Lincoln Zephyr/MKZ

tiger16

Too much caffeine today, akirby? Take it easy, Bro. I don't care what kind of math you use, it's 4 model years - 06, 07, 08 and the 09. How is that not 4 years? Anyway, that "new" picture post, forget it. Looks too much like the old Seville.

akirby

It's a 3 year cycle, not 4 (06,07,08 the same then new for 09). 2009 - 2006 = 3.

[Deleted User]

Correct, Allen. 09 would start a new cycle...though I hope it is not another 3 whole years to a whole new MKZ.

If so, that would mean that Ford is sticking to six year or more product cycle with a mid-cycle refresh. That's why I'm hoping they modify the roof and side panels a bit this time (rather than the usual front/rear clip mods with interior mods), so that we don't live six years with essentially the same Zephyr styling.

Ford used to be able to distinguish the roofs between Fords and Mercurys very inexpensively (Tempo/Topaz, Taurus/Sable, T-bird/Cougar, even the early 90's Crown Vic/Grand Marquis). They should do at least as much for the Fusion/MKZ Ford-Lincoln distinctions. We'll see soon enough.

dds010

I agree the MKZ redesign should have some changes so that the overall shape isnt the same as the Fusion with a 3.7 that makes like 310 horses( This would give it one victory over the competition), with suspension options and some of the technological features from the MKS( adaptive headlights, seamless touch keypad), and does anyone know if the Milan will be more different than the Fusion or will it be another tipical Mercury.

bigt

Well whatever Ford/Lincoln does they better get going on their committment to Hybrids or alternative fuels and do something about the mileage. I am willing to settle for less of lots of items if they give me more mileage. I am (like most) watching more and more of my disposable going down and out of the fuel tank and don't like it!

akirby

Hybrid Fusion due before the end of this year.

dds010

Any updates for the 09 changes

akirby

Latest is the 09 models will go on sale this summer largely unchanged and will be followed by the 2010 models debuting in December and going on sale in January. 2.5L I4 with new 6 speed transmissions (auto and manual), hybrid and it appears there will be an improved version of the current 3.0L with better fuel mileage and more power (probably around 245 hp) with the 3.5L available shortly after launch in a sport model.

dds010

I find it hard to beleive that the MKZ would receive the 3.0, i was thinking that it would defintiely receive the 3.7 with over close to or over 300 horses and similar torgue to have some type of bragging rights

jeyhoe

"I find it hard to beleive that the MKZ would receive the 3.0, i was thinking that it would defintiely receive the 3.7 with over close to or over 300 horses and similar torgue to have some type of bragging rights "

You ask, you get answered, then you say u dont believe it.

Here, I'll ask you now- If the 3.7 with 273hp is going into the Lincoln 'temporary flagship the mks' then what makes u think they'd put a version with 300hp in the little entry-level mkz?

bigt

Will Lincoln ever put Hybrid technology in one of their cars? Why not get ahead of the game here?

akirby

It's possible - the Fusion will have it by the end of this year. But no word on whether the MKZ gets a version or not.

[Deleted User]

Is that right? The MKZ will go back to sharing all engines with the Fusion and Milan...even the 4 cylinder hybrid? And the 3.5 will be delayed? For what reason? It is already in the car now, and is planned for the Fusion as well. Were you talking about the Fusion perhaps?

akirby

DUH! Wrong forum. I was talking about the Fusion/Milan, not the MKZ. I think the timeline is the same but obviously it will either keep the 3.5L or get the new 3.7L. I guess there is a slight chance it will have an upgraded 3.7L with DI but I think that's another year away.

I hope it gets a MKS like interior but no spy shots or inside info on that yet. Only thing we seem to know for sure is it gets the MKS style grille.

akirby

They don't have a 300 hp version of the 3.7L yet. That will take Direct Injection and it's just not ready yet. If it is ready by the time the new MKZ shows up then you can bet it will also be in the MKS by then but it will probably be available only in the AWD versions.

bigt

Now with gas at 4 bucks, what is Licoln going to do in this area? Maybe they assume if you purchase a Lincoln why would you be worried about the price of petrol!

jeyhoe

Been over $4.00 here in SF Bay area for weeks.

Now they're predicting $10.00 by next year.

And this AMs news on Drudge is "$17 billion in 3 months. Record profits for oil companies."

And my senator, Barbara Boxer, said she was going to fix this. Hey Babs - time to get off yer duff.

don90

Take a look at Ford.com for the new MKS.

150mphclub

Ask Babs what her position is on drilling in Alaska, North Dakota, offshore.
Ask her what her position is on building a new refinery in CA.
Ask her what her position is on Nuclear power.
Ask her what her position is on coal gasification.

Her position is no, no, no, no. Everybody just drive a Prius.

