Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
Options

Purchasing Used Vehicles

2456733

Comments

  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi everyone. I just changed the title of this discussion a little bit to make it a little more general. This is now the perfect place to place a link for the following new article that is available here at Edmunds.com: Used Car Best Bets. I think that a lot of you will find this piece very interesting. Please feel free to use this area to post your thoughts on the article or to suggest other used vehicles that you feel are good buys. Thanks.

    Car_man
    Host
    Smart Shoppers Message Board
  • steine13steine13 Member Posts: 2,825
    I think it's a bunch of baloney. These are all good cars, and wildly popular, and by and large a good buy on the NEW side. Precisely because they do not appreciate all that much.

    Choosing the all-stars and then talking about "[...]the large depreciation hit that typically makes a 2- or 3-year-old car (with low miles) the best value" does not make a lot of sense from any point of view.

    Also, if you put safety near the top of the criteria, why oh why are we even considering the F150? It did poorly -- and if you haven't seen the pictures, check it out online -- in the offset crash test... http://www.iihs.org.

    Edmunds does two things really well: Collecting new car data and pricing information. Providing an open forum to talk about cars.

    Leave the advice-giving to professional car people, not professional journalists.

    Ever grateful for Edmunds wonderful services,
    I remain,
    -Mathias
  • jlawrence01jlawrence01 Member Posts: 1,757
    I am so tired of all of these "best car lists" like there is one model that will meet the needs of everyone.

    My definition of a great used car is a car that meets my need, is fairly reliable with proper care and maintenance, and the acquisition cost is not an arm and a leg.
  • mirthmirth Member Posts: 1,212
    I think these "best used car" lists are really for people that are extremely nervous about buying a used car (because they're afraid of it breaking down) and whose main criteria is reliability. The cars listed here are pretty much among the best as far as that is concerned.

    If you're a regular used car buyer, there are probably more exciting or less expensive choices (or both).
  • turboshadowturboshadow Member Posts: 338
    To paraphrase David Letterman, "Mathias, once again you have crystalized my thoughts perfectly."

    Here's a few I consider good car buys because of relative reliabilty and huge depreciation hit they've taken. Fell free to pick 'em apart.

    Ford Taurus
    Buick Century
    Olds Intrigue
    Mazda Protege

    As we say down here, "whachy'allthink?"

    Turboshadow
  • jlawrence01jlawrence01 Member Posts: 1,757
    Looks like good choices for me. The Protege concerns me as many of my friends who own them report higher than average COST of repairs.

    Personally, just bought a '02 Taurus SE with 50k miles for $5500. That is a lot of car for that kind of money.

    Could get a '03 Century with 30k miles for about $10k.

    The car that I really like used are some of the newer Impalas. My wife has been getting close to 30 mpg on her '04.
  • rroyce10rroyce10 Member Posts: 9,332
    ........ Great Post ...!!!!

                                Terry :-)
  • bowke28bowke28 Member Posts: 2,185
    i would have to say, in order of MY personal preference:

    midsize car - 1 year old taurus SE ~$11k
    compact car - 1 year old nissan sentra GXE ~$9k
    minivan - 1 year old windstar SE ~$14k
    small SUV - 2 year old escape XLS ~$14k
    mid SUV - 2 year old explarer XLS ~$17k
    small pickup - 2 year old nissan king cab XE ~$11k
    large pickup - 2 year old f150 XLT supercab ~$18k

    these are retail #s, of course.
  • leomortleomort Member Posts: 453
    that I would pick would be

    Small/econo car: Chevy Prizm
    Mid size car: Buick Century
    Compact Pick-up: Ford Ranger
    Midsize SUV: Ford Explorer XLT

    Haven't research enough on other categories to make an informed decision.

                              Leo
  • butchbr73butchbr73 Member Posts: 325
    is all the Ford's on the lists of best used cars.... hmm..

    I assume for you that price is the winning factor for value? Or do we also include cost of ownership and repairs?
  • bowke28bowke28 Member Posts: 2,185
    since these are only 1 or 2 year old vehicles that are under warranty.

    if we are talking in the $5k-$7k range, then make and model matter a little more, i think.
  • leomortleomort Member Posts: 453
    in determining best value in used cars, at least for me. First would be price, second would be availability, third would be reliability.

