Saab 9-7X

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Comments

  • regfootballregfootball Member Posts: 2,166
    my point is related to interiors from the standpoint that you could rebadge an evo as an Audi, but like the WRX/9-2 situation, it is clear that the interior design is NOT something the owner of a eurolux car is after. either in quality or design theme. An EVO interior cannot pass for an Audi just like a Subaru interior is not a Saab.
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    exactly. So, everybody that has seen a Subaru interior and is looking at the 9-2X will know right away that it is a Subaru interior.
  • buddhabmanbuddhabman Member Posts: 252
    No arguements on design, a Subaru is not a Saab, just saying this is the best they could do in such a short time. But also don't diminish the utilitarian / functional quality similarities between the two companies.

    They want to pull younger buyers in the door. The Saaburu was the best vehicle platform to do this. We will have to see how much brand dilution and canabalism occurs. But they need AWD now. It takes more than 2 years to design and build a nice AWD car. The next iteration of this won't be until 2006/07. I am just amazed they hadn't done AWD sooner as they have very good systems in their mountain climb rally cars. Check out last years Pikes Peak standings and video.
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    the next 9-2X will be more Saabish.
  • theo2709theo2709 Member Posts: 476
    More info from Autoweek.

    Key points:

    "The Saab 9-7X will be offered with GM's 4.2-liter inline six-cylinder engine and 5.3-liter V-8"

    "The SUV will have different exterior design, interior trim and chassis refinements than the TrailBlazer."

    "It will have very different handling, with excellent braking and performance."

    "Sales likely would be between 5,000 and 15,000 units annually. "It is too early to divulge volume, but it would be nothing near 25 percent of our sales," he said."
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    So Saab is positioning the 9-7X as a niche model?
  • theo2709theo2709 Member Posts: 476
    That volume seems a little off. The SL only sells that much annually.
  • bretaabretaa Member Posts: 130
    To JMing:
    I completely agree about Saab needing to get into step with buyer preferences. You can't freeze your brand with the characteristics of one beloved model (the early 90's and 900's) forever.

    There's enough blame to go around. Saab Europe's strategy has been flawed product wise, GM mistakenly thought Saab could instantly complete on level with BMW/Mercedes, and GM didn't give them the resources to fight.

    While I again agree Saab needs to adapt to the market, I have a big problem with GM using one flawed strategy (adapting the Trailblazer platform and WRX to Saab) to try to fix all of the above faults.

    At least these products will exclusive to the US (until they are redone) so the Saab brand will killed only in one country. The coming dilution of the Saab brand in the U.S. was one reason I actually didn't get a 9-3 recently.

    Bret
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    are stop gap models meant to bring back buyers they lost (9-7X) or bring in newer, younger buyers. (9-2X)
  • regfootballregfootball Member Posts: 2,166
    and in the process of having stopgaps......the brand gets watered down so it has no equity.

    'brand' supercedes everything in this day and age. if something doesn't juve with the 'brand', folks see it easily and begin to think the brand is crap.

    it would seem to me to make sense to wait 18 months and arrive with stellar products rather than water down the brand. that said, the WRX as a stopgap is a great idea....just take 6 more months to do it and give it a real interior. something not so asian budget car looking.
  • bretaabretaa Member Posts: 130
    has got it 100% right. In this brutal, competitive luxury market filled with top notch products, stopgaps usually only succeed at watering down your brand. Honda got away with using second class Isuzu SUV's for a while because they have such tremendous brand equity.

    Saab, frankly, doesn't have much in the U.S. except among their fanatic core, and this is just the group the 9-2X and 9-7X is going to put off. I agree they would have been better served to wait 1-3 years for full fledged replacements and really wow the market. Again, I *didn't buy* a new 9-3, in a large part because I'm afraid of what this brand will become and what it will do to the equity of the car I would later sell.

    Bret
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    that the stopgaps will be ignored, as many luxury car buyers ignore the Saab brand anyways.
  • rctennis3811rctennis3811 Member Posts: 1,031
    This "new" SUV doesn't really appeal to me. Saab interiors are usually cheap and boring, even though they try to be luxurious. Most people would rather buy an X5, XC90, MDX, SRX (is it just me, or are all luxury SUVs going to have the letter X?). Anyways, it won't be until the real 9-7X that people will really consider Saab.
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    I actually kinda like the 9-3 interior- it isn't cheap at all.
  • bretaabretaa Member Posts: 130
    I just recently cross-shopped near luxury sports sedans and while the 9-3 interior is nicely designed and the roomiest in class, the material quality isn't quite yet up to 3-series, A4, or Lexus levels yet. Maybe the next version, but not today.

    Bret
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    it is better than say, the Pontiac Bonneville.
  • regfootballregfootball Member Posts: 2,166
    better than cadillac.
  • theo2709theo2709 Member Posts: 476
    Sad but true.
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    than the Hummer H2? Maybe?
  • buddhabmanbuddhabman Member Posts: 252
    Saab equity has never been that great. That worried me about the car when we bought ours. But the uniqueness, the driving experience, the features, the styling, the safety is what sold us.

