Toyota Prius

kdhspyder

I took the last '05 at an employee price to help the store close out it's '05 sales in order to earn more vehicles next allocation. If I wanted to wait for the '06's I would be in line like everyone else and at full sticker. Immediate 'rebate' vs one in Apr '07... and I still get the $2000 deduction this year. It was close to a wash.

falconone

Got a quote from one dealer that wanted $1500 OVER MSRP for the IS. Left a bad taste in my mouth. I then saw the back room in the IS and it has 8" LESS leg room than the Prius. Sooooo..... decisions decisions. Friend just bought a white Jetta and he really likes it. Look too much like a Corolla in the back for my tastes, but otherwise a nice car. I'll wait it out. My 2002 Mercedes C230 is still my current ride. Perfect condition. Just want something different.

poppyhill

There is a used 05 Prius in the for sale by owner lot in town. It has 1750 miles on it. I asked what the deal was and was told an older couple bought 2 and the lady had some health problems and they are selling this one. I think they are asking 24,500. Not sure of the options, but this seems high. Is this a good price? It looked like the basic model but I will check tomorrow.

kdhspyder

get the info on which package it is. If it's package #4 it's about MSRP. If it's package #6 it's $2500 under MSRP and a relative steal with only 1750 miles on it.

The new '06's are just arriving and there is about a $700 increase in equivalent models.

tagman

I, too, noticed the tight rear quarters, but still a nice car. Think the prices will improve after the initial "wow" wears off?

poppyhill

Are they hard to get in California? I was actually looking at SUV's and saw this sitting there. I know it is more sensible to buy a prius..... but I am just beginning my research on them. Any quick advice? thanks

tagman

Since I live in California, I'll toss this in: When I recently looked at the Prius (I'm not a buyer for one, however. I look at cars all the time.), I did not mind giving my name and number to the salesperson, since it was asked for. Since then, I've had a few phone calls to let me know that "one is available today" or "some are coming in that are not sold". So, while I do believe that there is a waiting list, mostly for those that want it in an EXACT version, it IS possible to get the car without a huge delay. In fact, the available units seemed to be nicely equipped! All this, and I am not someone who has been TRYING to get the car!!! BTW, the price that was represented to me was MSRP, no more and no less.

backy

Another example of that, I saw an ad in today's paper for Denny Hecker's Toyota in Inver Grove Heights, MN, saying they have three 2005 Prii for immediate delivery. So they are out there if you want them..

poppyhill

I will check to see what package it is. How will I know?? I don't think the original sticker is there, but could be in the glove box. Also, this is a 2005, so wouldn't the price be a bit less than the 2006 just for depreciation purposes now that it is the end of 2005? also what are your thoughts on leasing one of the 2006's?
Thanks so much for your advice

heyjewel

You may also consider posing your question here:

sysop, "Real-World Trade-In Values" #, 15 Dec 2000 1:07 am

which hopefully points to the "real-world trade-in values board here at Edmunds. Great advice there.

kdhspyder

I just bought the last '05 we had on our lot so obviously I think its a good buy in general. If the vehicle in question has side/Curtain Airbags but no Navigation system then it's prolly a package #4. If it has a navigation system it's proly a package #6. At the price you mentioned it sounds very fair almost a steal.

If it doesnt have the navigation sys then it's prolly over priced somewhat.

midnightcowboy

Unless they gave her $10K trade-in for her Yugo! Wait maybe she jsutified it by trading in a H1 or a Sherman Tank on the signifcant gas mileage difference and resulting savings

If you want a Prius or other hybrid then fine, but just remember you will not really save much money! It has been proven over and over and over again, it takes a minimum of 5 years to recover the $3,000 premium. Think 20 years to recover a $8,000 premium.

Cheers,

MidCow

P.S.- I notice that someone has awoken the sleeping GIANT defending the Prius against premature tire wear. If you will notice he never can definitely defend himself or his beloved Priuses, he just argues himself into a tither.

falconone

Is the 3k premium still valid after Jan 1? I think the folks in Colorado have it great. They get 3k from Uncle Sam and 5k from their state. Gotta love it!!!

bobfl

I don't get the argument about the payback on buying a hybrid. It seems to me to be the only thing on a vehicle that pays back at all! Do you get any savings for buying fancy wheels or fancy audio systems etc.? Yet folks buy them all the time without a thought about payback. By the way do a search on "Peak Oil" and read about where some people think we are going. With increased demand from countries like China and India, and being close to peak production of oil, what is your guess of the price of oil in the next five to ten years? A hybrid very well may payoff big time in future years. Not to mention: do we have the moral right to squander our resources without thinking of our children and grandchildrens world?