She is a big part of the problem.

[Deleted User]

Maybe you should get with the program. Gas is so high, not because of high oil company profits (a mere side effect windfall for them) or due to any real supply concerns (there is plenty of inventory out there). It is due to pure speculation and investment in oil futures. This is now the only game in town where prices keep heading up, so that is where people are putting their betting money.

As long as the dollar remains low, this will likely continue to be the case. Until the Fed starts jacking, not lowering, loan rates and restricting the availability of easy credit to try to shield the pigs in the real estate arena, not much will change with gas prices. There is no free lunch. Either we all pay by higher energy prices, or we let the recession in housing, loans, and commercial real estate run its course.

jrich08

I disagree that there is a "recession" in the housing/real estate market. There may be in parts of the country, but not everywhere. My mother is a real estate agent in a suburb of Nashville, Tennessee, and she is so busy she hardly has time to rest. She showed houses to three individuals/couples today, and wrote offers for two of them. Don't believe everything you hear on television - the liberal media would have you to believe that this nation is in dire straights and that any minute now the infrastructure is going to crash down on us. BUT IT'S NOT TRUE. Their main intent is to make President Bush look soooooo bad, just so they can get one of their lackeys in office. :mad:

[Deleted User]

Bush doesn't need anyone's help at this point in order to look bad. You obviously don't look at our (Republican) government statistics. Of course there a still hot real estate markets, but they are islands in a growing sea of foreclosures, brought on by lenders lending to people who really didn't qualify (who cares, real estate always increases in value, doesn't it?), and buyers who had no clue what they could afford. Not to mention the overbuilding of condos, and commercial real estate that now goes begging. Property values continue to drop and no one likes that, except a buyer in the right situation at the right time. High end properties now have to sell for well under assessed value in many places. Talk about havoc wreaking.

We have about double the retail space we can actually use and support. No wonder so many longtime outlets (e.g., Bombay, Linens and Things) have gone belly up or are about to. It's the old bulls make money and bears make money, but pigs get slaughtered.

I am a conservative guy in most things, but I have to laugh at the concept of "liberal media," a term pushed by talk radio whose talkers are more interested in entertainment and stirring up crap than getting at the truth. The truth is we have a few large corporate conglomerates that own the media and they are anything but liberal. Rupert Murdoch liberal? I think not. The evening news is laughable, but not because it is liberal. It is pap. It is spew. Investigative reporting is dead.

Now, back to MKZ. What is your concern about it? That is the forum topic after all.

alakerson

As a veteran of more than a decade of newspaper reporting and 20 years in PR, I heartily agree there is no such thing as liberal media. I worked for a newspaper chain with a progressive viewpoint, then a major metro paper with a conservative point of view.

The progressive publisher never got into the newsroom to slant the news -- the conservative publisher repeatedly made the news columns into a personal soapbox ... at the expense of objective, professional, no-sacred-cows journalism.

During my PR tenure, I had to watch closely for media bias on behalf of corporate clients -- clients mostly of conservative persuasion. Some reporters were tough, some were gentle. Some were excellent. Some were hard-hitting. Some were sloppy. Some were VERY arrogant. Some were unfair -- but evidence of a so-called liberal trend? Nope. Not even when we had to deal with an extremely negative story on our client that was to be run on "60 Minutes." Admittedly only anecdotal evidence, but first-hand anecdotal evidence.

The whining about liberal bias whining is little more than a Republican strategem to reduce the journalistic spotlight ---or rather the credibility of the journalistic spotlight -- being put on their misdeeds. And they've done a great job; millions of people who could and should think things through more have instead let the pundits and the pols tell them what to think.

Yeah ... yeah ... I know the subject of this forum is the MKZ, not the status of US media, but I hit overload when I hear people complaining about the so-called liberal media.

So, changing the subject ... as an owner of an MKZ for the last two years, I am 99% happy with the car. A lot of car for the money, but admittedly with virtually no cachet/prestige for the money. When I tell people what I drive, they turn up their MB, BMW, Audi, Lexus noses. But when other people simply see the car itself or actually ride in it, I get compliments on it.

Nevertheless, I get 19-21 mpg even with all-wheel drive; I enjoy both bun warmers and bun coolers; I experience great stabiity and traction in rain and snow. I have the best radio/media player (THX) I have ever had in any car -- and past cars include a BMW 528, four Legends, an Audi TT, and an RL. (Six of the seven were stick-shifts; so don't write me off as a doddering white-belted Lincoln ower.)

MKZ styling -- needs a little work to further differentiate from its two lower priced siblings, but not a big deal to me. Especially when compared to the godawful Chris Bangle BMWs, or the Lexus/Acura et al product styling which boasts little more than new versions of the jelly bean look. That look was great 20+ years ago on the first Taurus/Sable ... but two decades later, it's time to move on.

