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Car_man
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Smart Shoppers Message Board
Choosing the all-stars and then talking about "[...]the large depreciation hit that typically makes a 2- or 3-year-old car (with low miles) the best value" does not make a lot of sense from any point of view.
Also, if you put safety near the top of the criteria, why oh why are we even considering the F150? It did poorly -- and if you haven't seen the pictures, check it out online -- in the offset crash test... http://www.iihs.org.
Edmunds does two things really well: Collecting new car data and pricing information. Providing an open forum to talk about cars.
Leave the advice-giving to professional car people, not professional journalists.
Ever grateful for Edmunds wonderful services,
I remain,
-Mathias
My definition of a great used car is a car that meets my need, is fairly reliable with proper care and maintenance, and the acquisition cost is not an arm and a leg.
If you're a regular used car buyer, there are probably more exciting or less expensive choices (or both).
Here's a few I consider good car buys because of relative reliabilty and huge depreciation hit they've taken. Fell free to pick 'em apart.
Ford Taurus
Buick Century
Olds Intrigue
Mazda Protege
As we say down here, "whachy'allthink?"
Turboshadow
Personally, just bought a '02 Taurus SE with 50k miles for $5500. That is a lot of car for that kind of money.
Could get a '03 Century with 30k miles for about $10k.
The car that I really like used are some of the newer Impalas. My wife has been getting close to 30 mpg on her '04.
Terry :-)
midsize car - 1 year old taurus SE ~$11k
compact car - 1 year old nissan sentra GXE ~$9k
minivan - 1 year old windstar SE ~$14k
small SUV - 2 year old escape XLS ~$14k
mid SUV - 2 year old explarer XLS ~$17k
small pickup - 2 year old nissan king cab XE ~$11k
large pickup - 2 year old f150 XLT supercab ~$18k
these are retail #s, of course.
Small/econo car: Chevy Prizm
Mid size car: Buick Century
Compact Pick-up: Ford Ranger
Midsize SUV: Ford Explorer XLT
Haven't research enough on other categories to make an informed decision.
Leo
I assume for you that price is the winning factor for value? Or do we also include cost of ownership and repairs?
if we are talking in the $5k-$7k range, then make and model matter a little more, i think.
For example, in small economy cars, I'd pick the Prizm first, then Ford Escort 2nd. While the protege should probably be the number #2 spot, there's the problem of availability, at least around my area. Whereas, it isn't too hard to find a good used Prizm or Escort. Add in that both of these cars are cheaper than similar used protege and I come up with the PRizm and Escort being a better value. Plus all three are fairly reliable.
In my midsize SUV, it was a compromise. Toyota 4Runners and Nissan Pathfinders while both very reliable are very expensive on the used market thus not a good value. So I had to drop down to the domestics. Out of those, I felt the Explorer was a better bet in the reliability department. Afterall Ford has built what? 2 million of these things and it's not uncommon to hear of them reaching 150k+ miles. They're readily available, and can be had at good prices.
At least that's how I try to approach buying used vehicles.
Regards,
Leo
Dealer Fees. What sort of fees(besides tax tag and title) should I expect to have to pay and what is a resonable amount expect on these? I walked on a deal a week ago because I felt like I was being soaked. I want to pay a fair price. I understand that the dealer has to make a profit but I don't want to send his kids to college in one sale!
Also, here (Twin Cities) 2-3-4 year old used Proteges are a lot more plentiful compared to used Escorts.
Wasn't aware that in 2001(?) Escort was fleet cars. I was looking at '98 and '99 s. They were (along with Prizm) were easy to find used. I didn't even have to look very hard. The proteges were much scarcer, plus a litte more $$$. But I'm from around Pittsburgh area--30 miles northwest. I've seem to notice that people around here hold onto their Toyotas, Hondas, Mazdas, and Suburas. A few years ago I even seen 10 yr old Honda Civic del Sol w/ 90K going for $10K at a Honda dealer. Ouch and Wow! But you're right,I wouldn't consider a fleet rental car. They're usually 2yr old cars with 4yr old mileage. They don't seem discounted enough, at least to me.
Yep, that's what we were looking for. Happen to find a '99 Prizm w/ 60k for under $5K OTD. It took only two weeks to get from the time we started looking. Should be a good daily driver and commuter car.
Regards,
Leo
I would agree that the Escort would be a good choice for an economy car.
I would say that a rental car is usually culled from the fleet at one year old and about 28k miles (unless it is owned by one of the small town franchises that may hold a car until 3 years and 50k miles).
no way.
if you have to pay any more than $3000 for it, pass it up.
Any advice regarding this purchase is much appreciated.
Thanks!
Low miles is not always a good thing. I'd pay $3 or less for it, and that's only if it looks great, no rust anywhere, and if it checks out with a competent mechanic.
Better yet, I'd try to scrape togeter a little over $5 and get myself into a whole 'nuther range -- see my profile for a writeup of how to drive cheaply.
$6000? Ridiculous. Move on.
-Mathias
I have run accross many used car sellers that are in fantasy-land as to what they can get for their used car. If you talk to them and tell them what their car will likely sell for I always get the same reaction: That I am somehow trying to cheat them.
Now that I am wiser, I have given up on telling someone else what their car will sell for. Just move on, the seller won't come down until their car sits unsold for a couple of months or longer. Then when they finally do sell their car they act like they did the buyer a huge favor.
there are lots of good used cars to be bought at great prices. Just keep looking until a great deal comes accross.
