he suggested I look between the mattress and spring box. I found the culprit and slept like a baby the rest of the night.

Mackabee

P.S. What's a vechile, a/f sensor and pending dtc? The Avalon xle doesn't exist.

ange

MY 2005 was worked on two times. After two fixes there is a jerky shift between 1-2nd gears at slow start and the same as when you almost stop, rpms jump up 1-200 rpms and jerks. I notice at times the transmission does not downshift into 3rd gear as you slow down and seems to be coasting. My front wheels sure have gotten grey-black since the fix.

The laser speed control got worse. Driving on the level and down small grades with laser control on, is fine.

Going up long hills, after dropping back 5-6 mph, the car accelerates to 4500 rpms, drops 2 gears, and races. It stops when the set speed, on Pa turnpike set at 68 mph, is reached and drops 2 gears down with a real big jerk. It was so bad I had to shut it off. The transmission, under full load, would not take too may more slams into overdrive.

ange3

Dealer is going to try again. Initially after driving about 5-10 miles I thought it really was right, but after 800 more miles it ends up worse. I would not do this fix knowing what I am going through.

pat

Hmm, wonder if he meant to say Camry instead of Avalon. He originally posted that in a Camry discussion and I moved it because it appeared to belong here...

popsavalon

Insist that your dealer install all of TSB EG 029-07, and request to watch his technician do it! It took about 10 minutes on my (07) vehicle after computer hook-up. After reading all the posts, it seems that some dealers are deciding that initial parts of this TSB ("reflash the ECM"???) are enough, and the results all seem to be bad.
Finding a dealer who really wants to fix you problems seems to be the key.

smith1

Not sure what you mean. The only thing TSB 029-27 says to do after the ECM reflash is a test drive and application of the mod sticker. The reflash is the entire procedure.

Perhaps you are thinking of the 2005 procedure, which does call for some parts to be replaced in addition to an ECM flash. But the TSB for 06-07 does not.

johncdnrockies

Believe popsavalon was responding to the message from ange. She has an '05 model which requires major replacement of a number of sensors along with the ECM reflash (yes, it is covered in a diffeerent TSB number).

blackdog4

Five days ago I had the ECM reflash done for my 2007 LTD. It has made the transmission much smoother.

mackabee

Is now on www.toyota.com
Mackabee

smith1

Only major change other than slight restyling of the front end seems to be 6-speed transmission. Based on Camry experience, not sure if this is an improvement or not.

mackabee

Also return of the 8 way power passenger seat on XLS and Limited albeit as an option. Bluetooth now available. Different style alloy wheels for Touring and XLS. Two new colors: Magnetic Gray and Classic Silver replacing Phantom Gray and Titanium metallic.
Mackabee

rayalon

My 2005 Avalon LTD is approaching the 36,000 mile mark! Two questions, if someone can help.

I do not have any transmission problems, but should I request that the "TSB" for 2005 transmission be done, or leave well enough alone? ( I did purchase the extended warranty )

Also: I will be needing new tires before the snow flies, I would like the least noise and smooth ride, the Michelins that came with the car seem satisfactory?, just wondering if anyone has experienced a better replacement.

Other than that the has car has performed super.

jlsexton

I always put Dunlops on my Camry and got over 50,000 miles and good winter traction but the standard Michelins so far have been great & quiet. As far as your tranny, well, if it ain't broke don't fix it BUT I would mention it to whomever you might know in service that it could be a potential problem and that YOU are aware of it. I've had no problem with my tranny or anything other than the remote start which only works occassionally at 20 feet or so. Guess we're lucky, certainly killed my idea of perfection in Toyotas, all these tranny problems and steering columns.

4439

I too have an 05 Limited and really didn't have the transmission issue either. There would be an issue every now and then at the slow speed and then acceleration. I took mine in for the TSB and found out my transmission was bad. They performed the TSB but afterwards the transmission shifted terrible. Toyota told them to replace it. That took 2 weeks. I have the car back and the transmission shifts as smooth as it did before and there is no slow speed/ acceleration problem as there was before.

4439

After getting my 05 Limited back after 2 weeks, I need to delete the seatbelt chime again. I followed the instructions in post 7359 and 7360 exactly. I'm not able to get the odometer to give me the option of b-on/b-off. The odometer will give me dashes, 000000, and then the correct mileage reading. When I bought the car 2 years ago I was able to disable the chime. Any suggestions?

mackabee

Yeah, buckle up! Might save your life someday.
Mack

jlsexton

I admit the chime can be annoying when a passenger takes too long to fasten it as my wife does EVERYTIME. Why on G-D's green earth would you want to turn it off, it is a reminder to fasten the belts. If it's for the purpose to NOT use the belt then I will forward you my 38 year nephews email so he can tell you what it's like to be almost a complete quadraplegic for 20 years. I've been using them since 1965, saved me a couple of times after getting rammed on the FDR. Just thought you might rethink it.......

ange

If is not broke, do mot fix it.

ange3

mackabee

Looks like the plastic wood on the 08's will be dark. No more blond plood.
Mackabee