    For example, in small economy cars, I'd pick the Prizm first, then Ford Escort 2nd. While the protege should probably be the number #2 spot, there's the problem of availability, at least around my area. Whereas, it isn't too hard to find a good used Prizm or Escort. Add in that both of these cars are cheaper than similar used protege and I come up with the PRizm and Escort being a better value. Plus all three are fairly reliable.

    In my midsize SUV, it was a compromise. Toyota 4Runners and Nissan Pathfinders while both very reliable are very expensive on the used market thus not a good value. So I had to drop down to the domestics. Out of those, I felt the Explorer was a better bet in the reliability department. Afterall Ford has built what? 2 million of these things and it's not uncommon to hear of them reaching 150k+ miles. They're readily available, and can be had at good prices.

    At least that's how I try to approach buying used vehicles.

                        Regards,

                                      Leo
  • madeuce36madeuce36 Member Posts: 1
    Hi All, I have a couple Questions about
    Dealer Fees. What sort of fees(besides tax tag and title) should I expect to have to pay and what is a resonable amount expect on these? I walked on a deal a week ago because I felt like I was being soaked. I want to pay a fair price. I understand that the dealer has to make a profit but I don't want to send his kids to college in one sale!
  • asafonovasafonov Member Posts: 401
    Correct me if I am wrong, but Escorts have been sold only to fleets (i.e., as rentals) since when - 2000? 2001? Buying a former rental may be a good deal, but it is not always and it is not for everybody.

    Also, here (Twin Cities) 2-3-4 year old used Proteges are a lot more plentiful compared to used Escorts.
  • leomortleomort Member Posts: 453
    Hi asafonov,

       Wasn't aware that in 2001(?) Escort was fleet cars. I was looking at '98 and '99 s. They were (along with Prizm) were easy to find used. I didn't even have to look very hard. The proteges were much scarcer, plus a litte more $$$. But I'm from around Pittsburgh area--30 miles northwest. I've seem to notice that people around here hold onto their Toyotas, Hondas, Mazdas, and Suburas. A few years ago I even seen 10 yr old Honda Civic del Sol w/ 90K going for $10K at a Honda dealer. Ouch and Wow! But you're right,I wouldn't consider a fleet rental car. They're usually 2yr old cars with 4yr old mileage. They don't seem discounted enough, at least to me.
  • bowke28bowke28 Member Posts: 2,185
    escort with 60k-70k miles will be a $4k-$5k car on the retail side.
  • leomortleomort Member Posts: 453
    bowke28,

       Yep, that's what we were looking for. Happen to find a '99 Prizm w/ 60k for under $5K OTD. It took only two weeks to get from the time we started looking. Should be a good daily driver and commuter car.

                                  Regards,

                                     Leo
  • jlawrence01jlawrence01 Member Posts: 1,757
    At the price that you quoted for the Escore, couldn't you buy a similar year/mileage Taurus for the same price??

    I would agree that the Escort would be a good choice for an economy car.

    I would say that a rental car is usually culled from the fleet at one year old and about 28k miles (unless it is owned by one of the small town franchises that may hold a car until 3 years and 50k miles).
  • bowke28bowke28 Member Posts: 2,185
    would be a healthy deal for the seller, and the taurus would be close to wholesale at the $5k figure. (OTD, of course)
  • zeroicezeroice Member Posts: 9
    I'm going to look at a white 2000 Chrysler Concorde LX with 100,000 miles from a private seller. It has all the standard LX options, nothing added. It's a company car and the miles are mostly highway. The owner says is was well taken care of. The ad has it listed for $4250. If everything looks good, what's the lowest offer I should make? I can pay cash if they go to the mid 3's.
  • bowke28bowke28 Member Posts: 2,185
    for a car they no longer make with 100k miles???

    no way.

    if you have to pay any more than $3000 for it, pass it up.
  • toyota_buyertoyota_buyer Member Posts: 12
    What would be a fair price for a 93 camry LE(41k miles) in good condition.? Edmunds and KBB are showing a price range of $3900 to $4300. However the private party that has the car for sale is quoting a price of $6000. Is $6000 a fair price for this car? It does loook like the online sites are not taking the mileage into account.

