Honda Ridgeline SUT

got1b

What do you think of this vehicle? Does anyone know any more about it or of any other good links? The attached article mentions a "fully integrated cab and bed". Does that me it will be similar to an Avalanche? If so, and with towing of atleast 5,000 this would be some vehicle. Here's the link to the best article I can find on it:
http://www.babez.de/honda/sut.php

joey2brix

I remember seeing a photo in a car rag of a chopped pilot converted to a pickup (photoshop maybe?) a few months ago. This truck looks larger then that. With 5K lb towing, there's gotta be a BIG V6 in there.

sjwsmw

I called the salesman that sold me my Pilot and he had a little info. Says that it is Pilot-based, will be built alongside the Pilot. Is an '05 model to be delivered around the first of '05. He said it would resemble what Subaru did to the Baja. The length is expected to be a bit longer than the Pilot, using the Odyssey platform, possibly stretched. Most importantly, would it be just a Pilot with a bed or more like an Avalanche and that question was unanswered at this point.
Knowing Honda, I would expect it to be equally as handy-dandy as the Avalanche. But that remains to be seen at this point.

got1b

What is the Honda Pilot's towing capability? How do you like your pilot? I've never been in one.

tomcat630

People are going to think that this will be an F-150 replacement. No way!

got1b

I don't think anyone thinks that. However, I think it will hurt SportTrac sales. That model is baased on a platform atleast five years old. I think this vehicle will have the same capabilities and a much more refined package. Not to mention Honda reliability. If it has Avalanche like capabilties, I don't know why any one would by a SportTrac.

got1b

Check this out: http://www.hondacars.com/info/prototypes/sut.asp?bhcp=1

From this, it appears it does have an Avalanche like capability! This looks like the vehicle I've been waiting for.

jchan2

Honda quality, reliability, durability, Avalanche flexibility, SporTrac prices. Here's a hit!

jjman

where do you guys see that it has avalanche abilities?

got1b

The description hints at it and the picture seems to show it, although I admit not clearly. To me it appears the seats are folded down. I requested the brochure and hope it will clarify it.

got1b

Pickuptruck.com did a good write up on it. In it they say the towing capacity will be 4-5,000 lbs. I hope its 5. They also have a picture of the back end. When I compare it with the Honda web site, it really appears to have an Avalanche pass through.

I really like this truck. I think the looks are right on. It reminds me of a mini Escalade. All this with Honda reliability will be a 10 year dream come true!

Here is the review:http://www.pickuptruck.com/html/autoshows/naias2004/honda/- sut_intro.html

logic1

Certainly not Avalanche towing, hauling, or rough terrain driving capabilities.

The SUT looks like a truck, but is actually a mini-van. The Avalanche is a gosh honest truck.

tomcat630

One thing to consider, the Ford Escape outsells the Honda CRV handily. So they aren't winning over all the market segments.

Only people who never have owned a domestic pick-up, and drive an Accord/etc, will run to the SUT thinking "Wow, a Honda pickup, now I can get one!I didn't want to have to get an icky domestic one!" Of course they have no clue that owners of domestic pick-ups are mostly satisfied customers, not aching to get a Honda "cute ute" truck.

I'd like to see someone try to pull a huge boat with the SUT and wonder "why can't it? I THOUGHT this was a truck?"

got1b

I think of the Avalanche as full-size. This is certainly not that. As for towing a big boat, I'm not sure I'd do it with a Ford Ranger or the Chevy Colorado, vehicles approximately the same size as this.

rsholland

and as a long-time owner of many Hondas, I have to say I was disappointed.

I don't think it has a pass-through. The styling was not to my tastes. I didn't see, or hear of any breakthrough innovations, which you would expect from Honda. So it has IRS in a mid-size play truck; big deal...

I see it as a competitor to the Explorer Sport Trac, which is nothing more than a play truck. I was hoping this Honda pickup would offer capabilities that would attract the weekend warriors out there, such as the ability to haul 4x8 paneling, lumber, etc. I don't see it here.

