I spotted a NEW (insert make/model) today!

fintail

But are many aging boomer empty nesters wanting a third row, especially in something that does a poor job of masking its glorified minivan role?

I can believe the female brand thing, but I will stop there :shades:

At one time anyway, weren't all Pathfinders AWD? Will this one be? I don't see the Xterra as more fit for legitimate off (paved) road use. A co-worker of mine has an older 2WD model, it's a pretty ridiculous guzzling high wagon - but she likes it for the seating position.

ateixeira

Funny thing is I think the new Pathfinder will sell to younger moms with kids.

Murano to older moms, maybe kids at high school age or even empty nest moms.

I never understood the appeal of a RWD only SUV.

fintail

The old one didn't sell to them, why would the new one? Young moms with small kids seem to like the hilariously named Rogue.

I don't see the legitimate appeal of most of the entire segment.

ateixeira

The old one was boxy, stiff riding, guzzled gas, and had a bolt-upright 3rd row. It missed when it came to all the family-friendly criteria.

Nissan seems to have addressed all those complaints.

This is a better minivan than the Quest.

fintail

So it was a real SUV, and not a dressed up minivan. I don't see it being a hit past the initial hype phase. Very competitive market.

Being better than a Quest doesn't take much. It loses points on looks alone.

ateixeira

Well, the Murano was outselling the Pathfinder about 2 to 1 (4,829 to 2,462 12/2011). Pilot humiliates both - 11,641 sales in December 2011.

You can stow away the 3rd row, if it even is standard, and it's a less garish Murano with a much bigger cargo area. It has more universal appeal.

I would not be surprised to see Nissan reverse that, and sell more Pathfinders than Muranos. The interior looks very comfy.

The Quest's is plush, but the boxy rear and minivan stigma have hurt it.

Nissan/Infiniti hadn't has a single car-like crossover with 3 rows. The JX got a good start and the Pathy will do even better.

This is what the market (I know, not you) wants.

Edit: JX was already selling at rates similar to the old Pathfinder, and it costs more.

fintail

To be fair, the Pathfinder was/is getting to be ancient - Murano is newer (and so ugly compared to the relatively clean first one) and JX is still in the new hype phase. I don't see this new glorified minivan doing especially well. The nameplate will mean something predetermined, and old customers won't like it.

I see the Pilot as a size larger than either, and not in direct competition. It's like a sensibly sized Armada.

ateixeira

JX was in its very first month of sales, though. Let's see July, but I bet production has not ramped up yet. 0 sales in May and about 2400 in June, so I'm guessing it could break 3k in July.

And that's the expensive twin.

Nissan has tons of Altima owners with kids who want to move up in space/size. If they don't fumble the launch I think Pathfinder sales could easily triple.

This segment is huge and continues to expand. I really think this will be a hit for them. Comfort, space, high seating position, 3rd row, huge cargo hold, reasonable MPG, tons of tech available, ease of use, image, etc.

I have friends with an MDX who have been waiting for something with a little more space, plus something that runs on regular fuel, and less of it. This fits their needs perfectly.

fintail

I guess we will have to see. I haven't heard of waiting lists for the JX, and I've seen a few on the road, so they are getting out there. But first year sales stats are not the most accurate - a 3 year or so average tells a better story - and neither of us care for the car enough to want to watch that :shades:

I know 2 people who have Pathfinders - one single, one married with no kids and no plans for them. I have always thought the model kind of has that image - not a family car.

You do list a couple important things - image, seating position. That sells.

MDX, the new definition of overpriced beige, takes premium? That's ridiculous.

robr2

This segment is huge and continues to expand. I really think this will be a hit for them. Comfort, space, high seating position, 3rd row, huge cargo hold, reasonable MPG, tons of tech available, ease of use, image, etc.

And I'm one that joined them when I bought my Explorer last year.

Look at the numbers through June:

Explorer 75K
Pilot 65K
Enclave 28K
Equinox 112K
Acadia 42K
Highlander 57K

That's 400K units sold so far this year and Nissan hasn't had anything to compete with in the 3 row CUV category. Current Pathfinder is at about 15K. I figure the new model will sell about 50K units annually.

robr2

I know 2 people who have Pathfinders - one single, one married with no kids and no plans for them. I have always thought the model kind of has that image - not a family car.

But as you can see based on the sales numbers, there aren't enough of those folks to support the Pathfinder as a true off roader. It's only real competition in the 4Runner and Toyota has only sold 22K of those this year.

The 2 people you know will happily move into the 4Runner or an Outback it they aren't hard core 4 wheelers.

ateixeira

MDX actually performs, though. Rare to see one that does.

ateixeira

You could even merge Enclave/Acadia sales, maybe even Traverse.

It is a volume segment and massively profitable, I'm sure. These are $40k transactions, often more.