    Any advice regarding this purchase is much appreciated.

    Thanks!
  • steine13steine13 Member Posts: 2,825
    There is no book value for a nearly 12 year old car with any mileage, not even 41k. What's the history of this thing? All around-town driving? What's the maintenance history?

    Low miles is not always a good thing. I'd pay $3 or less for it, and that's only if it looks great, no rust anywhere, and if it checks out with a competent mechanic.

    Better yet, I'd try to scrape togeter a little over $5 and get myself into a whole 'nuther range -- see my profile for a writeup of how to drive cheaply.

    $6000? Ridiculous. Move on.

    -Mathias
  • jasmith52jasmith52 Member Posts: 462
    I agree with Steine13 - Move on !

    I have run accross many used car sellers that are in fantasy-land as to what they can get for their used car. If you talk to them and tell them what their car will likely sell for I always get the same reaction: That I am somehow trying to cheat them.

    Now that I am wiser, I have given up on telling someone else what their car will sell for. Just move on, the seller won't come down until their car sits unsold for a couple of months or longer. Then when they finally do sell their car they act like they did the buyer a huge favor.

    there are lots of good used cars to be bought at great prices. Just keep looking until a great deal comes accross.
  • stone1stone1 Member Posts: 5
    Hi, folks! I just spent 25 bucks on Carfax which gives me the lowdown on a car's history. If the vehicle had one owner, is not a lemon, had no major repairs, etc., do I still need a mechanic checking it out? Isn't a clean Carfax report good enough? 'Cause if it's not, why'd I spent $25 when that money could've been used to help pay for a mechanic's inspection??? :-/

    Also, madeuce36 posted a question about dealer fees (message 64)which was similar to mine. Specifically, besides sales tax and title fees, what other surprises should I expect in the closing paperwork? Do I have to pay for advertising fees & destination charges or is that just new cars?

    Thanks!
  • steine13steine13 Member Posts: 2,825
    Depends on you. IF you really know what you're doing, maybe you owned this type of car before and know the look/feel/sound/power delivery, you can get away without a mechanic's inspection.

    But I'd suggest one anyway. In '99, I think, I helped a Japanese post-doc buy a car. We picked out a '95 Prizm, but they wouldn't come down on price... so we went across the street and looked at a '95 Cavalier. Auto, good shape, 50k miles, <4 years on the road, $5,300 after a little negotiation and thorough test drive. I kinda know what I'm doing around cars, and it had checked out find for me. Still, we arranged for an inspection.

    After the test drive, the guys call and say: piston slap, needs engine, run don't walk. Price for the inspection: $16.67, cuz they never did anything except test drive and listen to the engine. I had them show me, and it was a faint tick at idle that you can hear IF you know what you're looking for.

    Dr. N. bought the Prizm instead. It checked out fine, and after two years, he sold it on the street for $1,500 less than he bought it for.

    Your money -- your call.
    -Mathias
  • driftracerdriftracer Member Posts: 2,448
    an extra $25? What's peace of mind worth?

    First, CARFAX is great, but it's NOT the be all, end all..unless a state or city police agency investigated an accident on the car, in most cases, it WON'T appear on CARFAX - folks here have shown salvage title vehicles that don't reflect that status on CARFAX.

    Secondly, CARFAX can't inspect your vehicle - if you don't know what to look for on the signs of wear, abuse, major mechanical issues, paint work, body work, etc....leave it to someone who does.

    Don't balk over spending less than $100 to make sure a potential vehicle for your family is checked out. If you DO balk, you don't have the right to complain later that the thing had transmission trouble, paint work, water damage, etc, when you could have easily had it checked out. I say better safe than sorry.
  • jlawrence01jlawrence01 Member Posts: 1,757
    I agree with Steine completely. Pay the $100 and have the car inspected by YOUR mechanic. Let the mechanic know that you are considering a purchase of the vehicle and ask him what he thinks. Most of my mechanic friends like to do this type of work and are very thorough - maybe to a fault. I generally get a laundry list of small problems that will not impact the purchase. However, the list gives me an idea of the things that I will need to fix in the first 10-20k miles of ownership.