Regards,
Bob

midnightcowboy

Falconone,

You are right the 3K tax deduction, January 1, will offset most of the additioanl cost. Which is why it is really funny here in Houston. All of a sudden all of the Toyota delears have Prius avaiaible that they are willing to sell for MSRP; before the January 1 deadline.

Cheers,

MidCow

P.S.- Are you still favoring the IS350 ? My neighbor just bought a new GS430 and really likes it.

midnightcowboy

Whoosh!

backy

Whoosh? Actually, I think Bob summed up well why many people are willing to pay a premium for hybrids like the Prius even though there is not a "payback" based on today's U.S. gas prices.

gagrice

I don't get the argument about the payback on buying a hybrid.

It has nothing to do with those that are affluent. It is a fact that you can buy a New Civic with the same seating capacity and a bit more luggage room for about $9k less than the full blown HCH with NAV. Most folks are not interested in the NAV so you knock off 2 grand and still have a $7k premium over the base Civic sedan. If you are very lucky you will get 10-15 MPG better with the hybrid. You can never justify the extra cost by gas savings. For those on a tight budget the base Civic is a SMARTER buy. If you have plenty of money and want to boost your green image, I think the hybrid option is better than the fancy wheels & other bling bling.

bobfl

Wow! Best counter argument I have heard! I'm converted, going to buy a Hummer.

Regards,

Bob

backy

Civics are off-topic, but a regular Civic is nowhere near $7-9k less than a HCH--unless maybe you compare a stripped Civic DX to a loaded HCH with nav.

larsb

quote gagrice-"Most folks are not interested in the NAV so you knock off 2 grand and still have a $7k premium over the base Civic sedan"-end quote

No No No, Gary - Uh Uh - no comparing apples to oranges, not fair

The "base level civic DX" which is $7K less than the Hybrid is NOTHING NEAR the car the hybrid is, in relation to creature comforts that people are paying for.

Quoting Edmunds:

"The budget-oriented DX offers a tilt/telescoping steering wheel and a height-adjustable driver seat but few other amenities."

Here are just SOME of the things the Hybrid has that the Civic DX does not come with standard or cannot get on the DX at all:

external temperature display
automatic climate control
real-time fuel consumption display
alloy rims
variable intermittent wipers
emergency braking assist
remote anti-theft alarm system
remote power door locks
power windows
1 one-touch power windows
power mirrors
cruise control
electric power steering
audio and cruise controls on steering wheel
front and REAR cupholders
front seatback storage
climate control
interior air filtration
front reading lights
front and rear floor mats
AM/FM in-dash single CD player with MP3 stereo, 160 watts stereo output
6 total speakers
mast antenna
speed sensitive volume control

All those items come standard on the HCH and are not standard and many are not available for the DX.

I think it's pretty standard procedure to note that the Civic Hybrid is different from the comparably equipped Civic EX by only $4000.

falconone

Lexus dealers aren't dealing on the IS. Some are asking MSRP and PLUS. Not me!! May just end up getting that spoken for Prius after all!!

FYI... Was at a party this weekend and saw my friend's brand new white Jetta. Very nice looking and he says it's similar to the A4 in feel and ride. Back of it looks like a Corolla. Excellent fit and finish and quite a buy at 25k. I'd be interested in that if I knew VW built reliable cars.

tagman

F1,
Reliability needs to a balanced consideration, not an EXTREME one. You drive a Mercedes C230 and the statistics on Mercedes aren't NEAR that of Toyota or Honda, yet with proper care and a GOOD warranty, you can have a DAILY driving experience that is dialed in to your own tastes. If you like the VW, GET IT. It's not the end of the world if it visits the shop once in a while. It's not like they are all lemons. Jetta is a nice car for the money, no doubt about it! Looks great in white as a matter of fact.
Have F-U-N!
TagMan

tagman

IMHO, as Civics compare to the Prius, they are certainly NOT off-topic, and I believe it is in poor taste to make such a remark regarding "gagrice's" comments. The Civic is the '06 Motor Trend Car of the Year, AND just received the HIGHEST safety rating for crash-worthiness for a small car! It compares favorably with the Prius, and is often the subject of comparisons, including Edmund's own comparisons between the Prius and the Civic, which you also discussed recently.

midnightcowboy

Tagman,

You crack me up. Chrysler merged with Mercedes and lowered their quality and relability. They should have merged with VW and raised VWs relability and improved Chrysler's handling. Think of it this way, when you buy a VW you will soon know the service advisors and service manager well enough that they wil probably invite you to their Christmas parties.