Nissan wants a piece of that pie. Pathfinder had been MIA on the sales leaders chart.

berri

I think Nissan needs to rework the Rogue also. As gas prices bounce up and down, so does the mid size versus small CRV size market share. The Rogue seems too small in most ways to all of the more recent movers in this category. As for the new Pathfinder; I'll have to see it, but I think if gas stays reasonable it has a good chance for success. The one vehicle I don't see a lot of deals advertised for is the Explorer. I'd guess they were trying to balance supply and demand, except I've seen a number of them in the rental fleets at the airports.

ateixeira

With Juke that means Nissan has four crossovers. XS, S, M, and now L.

fintail

Nissan also dumps a bit into fleets - I have seen rental Pathfinder and Rogue, and most Quest I see here are rental.

Pathfinder just makes me wonder, as it has an image for being a kind of old fashioned/non cosseting SUV with no real prestige - will the suburban poser crowd want it when it goes soft and gets an extra row?

I wonder if real SUVs will exist in a few years.

fintail

I usually see them performing in a mall parking lot at 5mph with a frazzled housewife and inept middle manager in the front seats, and spoiled devilspawn in the back :shades:

berri

I think crossovers have already won that war - better ride, comfort and mileage in an AWD wrapper. As for the Juke, I think its a joke. I expect that anime styling stuff to have a rather short shelf life and if I owned one I'd be trading it before the party is over.

berri

I agree that Nissan dumps a lot into fleets. As for the new Explorer, I've driven several rentals, but really can't make my mind up on this one yet. I think I like the GM Lambda's better, but I'm scared off of them given all of the negative blogs about them on the web.

ateixeira

Don't hold back to spare any feelings.

Same demographic drives the Cayenne, X6, etc.

ateixeira

fin may have a point about dropping the Pathfinder name and heritage.

Also, a buddy pointed out that it will lose sales in developing countries as it is no longer off road capable.

I guess Ghosn's bean counters did the math and more crossovers sales here would offset all of that.

They could have simply grown the Murano and built an extended wheelbase XTerra instead, to keep the name alive.

While visiting Suriname and Belize, I did see quite a few Pathfinders actually being used as intended.

ateixeira

Saw a new one this morning, then just read that the turbo was rated 20/31mpg.

That seems pretty poor for a compact sedan. Even Buick's own Regal turbo does better. The bigger Optima turbo beats both.

I hope the added insulation is noticeable.

robr2

Well since it's still made in Spain for the ROW, it'll probably continue on.

ateixeira

In July.

9,724 so far. Let's see if the new Pathfinder hurts it.

It is now their 2nd best selling model, after the G sedan.

fintail

And what a laudable demographic it is, just as lovable as those vehicles.

Must be something going on in an adjacent office building at work today - gobs of freshly plated rental fodder hanging around - almost all Malibu and Mazda 6. Co-worker was in a fender bender and has a new Corolla for a rental - which he loathes. And his normal car is a 10 year old Altima with 120K on it.

fintail

I wonder where the sales are coming from. MDX? Armada? Murano? I sincerely doubt it is Altima drivers moving up, as the thing costs twice as much, and most of the nation isn't receiving sketchy beltway salaries :shades:

ateixeira

Corollas cost less than a supersized meal at McDonalds nowadays.

I wouldn't expect much for the price. Funny how Elantra transactions prices are several thousand dollars higher on average. Remember when it used to be the other way around?

ateixeira

Remember those? Not new, but rare, especially now.

Also saw a CX5 on the beltway.

Then a strange one - a new SLK, but with a shiny brushed metal mirror housing. The car itself was gray so it really clashed.

At least it wasn't chrome.

fintail

And they look and apparently drive like they cost less than a McDonalds meal, too. A car for people who hate cars. Elantra is now much newer and more developed, worth a couple grand more anyway. The guy stuck in it was complaining that it engine brakes too much at highway speed - must be that archaic transmission.

Saw a white R8 Cabrio today, dare ask how it was purchased.

ateixeira

My brother has a Brazil-spec Corolla. To a passenger, it's comfortable and quiet. No complaints really.

Not at all an enthusiast's car, but not meant to be.

Toyota is saying the next one will change dramatically. Uh-oh.

ateixeira

Sad day when even the 'ring needs a bailout:

http://www.dw.de/dw/article/0,,16136416,00.html

Good decision to help out, though, given the association they have to German auto manufacturers.

stever

The story I saw last week blamed the whole problem on the owners' attempt to sell real estate associated with the track. The track itself was solvent.

First mention I've seen about the amusement park. Should have called Disney.

fintail

Beats walking, anyway.

I am sure Toyota knows well enough to keep the Corolla slathered in beige numbness.

Saw another new RX with the 61 Plymouth-Alien grille today, and that white Scion Freeze that a local lot was trying to flip is still sitting there, now covered in dust. Warms my heart.