    Too often, I have seen people buy a vehicle that have been in major accidents or that have serious problems and then are stuck with them because they don't have an additional $1500-2000 to replace the engine.

    Do realize that any nspection will not be perfect. My brother and I test drove a 1994 Mercury Topaz V-6 for FIVE hours and never noticed that it had a transmission problem. When I noticed the problem, I lent the car to my transmission repair guru who drove the car for two weeks and could not duplicate the problem either.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    The number of owners a car has had doesn't mean diddly sometimes. I've seen eight year old cars that have had three owners who cared for it and I've seen one owner cars that have never had an oil change.

    I think some people make too big of a deal over this.
  • stone1stone1 Member Posts: 5
    In light of all your comments, I'm definitely going to get a mechanic to inspect the car. 'Nuff said.
  • steine13steine13 Member Posts: 2,825
    The "one owner car" is a good thing when you're buying from that person. Simply because you get to talk to them and get a feel for how they might have treated the car.

    If I were buying used from a dealer, it wouldn't mean a heck of a lot to me, either.

    -Mathias
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Especially when you go to their home to look at the car. I dunno, but I just think someone who cares about their house is going to do the same with their cars.

    You also get the change to query them about how well they took care of it.
  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    The other day we had a car come in that had the odometer replaced(the ole red digit was the clue) and the consumer didn't confess until he was pressed.....turned out he drove the car around for a "week or two" with it broken....so nobody really knows what the true miles are. he may have driven the car around for a year!!!

    carfax says the car is clean.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Can be a real problem.

    A couple of years ago, we had a customer bring in a nice S-10 Blazer. On the way to our store, he heard a "pop" and noticed his odometer had jammed.

    I know he was telling the truth since he had the truck in three days before.

    Talk about bad luck!
  • lancerfixerlancerfixer Member Posts: 1,284
    On the subject of odometers...has your service department seen many speedo/odo malfunctions on '94-'95 Accords? Mine jammed a couple months ago; according to the speedomoter I'm going 19 mph all the time (the odometer is frozen in place, too,) and my parents' '95's odometer stopped and then started working again a while back. As both cars have over about 150-160,000 miles on them, the value won't be hurt much, but I've read others' postings with the same complaint. Is this a known issue with these cars? Just curious.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    And the answer was..." It happens but it's pretty rare".

    I know I've never seen one and I've seen LOTS of these.
  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    Does your store do much with certified honda's?
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    We do. We will certify most of the ones that qualify. If they are on the edge with miles or if they are a bit rough we won't. We just sell these for less moneyy to the people who don't care about certification.

    " I've owned five Hondas and I've never had one problem...why would I want a certified car?"

    Those people.
  • driftracerdriftracer Member Posts: 2,448
    like me trying to sell HondaCare warranties - folks would say "we just gave our 170,000 mile Accord to our youngest son, and my 89,000 mile Civic went to my daughter for college - we're buying a new Accord. We've never spent a dime on a repair, just normal maintenance - tell me again why I need that warranty?

    My Honda warranty penetration was 5-7% each month, when my average on non-Honda cars was over 40%....
  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    I was just wondering...here in the northeast the certified stuff does 'ok' at highline stores but it's not a big seller with the other more traditional car lines. The Toyota dealership next to our L/M store decided to certifiy most of their camry's and it was a disaster...they ended up over conditioning the cars and the market would not support the higher selling prices.

    funny how things are so different in other parts of the country.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    The "warranty freaks", it's a big deal.

    Others couldn't care less.
  • toyota_buyertoyota_buyer Member Posts: 12
    I was originally in the market for a second beater car and now my original car got wrecked. The insurance is paying me 15k for my Honda EX v6 2000 which got wrecked. I need to find a replacement and this time around I am planning to buy a used car. My budget is 20 to 22k. I live in Wisconsin, so something that would work well during winters would be great. Safety is also a big concern, something that would save me and my family in case of a wreck.

    Any suggestions? I am tempted to look at Lexus ES 300 and Lexus RX300. I saw a 1999 Lexus RX300 4x4 for $18,990 with 43,000 miles on it. I am also thinking of looking at Camry's.