Bob

anythngbutgm

You may be surprised with Honda. The Ody, Pilot and MDX have the capability to carry 4 X 8 sheets, it would be silly not to engineer the same in the SUT. Maybe the midgate idea is not out of the question. I believe there's a lot more effort being put into the SUT than to just chopping off the cap of a Pilot and calling it a day.

rsholland

and it didn't have a mid-gate, as far as I could tell. I've also seen may images on the Internet of the Honda SUT and not one has shown a mid-gate, nor has there been any mention of one.

Bob

anythngbutgm

Was it the actual vehicle? I thought it was still conceptual. Anyways, not questioning your judgment, just hopeful they put out a commendable first crack at the truck market. Looking forward to seeing it at New York in April.

got1b

I think its the Detroit free press that has a lot of pictures of the SUT. From them it appears to not have a mid-gate. If they did, I think it would be a major selling port.

rsholland

If it had a mid-gate, I'm sure Honda would be promoting it. Also, not a whole lot has been mentioned in terms of specs, or I just haven't seen them.

Recent Honda/Acura concepts have been pretty close to what the production versions are like. Assuming this holds true here, I'm not sure I'm going to like the one that actually hits the showrooms.

Bob

rsholland

You want pics!?!?

http://www.wieck.com/public/*wieck_search?ws4d_nav=true&opera- tor=and&source=wik&source=wka&source=wkt&Page=1&a- mp;operator=and&search_criteria=SUT&operator=and&sear- ch_criteria=&keyword=&Sort=import_date&submit_button=- Search&URL=index.html

Bob

rsholland

little discussion on this vehicle here at Edmunds. You would think Honda entering the pickup market would create a lot of buzz. Not so...

Bob

Kirstie_H

I'm guessing part of the ambivalence stems from the fact that it's in "concept" phase right now, though the final product isn't expected to vary much.

It doesn't sound like it's going to be very rugged, which to me, takes down the "sport utility" feature by a couple of notches.

joey2brix

While the Pilot caught the tail end of the big SUV craze, aren't there enough 4 door king cab pickups out there already? I thought I heard pickup sales were dropping. The interior is still very much a concept and will be very different in production. Unless Honda offers the SUT with high value for a low price, I don't think it will be a hot seller.

robr2

I see the SUT as an effort to retain existing Honda customers much like the current Odyssey and Pilot.

IMHO, Honda realizes that it loses a customer - perhaps for life - if it doesn't offer what they want. I really feel that Honda knows it's current customer base isn't looking for a heavy duty truck aka an F150 alternative, so the SUT will do well for them.

joey2brix

Just like the Explorer Sport Trac, the short bed is more limiting then the regular SUV which can put the rear bench down flat so you can put the full 4x8 sheet in the Pilot. Maybe you can get 2 or 3 dirt bikes in a short bed but a snow mobile won't make it. Now an XUV-like Pilot would have been interesting.

once_for_all

you are right about the bed being short, but any bed is better than a wagon/SUV area for certain items. My needs are as a farmer, I will have old batteries, diesel, gasoline, stinky dogs, etc. that simply cannot go in a cab. On the other hand, all of the beds can be fit with hardtops, which gives the security, privacy, and rain protection of a wagon.

John

tomcat630

There are people, who don't know about cars, who actaully think the new Honda SUT will be a "real truck". Someone quoted in a recent story said "I've been waiting for a Honda truck, I didn't want to get a domestic one."

theo2709

Tell me about it. There's this salesman at my local Honda dealer who said to me, "I am very excited about the SUT. My father has always driven a Chevy pickup but now he can finally buy a Honda!"

fsmmcsi

Regular pickups all have solid rear axles and ride roughly, with jaring jolts over many surfaces (yes I know about the Subaru, but its bed is so small that you can not call it a truck). However, the photos of the Honda car/truck and the dimensions of the MDX and Pilot on which it will be based suggest that the Honda pickup (or car-truck) will have a much larger bed than the Ford Explorer Sporttrac. The best thing is that the Honda will have the Pilot / MDX independent rear suspension, so it should ride soothly and quietly. I also have tools and supplies to carry which rattle annoyingly and which could slide or fly around during a panic stop or accident, so a wagon / SUV/ minivan / crossover is not for me. A four door car-truck would be ideal - not too big, but with a completely separate cargo compartment.

It should weigh less than the Pilot or MDX, so performance should be good.

fsmmcsi

I found these on an excellent web site today - showing both the interior and exterior of the concept. I expect (and sure hope) that Honda tones it way down to something which looks nice for the production version.

http://www.autointell.net/Events/naias-2004/naias-2004-daily/hond- a-sut/naias-2004-highlights-honda-sut.htm

fsmmcsi

The February 11, 2004 Detroit News Auto Insider section has a sneek peek at the REAL Honda pickup / car truck. I am happy to see that it will apparently not have the goony look of the show vehicle. The hood and fender have a normal relationship, and the headlights appear to be normal. I hope they use the Pilot interior without changes.

6thbeatle

i don't see any sneak peeks of the HUT for Feb 11 at the Insider. Where exactly on the site did you see it?

fsmmcsi

If you go to the detroit news, then auto insider, then sneek peek, it will display a list. Here is the direct link

http://info.detnews.com/autosinsider/sneakpeek/index.cfm?id=13703

qbrozen

I don't know where some folks (anythngbutgm and joey2brix) here get the idea that the Pilot can fit a 4x8 sheet of plywood. Trust me, it can't. I just moved a sofa 2 weeks ago that is 87 inches long (7.25 feet) and had to push the front passenger seat all the way forward (luckily the couch was narrow enough that it could fit next to the driver's seat) to accomplish this. It will take a 4x6 sheet maximum (or a 4x8 cut down to 4x6.5 maybe).

atlgaxt

I realize that the SUT is not a "real" truck, but I think it can hit a bulls eye in the personal use truck market.

For most folks, towing is a boat (bass/power/pontoon), ATVs, personal watercraft, pop up campers, utility trailers or the occasional U-Haul. The SUT can handle it.

Personal use for a pick-up typically is related to yardwork, and putting dirty stuff in the back that you would not want to put in a SUV. Ever tried to clean pine straw out of an SUV? The SUT can handle that.

For these types of chores, a smaller, more efficient and smoother driving vehicle is just the ticket for lots of folks.

But. And it is a big one. Why no midgate? While I know this is not a work truck, the small size of the bed might push potential buyers away, forcing them to buy bigger trucks that they do not really need. Honda, I hope it is not too late. I'm sure you will sell plenty of these, but if you put a midgate on it, it will be a smash hit.

derbs

How many people own a "huge boat" that don't already have a huge truck to pull it with. Not many. Yet how many people own a huge truck and don't own a "huge boat" or any reason to own such a powerful hauling machine. My neighbor drives a dodge ram 1500 crew cab 4x4 to work and back everyday. He works behind a desk all day. He has no rv type trailer or other rec vehs.
I on the other hand use my truck often- I have a 96 chevy s-10 ext cab 2.2 2 wheel drive and a 91 honda crx si. I would like to replace the s-10 because I want a vehicle that would haul 4 to 5 people and also have an open box so i can take my toys with me. ( I have a dirt bike, a quad, a seadoo, a jetski, and a sport bike ) I would also like it to have a awd system or real time 4wd system so driving in the snow or sand would be possible ( I have no plans going off roading like what a tacoma double cab 4x4 could handle- because I would prefer a nicer ride on the weekdays to/from work or for just daily driving in general. So do I really need a body on frame truck to handle my needs- no- the unibody will handle the basic home depot runs and hold my Suzuki rm125 with no problem. If I needed a "real truck" I would buy a silverado or for you ford fans an f150.

setzer

it's not the best truck around, but it's a start.

got1b

While waiting for an oil change yesterday, I askeed a salesman what the latest information was. He said he didn't have much, here is what I got:

Bad News: Rumored not to come out until next spring

Good News: The engine is supposed to have more HP than the Pilot, more along the lines of the MDX and have superior towing than the Pilot (my guess 5,500). The sales brochure mentioned an advanced 4WD drive system. He wasn't sure what that meant, I'd be interested in finding out.

I think Honda may have nailed it. From the looks of it it will compete favorly with all the new vehicles coming out in this segment, except for true off road capabilites. Which I question how many people spending 30,000 on a vehicle are really going to do. It will more than make up for it on road. I think a more SUV oriented vehicle is what the market needs. The Sport Trac is the only one thus far, and its base design is about 10 years old (old Ranger/Explorer platform) and its reliability will be nowhere near Honda's.