Also, madeuce36 posted a question about dealer fees (message 64)which was similar to mine. Specifically, besides sales tax and title fees, what other surprises should I expect in the closing paperwork? Do I have to pay for advertising fees & destination charges or is that just new cars?
Thanks!
But I'd suggest one anyway. In '99, I think, I helped a Japanese post-doc buy a car. We picked out a '95 Prizm, but they wouldn't come down on price... so we went across the street and looked at a '95 Cavalier. Auto, good shape, 50k miles, <4 years on the road, $5,300 after a little negotiation and thorough test drive. I kinda know what I'm doing around cars, and it had checked out find for me. Still, we arranged for an inspection.
After the test drive, the guys call and say: piston slap, needs engine, run don't walk. Price for the inspection: $16.67, cuz they never did anything except test drive and listen to the engine. I had them show me, and it was a faint tick at idle that you can hear IF you know what you're looking for.
Dr. N. bought the Prizm instead. It checked out fine, and after two years, he sold it on the street for $1,500 less than he bought it for.
Your money -- your call.
-Mathias
First, CARFAX is great, but it's NOT the be all, end all..unless a state or city police agency investigated an accident on the car, in most cases, it WON'T appear on CARFAX - folks here have shown salvage title vehicles that don't reflect that status on CARFAX.
Secondly, CARFAX can't inspect your vehicle - if you don't know what to look for on the signs of wear, abuse, major mechanical issues, paint work, body work, etc....leave it to someone who does.
Don't balk over spending less than $100 to make sure a potential vehicle for your family is checked out. If you DO balk, you don't have the right to complain later that the thing had transmission trouble, paint work, water damage, etc, when you could have easily had it checked out. I say better safe than sorry.
Too often, I have seen people buy a vehicle that have been in major accidents or that have serious problems and then are stuck with them because they don't have an additional $1500-2000 to replace the engine.
Do realize that any nspection will not be perfect. My brother and I test drove a 1994 Mercury Topaz V-6 for FIVE hours and never noticed that it had a transmission problem. When I noticed the problem, I lent the car to my transmission repair guru who drove the car for two weeks and could not duplicate the problem either.
I think some people make too big of a deal over this.
If I were buying used from a dealer, it wouldn't mean a heck of a lot to me, either.
-Mathias
You also get the change to query them about how well they took care of it.
carfax says the car is clean.
A couple of years ago, we had a customer bring in a nice S-10 Blazer. On the way to our store, he heard a "pop" and noticed his odometer had jammed.
I know he was telling the truth since he had the truck in three days before.
Talk about bad luck!
I know I've never seen one and I've seen LOTS of these.
" I've owned five Hondas and I've never had one problem...why would I want a certified car?"
Those people.
My Honda warranty penetration was 5-7% each month, when my average on non-Honda cars was over 40%....
funny how things are so different in other parts of the country.
Others couldn't care less.
Any suggestions? I am tempted to look at Lexus ES 300 and Lexus RX300. I saw a 1999 Lexus RX300 4x4 for $18,990 with 43,000 miles on it. I am also thinking of looking at Camry's.
Again, I would appreciate any suggestions on what kind of a car would make sense for my situation.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Thank you for the suggestion. I am currently driving a 2003 rental Subaru Outback and I am very impressed with it. However I am not too familiar with Subaru's and I have no friends that own that car. Are these reliable ? I was also very confused about their models and styles when I started researching these wagons. I almost felt that LEGACY and OUTBACK were being used interchangeably.
Is Outabck better or Forrester better?
Thanks for any information. I am also doing my own research but any helpful advice from experienced auto enthusiasts is much appreciated.
Thanks
The outback is really just a Legacy wagon that was made into a "quasi" SUV. Basically, they raised it up slightly, put on SUV type tires, and slapped on body cladding. FOr all practical purposes, it is the same as the Legacy, with slightly worse handling but better off-road capabilities.
The whole Legacy line (inc. outback) was just redesigned for '05, and recently hit the showrooms. There is an active thread on the future vehicles board about them. SOund nice, but the left over '04s are a great value right now.
The Forester is smaller (based on the Impreza platform) and is more of a "true" SUV. Boxier, not as roomy, and a little less car like, but very functional. People who have them seem to really like them.
So, the Legacy competes with the Passat/Mazda 6/Accord/Camry set, and the Forester is in with the CR-V, RAV4, Escape set.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
2. How long should you test drive a car that you're thinking of purchasing? What is the normal amount of time the average person spends test driving a car? The car salesman always tells me to drive it either up and down the street or around the block. I'm always okay with that because I feel that this amount of driving time, while short, is sufficient enough for me to get an overall feel for the car, especially since my planned commute is your basic stop-and-go traffic commute. Am I just being a naive idiot or is it reasonable to do that? My previous car was purchased with an around-the-block test drive. Also, if you're ignorant about cars like I am, how can driving the car longer help? I won't know what to listen for anyway? Am I right or wrong on this?
2. well, i'm with you in that I can usually get a good enough feel in 10 minutes or less; HOWEVER, there are definitely things that you might not notice in such a short time if you aren't paying close attention. For instance, maybe the seat gets uncomfortable after 30 minutes. The trick is making sure you check out everything. Some people just need more time than others to do that.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Thank you for your suggestions.
I just bought a 2004 Subaru Outback AUTO AWD. I got a terrific deal(I think) with all the rebates that are going on. Price was $19100 + taxes, title & registration.
No extra options other than the AUTO transmission.
Thanks
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.