    Again, I would appreciate any suggestions on what kind of a car would make sense for my situation.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,330
    look for a gently used Subaru. Actually, you can get a new '04 Legacy thses days in your price range (if you pick the right trim line).

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • toyota_buyertoyota_buyer Member Posts: 12
    Stickyguy,

    Thank you for the suggestion. I am currently driving a 2003 rental Subaru Outback and I am very impressed with it. However I am not too familiar with Subaru's and I have no friends that own that car. Are these reliable ? I was also very confused about their models and styles when I started researching these wagons. I almost felt that LEGACY and OUTBACK were being used interchangeably.

    Is Outabck better or Forrester better?

    Thanks for any information. I am also doing my own research but any helpful advice from experienced auto enthusiasts is much appreciated.

    Thanks
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,330
    Very reliable, an with AWD, great in the snow.

    The outback is really just a Legacy wagon that was made into a "quasi" SUV. Basically, they raised it up slightly, put on SUV type tires, and slapped on body cladding. FOr all practical purposes, it is the same as the Legacy, with slightly worse handling but better off-road capabilities.

    The whole Legacy line (inc. outback) was just redesigned for '05, and recently hit the showrooms. There is an active thread on the future vehicles board about them. SOund nice, but the left over '04s are a great value right now.

    The Forester is smaller (based on the Impreza platform) and is more of a "true" SUV. Boxier, not as roomy, and a little less car like, but very functional. People who have them seem to really like them.

    So, the Legacy competes with the Passat/Mazda 6/Accord/Camry set, and the Forester is in with the CR-V, RAV4, Escape set.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • stone1stone1 Member Posts: 5
    1. When I appraise a used car's retail value online I check kbb.com, nadaguides.com, and, of course, good ol' Edmunds. But I always get three different results. Sometimes the differences are even over a thousand dollars apart! Which of the three website values is more trustworthy if any?

    2. How long should you test drive a car that you're thinking of purchasing? What is the normal amount of time the average person spends test driving a car? The car salesman always tells me to drive it either up and down the street or around the block. I'm always okay with that because I feel that this amount of driving time, while short, is sufficient enough for me to get an overall feel for the car, especially since my planned commute is your basic stop-and-go traffic commute. Am I just being a naive idiot or is it reasonable to do that? My previous car was purchased with an around-the-block test drive. Also, if you're ignorant about cars like I am, how can driving the car longer help? I won't know what to listen for anyway? Am I right or wrong on this?
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,736
    1. most times, you can take the lowest quote you find on those internet guides and knock off another 10%, maybe even more, to find the real trade in value. or you can go to the smart shopper board and give the details on the "Real-World Trade-in Values" board and get a much more accurate response.

    2. well, i'm with you in that I can usually get a good enough feel in 10 minutes or less; HOWEVER, there are definitely things that you might not notice in such a short time if you aren't paying close attention. For instance, maybe the seat gets uncomfortable after 30 minutes. The trick is making sure you check out everything. Some people just need more time than others to do that.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • toyota_buyertoyota_buyer Member Posts: 12
    Stickyguy,

    Thank you for your suggestions.

    I just bought a 2004 Subaru Outback AUTO AWD. I got a terrific deal(I think) with all the rebates that are going on. Price was $19100 + taxes, title & registration.

    No extra options other than the AUTO transmission.

    Thanks
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,330
    hard to argue with that deal. Keep if for 5 years, and still get a nice price for it.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • stone1stone1 Member Posts: 5
    Thanks for your reply, gbrozen. Glad to know I'm not a freak concerning test-drives. But to re-address Issue #1, I actually don't have a car to trade-in. The "previous car" I mentioned in my post WAS STOLEN!! It was a Honda Accord and I lived in Jersey City, NJ at the time (a Mecca of car thieves and other riff-raff). On those internet guides, I look at the "Suggested Retail Value" to see if the dealership is offering a fair enough price on it. Then I get three completely different values. Should I still pick the lowest value? If their price is lower than all three figures (which is almost always the case), does that mean the price is pretty much non-negotiable?
Sign In or Register to comment.