    "The 9-3 Interior" - Outside of the Audi which is a step above the rest, IMHO I just don't see the other Euro brands being a step above. Compare the 9-3 to the Lexus IS300 or Infiniti G35 or MB C-Class, Volvo S60 or 3 Series. The dash materials, headliner, switches, gauges, seats stack up equally on whole. I am going to sit in each of these again at the upcoming LA Auto show and re-evaluate.

    Stopgaps are by nature a catch-up strategy. The alternative is usually worse though. The whole near luxury sedan/wagon segment has AWD, you can't be in market without it. AWD is needed now not 18 months from now. Look what Infiniti is doing with the G35. The 9-2X is a precursor to people accepting the 9-3X AWD. Although they will be different systems, the general perception by the vast buying audience is that Saab has had some success with AWD and thus the 9-3X / 9-7X will be viewed as a viable choice.

    I agree in sentiment that it would have been nicer to hold out and build a true Saab, but that is not the practical case here. You take from the resources you can get, and make the best of it. The 9-2X will represent nicely until the 9-3X comes. The 9-7X is an open ? but if executed properly it will be a blessing.
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    there will be a redesign for it- it'll be a complement to the 9-3X currently under development.
  • bretaabretaa Member Posts: 130
    In the New York Times "year in review," here's what they had to say on the 9-3:

    "SAAB 9-3: Those who fear for Saab's future as part of G.M. have reason to fret. There will soon be Saab-arus and thinly disguised GMC S.U.V.'s in the lineup. The nice-driving 9-3 sedan preserves a bit of Saab appeal, but I spent my time in the car wondering where they got the flimsy, fragile plastic controls."
  • theo2709theo2709 Member Posts: 476
    I only agree with the last statement. The HVAC controls on all levels of the 9-3 are cheap and flimsy. They flex when you push on them, and it looks like they are held in there with Elmers glue.

    The 9-7x will not be a "thinly-disguised GMC" as was discussed earlier. It has been tweaked and re-engineered for better performance, braking, and handling. The interior will be better too.

    About the 9-2x, even Edmunds is praising it. The WRX is a very good car to clone, and it will have good performance for a good price. It will be enough to keep Saab afloat until their new cars come out later in the decade.
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    is a great car to clone and rebadge. Performance and utility come together in a tastefully designed package at an affordable price.
  • buddhabmanbuddhabman Member Posts: 252
    Hehe! : - ) Job security you say!

    But seriously, I was talking with a tech, in his newly remodled SAAB showroom and service bay. He sounded pretty excited about the future of Saab.
    I think there is a good feeling that this SUV will be big.

    IMHO - Saab showrooms are the nicest from what I have seen in the last year, at least here in Southern California.
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    from what I've seen, have always been very nice and modern.
  • dlflyboydlflyboy Member Posts: 24
    When I went to the Aero academy in Atlanta last Dec I spoke to one of the engineers from Saab and he stated that they were using the same platform (but work up from there) as the Envoy and Bravada for the 9-7x so they could go ahead and have an SUV in the market. But, he also stated that Saab is working on a NEW SUV in conjunction with the 9-7x and that IS Saab. But, it won't be out for around another 2 years. I owned a 2002 Bravada and traded it at 28k miles (no problems!!). I would buy the 9-7x as long as it was "Saabish" and was distinguished from the others on the same platform. But, since I know they have another SUV (pure Saab) coming out later, I might wait a bit longer. But, I love my 2003 9-5 Aero. :)
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    will probably be the 9-3X.
  • theo2709theo2709 Member Posts: 476
    I think that's the 9-3 hatchback. That's about 2 years away.
  • buddhabmanbuddhabman Member Posts: 252
    How was the academy. I have a 2003 Aero Wagon, but I haven't had the time to make it to Atlanta for the course. Did you get to go all out on a track, or was it a short handling course and g-pad circle? Did you ask about the 9-5 with AWD?.
  • buddhabmanbuddhabman Member Posts: 252
    A year form now we will be in the market for a larger car. Maybe a minivan but more likely a SUV. Very interested in the Cadillac SRX, SAAB
    9-7X or the possible Subaru 7 seater.
  • rctennis3811rctennis3811 Member Posts: 1,031
    Nice choices! Here's what I think:

    Cadillac SRX: Great SUV for the money. Interior feels and looks good in MOST places. Not really fond of the low-placed tv screen (my kids didn't like looking down for the tv at the auto show), powerful engines, V8 is too pricey..go with V6

    SAAB 9-7X: Sure GM is making a lot of changes to the Envoy XL to make the 9-7X..but it still isn't changing my mind. Lack of side-curtains, a MARGINAL crash test rating, and all those problems with the GM midsizers (go to the TB/Envoy/Rainier/etc. board and TONS of posts on problems are there) do not convince me the SAAB will be any different.

    upcoming Subaru 7-seater: Now I would definitely consider this. Subaru has great engines and their reliability and quality is great too. If they did what they did to the Forester and upcoming Legacy/Outbacks' interiors than you know the Subaru SUV will be great! Plus, it's not a BORROWED platform from GM. Subaru usually gets a GOOD rating from the IIHS.