Where do we go from here -- posts about the urgent need for better MPG cars are right on target. I'd gladly give up some bells and whistles -- and accept a slower 0-60 time -- on my MKZ for significantly better MPG. Dowsize it further; make it lighter -- all good. Don't legislate to lower gasoline prices; make the vehicles efficient enough that we can cope with these ridiculous (or higher) prices, and maybe we can even dream of so-called oil energy independence.

cowbell

alakerson, I agree with most of your assessments of the MKZ, though I'm getting slightly better fuel economy then you. I average a hair below 22 mpg, and that's in DC.

In my mind the biggest thing that needs to be changed is the center console. It's needs to be bigger, sturdier, and have more storage space. It's the only part of the car I'm embarrassed by. I hate the way it gives when you push on it.

As for the styling, I'd say to make sure to keep the Art Deco styling. It's honestly what sold me on the car, and what really differentiated it from other vehicles.

akirby

I expect the 2010 model to look more like the MKS, although that's just a guess at this point since nobody has seen even a spy shot of the new interior.

bigt

Wow, talk a little political and get more response than anything about the MKZ!

I am waiting to purchase the next best American hybrid. Hopefully it is in 2009 or if I have to wait until 2010 so be it. Even if this means trading down.

150mphclub

"Wow, talk a little political and get more response than anything about the MKZ!"

Maybe that's because there is not much to talk about the MKZ. I test drove two of them last week at the same dealer (one with 13 miles on it & the other with 3,000). The driver's seat was not very comfortable, and the transmission shifts were rough. It is not a luxury car. It is just a gussied up Ford.

Karen_S

....if you want to talk politics, please do so in the OTC.

autopaul

Here's a link to a review of the MKZ. Not a bad looking car.
I'll be curious to see what they do with the 2009.

http://www.instantriverside.com/instant-wheels.php?id=4790

akirby

The 2009 goes into production next month for a 6 month run. The 2010 models get the refresh and will be on sale in January 2009.

The 2009 models will get stability control but that's about it other than color changes.

The 2010 model is supposed to get a new grille and interior very similar to the MKS.

alakerson

We took my 91-year-old mother back to her hometown for the traditonal Memorial Day visit to the family cemetery in our AWD MKZ -- a round trip of abouty 350-400 miles including side trips. Average MPG, mostly interstate: about 23-24 mpg at 60-75 mph. I thought that was pretty good for an all wheel drive car. Regular gas of course. Gas prices in in eastern/mid Mo. ranged from $3.75 to $3.79/gal.

BUT GETTING TO THE POINT ... one of the two family cemeteries we visit requires 2-3 miles on gravel roads, followed by a mile or two on a so-called dirt road. The cemetery has long been unused -- last burial was at leat 40 years ago. The dirt road to the cemetery was really nothing but slippery, mushy mud and standing water, even though it is supposedly a county maintained road. The mud was so squishy we were leaving ruts of up to six inches deep at times.

Yes, I was stupid to try it -- my only defense was that I was too far in with nowhere to turn around when I realized just how bad the road was. It was slippier than snow. Admittedly I was wishing repeatedly I had brought the Subaru Tribeca instead of the Lincoln.

But, my doubts were unfounded. The MKZ performed flawlessly. -- about as well as the Tribeca; only issue being that the Lincoln's tires certainly weren't made for mud. I kept it in low through most of the mud road trip. We got to the family cemetery and back without any problem. Even on what were some very sharp up and down hills. Never felt any slippage from the wheels, but a little skidding once or twice as the tires lost, then regained their grip.

This car's lease is up in November, and I keep telling myself I'll turn it in then and live with the Tribeca. But this car just keeps on coming up with reasons to stay in the family. As I said in an earlier post -- the MKZ comes with virtually none of the prestige of the European and Japanese entry-level luxo offerings, but with a lot more down-to-earth value than any of those. Did I mention its THX radio blows away anything I ever had in my 528 or five different Acuras (3 Legends, one RL, one TL) with their versions of upmarket sound systems?

I never knew the MKZ was such a mudder. I passed a mud-splattered Jeep on the highway coming home, but can honestly say I was sporting about as much slop on the Lincoln as he was. Oh, for a back-window decal that said, "It's an MKZ thing ... you wouldn't understand." Course, there are a few differences -- the Jeep owner will go back and gleefully do the mud thing again next weekend. I on the other hand hope never to encounter said stuff again.

But what an underestimated car!

jerrys2

What a wonderful story ! God bless you for taking your Mom. I agree with your comments on the MKZ. I have had my '08 since Sept. 12k trouble free miles.Love the car, my first Ford product since my '65 Mustang.