Toyota/Lexus (including the blown-out of proportion Prius software problems) and Acura/Honda( including the blown out of proportion auto trans problems) are at least a level in reliability above every other brand.

Having said that I like the Jetta/Golf and probably would have purchased a TDI 5-speed if everything were equal.

Again, make a Prius GT with a 6-speed and you will expand to my demographic corner. And the GT wouldn't have to be all that fast, I am only asking for wat what normal sedans and coupes get, 0-60 mph in 8 seconds of less and a decent suspension. Heck now a days many SUVs can leave the Prius in the dust ..er exhaust fumes.

At least he is not talking domestic slushmobiles.

Cheers,

P.S.- I practice what I preach ( 1 Lexus, 1 Toyota, 1 Honda ( speculation on another one))

P.S.S.- Had a friend's wife who just bought the 2006 HCH. His wife tried the Prius but said it was too wierd and strange with the smart card and an engine that started automatically just to run the air conditioner, apparentyl it came on when the salesman was demoing the features and freaked her out. And my friend a classic 911 afficionado deluxe, very very car astute.

backy

This is a discussion about the Prius, not about competitors to the Prius. Gagrice's comments were only about the Civic, and how the regular Civic compares to the HCH. There are other discussions for that. I don't see how it is in "poor taste" to point that out.

PF_Flyer

Let's stick to the Prius here. We have other topics for "comparisons".

falconone

Absolutely agree. It should be in the comparison thread. No need to throw us all off track. As to the Prius, some people have started taking delivery of the 06 models. Everyone loves the new screen as it is VERY clear. I understand the NAV now has voice commands similar to those on the Acura (SWEET). Visually, it looks like the same car but there are some very minor tweaks. Another person spoke highly of the rear backup camera and TPMS. Sounds like there will be waits similar to what we see now. Depending on where you shop, you may be able to score one without a long wait.

tagman

MidCow,
Happy to crack you up, dude. I've gotta admit, I love to throw a log on the fire once in a while. Just having fun. Your imaginary Prius sounds more like what I would like to see, but I would insist on a sunroof. What's the excuse for not having a sunroof in the Prius? (or is there finally an option now?) I had read something once about the "extra weight" would possibly cause the Prius to lose 1 precious mpg. Can that be true? I know that I would INSTANTLY give up 1 mpg to "let a little sunshine in"!! Wouldn't you? Well, I do agree, that the Prius could stand to be more car. But, to be fair, as I've said all along, the car is a pioneer in its own right. (OK, now, so where's that cool sunroof?) :shades:
TagMan

falconone

Saw one with an aftermarket. I never use mine. Waste of money and headroom.

tagman

Aftermarket sunroof? Bad idea!!!!

Factory sunroof. GOOD idea!!!!

No sunroof for you falconone! You don't use yours and you think it is a waste of money and headroom. Yikes, I think the Lexus and Jetta you were looking at has one. Oh well, just another reason for you to get the Prius so you can be deprived of the sunroof. Perfect for you.

falconone

You can get either of my other choices without a sunroof.

BTW... My Merc dealership had a grand opening (new location). Fancy cocktail party, the works. Sat in the CLS sedan. Talk about claustrophobic!! HORRIBLE!!! Makes the Prius feel HUGE compared to that cockpit.

pdubois

Even though I like a sunroof, 9 times out of 10 when I try a car with a sunroof I don't fit (I am 6'4"). I hate it when my hair (or what's left of it!) brushes the headliner! I am presently driving an 01 Outback H6 VDC and it's one of the few cars where there is enough headroom for me with a sunroof, thanks to the bumped up roof line. I will get the Prius in April (despite the crippled Canadian list of available options) and I am afraid that if there was a sunroof available, headroom might not have been good enough for me and would have prevented me from buying the car.

On a different subject, is there a consensus on which snow tires are best for the Prius? Is it possible to use regular (generic) wheel rims to mount the snow tires on for easy seasonal change? Thanks!

falconone

Try the Nokian WRs. Great all weather tire!! Very good in the snow... Superb wet traction.

pjyoung

25 mph - all on EV mode.