    So, for me it would come down to the SRX or Subaru. Have you checked any other 7-seater SUVs yet? Some other good choices would be the Pilot, MDX, Highlander, XC90, and Rendezvous (ACCEPTABLE crash test rating).
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    I'd also add the RX330 if you can afford it.
  • rctennis3811rctennis3811 Member Posts: 1,031
    Oh yea! I forgot to add that! Good job jchan2. Maybe even a RX400h...
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    I've heard the next one will go global in the sense that it will be sold around the world. Does that mean the next generation 9-7X will be smaller, since the current one won't be sold anywhere but the US?
  • rctennis3811rctennis3811 Member Posts: 1,031
    Well, the upcoming 9-7X is just a stopgag model, so no one knows if the next one will be bigger or smaller.
  • buddhabmanbuddhabman Member Posts: 252
    rc - I wonder also about the reliability with that platform. I am not sure if it is bad enginering as much as it is bad assembly. Saab has a great reputation for safety so I think they will make sure they engineer in all the safety bags.

    I like the SRX, which is my favorite at the momment. The V8 is nice but pricey. An opted out (No 3rd Row) V6 will have to suffice. I am intrigued by the RX400H, but as nice as they are I just don't like the driving feel of Lexus cars.

    The Subaru might change everything. Waiting to see what it looks like.
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    what about the Acura MDX? Reliable, Safe, relatively inexpensive (compared to the SRX)
  • rctennis3811rctennis3811 Member Posts: 1,031
    Yes, SAAB (as well as Volvo...those Swedish!!) has a great need for safety. Sadly, I noticed that GM never mentioned that as a change on the 9-7X compared to its siblings. In every article about the 9-7X I have ever read, GM mentions that they changed the body panelings, interior, and suspension to meet with SAAB standards. I never read anywhere that they added any structural stiffenings or more airbags, which it desperately needs since it only got a MARGINAL rating in the IIHS test. I honestly don't think SAAB has much say in how they wanted the 9-7X to come out. If they did, they would've put a turbocharged engine in it.

    Also, I agree with jchan2, the Acura MDX is a great SUV for the money. It's very safe with a great amount of HP (265 is pretty good for a V6) and it's very versatile. If you want to spend more, the SRX and XC90 are also great, safe choices. Good luck on your decision!
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    I hope that more safety stuff is added to the 9-7X.
  • buddhabmanbuddhabman Member Posts: 252
    This is reportedly from the Financial Times via The Car Connection website. - 'Meanwhile, the FT also says Saab is studying a new lineup-topping model called the 9-6 to be derived from the new GM rear-/all-wheel-drive architecture. That vehicle would be shared with Opel in Europe and would be based on a design from GM's Aussie Holden brand. Saab is introducing the 9-2X, spun from the Subaru WRX, and the 9-7X, derived from the Chevy TrailBlazer platform, this year.'
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    not bad. It could go after the S-Class and 7-Series, only with a lower price. The 9-5 could be redesigned to go after the E-Class and 5-Series, while the 9-3 will battle the C-Class and 3-Series, and the 9-2X will battle the 1-Series and possibly the A-Class.
  • bigdaddycoatsbigdaddycoats Member Posts: 1,058
    I guess there are some pics floating around out there - anyone know where they are???
  • rctennis3811rctennis3811 Member Posts: 1,031
    Doesn't GM have the 9-7X pics embargoed until a certain date? I know GMI always has the first pics of any new GM model out, but so far they only have the STS and Velite pictures...
  • theo2709theo2709 Member Posts: 476
    I have seen the first three, they looked like I expected them too. Put the 9-2X face on the Rainier, voila.
  • rctennis3811rctennis3811 Member Posts: 1,031
    Does it look lower like they said, and did they successfully *DIFFERENTIATE* it from its siblings?
  • joey2brixjoey2brix Member Posts: 463
    Is an upgrade to the 9-5 series which is dated.
    Move more into sport wagons and crossover SUV's.
    The 9-3 5 door is a great move as is the 9-2X.
    Volvo's XC90 looks like it transformed out of a Volvo wagon. I do not think GM will pull off as good a job with the 9-7.
  • theo2709theo2709 Member Posts: 476
    The front looks different, but the profile is the same. I have yet to see the back, but I hope it isn't the same as the other 20,000 GMT-360s. The big wheels and lower stance do help, though. The 20"ers are sweet.
  • rctennis3811rctennis3811 Member Posts: 1,031
    Do you have any pictures that you could e-mail to me? If not, I understand. ;)
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