Interestingly I also have a Tribeca which serves me well as a New England skiier.

Jerry

[Deleted User]

but a little skidding once or twice as the tires lost, then regained their grip.

And that would not have happened either, if Ford had had the foresight to design the car with stability control. AWD won't do much for you if you go into a slide.

If you like the car, get the 2009 when the lease is up. It will have stability control and good deals, since they will be clearing them out all year in anticipation of the early release 2010's.

bigt

Why are the doing an early 2010 release? Do you think the MKZ will ever be offered with better gas mileage? I am trying to decide to stay with this line or go to a Hybrid Fusion.

cowbell

Question on ESC: How would Electronic Stability Control help in the situation described. ESC can apply the brakes to individual wheels. How would applying the brake to a wheel that's sliding through mud stop the car?

If anything, the situation described above is the perfect example of when AWD comes in handy. When there is not enough traction under certain wheels and power needs to be spread out.

I'm not an expert on this, but that was my understanding of ESC. It's great for when the driver is pushing the car too hard, but does not help in situation where the problem is bad traction. Braking a wheel that had no traction to begin with does no good.

[Deleted User]

It is my understanding that the most sophisticated versions of ESC operate both throttle and brake controls. Braking a spinning wheel and sending torque to the wheel or wheels that are not spinning can be quite effective in a skid or slide.

When an AWD vehicle begins to slide, AWD helps little to right it until some speed is scrubbed off. ESC takes a more active and instantaneous approach. Having both AWD and ESC is the best set-up, but having driven both for some time and if I had to choose, for on-road driving safety I would take ESC every time.

AWD might power you out of some muck that ESC could not, but ESC overall does a better job of accident avoidance. And a car like the MKZ should offer both. No excuses.

cowbell

I agree ESC is a great feature and the MKZ should have it, but the situation alakerson described was not at all an application for ESC, and I think you selling it wrong to tell him he wouldn't have slipped in the mud if he had ESC.

When a car is in LOW and moving slowly as alakerson describes, ESC will do almost nothing, while AWD will help the vehicle move.

[Deleted User]

I don't agree that it wouldn't work in low speed conditions, but thankfully, this is not an important debate.

alakerson

As the guy who was dumb enough to unleash his MKZ on a road so muddy it would have stopped the Germans drive through Russia in '41, I have to say your comments about stability control are both interesting and informative. I had not thought about this in praising the MKZ as a mudder. I guess I should go back to that horrid excuse for a road, this time with our Subaru Tribeca (with stability control) and see how well it does. Not!

Seriously, I agree totally with those who advocate stability control as standard in a car with the price range of Lincoln, even though I can't say for sure whether stability control would have helped on that road at the low speeds I was going (5-10 mph).

Regardless ... I doubt if I would buy another car without stability control.

cowbell

With the new regulations coming, you won't be able to buy a new car with out stability control. It will soon be required by law on all new cars. I think 2012.

All Ford products are supposed to be ESC equipped standard by 2009.

bigt

Are we to believe this or is it just smoke and mirrors?

http://jalopnik.com/392654/2009-lincoln-mkz-hybrid

akirby

More like wild guesses - there is nothing to really suggest that's a hybrid. It's possible for the 2010 model that goes on sale in January but nothing official or unofficial from Ford yet.

bigt

What is up with 2010 models in January? Why would anyone purchase a 2009 besides price. Sounds like the 2010 would be the one to get.

[Deleted User]

You would purchase the 2009 because it will offer stability control, and be a much better deal than the 2010. The differences will be superficial anyway...an allegedly better interior and the new split grill.

bigt

Why would they have such a short stay for a 2009 model?

akirby

Because they wanted to get the redesigned models out as soon as possible. They were originally scheduled to debut this fall as the 2009 models but the program got pushed back to summer 2009, then pulled up to January. It's simply a timing issue.

badhugo

Any information on what engine(s) may be in the 2010 MKZ when it goes into production in January 2009?

akirby

Strangely - no. There has been ZERO inside info on the MKZ. Rumor is it gets a new dash more similar to the MKS. I'm guessing it will retain the 3.5L so the MKS 3.7L retains superiority until the EcoBoost 3.5L appears next year, but I could be wrong.

I'm sure it gets the new Nav system just like the MKS and I hope it gets some of the MKS features (keyless go, integrated keypad, etc.) but no word yet.

Ford has really put a clamp on leaks lately.

jeyhoe

I read that Fusion and Milan will get hybrid versions, but no similar story about Z.

akirby

Correct. I guess they didn't want to put a 4 cylinder in the MKZ and the V6 hybrids aren't ready yet. But understand that decision was made months if not years ago before the current gas crunch. They may rethink that decision IF they have enough hybrid capacity.