And yeah, the problems at the 'Ring have to do with speculative commercial development when some wanted to make it into a full blown theme park with a mall and everything. Money and sense fail to meet yet again.

fintail

Saw a Caddy XTS today, parked at the dealer. Won't scare the Germans, but IMHO looks a lot sharper than the old DTS.

ateixeira

Corolla sells to young admin assistants around here.

They're cheap, run forever, and hold their value. Cost of operation is about as low as you can get, in fact I bet it costs less to own than most B segment cars.

It used to compete with the Civic by itself, but I think the Elantra has made a lot of shopping lists so they're willing to take a little more risk this time.

To be honest, I think for the most part they will simply try to style it slightly more aggressively and leave the mechanicals mostly intact, maybe a 5EAT or CVT auto.

In other words, I don't think it will take nearly as many risks as they say it will.

ateixeira

I like the XTS also. The huge wide screen is eye candy, too.

Pricing is ambitious but I bet these are a CPO bargain in a couple of years.

Saw a lot of new SRXs driving around this weekend. New Camaro RS parked in the condo across the way, also.

Also seeing plenty of new RDXs, I think it's selling at a much quicker pace than the outgoing one.

robr2

Spotted my first Equus in the wild yesterday. It was on I93 S in New Hampshire just north of Manchester. It was black with Florida plates. It had been blinged up with the addition of:

stickguy

someone around the corner from me seems to have bought one. I have seen it in the driveway, but I suppose it could have been visiting.

ateixeira

Decapitated flying lady?

tifighter

Well, speaking of the 13 pathfinder...

Per the thread title, I have now seen one of these in the flesh. I was working at a tradeshow over the weekend and Nissan brought one in a dark blue color to show off. It is bigger than the previous one for sure, and much roomier inside. The width is noticeable, especially vs the last one but given that the Pilot is as wide as a full size truck, it probably won't be much of an issue for most buyers. I would expect a sales increase like Juice has noted, but its not for me personally...

lemko

Trouble is the XTS is merely a gussied-up LaCrosse, therefore, I'll be hanging onto my DTS Performance for the time being. The XTS would make a nice car for the little lady since she's a fan of the LaCrosse on which its based. As for me, I'm waiting for a true S-Class competitor in the rumored LTS.

fintail

Corolla sells to everyone here: new drivers, boring middle aged people, old people, new residents with no motoring experience (and drive like it). Running costs better be low, as running enjoyment is also low. My mother had one once (falling into the boring old people category), when I recommended a Camry to her after the Corolla got smashed, she thanked me as it was so much more car for not a fortune more money.

I think Corolla has enough cradle to grave clientele to survive no matter what happens.

fintail

I wouldn't buy any of them new, so it doesn't matter to me. If XTS depreciates like DTS, it will be a steal in a couple years.

Too bad something with the panache of the Sixteen was never born.

fintail

Big GM cars are probably among the best CPO buys. I guarantee XTS will be dumped in rental fleets too, further accelerating the decline in residuals.

Got behind a freshly plated Lexus LX today with a Sierra Club sticker on it...yeah that gigantic $90K+ guzzler SUV is one for the environmentalist.

ateixeira

Why hug a tree when you can drive over it?

The tree got revenge, though:



URL for those who cannot see the embedded image:

http://expeditionportal.com/mscott/Users/mattscott/june/vehicles/tree4runner.jpg-

lemko

The Sixteen would've been an awesome flagship for Cadillac and would've propelled them into exotic territory. However, the timing would've been awful. They'd have released this awesome, super-expensive car just in time for another depression. Mercedes didn't have much luck with the Maybach. Didn't M-B pull the plug on it?

andys120

I responded to an invitation from BMWNA to test drive a new Three Series. My reactions are posted in #14605 in the Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans topic but besides the new 3ers a couple of other interesting new Bimmers were present:

-BMW 640i Gran Coupe which looked very tasty in a metallic brown-gray. Nevertheless I can't help but think it's not that much prettier than the new F10 Fivers, themselves very good-lookers>

Gran Coupe


550i


Also on hand was a new M6 convertible in San Marino Blue, the latest of BMW's seemingly endless iterations of the color blue and maybe my favorite of all.

Photos in this month's Roundel appear to depict identical cars, they are all likely part of BMWNA's press fleet. The visual impact of the SMB does not translate in photographs.

fintail

Good point, flagship with a 2007 intro would have been bad timing. Maybach failed much more because of bland style and huge price than economic issues - remember, the 1% haven't had it so good for generations (and some want to aid them even more). Rolls and Bentley have had no problem selling their blingtastic rides. Maybach was just an uglier bigger S-class at 3x the price.

fintail

Oh, hi there



Saw a stereotypical driver in a spindle grille new RX today. Maybe she bought it out of fond memories of grandpa's 61 Fury :shades:

texases

"Nevertheless I can't help but think it's not that much prettier than the new F10 Fivers, themselves very good-lookers"

I agree. Recent CandD review of the Gran Coupe talked about how stunningly beautiful it is. Huh :confuse: