Subaru Impreza WRX STi

jhpmicheal

i really don't want to talk about sti and evos all day, is there any other cars that can beat those twinturbocharged little sedans with less $? what about Mini cooper S john cooper works? but hate the styling though...

jhpmicheal

i want to see the general aspect of the popularity of certain model of a performance cars. i am thinking of lancer evolution. much more popular than sti, b/c of the aftermarket products and lot cheaper than sti too. But really doesn't evolution looks kinda baby car? i dunno...maybe its just me.

merrycynic

Funny, I love the styling of the mini! Unfortunately, it's an impractical 2 door 2 wheel drive vehicle with questionable reliability. I understand that they do really well in pylon racing. That's it, not in the same league as the STi and EVO. I guess the Mustang, RX8 and Z could be considered in the same price range. There's something to be said about the rally inspired cars. As performance cars the street versions of rally cars seem to have more in common with real people, on real roads, in real weather, with real utility. As for me, I'm not willing to give up all wheel drive!

houstoncarselr

in the Evo and STi, all that's left is the rest. You can't talk top shelf without talking Evo and STi. My .02, YMMV.

mjc440

I think the STi's & Evo's 0-60 specs are in the high 4's. That's extremely fast for a $30k car. I don't think a Mini Cooper will come close to this. The only car in the $30K range that may give give it a run is the S2000 (although I think the Evo and STi will still prevail)

newcar31

"i really don't want to talk about sti and evos all day, is there any other cars that can beat those twinturbocharged little sedans with less $?"

A used Camaro or Mustang with mods. You could easily build a Fox body Mustang to run with or beat an Evo or STI for a lot less than $30K and that includes handling too. You never said anything about used cars....

mjc440

I don't think it's fair to include modified cars. I could modify a Plymouth Valiant for under $30k to make it faster than a STi / Evo.

I think JHP implied "new" cars.

newcar31

there really aren't any new cars that meet or beat the EVO or STI in bang for the buck, so I figured I'd throw in a couple used late models to make things more interesting.

Really, the only car that comes close to the EVO or STI is the Neon SRT. Yeah, it's FWD, but realize that the only way you're getting sub 5 second 0-60 times in the EVO or STI is by severly abusing the clutch and driveline. AWD cars are really hard on clutches when you're trying to launch them.

Yeah, you could make a Valiant as fast or faster as an EVO, but I don't know about handling. The Camaro and Mustang may not be based on new chassis' but they're newer than the Valiant. What does the Valiant have, leaf springs? Stripper fox body Mustang coupes weigh less than 3000 lbs and can be made to kick butt on the track or the strip. If we're talking bang for the buck, it's hard to beat a fox body Mustang.

kevin111

The GTO will be close for about $32K. 0-60 at 5.3 secs, and 0.88 gs on the skid pad. Both #s can be improved by upgrading the wheels (per C&D review).

The Mustang SVT at $34K is faster than the Evo or STi at 0-60 and 1/4 mile, and you do not have to do a major clutch drop to get this.

ateixeira

Look at the STi's own cousin, the Forester XT.

Before you say I'm crazy, keep in mind it has the same block, same forged pistons, it's just slightly de-tuned. Stated output it just 210hp but dyno runs have put actual power at about 250hp and 265 lb-ft of torque. Cobb and Vishnu dyno runs both confirm this.

You can get one for $23k, so with $7 grand in mods you think you could make it handle? Heck yeah...

It already does 0-60 in 5.3 seconds, so it can accelerate with the big boys. 0-30 is quicker than a Ferrari Enzo, probably due to grip at launch. 0-50 is quicker than a Porsche Cayenne Turbo (V8 turbo!).

-juice

rickrover

Hot Rod magazine did a really good comparison of the STi vs Cobra last month. Bottom line they said in typical race the STi would beat the Cobra - no kidding.

The GTO is more of a match for the Forester XT not the STi.

subarusaleshou

for an Evo or STi unless you are willing to drop multiples of the price. At less than $35k out the door they have no competition that can do all things as well as they do. You might surpass them in any given area depending on what vehicle is chosen but for the overall package they are it.

the_man

Buy a Caterham Super Seven SV. It cost less than the STI at 30,000 dollars fully built. It has the same acceleration times and out handales most exotic cars. It delivers a driving experience like no other.

You can also get a used Corvette Z06, early 90's Viper or Audi S4 for about 30k.

ateixeira

The 2.7T S4 will not outperform the STi, though the new V8 model might.

-juice

kevin111

From the MotorTrend website -

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedan/112_0308_sport/index6.h- tml

S4 0-60 - 5 secs.
Skid pad - 0.9 gs
1/4 mile - 13.44 @ 105.06
Braking, 60-0 mph, ft - 117

Both Evo and STi meets or exceeds these numbers for significantly less.

These numbers are generous compared with the numbers Car and Driver was able to get.

the_man

Maybe an S4 can't outrun the sti, but what about that caterham? It's preformance is much better than the STI or the EVO. Heck, you could even buy a used one for around 15k.

ateixeira

I wonder if I could even fit in one.

Then again the EVO's seats are too narrow for me.

-juice

the_man

The SV, unlike other Caterhams is longer and wider with a bigger cabin to accomidate taller americans with their large rear ends.

jhpmicheal

Probably Mazdaspeed rx-8 might compete with sti and evo. Hopely it is around $30k. For what i heard from my friend in Japan, the mazdaspeed version rx8 will come in winter or spring next year. Also said it might come with two seater coupe version, made the weight under 3000lbs.!!
I'm sure this car will beat sti and evo. i also forgot. RWD can have better traction than FWD, for example RX8, using soft tread tires, well of course less fuel mileage and less life span.

95gt

Sorry but i doubt it. First sti is AWD not FWD, second i have read that even the mazdaspeed version is not all that fast. The regular RX-8 unless clutch dumped is a 7 second car (5-60). I am sure that car handles like a go cart but the fact that a sports car will lose to most pickup trucks out there takes it out of the running. The engine is cool but the issues involved with it (oil consumption, and terrible gas mileage)outweigh its benefits. Nice car but not quite the performer it should be

ateixeira

I like the RX8, but I didn't find the rear doors that useful, and the seats have no real space. I'd pick a G35 coupe over it.

Make a lighter 2 seater instead, call it the RX7, that would challenge the best.

-juice

majorthomecho

What exactly do you mean by price range? Would a car $5,000 less or a car $5,000 more than the sti be within the price range? I don't have a car in mind, just wondering?

Also, would a car that had mods done be eligible as long as the final cost was still within "the price range?"

If mods are allowed, I would say the SRT-4 (which someone else brought up) within some mods could stay with and possibly beat an sti. The SRT-4 only costs $20,000 and so you would have $10,000 to spend on mods and you are only then getting to the price of the sti.

majorthomecho

Actually, the RX-7 (which will be a 2-door version of the RX-8) is indeed headed back to these shores. I am not sure when and don't remember where I read it, but I am sure it was in one of the major magazines.

majorthomecho

I want to add that we need to be realistic if we start dealing in modded cars as to ones that can hang with an sti. I would suppose there are many cars that given enough cash could hang with the sti, but we need to be realistic. I think a criteria needs to be will the modded car be durable or would it be a one hit wonder. I think a modded SRT-4 would be durable and could stay with a sti on a consistent basis while a car like my Echo might be able to be modded so that it could stay with (or beat) the sti, but would probably not be long for this world.

qbrozen

The SRT4 has yet to prove its reliable even in its stock form. So to think that it can be modded to crank out 300 horses (through the front wheels, mind you, which is a whole other post by itself) and hold up over time is, at this point, wishful thinking.

ateixeira

SRT-4 is closer to the regular WRX. If you allow mods, you'd allow mods to both of them, they'd still be closer competitors than the STi.

-juice

buddhabman

You can probably get one for 31-32K with incentives. Don't get me wrong I am a big Subie fan, but the SVT would be fun to rip around in.

ateixeira

Gotta wait for the new body style, though. The existing platform dates back to the 70s.

I'll look forward to seeing what SVT can do with a modern Mustang.