Mind if I ask if the engine ever starts when accelerating from a stop? Unless I REALLY feather the gas, my engine kicks in at about 10 mph and stays on until I release the gas at my desired speed. It also seems to kick in whenever I press the gas to maintain a 30-35mph speed (not hard acceleration) Just curious if others do this, or if the two I have might be doing something differently.

falconone

I've gotten it to 42 but you really have to feather it. If you have the heat on, it will trigger the ICE.

kdhspyder

For me, a Prius is just a car that gets good fuel economy and low emissions, but gives up value, luxury, acceleration, ride, and other features I want. At 16-18k, the base 22k+ version would be a good value

Well not exactly correct. The Prius is located in between the CamCords and CorVics in terms of acceleration, ride and features.

However you probably havent been driving a CamCord for the last 15 years so. The Gen2 Prius is much much better than what many Camcord drivers have been in for the last 6-10 yrs. I know, I've had 4 of them since 1990.

The Prius is roughly equivalent to the current CamCord in acceleration but admittedly all three trail the Passat. The current Prius is much better than the 90's vintage CamCords or Passats in acceleration and ride and equipment.

I happen to perfer the acceleration and smoothness of the Prius over the current Camry which I've driven nearly every day since it came out. The Prius is more fun frankly.

Regarding price, you'd be very hard pressed to find a CamCord at $16K now. Bottom price is about $18K with no features, standard or DX models.

But again as you stated about your own preferences, the Prius is not directed to the price/value buyer. That's the purpose of the standard model CamCords. The Prius found it's market segment and all is right in the world. Everyone has found what is good for themselves. Enjoy.

kdhspyder

This is the heart of the matter.

For those on a tight budget the base Civic is a SMARTER buy. If you have plenty of money and want to boost your green image, I think the hybrid option is better than the fancy wheels & other bling bling

Well put Gary. Buy what you can afford.

kdhspyder

At start up my experience is like yours.. about 10-12 mph and the ICE kicks in. I believe it's as much to charge up the battery as anything else.

However at the end of my 75 mi trip with a full battery more or less I can go about 2-3 miles decelerating and while in my neighborhood with my foot on the pedal maintaining abt 25 mph and the mpg bar pinned to 100.

I'm still learning about the P&G driving. I've never liked to ride with those drivers who were always pumping the gas pedal as they drove...speed up slow down speed up slow down. I've always driven with a constant touch enough to put the family to sleep. Maybe there was something I've been missing for a long time.

bamacar

No acceleration comparison with the latest Accord. I had a 2003 Accord LX 4 cylinder with 5 speed manual. It would accelerate as fast as 7.9 to 60 according to the car magazines. The Prius is more 9.5- 10.5. I got my Accord for 17k in late 2002, and can still get the 2006 LX with manual for about 18k. Much faster, handles better and is far cheaper. Different people; different priorities. At 18k the two would be a tossup- economy vs. performance. At 18k versus 22k+, Accord wins hands down for what I want.

kdawg69

I like the look of the Prius except for the trim rings on the wheels. Do they serve a purpose? Can I just ditch them? The pictures I've seen of the 2006 Prius left the trim rings off and I like the wheels underneath.

falconone

For that price you don't get:
(top of the line in each car)

Smart entry/exit
HIDs
Hatch versatility
NAV
Bluetooth
50 MPG EASILY on the highway
Stealth (SO COOOOOOOOOOOOL)
Electric A/C
$3,000 tax credit (woohoooooooooo)
Single occupancy car pool privileges
VSC

I can't see myself getting an Accord. Nice car for the masses. Sorta like Wonder Bread.

falconone

Ditch them. You may save the wheels from scrapes and possibly get .45 better MPG.

pdubois

I'll try the Nokian WRs. Thanks Falconone!

kdawg69

Winter is here and it's scraping time again. On my jeep I usually crank the engine to warm up the coolant/defroster while I'm scraping. It takes several minutes to heat up enough to effectively drive the front defroster.

Is the Prius front defroster electric? I assume it wouldn't be the element in the glass kind but a forced air over electric coils instead of coolant coils variant. Can the Prius immediately heat the windshield when it's "cold?"

falconone

Start car. Crank heat up to highest level. Press defroster button on steering wheel. Make hot chocolate. Get dressed. Drive to work. Gotta love it!!!

Front defroster works like any other car. No coils.

kdawg69

"No coils" means no electric heat/defrost? Same as a conventional car?

falconone

Correct...just hot air. Coils in back just like any ordinary car.

ghloeb1

Kid going to college in Chicago next fall. I'd get him a Prius but it's not 4WD. How do they perform in snow, compared to 4WDs?

tagman

Unless the price is a leap, get him a Highlander 4WD. (with or without hybrid). Better yet, get him a Honda Pilot! Better value!