As for the truck crew cabs (New Toyota and Nissan in particular) they will be competing against one another in the more truck side of the spectrum. They will have better off road capabilities but my guess is their ride will not be quite as good and the back seat area will be smaller (just look at the difference in door size). I think Honda's marketing postion is really good, making the most use of their strengths (reliability and drivability) while slowly expanding into new areas. I for one am very interested in what the final product will be like.

nova

I like every thing about the SUT but I think the all wheel drive should be an option. I live in florida and have no need for that option. It uses more gas and is expensive to repair when it breaks. With out AWD the price will be more appealing to more people

hairong

nova, AWD cannot be optional! Without it, this SUT would be FWD, 'cause Honda does not have RWD for this platform. You don't want a FWD of any kind drag 5000+ pounds around behind its rear.

got1b, the one question you need to ask is, how big is this niche market this Honda SUT is aiming at?

With all the crew cab compact PUs, the Sport Tracs, the Bajas, and Envoy XUVs, Honda has only one clear advantage on ALL of them, on-road comfort and behavior. How many people, besides Honda loyalists, will want to buy this thing? Is 20,000 a year good enough? Or, will 40,000 per year considered a run away success? If this (20k-40k per year) is what Honda has in mind, they can easily get this number by tweaking the marketing/incentive/production of the MDX and Pilot and save the development cost. To me, more than anything else, this SUT is Honda's attempt to try to get in a new market segment and keep Honda loyalists (who want this kind of vehicles) staying with the family, kinda like the 1st gen. of Oddy and Sienna. Don't bet on this first attempt.

If you are talking about over $30k market, which is upscale mid-size and just a fraction of the whole 4 door pick up segment, there really is only one competition, Envoy XUV. Honda should monitor the sales number of the XUV closely. However, with crew cab FULL SIZE pick ups with big V8s priced exactly the same, I wonder how successful this whole niche will be.

once_for_all

good points--the niche here, as I see it, is decent performance, AWD, nice ride (ie no truck chassis) and handling, mpg in the mid-20s, moderate towing capability. The only other vehicle that tried this was the Baja, and it would have succeeded (IMO)had Subaru made the cab large enough for a 6 footer to enjoy front and back.

John

atlgaxt

I would not use the Baja as an example for the market potential of the Honda SUT.

Baja suffers from limited interior room, a uselessly small bed that is not really helped by the pass through, limited towing ability (2,400 lbs) and odd looks.

I think the concept could work better on a larger vehicle that can deliver greater utility. However, I still think the availability of a midgate would change the SUT from a niche vehicle with limited sales to a big hit in the personal use pick-up market. As of now, my understanding is no midgate on the SUT, but I am still hoping to be pleasantly surprised.

once_for_all

agreed, you named all the Baja faults, and I agree, the SUT needs to overcome them and offer the same benefits of the Baja: handling, mpg, AWD.

It will be interesting to see what Subaru does with the Baja. I am saving my Subaru Bucks and if an '06 or '07 Baja platform presents itself, I might stay Subaru. Otherwise, the SUT is looking like the most likely candidate for my "ideal" vehicle.

John

varmint

A little news leaked the other day.

There will be the expected LX and EX models along with an EX-L (leather) and the option for Honda's voice-activated NAV.

Towing capacity (with towing package) is 5,000 lbs. The bed is 5 feet long with "innovative ties downs" whatever that means. Last I heard, Honda was not giving it a pass-through. They said that Avalanche owners hardly ever used it.