-juice

majorthomecho

A number of the car mags are reporting on the next Evo which is called the Evolution MR. It looks like Subaru better keep moving or the MR will one up the sti. 0 to 60 is supposedly 4.3 seconds.

kevin111

Have not heard those rumors, unless the EVO FQ300 is comming across the shores. Even then, I think the EVO mentioned would be completely stripped of ammenities, but not completely sure.

There has been rumors that the next STi will get a +10% power upgrade, which should be able to hang with that EVO. Especially since the STi does 4.6 in the 60 now.

boomn29

"Especially since the STi does 4.6 in the 60 now"

Where did you find that? I've never seen anything lower than 4.9 since you have to shift into 3rd gear... Can you prove this?

qbrozen

C&D - New-Wave Slingshots - 4.6 secs.

autoweek - Imprezive: Subaru one-ups its WRX - 4.78 secs.

boomn29

0-60 and 1/4 mile

Sti: 4.78 - 13.23@104.6
Evo: 4.59 - 13.08@105.1

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedan/112_0306_frstsub/index2- .html

Either way, you have a damn fast car.

kevin111

Seems every other magazine/auto comparison rates the STi faster in 0-60 including Edmunds.

Heck, even CR stated the STi was faster!!!

qbrozen

looks like autoweek and motortrend are dead on down to the thousandths. Kind of odd if you ask me. Is it possible that one is plagarizing the other?

ateixeira

Keep in mind press cars might be "ringers".

-juice

qbrozen

But I prefer to think of them as "broken in."

In any case, I don't believe its at all unreasonable to think that the STi can get AT LEAST a half second advantage over the Forester XT.

boomn29

No normal driver can tell a difference between a few tenths of a second anyways, that's why I say they are both damn fast!

Other future possibilities for rivals:
 - If they build a new gen Supra
 - If they ever bring the Skyline over
 - If they build a new gen RX-7

rickrover

If they bring those "rivals" out they will be significantly more expensive than the STi.

Plus the aftermarket tuners are getting close to releasing engine management for the STi - a couple thousand dollars should give the STi another 50-80 WHP.

majorthomecho

Actually, Toyota is thinking of bringing back a car with the Supra name. It is said that it will be a hybrid making 300hp.

boomn29

There are already engine management systems for the EVO producing that much extra HP.

A friend of mine bought a UTEC, and was able to pull 60 whp out of it via professional tuning.

AMS Motorsports (Chicago) is working on a 1000hp EVO. They already have others putting down upwards of 500 to the wheels - near 650hp at the crank.

ateixeira

The Volta concept from Geneva may be the next Supra.

Street legal and reliable, not at those levels. Besides, where's the autobahn in the US? I haven't found one.

-juice

majorthomecho

At,

There are areas in the United States (principally the West and Southwest) where the highway is open to legal races at certain time of the year. Some courses are just straightaways and some are quite curvy. I found out about this in an issue of Automobile magazine last year.

ateixeira

Well what do you know...

LOL

-juice

280hp

i think these 2 could with performance mods.

boomn29

Maybe if you gut them out and redo the everything, but it wouldn't be worth the time or money.

majorthomecho

I still think we need some guidelines. For sake of this discussion, would it be permissible to take a car that is priced less then the sti and use the savings for mods that might bring the car up to the sti's performance figures?

qbrozen

I'm pretty sure we can imply its stock vs. stock. Yes, you can modify the heck out of a standard economy car, but you can kiss all reliability and warranty goodbye.

I think the only exceptions would be a car that has dealer-added performance mods backed by a full factory warranty.

boomn29

What about the 'tuners' that offer warranties??

qbrozen

Something like JCW I think is factory backed, is it not? Maybe I'm wrong. In any case, I think as long as the warranty for the entire car is kept in tact, then that's fine.

But some tuners offer warranties, but only on their parts. If you fry your tranny, you are out of luck because the tuner doesn't cover it and now the factory won't cover it because of the tuner parts.

boomn29

www.worksrally.com

"Factory Matched 3-Year Warranty" They put it in writing on all their products.

Let's not try to argue over factory vs aftermarket warranties, we'll be here all day. But, a warranty nonetheless proves they are confident in their products.