Estimated mileage is 16/21.

jfigueroa1

I know the ford sport track is base on the old ranger/explorer dated back around 8yrs. But with the new explorer frame I will imagine that a new sport track will or is been develop not sure about pricing some of these vehicle are getting expensive.
greetings from VA
fig.

saaderum

YOU KNOW I AM VERY EXCITIED WITH THE NEW HONDA SUT COMING OUT BECAUSE FINALLY SO OTHER COMPANY CAME OUT WITH A TRUCK MEANING THAT HONDA AND/OR ACURA NEVER MADE A TRUCK YEAH BUT THEY DID MAKE A SUV AND THE BAD THING ABOUT THIS TRUCK IS THAT IT IS V6 ENGINE IF IT WAS V6 THEN IT WOULD HAVE MORE POWER TO GIVE AND THATS WHAT IN MY OPINION PEOPLE ARE LOOKING FOR IS STRONG TRUCKS THAT ARE AT LEAST A V8 ENGINE LIKE FOR EXAMPLE THE NISSAN TITAN TRUCK NOW THATS A TRUE TRUCK YOU KNOW SO IN MY OPION I AM PRETTY EXCITIED AND THE THING IS THAT I AM WORRIED THAT HOW MUCH IS IT GOING TO BE YOU KNOW SO THATS ABOUT OIT IN MY OPINION

Kirstie_H

saaderum, I'm glad to hear you're excited about this upcoming vehicle. Oh, and welcome to Town Hall! Are you saying you're hoping it has a V8? It's not quite clear.

If you could turn off the CAPS LOCK key, that would help us all read your message better. Thanks!

atlgaxt

will come from crew cab Dakotas, Frontiers and Tacomas, all three of which will be all new next year. Of these, only the Dakota will have a V8, which will not have a decisive power advantage over the new 4.0 V6 engines in the Toyota and Nissan or the V6 planned for the SUT.

I think the timing is great. The compact / midsized truck market has been languishing due to aging product and the popularity of the big trucks. However, with surging fuel prices and all the new attention to smaller trucks with the new models coming out, I predict this will be a hot segment.

BTW, I do not think the 5 cylinder Colorado / Canyon twins will be competitive, and will get blown out of the water when the new Nissan, Toyota, and Dodge hit the market. When is Ford going to get into the fray with a new Ranger?

terex

"Blown out of the water", how? I don't understand how the Colorado/Canyon will be non-competitive in an environment of higher fuel prices. They have the best fuel economy/power relationship of anything that's out there right now. Do you think the '05 V6's will be as efficient or more to make them non-competitive? Can't necessarily have it both ways. . .("However, with surging fuel prices and all the new attention to smaller trucks with the new models coming out, I predict this will be a hot segment.

BTW, I do not think the 5 cylinder Colorado / Canyon twins will be competitive, and will get blown out of the water when the new Nissan, Toyota, and Dodge hit the market.")

atlgaxt

The GM twins (Colorado / Canyon) are showing up to a gunfight with a knife.

GM 5 cylinder has 220 hp and 225 lb ft of torque going through a 4 speed auto.

My Mazda has 207 hp and 238 lb ft of torque going through a 5 speed auto.

Although my Mazda has a little less hp, the torque and transmission give it good acceleration (about 8 - 8.5 0-60 depending upon different reviews). I drove a Canyon and although it is only a little slower (probably about (8.5 - 9.0 depending upon different reviews) it feel flat footed in normal driving compared to my Mazda.

That is before the new trucks come out next year. '05 Frontier and Tacoma will have 240 - 250 hp and 270 - 280 lb ft of torque out of their respective v6s. Even if the fuel economy is not as good as the GM twins, the power difference is so great the decision will be a no brainer. The Dakota offers a 4.7 v8 with 250 hp and about 300 lb ft of torque. Admittedly, this is a bigger truck that will burn more fuel. BTW, although the GM twins get decent EPA figures, according to the latest Car & Driver, the Canyon they tested got 14 mpg, which is only slightly higher than the 12-13 mpg they have been getting with full sized SUVs and crew cab pickups.

GM dropped the ball not putting the in the great in-line six from the trail blazer, which I understand will not fit the Canyon. Now they have a weird sounding, rough running engine that is weak. In order to stay competitive, they will have to use forced induction. Until then, their cheap plasticky looking interiors will not save them from their weak engines. However, if you like vehicles that depreciate like rocks, go ahead and pass on the new Nissan and Toyota and buy the GM twins.

Oh BTW, back on topic, the new Honda SUT will have a lot more HP and Torque than the GM twins also. Also, there is no doubt the new Honda will hold its value much better than the GM twins, and the Honda will have a much higher quality interior.